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I'm still as excited about the new catalog. I love it for ideas and so I can know what's new in SU and I like to imagine what some of the work I'm going to see with the stamps are.
But I do find myself actually BUYING less. But not for your reasons (although they are totally valid of course). I find I'm liking clear more and more. It suprised me a bunch, but I like them. Also I'm having huge diminishing returns on stamps. I feel like I've honed my collection to my FAVORITE things. It takes more than a cute stamp now to get me excited. It has to be something that really grabs me. It doesn't happen as much anymore.
I agree with you Erin. I still love looking at the new catalog, but I don't buy as much now either. I think it's because I have my favorites and also because I have gotten my stamp collection to the point that I only need to "fill in" or add something that just makes me go "WOW!"
I will say that the negativity about this new catalog has been much more noticeable than I remember it being in the past. I would think that these demos would be happy that so many folks want a sneak peek as this just fuels the excitement--IMHO. But, everyone has a different take on an issue and these folks just don't see it as a positive. Me, I try to look at the positive as it makes for a healthier, happier life. At least that works for me!
__________________ Suzanne "With God, all things are possible." 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
I guess it must be me but I feel the opposite!! I sort of miss the days when everyone was so enthusiastic over everything SU!! Don't get me wrong, I dont want everyone to be a "clique", but for me personally I feel a bit overwhelmed when I see all these new companies popping up everywhere I just feel like I cant keep up! LOL.. (believe me, nothing wrong with variety I just have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time so I need to really focus!! lol..)
One thing I miss about being a demo (I only used to buy for myself) is that I built quite a nice collection of tools and embellishments that are great quality - I know that everything I bought 6 years ago, I still use today so I can't complain about money well-spent.
Again, it goes along the same lines that I am super-picky about the things I use - I have my favorite handful of companies/products that I use religiously, and I am extremely happy sticking to them, but I will always like SU!'s "traditional" over-all goodness (if that makes sense) and I am very excited about seeing all the new stuff, there's always something I have to have!
I guess thats the nice thing about having choices!! :mrgreen:
I seem to be buying less and less stamp sets from SU. I have probably bought 3 sets in the last 2 years. Each time a new catalog comes out i am really excited to sit down and look thru it, but end up disappointed when i don't really find any sets i like. maybe i have too many sets already. i have enough FLORALS i don't want any little kiddie sets, and i don't want any more trees. i keep looking for a christmas set i really like (haven't found that yet) so all i really look for in SU sets is alphabets( i make alot of name frames for gifts). Its not that i buy stamps from other companies either. ( i don't buy stamps from ANY other company)
BUT, I really like SU papers, whether it is the designer papers or the double sided paper, i ALWAYS buy their paper. and their cardstock. and their ink.
I buy SU punches and accessories too.
I use to be a demonstrator, but if I couldn't get excited about the stamp sets, and i didn't agree with all their "rules".....i figured that i should not be a demonstrator anymore.
if you are "badmouthing" the company you represent.....maybe its time to retire as a demonstrator.
In my opinion I think SU is keeping the main core stuff in their Idea Book & Catalog and using the Mini's (now they are bigger) to showcase new and exciting stuff through out the year.
For example - new fun tools, embellishments, and stamp sets (depending on what time of year the mini is coming out - holiday stamp sets). Now whether or not you think the minis are are exciting and find things you like that is each persons opinion.
I feel that each company offers what they off and they can't make everyone happy. That is the great thing about all the choices we have now with all the stamp companies popping up every where!
We all love stamping and use our stamps and accessories in different ways - we are bound to find a company that has something we like to use! I love all the variety out there.
I am a SU demo but don't turn a blinds eye to all the other stamp companies. If I see something I like and can use it - I will get it.
We have a stamp store in my community; she's got single wood mounts for $16! I'd rather pay $25 and get a set of 4.
I only buy SU sets when I like every item in the set. If there is even one stamp in it I won't use, I won't buy it.
