Nope, you just don't put in the wood! Very simple. It is not like it is a whole different thing. Everything is identical, you just don't add the wood.

Forgive my ignorance, just is this true. I thought unmounted was rubber only and then you had to attach it to something called clingmount or something like that.

If they just gave us the same stamps that mounted stamps come as we'd get the foan and sticky stuff we don't need for unmounted. Isn't that right?

Or have I misunderstood?

That should have said "Forgive my ignorance, is this true?"

No need to change a thing. Those of us who already use SU unmounted just rip that rubber right off and attach to EZ mount that we buy elsewhere. If SU wanted to sell EZ mount too, that would be nice, but I am happy with my source for it now. Some don't even bother with the foam at all!

Maybe I am not understanding what you want SU to do. I am under the impression that you want them to offer two options:

rubber stamp sets that come with wood mounts

and

rubber stamp sets that do not come with wood

If this is correct, that is two items, one set that has the wood in it and one set that doesn't. This DOES require two spots on the pick line which DOES require twice as many spots on the pick line.

Didn't we go through this, like, 4 pages ago???

but wouldn't there be a greater cost savings to both SU and customers if the rubber was sold alone as it is intended to be sold for unmounted rather than push out product intended for wood mounting and then have customers alter it?

I guess I'm thinking that might be a quick, down, and dirty way to the end goal (offering unmounted) but it seems like a sort of unsopisticated solution in my opinion.

lol, I was just thinking the same thing. The wood is added way before those stamps ever get to the pick line, and there would have to be two spots. Otherwise, the people in the pick line would have to pick (pun intended) through the wood/nonwood cases to find the right one for that order. No time for that on the pick line.

This pick line... it seems reasonable to me that IF both WM and UM were offered...
Some of the sales of WM would be replaced with sales of UM. Therefore, the UM would replace some of the WM product in the pick line. The amt. of product in the pick line might not even out. There might be a big sales of UM therefore replacing much more of the space eating WM pkgs on the pick line. So, to have to enlarge the plant, sales would have to increase substantially.
~~ just a thought... of course all our speculations are simple theory...

Such a heated discussion! Frankly, I think that space on the pick line is only a part of it.

You have to realize the business model that SU! operates under is not retail. This is party plan marketing. Obviously, if it were cost-effective to offer both products through this model, SU! would be offering them right now.

As a demonstrator who does workshops, I can tell you that new stampers would probably be horribly confused by the choice. And SU! does cater to new stampers through the party plan business model. How many of you were totally new to stamping when you started buying SU!? My guess is a large number. More experienced stampers sometimes, because of the lower cost involved, choose to go unmounted. I don't have any customers who have done this though, so I don't think it is as widespread as you are seeing here. I've got customers who've bought the polymer/acrylic stamps through CTMH and most of them tell me they don't like having to mount and unmount them. They bought them, though, to support a friend who was having a workshop or because they liked the image. I've got some...I don't use them too often because I don't like mounting and unmounting stamps.

My guess, then, is that a great deal of the reason why SU! does not offer both options is that their business model is predicated on the home party and the new stamper. People who buy unmounted are not usually people who go to a lot of home parties. They buy their stamps online or through the mail. How can I sell to these people if I can't sell online? Obviously this does not work for SU!...they would have to change their business model in a lot of ways, not just their pick line. They would have to allow demonstrators to sell online in order to make the offering of unmounted feasible. Shelli has repeatedly said that they are dedicated to the home party business model. SU! is very succesful BECAUSE they concentrate their energies in one direction. Trying to be all things to all people usually results in not enough business from anyone to keep solvent.

BTW, Shelli has never said that SU! would never go to polymer stamps. She HAS said that they have investigated the option and they do not think the technology is good enough to produce the kind of images that SU! has become known for. They are not satisfied with the quality. I'll take quality over popularity any day. ;) Obviously, if the quality ever approaches deeply etched rubber, then things may change.

I've been stamping for 11 years...I've always been aware of the UM option, but I really prefer wood mounted. I think it's nice that there are companies for both. But one thing I have noticed is that companies who offer both usually end up going with one or the other after a year or two. It just is not cost-effective to offer both. Companies that keep trying to offer both usually go under. Stamp companies go under all the time. When I started stamping there were a ton of different companies that aren't even around today. This is a difficult business to be successful in. You have to concentrate on a niche in order to be successful. SU! does this by offering wood mounted stamps through the home party business model.

