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I've only read through the first page or two of this thread and all I can say is "oh, my!" People, people, people! I am sad to see SU! demos on this side with their complaints. Why not head over to the demo side?
Change is often hard and SU! does not make decisions without many hours of research and consideration. I've been a demo for 11 years and have seen many changes in SU! - if they were that horrible I would have left years ago. I say let the dust settle a little before you get so worked up! I guess I am sad to see mad people over here (specifically SU! demos) complaining about this new product line on the General side. Why not take it amongst demos?
__________________ Kelly God doesn't give us what we can handle. God helps us handle what we've been given.
Just a note on the Avon thing- they don't normally carry scrapbooking. Occasionally you'll see a scrapbook kit show up and then it's gone- but it's definitely not something they carry regularly or consistently. I would assume that's why it hasn't really been a big discussion.
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Originally Posted by My3LittleGirls
I've only read through the first page or two of this thread and all I can say is "oh, my!" People, people, people! I am sad to see SU! demos on this side with their complaints. Why not head over to the demo side?
Change is often hard and SU! does not make decisions without many hours of research and consideration. I've been a demo for 11 years and have seen many changes in SU! - if they were that horrible I would have left years ago. I say let the dust settle a little before you get so worked up! I guess I am sad to see mad people over here (specifically SU! demos) complaining about this new product line on the General side. Why not take it amongst demos?
Well put.
__________________ No more plugs...been mighty busy trying to maintain good health...physically and mentally.
I have never seen any scrapbooking type stuff in the Avon books, I've been a rep for years now and nothing was even attempted since I started. As for the Dual Demo thing, imho, I don't see any reason for one to have to choose. =)
To me If I ever did buy something like this. I would probably use it as a framed pictured on my wall. and somehow color it in..and perhaps enhance it with other stamps that could be used to dress up around the bigger wall art. If that is possible to even stamp on the vinyl.and color it in.
I guess I would have to see what others try to do with it first. But I wouldn't rule it out right away.
Maybe this is something very new to the stamping world and su like any other company out there . When they see something new tries it. I'm sure SU has also seen other ways to use this as we have not yet. And thought that once it's put out there people will try anything. If it doesn't sell then like anything else it will go just as fast as it came.
So don't keep getting your feathers ruffled by new items. There's plenty of other things to buy in the catalog. Think of all the things that you have been wanting to buy but couldn't because you always bought the newer stuff. Well now you can get all those things you've been holding out on.
__________________ WHAT IS A STAMPPIN ADDICT!
It's someone who buys stamps they didn't normally like at first,only to see it in Split Coast Stampers gallery in a different perspective.
I am a Demo for both until July 1st. Did you know that SU's former Ceo, Rich is working for UL? Remeber how upset they were when he left? I find the timing of this very interesting..... There are tons of SU demos leaving for UL on our UL blogs. This seems to be personal. And at UL, it is not just "phrases and letters"... we have 100's of embellishments ranging from 2 inches to 18 inches in size. It is an absolutely beautiful product! I have had a wonderful time with this company. I have made way more money with UL also. With Michaels and Hobby Lobby and Joanns and small scrapbook/stamping stores on every corner, it is getting harder and harder to get people to ORDER something from SU. I am sad to leave SU. But I guess my years and hard work don't matter. I have lost respect for the company. It didn't have to be this way. Some understanding and compassion would have been nice. But the attitude that I have gotten from the company is OH WELL!! So the "little people" who built SU"S business, homes, children's college educations don't matter anymore. Ican't work for a company that I don't respect.
I've only read through the first page or two of this thread and all I can say is "oh, my!" People, people, people! I am sad to see SU! demos on this side with their complaints. Why not head over to the demo side?
Change is often hard and SU! does not make decisions without many hours of research and consideration. I've been a demo for 11 years and have seen many changes in SU! - if they were that horrible I would have left years ago. I say let the dust settle a little before you get so worked up! I guess I am sad to see mad people over here (specifically SU! demos) complaining about this new product line on the General side. Why not take it amongst demos?
Former demo here.
I am sad to see that SU! is still up to their old "BIG BUSINESS" tricks. I, for one, am glad to see this here so that I know that quiting was a good choice.