Quality wise I'm sure many companies are good. I've looked at many of the companies people rave about on here, though, and none have images I like as much as Stampin' Up. Many are images I just plain don't like even w/o the comparison.
I currently purchase all of my cardstock from SU!, but what I have heard about the price increase will change that. It is just way to much more a sheet. I will have to try other companies...
We have a stamp store in my community; she's got single wood mounts for $16! I'd rather pay $25 and get a set of 4.
I only buy SU sets when I like every item in the set. If there is even one stamp in it I won't use, I won't buy it.
Quality wise I'm sure many companies are good. I've looked at many of the companies people rave about on here, though, and none have images I like as much as Stampin' Up. Many are images I just plain don't like even w/o the comparison.
I totally agree! I only buy sets where I like 98% of the set. I may buy a set if there is one stamp I do not like. I think SU's prices are affordable. I'm also going to continue to use their paper. I think the price is still fair and it's such good quality. The matching is done for me, and that makes the price worth it for me. It does sound like PTI has some good paper prices, but I just don't like to shop online a lot. I spend enough $$$$ on stamping, clothes, make-up etc. already!
__________________ All I want is the chance to prove money won't make me happy!
It's not really that I am fustrated, I am just being turned off by the manner in which people represent the company that they work for which in turn makes me not want to buy from that company. At this point it would really take an awful lot to entice me back as a customer.
I would feel the same way if I went into a brick and mortar store and associates were standing around bad mouthing new products that their company choose to carry or a new policy that may have gone into place. You may not like it, but you need to standby it in front of a customer.
I am having a hard time understanding this frustration. It is not unusual for employees to complain about company policies that affect them (and I believe it was just policies and not product complaints) out loud to one another. The fact that there are current/potential customers around to read such complaints has to do with the fact that this forum is open to both employees (demonstrators) and customers (other hobbyists) and also because of SU's business model. SU is a sales-based model whose sales staff are part of the same hobbyist/consumer group the company targets to, and are required to interact intimately with consumers to sell product. An overlap between the two groups is not only expected, it's what sells SU product!
I would think any business based on this concept is very cognizant of that and therefore should be careful of their company image by trying to keep their sales staff (i.e., demos) happy. If anything, I consider it a poor business decision (penny wise, dollar foolish) to have limited their demos in that way, but that wouldn't stop me from buying something I wanted.
How does all of that reflect poorly on the product itself? Or make a person less inclined to buy from the company through another, perhaps more discreet and/or happy, company representative? It's not like the demos were saying SU is now producing inferior quality items. If anything, the criticism points to a controversial company policy, not necessarily poor employees. And mind you I don't have a financial interest in SU, am not a demonstrator, or a SU customer.
Think of it this way: If Macys issued a new policy regarding its employees, requiring them to wear bright red and gold turtlenecks and you heard a few salespeople lament the decision as limiting their freedom of expression, etc. when you visited the store, would you blame the employees for being disloyal by airing their displeasure? Maybe you'd feel uncomfortable for the minute or two you heard it, sure, but if you went there to buy a great item, would you walk out for that reason alone?
Also, given that we choose what content to read in the forums, it shouldn't be hard to ignore threads that contain subject matter we find objectionable and go on enjoying whatever brand we like.
To each his own, but I felt like this post was unfair to the SU demos.
I cut my stamping teeth on SU, like many of you have, but I seem to have outgrown them. They are getting way too pricey for me, and I prefer to buy the digi stamps if anything at all. Now they're changing their colors, and I'll have even less reason to shop there. I can't see making that type of investment all over again, when the ones I have will sufice. Their products are very good quality, I still use markers and ink pads I bought 15 years ago!
As far as the forum and negative feedback, that doesn't really bother me. What does bother me is the displaced loyalty some people seem to have about the company. Taking it personally is just plain silly. It's a stamp company!!!!
