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-   -   Mounted vs. Unmounted Offshoot Poll (https://www.splitcoaststampers.com/forums/general-stamping-talk-17/mounted-vs-unmounted-offshoot-poll-249994/)

housefan 05-17-2007 03:37 PM

Mounted vs. Unmounted Offshoot Poll
 
Would you be OK with SU offering an OPTION of mounted and unmounted or would you not want them to offer the OPTION?

deleoncosm 05-17-2007 03:39 PM

hehe I don't know who this comment was for but I hope it's ok I'm responding I am new to split and trying to figure out the whole thread thing...I totally NEED SU to offer this option...I kinda have a hard time letting go of things and my su sets are no exception so storage is a huge problem on top of we are a military family...hopefuly they will at least consider offering the sets with no wood and that could save on S&H

cobrielle 05-17-2007 03:39 PM

I'm a demo and I'd be fine with them offering the option.

Skittl1321 05-17-2007 03:41 PM

If it didn't affect the price of wood mounted stamps- why would wood mounted fans be unhappy?

As an unmounted fan- I'd be happy with an unmounted option, but I would expect the price to be a bit less expensive. Maybe 20-30%?

Jillgunter 05-17-2007 03:48 PM

I think it would be nice to have the option, I guess I could buy more stamps if they were cheaper unmounted:)

StampingV 05-17-2007 03:54 PM

I'm a demo and I would be happy for the option, also.

V

Jeanne S 05-17-2007 03:57 PM

No problems with that option....

housefan 05-17-2007 03:58 PM

Could those who are unhappy with the idea of them offering the option tell us why? To me it is kind of like an ice cream store that only offers vanilla. Then they add chocolate. Why would that bother the vanilla fans? Just verrrry curious about this.

Carebear530 05-17-2007 04:11 PM

Wouldn't bother me if they went unmounted but I would probably still buy mounted. I think the option would be great for everyone. I personally love the feel of the wood mounted for some reason, but I see the draw for unmounted as well.

ikimom 05-17-2007 04:50 PM

Housefan, thanks for wording your poll better than mine. I realize now that my choice of words upset some people, but I'm glad they said so because I learn from my mistakes and not ashamed to say I made an error.

~ Kathy

housefan 05-17-2007 04:55 PM

Kathy, as much as anything I am just sooooo curious as to why anyone would begrudge the option. I think your post was fine!

jtax 05-17-2007 04:57 PM

I think I would still get the wood, but I certainly have no problem with SU! offering an option.

belindaking 05-17-2007 05:06 PM

I "begrudge" the option because I think it would affect the cost and/or selection of stamps... there simply is only so much room on the pick line (I've been there, and it *is* full) and to offer all the stamps as mounted or unmounted would cost space on the pickline. If the option of unmounted were offered, it would in effect double the amount of space needed for stamps on the pick line. There are two ways this could be handled: 1) offer half as many stamp sets to make space for the unmounted option, or 2) expand the distribution center to make more room for all the stamps.

The smaller amount of storage needed at home (or in a small business) for unmounted stamps just does not apply on a large pick line such as SU's. The same amount of space is needed no matter how large or small an item.

Because offering an unmounted option would *at this time* either increase the cost of SU's product or decrease the selection, I chose that I would be unhappy if SU offered unmounted stamps. If at some time in the future these barriers could be overcome without sacrificing value or diversity in stamps, I would be happy to see that choice made available.

kiraj 05-17-2007 05:08 PM

I would like the option, but you have to know that it would add to the cost of the product in the long run. It would change the production lines, take different types of packaging, and change how the orders have to placed into boxes. All of which cost money.

Erin K 05-17-2007 05:08 PM

someone mentioned that there might less options of they had both. I mean less designs because their "pick line" (new term to me and I love it) would be doubled. So that's a concern, but if they could do it with the same amount of options then I would think there cold be no complaint. Well someone will surely have one, but not one I can see.

Me, I voted for unmounted. I just want the most rubber at the lowest price. They are cute though I'll buy them anyhow, but as some people said, I have X amount to spend and that's it.

kiraj 05-17-2007 05:08 PM

Wow, we were typing at the same time! LOL!