There is another possible reason that SU! does not want to go to unmounted. I read this recently online dealing with the resale of stamps on online auction sites:

http://reviews.ebay.com/Ethical-Re-S...:-1:LISTINGS:1

This may be just one of the considerations of offering unmounted stamps is the possibility that the resale of unmounted images results in the loss of intelluctual property rights. For a company that is concerned with copyright issues, as is ANY rubberstamp company that produces it's own images (I'm not talking about companies that use public domain imagery), it is possible that the loss of product identity in the resale market is a large concern.

The pick line at SU is a series of shelves with an lcd light marking "spots" for products. There are only a certain number of lcd lights or spots on the pick line. The amount of space an item takes up is not relevant here because there are only so many lcd "spots" for items.
When an order is placed, a bar code is placed on the box. Then when the picker scans the barcode on the box, the lcd lights on the shelves (pick line) light up to show the pickers which items need to go into that box and then the items are picked and placed in the box.

Each item requires an lcd light so that it can be picked and put into your box.

SU can pick up to 10,000 orders per day with this system and has done so during SAB so the thought of just dumping the wood out if someone wants a set without it is not really an option with the current system.

Thank you, Betsy for showing me another world! :-D Wow, glass mounts, how cool!! I can't imagine the fun!! (little mirrors.. how funny!!) The conventions sound sooo exciting. I'd just love to attend one someday!! All the posts from SCSer's from the last CHA were so much fun. JulieHRR and others posted great pictures and info. I don't know how they kept it all straight with all the excitement!

I do have some clear stamps, but d'ruther have my rubbah. The image is what it comes down to, I guess.

We UM gals are flexible*, but yes, a more sensible way to offer it would be bare rubber. But, I think SU would want to maintain their quality image and offer the rubber with the cling mount on the rubber as one option and the traditonal wood mount as we get now as the other option. Some vendors do offer the cling mounted option as well, for a slightly higher cost than the bare rubber, but still considerably less than with the wood mount. I don't know how TAC does it - Does the rubber come separate from the cling mount, or is the cling mount already attached?
* heehee, I just realized that was kinda punny, we're 'flexible', cause we're not attached to the hard block of wood. heehee.

~ Kathy

[quote=ikimom]We UM gals are flexible*, but yes, a more sensible way to offer it would be bare rubber. But, I think SU would want to maintain their quality image and offer the rubber with the cling mount on the rubber as one option and the traditonal wood mount as we get now as the other option. Some vendors do offer the cling mounted option as well, for a slightly higher cost than the bare rubber, but still considerably less than with the wood mount. I don't know how TAC does it - Does the rubber come separate from the cling mount, or is the cling mount already attached?


TAC stamps come on a full sheet of rubber and a full sheet of Creative Cling (ez-mount foam) That is already included in the price of the stamp set.
and they come in a Plastic clam shell box much like the SU stamps come in.

So you have the opition of storing your unmounted stamps in those clam shell boxes or using another method which you are comfortable with.

I use Old style CD cases.. Only because I have a limited amount of space in my stamp room.

All you have to do with your TAC stamps is place the full sheet of rubber on the full sheet of foam and then cut out the stamps.
Much like this:
http://theangelcompany.net/assembly.html



When we sold wood mounted stamps long time ago.
You would get the wood, a label, sticky foam and Rubber stamp set. in a plastic clam shell box.

Yep ...:mrgreen:

It's all good though ... lots of good dialogue and fun info (GLASS blocks??? Who knew??) ha ha ...

Do do dee do
Mah na mah na.

Do do dee do ... your turn ...

... mah na mah na

You're right Jan, it may not be cost-effective now, but that can change. Some of us see that as a possibility.
I have to disagree, there are some longtime SU customers who attend homeparties/workshops, I know a few in my area. I read posts from lots of people here who buy their SU stuff from their demo and also buy UM online or in stores (look at all the Bella fans, woohoo, some of them are demos, too). I don't think SU would have to sell UM online to make it feasible, they would get it just like they do with the wood mounts. I wouldn't want them to sell any online, because that hurts the whole demo model. I agree with the whole home party strategy as it includes teaching how to use all the supplies. But once someone has been into it for awhile and has learned from their SU demo, then they often look at lots of options, not just SU. Homeparties are not just for the newbies. My group has been together for five years and still meets about 8-10 times per year. By selling UM, SU retains experienced stampers that are branching out and spending their often limited hobby money elsewhere. What's wrong with making more people happy? I'm not suggesting they get into the die cut machine business. SU's market is based on stamps. I and others here really prefer SU images. We would just like to be able to afford more of them with an UM option, that's all.