I am having a hard time understanding this frustration. It is not unusual for employees to complain about company policies that affect them (and I believe it was just policies and not product complaints) out loud to one another. The fact that there are current/potential customers around to read such complaints has to do with the fact that this forum is open to both employees (demonstrators) and customers (other hobbyists) and also because of SU's business model. SU is a sales-based model whose sales staff are part of the same hobbyist/consumer group the company targets to, and are required to interact intimately with consumers to sell product. An overlap between the two groups is not only expected, it's what sells SU product!
I would think any business based on this concept is very cognizant of that and therefore should be careful of their company image by trying to keep their sales staff (i.e., demos) happy. If anything, I consider it a poor business decision (penny wise, dollar foolish) to have limited their demos in that way, but that wouldn't stop me from buying something I wanted.
How does all of that reflect poorly on the product itself? Or make a person less inclined to buy from the company through another, perhaps more discreet and/or happy, company representative? It's not like the demos were saying SU is now producing inferior quality items. If anything, the criticism points to a controversial company policy, not necessarily poor employees. And mind you I don't have a financial interest in SU, am not a demonstrator, or a SU customer.
Think of it this way: If Macys issued a new policy regarding its employees, requiring them to wear bright red and gold turtlenecks and you heard a few salespeople lament the decision as limiting their freedom of expression, etc. when you visited the store, would you blame the employees for being disloyal by airing their displeasure? Maybe you'd feel uncomfortable for the minute or two you heard it, sure, but if you went there to buy a great item, would you walk out for that reason alone?
Also, given that we choose what content to read in the forums, it shouldn't be hard to ignore threads that contain subject matter we find objectionable and go on enjoying whatever brand we like.
To each his own, but I felt like this post was unfair to the SU demos.
It is one thing to complain about the company that you work for amoung fellow employees, but it is another thing to complain about it in front of customers. The demos have their demo forum to air out their compliants about product or policies.
In your example I would blame the employees for not being "customer service friendly" and complaining in front of customers, it is very unprofessional. If they don't like then change then discuss it out of earshot of customers. I use to shop at Walmart, but refuse to now, because everytime I went in there there were constantly employees complaining. So poor customer service, which I see this as, will stop me from shopping with a company.
I work in customer service for a very large retailer managing one of their customer satisfaction programs and I have a lot of experience working not only on the customer facing side but on the behind the scenes side and one thing that is so important to making customers happy and making a company look good is how the employees represent who they work for. Research has shown that if a customer sees a happy employee talking positive about all the products and services that are offered that customer is going to see that company as a whole on a postive light and shop more there and recommend to others. While it is up to the company to try and make their employees happy, the fact is that isn't always going to happen and when that occurs it is up to the employees to support their policies and products in front of customers or find employment elsewhere.
It is one thing to complain about the company that you work for amoung fellow employees, but it is another thing to complain about it in front of customers. The demos have their demo forum to air out their compliants about product or policies.
In your example I would blame the employees for not being "customer service friendly" and complaining in front of customers, it is very unprofessional. If they don't like then change then discuss it out of earshot of customers. I use to shop at Walmart, but refuse to now, because everytime I went in there there were constantly employees complaining. So poor customer service, which I see this as, will stop me from shopping with a company.
I work in customer service for a very large retailer managing one of their customer satisfaction programs and I have a lot of experience working not only on the customer facing side but on the behind the scenes side and one thing that is so important to making customers happy and making a company look good is how the employees represent who they work for. Research has shown that if a customer sees a happy employee talking positive about all the products and services that are offered that customer is going to see that company as a whole on a postive light and shop more there and recommend to others. While it is up to the company to try and make their employees happy, the fact is that isn't always going to happen and when that occurs it is up to the employees to support their policies and products in front of customers or find employment elsewhere.
Your point on presenting a friendly and positive atmosphere as customer service is well taken. However, I don't view this site or forum as a storefront for SU, and I don't really see demos as traditional "employees."