I am a Demo for both until July 1st. Did you know that SU's former Ceo, Rich is working for UL? Remeber how upset they were when he left? I find the timing of this very interesting..... There are tons of SU demos leaving for UL on our UL blogs. This seems to be personal. And at UL, it is not just "phrases and letters"... we have 100's of embellishments ranging from 2 inches to 18 inches in size. It is an absolutely beautiful product! I have had a wonderful time with this company. I have made way more money with UL also. With Michaels and Hobby Lobby and Joanns and small scrapbook/stamping stores on every corner, it is getting harder and harder to get people to ORDER something from SU. I am sad to leave SU. But I guess my years and hard work don't matter. I have lost respect for the company. It didn't have to be this way. Some understanding and compassion would have been nice. But the attitude that I have gotten from the company is OH WELL!! So the "little people" who built SU"S business, homes, children's college educations don't matter anymore. Ican't work for a company that I don't respect.
I left with the same sour feelings. My DH had to keep reminding me that they are a business and it is just business. They are not the happy family - let's be friends company that scrapbookers want them to be. (I mean you think of people who help you scrapbook your life as friends.) They are in it for the $$ - make no mistakes. Did you know that the biggest income for SU! actually comes from demos themselves (personal orders, supply orders, keeping up with new catty etc.) That is why the constant change and additions to catty's - they want the demos to lay down the $$ for the new stuff on a reg basis.
Beware: If the economy keeps dipping they may ban demos from shopping at Hobby Lobby, Michaels, etc....
I left with the same sour feelings. My DH had to keep reminding me that they are a business and it is just business. They are not the happy family - let's be friends company that scrapbookers want them to be. (I mean you think of people who help you scrapbook your life as friends.) They are in it for the $$ - make no mistakes. Did you know that the biggest income for SU! actually comes from demos themselves (personal orders, supply orders, keeping up with new catty etc.) That is why the constant change and additions to catty's - they want the demos to lay down the $$ for the new stuff on a reg basis.
Beware: If the economy keeps dipping they may ban demos from shopping at Hobby Lobby, Michaels, etc....
Please no flames. I know that to some of you out there it is absolute blasphemy to say anything ill of SU!
I've only read through the first page or two of this thread and all I can say is "oh, my!" People, people, people! I am sad to see SU! demos on this side with their complaints. Why not head over to the demo side?
Change is often hard and SU! does not make decisions without many hours of research and consideration. I've been a demo for 11 years and have seen many changes in SU! - if they were that horrible I would have left years ago. I say let the dust settle a little before you get so worked up! I guess I am sad to see mad people over here (specifically SU! demos) complaining about this new product line on the General side. Why not take it amongst demos?
I totally agree, I am kind of surprised that this thread has has not been moved or closed. I am not a demo so I can't say I know what demos are going thru with this situation, but I don't think it is a very good business practice to complain about the company you work for in a forum that is viewed by its consumers. I understand that you may not agree with the situation, there are many times that I don't agree with things my company does and I may vent or talk about it with co-workers but I don't discuss them with customers.
I for one love working for SU, and I very much feel like they live by their principle and the SU statement of the heart. Every single conversation I've ever had with the home office has been unbelievably pleasant. I think that they have a nice balance between keeping their business strong and taking care of their demos. And, I've never felt that they made a decision just so that I as a demo would HAVE to give them more money. How silly.
There are tons of SU demos leaving for UL on our UL blogs.
I have searched and haven't found any blogs that talk about leaving SU!
I had to make a similar decision many years ago- it was easy for me and i have been happy with Stampin' Up! ever since. Business decisions are tough to make but any business that wants to stay on top needs to stay competitive and carry products that people want. I continually have to assess my business and make sure I am giving my customers what they want and continually bringing in new customers- I want to stay profitable, just like SU! wants to stay profitable.
I have tried the new product and am happy to report - I love it! I can't wait to see where SU! takes this- the press release on the website talks about more colors, more images, etc. SU! images are the best around and what a great way to increase their value!
Here are some samples of the product used in my home:
Love the vinyl on your walls, Diane- especially to see that it works on the textured surface!
Of course Stampin' Up! makes decisions to make money. They're a business. No surprise here. If I made decisions with a focus on being profitable instead of just buying every darn thing I think is cute, I might make some myself! :-)
Just a thought (and this is nothing personal- just my thoughts)- as far as the post concering SU!'s decision being "personal" and somehow vindictive towards Rich and UL... I find that very unlikely. And I think maybe UL is doing a better job with PR right now, but that's only one side of the story. They are definitely using the situation to their advantage, which is smart, but doesn't necessarily mean that SU is somehow evil and out to "get" UL. KWIM? I am not saying this very clearly... I guess I just mean that there are 2 sides to every story.