Erin K 05-17-2007 05:15 PM

Sorry Belinda, it took me a while to type my answer and you put yours better in the mean time! :)

Erin K 05-17-2007 05:16 PM

OH and sorry Kiraj too, man I stink at this!

housefan 05-17-2007 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belindaking
I "begrudge" the option because I think it would affect the cost and/or selection of stamps... there simply is only so much room on the pick line (I've been there, and it *is* full) and to offer all the stamps as mounted or unmounted would cost space on the pickline. If the option of unmounted were offered, it would in effect double the amount of space needed for stamps on the pick line. There are two ways this could be handled: 1) offer half as many stamp sets to make space for the unmounted option, or 2) expand the distribution center to make more room for all the stamps.

The smaller amount of storage needed at home (or in a small business) for unmounted stamps just does not apply on a large pick line such as SU's. The same amount of space is needed no matter how large or small an item.

Because offering an unmounted option would *at this time* either increase the cost of SU's product or decrease the selection, I chose that I would be unhappy if SU offered unmounted stamps. If at some time in the future these barriers could be overcome without sacrificing value or diversity in stamps, I would be happy to see that choice made available.

I am really confused. Same rubber, same designs, they just don't put wood in the box.

kiraj 05-17-2007 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
I am really confused. Same rubber, same designs, they just don't put wood in the box.

Which would require a change in their manufacturing lines, because SU makes all their own stamps. There would have to be a process for getting the stamps w/o blocks from the machine to the picking lines, and there isn't currently one. Also, the picking lines are mostly mechanized, meaning machines place orders in the boxes not people. So there would have to be room for double the amount of stamps on the picking line. And I'm sure people wouldn't want to get giant boxes if they were buying unmounted, so that system would have to change too.

belindaking 05-17-2007 06:11 PM

The rubber, wood, and sticker sheet aren't put into the plastic case at the distribution center, that's done at the manufacturing facility, which is several (8-10?) hours away. The sets are then boxed up and shipped to the distribution center. Once at the distribution center, the stamp sets are put in the row of the pick line that they belong in. The pick line worker grabs the stamp set (which was loaded into the appropriate place) when its light comes on signifying that it is to be shipped to you.

To have both the mounted and unmounted options, first they would have to come up with a packaging for the unmounted sets, and those would have to be packaged seperately from the mounted sets at the manufacturing facility to be shipped to the distribution center. Then you have two places on the pick line-- one for the mounted set of stamps, and one for the unmounted set. Yes, the spot at the pick line would have to be filled less often for the same number of stamp sets sold. But you'd still need two spots on the pick line for one design of stamps.

Kira, machines don't pick the orders-- people still do that. The process is more automated, so while the workers used to physically look at the packing slip and check which of the items need to go into the box, then put those items in the box... now when the box gets into that area, the worker scans the box (that's what the bar codes on the outside of your SU box are for), it pulls up your specific order in the computer, and lights come up in that person's zone at the items that go in that box, along with a number indicating how many of that item go in your box. :) Plus the system has been upgraded recently for smaller orders with the capability to pick 6 orders to a divided box, then have those orders divided into smaller boxes (that are too small for the conveyer belts) or padded envelopes.

I got to work the pick line for a few minutes at convention last year, and BOY do I have a lot more respect for those workers! They're amazing!

kiraj 05-17-2007 06:15 PM

Thanks for clarifying that point Belinda!

housefan 05-17-2007 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belindaking
The rubber, wood, and sticker sheet aren't put into the plastic case at the distribution center, that's done at the manufacturing facility, which is several (8-10?) hours away. The sets are then boxed up and shipped to the distribution center. Once at the distribution center, the stamp sets are put in the row of the pick line that they belong in. The pick line worker grabs the stamp set (which was loaded into the appropriate place) when its light comes on signifying that it is to be shipped to you.

To have both the mounted and unmounted options, first they would have to come up with a packaging for the unmounted sets, and those would have to be packaged seperately from the mounted sets at the manufacturing facility to be shipped to the distribution center. Then you have two places on the pick line-- one for the mounted set of stamps, and one for the unmounted set. Yes, the spot at the pick line would have to be filled less often for the same number of stamp sets sold. But you'd still need two spots on the pick line for one design of stamps.

Kira, machines don't pick the orders-- people still do that. The process is more automated, so while the workers used to physically look at the packing slip and check which of the items need to go into the box, then put those items in the box... now when the box gets into that area, the worker scans the box (that's what the bar codes on the outside of your SU box are for), it pulls up your specific order in the computer, and lights come up in that person's zone at the items that go in that box, along with a number indicating how many of that item go in your box. :) Plus the system has been upgraded recently for smaller orders with the capability to pick 6 orders to a divided box, then have those orders divided into smaller boxes (that are too small for the conveyer belts) or padded envelopes.