While it is somewhat unprofessional to badmouth one's employer in front of anyone, I have a hard time applying the same standards to the type of business relationship SU has with its demos. I am not as familiar with the "employment" structure, but from what i gathered it seems that demos are compensated through a 20% discount on product and product prizes depending on the sale amount per month. Maybe they are also compensated with money as well if they reach a sizeable sale amount, i don't know-- but it doesn't appear to be the same as an employee who reports to a brick and mortar store with a set schedule, earns on an hourly wage, or some combination with commission and gets health and other benefits. From what i gathered people who wanted to simply get the discount for volume buying for themselves could have become demos-- that's a very loose definition of an employee if I ever saw one. That's why I have a hard time applying the same standards.
Also, as I was pointing out, the relationship between SU demo and customer (assuming they sold to someone other than themselves) is far more intimate than a department store employee and customer,for example. The SU demos who do large volume selling teach classes, plan events and invest time to form a relationship with their customers. A Macy's employee will spend just enough time to sell you whatever they can for that day and a Walmart employee will consider his/her job done if s/he answered a question and pointed the customer to the correct aisle. They generally are not forming a lasting customer relationship. So, for me, the lines are blurred. The formality is gone. The very communication that brings SU business is what is allowing for the honest negative feedback to reach those customers. Many of these people stamp and craft together and form friendships. I can hardly imagine someone self-censoring in order to "keep the company line" in this type of creative free-expression environment.
True that demos could have stuck to the demos only part of the site, but again, from what i understand many were just doing it for the discount and wanted to vent to other "friends" out there in the ether.
Nonetheless, I don't think the demos who continue to sell SU wanted to turn off potential customers (if that was who was complaining)-- seems rather self defeating. I think those who complained the most were those who were "quitting" their demoing for SU, at which point they were simply disgruntled employees and there was no obligation to futher SU's image.
I haven't stamped at all in a couple of months, but I can see where you're coming from. I haven't been on this forum for awhile either. Sometimes, you just need to take a breather. I had a book to get out on the market so I was forced between my day job and my writing to put stamping aside and now I'm fresh and ready to hit my stamp room again. I haven't puchased a stampin up catty in awhile and though I love their products, I don't miss it. Yet. LOL. About the consultants disagreements with the company, it isn't unusual and wouldn't hinder me from buying their products. If I love a product, I don't care who sells it to me.
When read through the threads, I find a mix of people commenting about Stampin' Up: current demos, ex-demos, and customers. For the most part, I find the current demos to be positive about Stampin' Up, and often get criticized for being too positive!
I agree with the previous posters that if I like a product, I will typically buy it. I really dislike the shopping experience at Walmart, but I still go there once a month!
I like the matching ink and papers and lots of the accessories from Stampin' Up but I'm getting burned out. There is only so much money to spend and there are so many companies online that I have tried over the past few years and have liked. The acrylics are great because you can see where you are actually stamping.
Now with the price increases (our demo said the increases would be about 50 cents for CS), it's time to make some changes.
I'll get a few new card stock colors and inks and then take a break from SU and see how I feel after that. It's not easy being objective when you are burned out.
That approach seems more reasonable than just saying "no more Stampin' Up".
I think the most negativiy that I see on the general forums are two or three particular former demos who go out of their way daily to bash SU! It's really annoying after awhile. We get it: you hated SU! and you quit. Why continue to revisit every little thing? If you hate the company and you hate the product and you hate the people, why do you comment on EVERY SU! thread that comes up?
I've been a demo for almost ten years. I love SU! and what it has to offer. I know what other companies and stores offer but (for many reasons) I've chosen to be SUO. If I respond to a post, I try to ALWAYS be positive-not because I'm Pollyanna, but because I genuinely like this stuff!
That being said, NO SU! demo has ANY business airing dirty laundry on this forum. As far as I'm concerned, if we have something negative to say, it should be said on the demo side. Because it does put people off.