There are textured walls and then there are textured walls. I have a friend who's textured walls are more of a rough sandpaper finish - not the somewhat smooth textured I've see these and other vinyl wall decor stuff on. My question is just how real texture can you have before any of these products won't work? I doubt that my friend's walls would work with SU's or any other company's but I'd like to see some photos of people who have a rough texture not the smooth texture I've seen so far.
There are textured walls and then there are textured walls. I have a friend who's textured walls are more of a rough sandpaper finish - not the somewhat smooth textured I've see these and other vinyl wall decor stuff on. My question is just how real texture can you have before any of these products won't work? I doubt that my friend's walls would work with SU's or any other company's but I'd like to see some photos of people who have a rough texture not the smooth texture I've seen so far.
I think that's a good question. My walls are more of the "orange peel" texture like in the photo- but I've seen some of the rough pokey texture (ouchie if you rub against it!), mostly in older houses. Anyone tried it yet?
You are so right! I liked the letter that UL wrote on their website to their demonstrators too. I think I actually might be making a move. Class and respect from UL is more important to me than being told 'oh well' and actually feeling no compassion on the SU side. If SU wanted to be the business that they are acting like right now, they should not have spent years making everyone feel like they are an emotional part of this wonderful business. I feel totally taken for here.
It's so funny that some of the demos who are saying "Don't take it personally" and "Calm down", are getting just as worked up as everyone else. It may not be what some people consider bashing, but as I've read every page of comments I've definately sensed some hostility.
As a customer I am going to make my own assumptions about the new product regardless if all the demo's are talking about it or not. I'm kind of glad to see the interaction on this side of the forum b/c I am slightly shocked at they way you are all treating eachother. I guess I just assumed that b/c you are in the same business together you would band together and show a little support.
For all I've read, the demo's who have expressed concern about having to choose between two business have been treated like traitors. It's a genuine concern. I can understand that other demos, who are sticking with SU, need to maintain a good rapport with their customers and their comapny, but all this is making me understand why not everyone sees SU as a "family" company.
This discussion is bound to leak into the customer side, wether here or in person. Why not show us that you support eachother but still support your company w/o making things so heated? I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right. I just think people are waaay too defensive right now.
I'm sure once some time passes everyone will get things figured out and feel a lot better. It would just be nice to see a little more support, in ALL directions.
IMHO
__________________ Wendy Lord great wonders workest Thou, to Thy sway all creatures bow.
Write Thou deeply on my heart, who I am and who Thou art. Scrappractical - The Blog
Oh, please. They aren't the KGB, for pete's sake. Do you think they'll maybe tell me I can't buy groceries for my kids, too????
What is the point of this very personal post directed at me?
Are you looking for an argument?
If you would like to discuss topic, feel free, however - do not direct your snide comments at me or anyone else on a personal level. (per forum guidelines)
Just rude!
And, to answer your question...
Perhaps yes, if the your children start stamping w/ their groceries!
Furthermore, I see that you have not even commented on the OP...What?
Last edited by thestampingstamper; 06-24-2008 at 07:01 PM..
Did you know that the biggest income for SU! actually comes from demos themselves (personal orders, supply orders, keeping up with new catty etc.) That is why the constant change and additions to catty's - they want the demos to lay down the $$ for the new stuff on a reg basis.
Actually, 100% of SU's income comes from demos, since SU does not sell merchandise to the general public. In fact, 100% of the income of most other direct sale companies comes from their demos too. That's how the direct sales business model works. The company sells the products to the demos and the demos sell the products to the customers or keep them for themselves. If there's something sinister in that, then every direct sales company is equally guilty.
As for changing merchandise frequently, that's just a standard marketing practice. It's done in every store in America and it's done by every party plan business in America. Singling SU or any other company out on the basis that they change their product mix regularly is like singling an Olympian out for being athletic.
I am just a hobby SU demo and to be honest, have no stake in this conversation one way or the other so I wont say anything (hopefully) to agrevate this thread....just wanted to say that I do hate that the demos have to choose between these obviously 2 great companies. I know that decision must be very hard and I do wish that you all would have a little bit more time to actually decide...like at least get to see another phase or two to see if the Su products meet your and your customers needs.