I got to work the pick line for a few minutes at convention last year, and BOY do I have a lot more respect for those workers! They're amazing!

All I know is that there are plenty of companies out there that accomodate both options. What do they have that SU could not duplicate?

kiraj 05-17-2007 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
All I know is that there are plenty of companies out there that accomodate both options. What do they have that SU could not duplicate?


SU could duplicate it, just for a higher product cost. And from what I've read about your opinions on SU prices, thats not a solution you would be willing to accept either.

plkelley 05-17-2007 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
All I know is that there are plenty of companies out there that accomodate both options. What do they have that SU could not duplicate?

The process that SU utilizes has just been explained in detail to you. SU may be contemplating offering this option; but they are probably the one of the largest companies out there and it takes lots of time and resources to work out the details.

My word, why don't you just purchase from other companies and quit beating this poor old dead horse?

housefan 05-17-2007 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiraj
SU could duplicate it, just for a higher product cost. And from what I've read about your opinions on SU prices, thats not a solution you would be willing to accept either.

Then why can other companies do it for so much less? I just bought the most lovely set of 6 unmounted rather large stamps for $11.95. The same stamps mounted were $16.95.

I am just so curious as to why SU and the SU demos have dug their heels in to the point of being offended when anyone even wants to discuss this?

belindaking 05-17-2007 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
All I know is that there are plenty of companies out there that accomodate both options. What do they have that SU could not duplicate?

Less product.

RedInLove 05-17-2007 06:32 PM

I don't care if they offer unmounted, as long as they keep the mounted version too. I'm not interested in trying unmounted. Plus, SU would appeal to everyone by offering both.

kiraj 05-17-2007 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
Then why can other companies do it for so much less? I just bought the most lovely set of 6 unmounted rather large stamps for $11.95. The same stamps mounted were $16.95.

I am just so curious as to why SU and the SU demos have dug their heels in to the point of being offended when anyone even wants to discuss this?


I haven't seen anyone offended. :confused:

I am just so curious as to why you get so offended at the very thought of SU or the idea that some people do like their products and business methods. If you don't like the product, find, no one forces you to buy it. There's no point in continually berating it though.

belindaking 05-17-2007 06:36 PM

I'm not offended at all... you asked for an opinion, and I gave my opinion. I backed up my opinion with facts about how SU currently operates. You seem to be offended that my opinion is not the same as yours and you backed up your opinion with what other companies offer.

If and when SU could offer unmounted and mounted sets without raising prices or sacrificing selection, I would be the first to cheer on a new era of stamping as we know it. ;) Since as I see it that time is not yet here, I would be unhappy to see that option because it would either raise prices or sacrifice selection because of the way the manufacturing facility and distribution center are currently set up.

housefan 05-17-2007 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiraj
I haven't seen anyone offended. :confused:

I am just so curious as to why you get so offended at the very thought of SU or the idea that some people do like their products and business methods. If you don't like the product, find, no one forces you to buy it. There's no point in continually berating it though.

It has been referred to in this thread as a dead horse and I have been asked to stop. I guess that is about as offended as one gets.

housefan 05-17-2007 06:40 PM

I am honestly sorry that I posted this poll and dared to ask such a question.

Shanon 05-17-2007 06:41 PM

AMEN!
Quote:

Originally Posted by plkelley
The process that SU utilizes has just been explained in detail to you. SU may be contemplating offering this option; but they are probably the one of the largest companies out there and it takes lots of time and resources to work out the details.

My word, why don't you just purchase from other companies and quit beating this poor old dead horse?


plkelley 05-17-2007 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
It has been referred to in this thread as a dead horse and I have been asked to stop. I guess that is about as offended as one gets.

LOL - I am not offended, just curious as to your motives. If I had the white-hot hatred for SU that you seem to harbor, I would not buy from them.

Shanon 05-17-2007 06:45 PM

Have you ever heard of the term "stirring the pot" ?
Quote:

Originally Posted by housefan
I am honestly sorry that I posted this poll and dared to ask such a question.


housefan 05-17-2007 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plkelley
LOL - I am not offended, just curious as to your motives. If I had the white-hot hatred for SU that you seem to harbor, I would not buy from them.

Goodness. Never knew my curiosity could be exaggerated into white hot hatred! You are good!