OP, I'm sorry you feel that way. Let me assure you, there are MANY more of us who are positive and upbeat and happy and caring, not just demos but customers, too! Don't let the Negative Nellies turn you off of something you enjoy!
~Wendy
__________________ Yeah, I'm a mom with 4 kids but that only means I'm a little crazy!
I made a little gallery!
Not actually on the subject of bashing SU!, but recently on a tv show I watch- the Real Housewives of NJ- I noticed that the majority of the women claim to hate another, but they can't seem to stop talking about her, obsessing about her, worrying about her.
If you truly do hate someone/something, wouldn't you be better off ignoring it? Pretending it was dead?
i have many SU sets.....but now i tend to go for PTI stamps cause they are just so darn cute and different and they are clear.
one thing about SU is that if you like one stamp in a set you have to get the whole thing, no options.....i like being able to buy ONE at a time. i did that last christmas...loved that reindeer.
even tho i just said that, PTI sells sets.....but oh so creative and wonderful sets.
there is something out there for everyone....tastes change, but the fun continues. i must say SU punches are great......but if i can use a 40% coupon on something similar at AC or Mikes.....i will . SU has many special punches, those i continue to purchase.
i just love to play with stamps, inks, paper etc.....all of it is fun !!
Is that new catty on SU webiste.... If so I not Excited either as far stamp sets? It's of the old stamp set in my Option. but at time love peper and inks ect.
Gdoreen with Post #48 said it very well, IMO. People tend to forget that demos are NOT employees, and not all demos sell product to other people. Many demos sign up as demos simply because they were already REALLY good customers and it was a way to support their habit with a discount. SU set it up with their business model where if you were a really good customer, the only way to have a benefit for being a really good customer was to sign up. There is no "good/great customer" discount. There are great customers who regularly spend way more than the demo minimum. There are lots of demos who have never "sold" anything to a customer but have only ever bought for themselves at a discount. It's not their fault that there isn't an alternative to receiving a "frequent buyer discount" other than signing up as a demo. But, just because they signed up for a discount, they didn't sign away their right to air their dislikes about products or policies. Most threads that turn negative usually only do so when those that voice any type of objection to a SU product or policy then get jumped on and very publicly flogged for daring to say the very things that non-demo very good customers seem to have the right to say. The negativity only usually comes in when they are verbally attacked either on the forums or via PMs. If there was a "preferred very good customer" pricing (and not the "preferred pricing" that SU has online which is only the non-jacked up price for not using a demo) and those same "preferred very good customers" spoke up, I'm sure they wouldn't be attacked the same way that many demos are (but then again, they might be simply because some demos seem to have it out for certain people regardless).
Your point on presenting a friendly and positive atmosphere as customer service is well taken. However, I don't view this site or forum as a storefront for SU, and I don't really see demos as traditional "employees."
While it is somewhat unprofessional to badmouth one's employer in front of anyone, I have a hard time applying the same standards to the type of business relationship SU has with its demos. I am not as familiar with the "employment" structure, but from what i gathered it seems that demos are compensated through a 20% discount on product and product prizes depending on the sale amount per month. Maybe they are also compensated with money as well if they reach a sizeable sale amount, i don't know-- but it doesn't appear to be the same as an employee who reports to a brick and mortar store with a set schedule, earns on an hourly wage, or some combination with commission and gets health and other benefits. From what i gathered people who wanted to simply get the discount for volume buying for themselves could have become demos-- that's a very loose definition of an employee if I ever saw one. That's why I have a hard time applying the same standards.
Also, as I was pointing out, the relationship between SU demo and customer (assuming they sold to someone other than themselves) is far more intimate than a department store employee and customer,for example. The SU demos who do large volume selling teach classes, plan events and invest time to form a relationship with their customers. A Macy's employee will spend just enough time to sell you whatever they can for that day and a Walmart employee will consider his/her job done if s/he answered a question and pointed the customer to the correct aisle. They generally are not forming a lasting customer relationship. So, for me, the lines are blurred. The formality is gone. The very communication that brings SU business is what is allowing for the honest negative feedback to reach those customers. Many of these people stamp and craft together and form friendships. I can hardly imagine someone self-censoring in order to "keep the company line" in this type of creative free-expression environment.