I would like to say that I was with another direct sales company, tupperware, for 4 years until I decided I was getting overwhelmed with it. I saw alot of changes at the company in that time, including watching our Distributorships being dismantled and each and every one of those group of wonderful people (generally this was a wife and husband team) have to start all over again. I mean, they lost their big incomes, they had to start to rebuild their own direct downlines by recruiting and making their own sales. It was truly crazy! I couldnt believe they were doing that to them...I guess it was to cut costs and make TW more profitable. I think in these hard economic times, many direct sales and home based businesses are having to do that. Of course, this generally falls squarely on the shoulders of their sales people...US.
In this climate of economic turmoil and questionable profitability, unfortunately, many companies are having to make decisions that are not going to be popular. I do know that most (if not all) direct sales companies do have "no compete" clauses in the agreement we all signed. In the end, it is their right to do what they wish in running their business. I also know many of you checked before signing up with UCL so you are feeling especially screwed in this deal and I dont blame you at all. I realize you are going to have to chose, and its not going to be an easy choice, but its a decision you must make, it sounds like. I wish you all all the best in whatever you decide. I dont envy your decision in chosing 1 over the other.
I think you all must sit down with paper and pen and start a pro/con column for each company and think of the compensation plans of both companies. I know that whatever you decide, you will always have your SU family or UCL family to show you support...and maybe team up with a buddy who is with the other company you are not chosing and you can give each other the discounts on your respective products.
And Diane...I couldnt agree more. I have been in 4 different HBB over the years and have ALWAYS been my best customer!! LOL I mean, the thing generally seems to be that we sell what we love, therefore we BUY what we love too! I also know that SU or TW or PC or CM or any of the others are not twisting our arms to buy buy buy, that is just what many of us end up doing, then want to blame the company for offering such great deals, having such great stuff, etc. I learned that it is ME that has to just say NO altho since I am fairly new to stamping and new to SU its hard to say no...LOL
Actually, 100% of SU's income comes from demos, since SU does not sell merchandise to the general public. In fact, 100% of the income of most other direct sale companies comes from their demos too. That's how the direct sales business model works. The company sells the products to the demos and the demos sell the products to the customers or keep them for themselves. If there's something sinister in that, then every direct sales company is equally guilty.
As for changing merchandise frequently, that's just a standard marketing practice. It's done in every store in America and it's done by every party plan business in America. Singling SU or any other company out on the basis that they change their product mix regularly is like singling an Olympian out for being athletic.
Yes, SU! is a business. I don't call anyone at SU! if I'm sick and don't feel good, they aren't my mummy. If relationships get built, it's at the street level!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, NHL "It was fun." - Kirk, Star Trek: Generations
Actually, 100% of SU's income comes from demos, since SU does not sell merchandise to the general public. In fact, 100% of the income of most other direct sale companies comes from their demos too. That's how the direct sales business model works. The company sells the products to the demos and the demos sell the products to the customers or keep them for themselves. If there's something sinister in that, then every direct sales company is equally guilty.
As for changing merchandise frequently, that's just a standard marketing practice. It's done in every store in America and it's done by every party plan business in America. Singling SU or any other company out on the basis that they change their product mix regularly is like singling an Olympian out for being athletic.
You are 100% right.
I guess the problem arises when people expect something more than a purely business relationship, which I think happens a lot with SU! demos and customers.
What I meant bu changing merchandise was more than just the retiring of stamp sets. I am talking about the in colors and a few years back when they canceled a load of colors and added a a bunch. If you ask me, it is about keeping the demos buying new stuff constantly (of course, so they can in turn around and sell it to their customers.)
There is nothing wrong with that. Heck, it is a business and a very lucrative one at that. But, the problem here is that SU! (as mentioned in previous posts) is that SU! does not want any competition and does everything in their power to eliminate that. Why not let their product stand for itself? Why do they have to limit their "direct seller" to only selling their product? If their product is so superior and wonderful they should not fear the competition - they should embrace it and make a better product.
It is not right to tell a demo that they have to choose one company over another. It is also not right to tell a customer or demo what they can and can not do with the items that they make with SU! product. (But, I digress, that is a whole other thread.)
We've been monitoring the discussion, the biting between members and the re-visioning of the thread (through use of the edit button) here. Productive discussion has ceased, and we are closing the thread. If you have strong feelings one way or the other, I would encourage you to contact Stampin' Up! directly.
Oh My...