Shanon 05-17-2007 06:48 PM

HF.........oh gosh, nevermind. Not worth it. *bowing out now* :rolleyes:

Cynamom 05-17-2007 06:58 PM

I don't like unmounted, but I wouldn't want to keep that option away from others!

Cindy

doxiegal 05-17-2007 07:07 PM

It is too bad that we cannot, as adults, post our reply to the question asked and move on! If you don't like the post, poll, etc., you don't have to reply!

annieworm 05-17-2007 07:10 PM

I'm all for an unmounted option! Every stamper I know is sick of paying for wood they will not be using. SU is quite capable of changing their methods to better serve their customers without passing that cost onto the devoted demos and customers. Companies have to spend money to make money, period.


And, I think the comment about beating a dead horse is out of line. If you don't like what another scs'er is going on about then stop reading their posts. I didn't see housefan "berate" SU at all in this post.

housefan 05-17-2007 07:11 PM

Thank you Sally.

Mahloumel 05-17-2007 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plkelley
My word, why don't you just purchase from other companies and quit beating this poor old dead horse?

I'm not sure I can see how this fits into you being curious about housefan's motives. Whenever I see the 'dead horse' comment on SCS, it comes across to me as belittling, impolite, sarcastic, and dismissive of a person's earnest desire to learn more about other perspectives and engage in rational discourse. Obviously there are a fair number of folks here who are SU fans and also have an interest in unmounted stamps, and would like to discuss the possibility of SU offering unmounteds/wood free stamps. Without threads like these, I never would have learned so many cool details about SU's picking line from belindaking. And, if everyone "stopped beating this dead horse" as you put it, SU would never know that any of their customers would very much like for them to offer wood-free stamps in addition to wooded stamps. Who knows, maybe in ten years they might offer them because of customers talking about it and asking for it!

belindaking 05-17-2007 07:33 PM

OK, I like scenarios, so here's one for this situation.

SU decided to offer both mounted and unmounted. They decide to expand the distribution center (which they did build with the intention of expanding someday, so it's plausible) so that they don't have to cut down on the image selection or accessories.

Now they have two options for a set... let's say that unmounted is $17, and mounted (well, mountable-- you still have to put the stamps together yourself) is $22. This same set is one that was priced at $20 in the catalog before. So it is less expensive for those who like unmounted stamps, but the price has jumped for those who want wood with their rubber. Those who have liked their stamps mounted the whole time, thank you very much, are now the ones paying for those who like unmounted stamps.

In addition, because of the increase in cost for the pick line and the manufacturing facility, ALL the rest of the products (inks, papers, embellishments, etc.) must also have a price increase. Inkpads are now $6.50, card stock is $7, brads are $12, etc. How long would we the consumers bear these higher prices?

And is that fair to those who prefer mounted stamps to bear the cost of offering unmounted stamps?

For the sake of argument, let's say SU only passes on the increased cost of dealing with unmounted stamps to those who purchase unmounted stamps. In that case, the set of unmounted stamps is the same $20 as the set of mounted stamps. SU can't afford to absorb this new cost of doing business, and it's not fair to pass along the cost to everyone. Who is going to purchase the unmounted stamps now?

The two main reasons I hear for unmounted is "cost" and "storage." Well, now you *might* please all the "storage" people, but you've lost the "cost" people altogether because they simply won't do business with a company that so clearly is out to fleece them. I mean, how can they offer UNmounted stamps for the same cost as mounted stamps when they are not even needing to include the wood, larger case, and sticker?

Hmmm.

Until SU is ready to offer both types of stamps without sacrificing cost (as I've shown above) or selection (picture a 100-page catalog), I stand by my vote that I would be unhappy with an option. As soon as they are financially and physically (with the distribution center, manufacturing facility, and packaging) ready to offer both options, I will be happy to support the company I have chosen to represent. :)

Mahloumel 05-17-2007 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belindaking
So it is less expensive for those who like unmounted stamps, but the price has jumped for those who want wood with their rubber. Those who have liked their stamps mounted the whole time, thank you very much, are now the ones paying for those who like unmounted stamps.

The way things are right now, one could say that those who like unmounted stamps are being asked to pay more to maintain the status quo that caters to the preferences of the wood-mounted types. From that perspective, the unmounted folks are subsidising the wood mounted folks' purchases! :)

The way I see it, if/when SU starts losing its market share they will find it more than worth their while to revamp the picking line and offer both UM and WM options. I can't be the only UM stamper who is "voting with her wallet" and spending most of her stamp budget at businesses other than SU, even though I really like a lot of SU's images and would buy them more often if I didn't also have to deal with the wood blocks, mental block of paying for wood blocks, etc.