True that demos could have stuck to the demos only part of the site, but again, from what i understand many were just doing it for the discount and wanted to vent to other "friends" out there in the ether.
Nonetheless, I don't think the demos who continue to sell SU wanted to turn off potential customers (if that was who was complaining)-- seems rather self defeating. I think those who complained the most were those who were "quitting" their demoing for SU, at which point they were simply disgruntled employees and there was no obligation to futher SU's image.
My two cents anyway.
Also SU did put out that demos are a demo for SU 24/7 and must always show a positive good image for the company. And per SU that means hobby or business demo so yes it is like a regular box store of employees.
Last edited by meluvstampin; 06-16-2010 at 01:59 PM..
Also SU did put out that demos are a demo for SU 24/7 and must always show a positive good image for the company. And per SU that means hobby or business demo so yes it is like a regular box store of employees.
Well, except that all the demos get is a measly couple of bucks off of SU merchandise while even Walmart employees actually get paid and have some form of health insurance (however poor). How that discount entitles a company to limit/police anyone's behavior 24/7 is beyond me. Nonetheless, I think the demos who complained had in all likelihood ended their contract with SU and I would be really disgusted if I heard that there was a clause in there preventing demos from ever saying something negative about SU-- reminiscent of communist Russia.
i have to say if a company pisses off that many reps/employees or a even a few to such an extent as to engender an obsessive hatred, the problem is with the company. Plus, you have to wonder why SU had to put in such a clause in their agreements if they were such a wonderful company. Maybe their lawyers were being extra careful, or maybe there was a legitimate fear of competition and people seeing the ugly side of their business (like that you could buy a majority of their tools for far cheaper elsewhere). Nonetheless, it doesn't show much faith in their company. When employees are happy and like what they sell (and that includes price points, varied buying options, and responsiveness to customer feedback), they don't have to be censored.
Also, I agree with a few of the other posters about SU being completely overpriced, limiting in buying options and being behind the times with the cling stamps. That's what kept me from being a SU customer.
So, the Tinkerbell fairy dust has been knocked off for you by a few Negative Nellies? Not the product itself? Somehow that doesn't seem fair.
I'm not a big SU! fan these days, but it has more to do with an established stamp library where I don't need so much anymore.
__________________ If you don't want your tax dollars to help the poor, then stop saying you want a country based on Christian values, because you don't. ~ Jimmy Carter
Well, except that all the demos get is a measly couple of bucks off of SU merchandise while even Walmart employees actually get paid and have some form of health insurance (however poor). How that discount entitles a company to limit/police anyone's behavior 24/7 is beyond me. Nonetheless, I think the demos who complained had in all likelihood ended their contract with SU and I would be really disgusted if I heard that there was a clause in there preventing demos from ever saying something negative about SU-- reminiscent of communist Russia.
i have to say if a company pisses off that many reps/employees or a even a few to such an extent as to engender an obsessive hatred, the problem is with the company. Plus, you have to wonder why SU had to put in such a clause in their agreements if they were such a wonderful company. Maybe their lawyers were being extra careful, or maybe there was a legitimate fear of competition and people seeing the ugly side of their business (like that you could buy a majority of their tools for far cheaper elsewhere). Nonetheless, it doesn't show much faith in their company. When employees are happy and like what they sell (and that includes price points, varied buying options, and responsiveness to customer feedback), they don't have to be censored.
Also, I agree with a few of the other posters about SU being completely overpriced, limiting in buying options and being behind the times with the cling stamps. That's what kept me from being a SU customer.
Due to the IDA SU came up with I was one that quit during this time. I love to many other companies to be limited to just one.