Interesting point, thanks for the link. People sell lots of other used stuff on ebay and don't always mention the name brand, but they do if the name brand increases the value. Don't think there are many people who sell their SU stamps on ebay without labeling them as such, ohhh, I've never looked, I could get some really good bargains that way. Savvy stamp buyers and sellers know what they are getting. I don't think there are many newbie stampers that buy on ebay, they probably start buying there once they get to know their favorite companies and look for bargains like they would at a garage sale. The idea of losing "intellectual property", well, once someone sells their product, the buyer is free to turn around and sell that product (not the image) once they no longer have a use for it. Say I buy a book (intellectual property, copyrighted). When I finish reading it, I can sell it. I don't put the publisher's name in my ad and maybe not the author either. Say I just put an ad saying "Harry Potter Sourcerer's Stone" for sale. It's okay, however, it would be illegal for me to duplicate it and sell the duplicates without permission of the publisher. I just don't see it as a big issue in the stamp world, but I may be naive on that. Someone here may open my eyes to a whole rubber smugglin', image duplicatin' black market I don't know about. (Have you noticed how some companies stamps and sets look verrrrrry similar to other companies?)

Hmm, but the "intellectual property" also makes me wonder about the image swaps here on SCS. I've enjoyed some of that myself with friends. Is that illegal? I think SU policy is that we can use the images for personal enjoyment and also sell things we make using the images in non-permanent locations. The people who buy stuff I've made are not stampers and wouldn't be interested in who holds the intellectual copyright on the image anyway. SU is wise enough to know that selling cards at craft fairs helps many people get money to buy more supplies from them.

I think this is a great conversation, learning lots of stuff. Thanks everyone!

~ Kathy

We've heard from a SU worker very familiar with the facilities who has worked there for longer than an hour during convention time. So, if she says she thinks it is easily feasible, then it answers many speculative opinions. Wow, great to have a real first hand viewpoint. Thanks!

~ Kathy

Ok, gotta run, goin' to ladies night stampin' free for all! Woohoo! Phenomanal! ;)

~ Kathy

Ok, hahaha.
Hey, there you go...
If ya' love wood mounts and ya' know it, write a letter.
If ya' love unmounted and ya' know it, write a letter.
If you're happy with your stampin' and ya' really wanna show it.....
If you're happy with your stampin' share it in the gallery....
Come on Shanni, sing with me!

~ Kathy

Excellent points! Thanks for a very good explanation! It totally all makes sense.

I think Jan is talking about people that go to home "parties" - introductory things - not workshops.

I've been having an informal workshop with just a couple friends for a couple years and before that we went to another demo's monthly workshops. But the home party back in 98 is when we got introduced to it.

I'm thinking SU! is more the hook for stampers, and a lot of people are happy at that level - I think of it as the easiest stamping.

I'm one of those people that does lousy at improvisation. I had a cheap garlic press and never used it because I couldn't make it work right Then I got a good one (P Chef, as a matter of fact) and use it all the time. For ME, I need the good tool, the easy out. It's more klutziness than laziness, truly. But I appreciate having one company that has it all ready for me.

In fact, I see SU! offering more kits all the time. Well, maybe not MORE but different ones continuously. This seems definitely aimed at the beginning stamper. They have just enough to hold veterans, and they must KNOW that veterans are out there going to other conventions and discovering new things.

So that's why I think Jan's points are so valid. It's not a matter of space or cost to them - it's a matter of having found a niche and being very good in that niche. They know darn well that the really artistic stampers are out there trying cutting edge stuff, new techniques, etc.

Two catalogs will help them stay a little more current, but I really think maybe we just have to re-think what kind of a company they are. As Jan said, nobody can be all things to all people. :)

Have fun, girl!!!! I've finally got a few hours alone, Camporee for DH and DS and Senior Ball for DD, she just left. She looked beautiful......