Very interesting way of putting it, btw!!

housefan 05-17-2007 08:12 PM

Yup! Well said Mahloumel!

denidill 05-17-2007 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanon
Have you ever heard of the term "stirring the pot" ?

She wasn't stirring the pot. She was asking questions and when Belinda replied, she responded with more questions. What's the problem? For some people, threads that are controversial or subject to many opinions seem to get many peoples' panties in a knot.

Free speech and all that, right????????

Stampaholic2004 05-17-2007 08:25 PM

I LOVE SU and have recently started unmounting my sets...If they offered the option of the sets w/o the woods blocks they would not only save money, they would be saving natural resources: trees on the wood blocks, chemicals and by-products for the plastics cases, gas and emissions on the lighter packages they were shipping, etc. Also, not sure if this has ever been mentioned: say the WM prices stayed the same, and UM were 20% less ($16 vs $20). Shipping would be $1.60 for UM, and $2.00 for WM. They would be making a substantial profit on shipping alone! I'm not trying to debate the profitability of SU, my demo is worth her weight in gold. I just hate not having the option of buying UM. If I could get the sames sets for the same price w/o the wood blocks I would, just b/c it would generate less trash for me. I know I can sell the wood blocks and cases, but that involoves time, money, and shipping, yet again. I am a die hard SU fan, I won't stop buying from them for any reason (unless they go clear), but I REALLY wish they offered the option.

belindaking 05-17-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahloumel
The way things are right now, one could say that those who like unmounted stamps are being asked to pay more to maintain the status quo that caters to the preferences of the wood-mounted types. From that perspective, the unmounted folks are subsidising the wood mounted folks' purchases! :)

The way I see it, if/when SU starts losing its market share they will find it more than worth their while to revamp the picking line and offer both UM and WM options. I can't be the only UM stamper who is "voting with her wallet" and spending most of her stamp budget at businesses other than SU, even though I really like a lot of SU's images and would buy them more often if I didn't also have to deal with the wood blocks, mental block of paying for wood blocks, etc.

Very interesting way of putting it, btw!!

However, since the company is currently set up as wood-mounted and will probably not do without the wood (because of that nice little tree farmer in Washington state that they don't want to put out of a job ;) ), there would be a considerable cost in going to unmounted while customers who would always buy unmounted are probably in the minority.

Sounds like we have the makings of another poll here. ;)

geekgirl415 05-17-2007 10:17 PM

oops, i voted wrong!! i meant to say either way is fine w/me, and i would still choose mounted over unmounted, however- i don't see it happening w/SU. At least not any time soon.

Maybe there should have been a choice for EITHER WAY IS A-OK? dunno... d;)

ikimom 05-17-2007 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by belindaking
Because offering an unmounted option would *at this time* either increase the cost of SU's product or decrease the selection, I chose that I would be unhappy if SU offered unmounted stamps. If at some time in the future these barriers could be overcome without sacrificing value or diversity in stamps, I would be happy to see that choice made available.

Belinda, I appreciate your explanations of the pick line and how that affects SU's current decision to offer wood only option. Well said, thank you! We need to see all sides of the debate.

The professional statiscal anylsyts can project at what point economic factors tip the scale in favor of offering unmounted as an option (or horrors, UM only). That is, at what point would the investment needed to change the pick line be less than the loss of market share and decreasing sales. Who knows, maybe in a few years, maybe never. So much in our economy is affected by the cost of gas. Nearly every product you buy. Gas prices up, all costs go up, but when salaries don't rise to meet that difference, then disposable income goes down. The craft industry is part of the disposable income market, not the necessities. Yeah, soooo many of us like to think of our precious stamps as necessities (it's my art therapy!), but more and more people have to cut back on that luxury when there is economic pressure. The stamp world - the pulse of the American economy.

Ok, now my creative side is anxiously and excitedly awaiting what will be in the big new catalog. LOL, can you tell I'm a Gemini? My two sides are in conflict. Now my analytical side is wondering how many ways to serve beans and rice before ds and dh complain. :p

~ Kathy
(Disclaimer: I really don't think the increased costs on paper and ink and other things are unreasonable, they are still good value. It's only the wood cost.)


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