I think SU knows though that when they did this they have faithful demos that would not quit and would follow the new IDA.
Personally I have my thoughts on the IDA that I will not post here.
THere is an old very heated thread from last September about this. Some of us demos were very mad and against the IDA in telling us what we can say and what we can use. Then there were demos who favored the IDA and Su can do no wrong.
I agree with the Original Poster ( OP for anyone not familiar with that shorthand ). I will be turned off by bad customer service at a brick and mortar store and I consider employees openly complaining about the store bad customer service. Because usually they are so busy complaining to each other they can't stop and help me find what I need to make my purchases. I have even had cashiers who were so busy complaining to their neighboring cashier they ring my items up incorrectly ( one thing twice, or not at all ), they don't bother to tell me the total, don't speak to me AT ALL because they won't stop their conversation. This is a turn off, and I have gone so far as to speak with store managers about the behavior but can't think of a place I just don't shop at anymore because of it.
This site was indeed started by an SU demo. It is called "Splitcoast" because this demo had team members on both sides of the United States. There used to be an About Us link that had the story but since this site has been sold, perhaps that story is no longer available. I found this site at the time I was an SU demo, referred here by my upline as a great place to find ideas. SCS has one of the best Stampin' Up galleries that I've ever found. I had access to the demo only forum and used to only spend time there. Then I wandered over to the general forum and was surprised to find some less than enthusiastic threads about the "parent" company....the company that indeed was the basis of how this site came to be in existence.
I am unclear of the complete growth of this site as a public forum and who was moderating at the point that other stamp companies became "member companies" and how that played into what an SU Demo could and could not promote over the internet. These are non-issues now because the current owners are not affiliated with SU.
I mentioned all that to say that I wonder how many of the original team members...the Splitcoast team....still come here? Do they frequent the general forum or the demo only forum? I don't expect an answer but perhaps it is some of those demos who most often jump to the defense of SU when negative threads start? If they, or any other demos feel that there is misinformation being discussed it seems a natural reaction to want to clear it up; or offer another, more positive viewpoint and I don't hold that against them.
I stopped being a Demo simply because I was my own best customer and couldn't afford to do that anymore.
This being a wide open forum there are going to be those negative SU threads. I think it's a shame when it turns into a verbal fight, but I think that is the nature of the beast; the anonymity of a keyboard and monitor let people "cut loose".
Those who don't like SU policies and or products have every right to their opinions and to use this forum to express those opinions. But I also feel those who still like the company have a right to respond to those negative comments without being bashed for their defense. For all the years I've been out here reading threads I can't remember reading a comment clearly identified as being from a demo that felt like they were BASHING the "Negative Nellies" for being negative. Simply offering a positive viewpoint.
What has become apparent is that those who wish to discuss, ( vent, criticize or whatever ) SU from that negative view really want to be left alone to do it....I've even seen thread titles asking that positive comments NOT be posted there! That just makes me laugh and lets me know to stay away from that thread.
I am not all SU all the time, but there is nothing I've experienced either as a demo or a regular customer that makes me want to become that negative about them.
I suppose I am rambling at this point. My bottom line on the complaining employees thing would be if the demo I personally bought from had a bad attitude I might stop buying or just go find a different demo. But I don't let the discussions on THIS forum effect my buying decisions.
And I was trying to express why I think SU discussions get so heated out here by verifying that Yes, SCS was started by a demo, so maybe those team members feel the public forum has been "hijacked" from them in some way and that is why they defend the company as they do. It has always seemed odd to me that those negative threads occurred. It just didn't seem like the right place given it was started by a demo. But I guess that's why the public forum and the demo only forum exist.
I also agree with other posters who commented that as they have been stamping over a number of years and their skills and tastes change they find themselves buying less SU simply because what they want in terms of images aren't available. I think it's a natural progression of a craft. I believe SU is a great company to "cut your teeth on" as another poster mentioned. If you are just getting started it is very helpful to have the coordinating papers and inks, stamps available in sets, and a live demo around to show you how to get going.
I am always interested to see what is new at SU and can't wait to get my new catalog. In the last few years there are less and less stamp sets that catch my interest so my money tends to go to paper or ink or embellishments and I search other companies for a new stamp set. No biggie.
It's not really that I am fustrated, I am just being turned off by the manner in which people represent the company that they work for which in turn makes me not want to buy from that company. At this point it would really take an awful lot to entice me back as a customer.
I would feel the same way if I went into a brick and mortar store and associates were standing around bad mouthing new products that their company choose to carry or a new policy that may have gone into place. You may not like it, but you need to standby it in front of a customer.
I totally understand what you are saying, I think in a nutshell the thing is that a lot of those demonstrators who are so negative are people who never signed up from a business perspective in the first place. They signed up to get a discount, or other perks and have no loyalty to SU or other demonstrators from a business standpoint. Yes it is unprofessional, drags internal business out for customers to see, which in almost all cases would result in fixes that would never even impact the general public. But again, they don't see SU as a business and if they aren't running a business, they may not even understand the ramifications or the business point of view.
ETA
I hope everyone who feels the same way will understand that in the direct sales business that is the nature of the beast and will not be turned away completely but try to find more positive influences elsewhere. It is understandable from a customer point of view that you will want to spread your choices among several companies and want to have style changes from time to time.
Having been on this site for a long time, I can tell you it has changed a LOT from the time I first started hanging around here. I used to spend all day on here, posting and reading. It was a fun, friendly, almost a family atmosphere.
Now? Not so much. I don't spend much time here. Not only because of the negativity, but partially. Who wants to spend time on a site when it seems like there are a number of people who want to give you a nice kick in the rear because you still like SU!? And I do still like them. I've been a demonstrator 7+ years and still find that there is a nice enough variety of stamps for my tastes. Probably because I discovered at the beginning that I don't like to pin myself down to just one style, but enjoy stamping with all different kinds of styles.
I realize that people are going to like other companies' products. I do myself. But it makes me sad that the people who have conceived a dislike for the company I represent have become the face of that company here, rather than the thousands of demonstrators who still are very happy to be demonstrators. Stella is right...the people who are making a business out of SU! don't have time to waste propping up forums (maybe if I had spent less time doing that at the beginning of my business, I would have been more successful.) They are out there, showing the products that they love. Most of the demonstrators that do come here either stay on the demo side because the negativity gets them down, or they have left the site. I have never totally left, because I feel I owe this site a large debt for getting me where I am today.
Like I said, I used to be here all day. Most of the time now, I drop in maybe once a week. this isn't entirely due to the negativity, part of it is that I am going to school and just don't have the time. This week has been unusual because I've had a bit of a break from school work and I was curious about how people were liking the new catalog, so I've come here about once a day. But that's it.
I also have to chuckle about the price change in cardstock...does anyone really think that now that SU! is raising their prices, that the others will not follow suit? PTI very carefully prices their cardstock just below SU! for a reason. If the costs of producing cardstock are going up for SU! (which is the reason the prices are going up) they are going up for every other company. You *will* see prices going up everywhere, and I'm sure that PTI's prices will, once again, be just a hair less than SU! They aren't going to want to lose money offering cardstock for the same price as last year and the year before when the costs of producing it are going up.
So my response to the OP is...don't judge SU! on what you read here. While there are some of us who still post in General Stamping that still love being demonstrators, there are thousands more that still love being demonstrators who have never been here or who have and have found other places to share their love of the product. There are between 30,000 and 40,000 demonstrators in the United States alone...don't take what a few people who have to say here about SU! as being the opinion of the greater majority of demonstrators. Most of us are demonstrators because we love the company and we love the products.
For some reason people get really worked up (negative and positive) on SCS about SU.
Just buy what you like...no one expects you to do otherwise. It doesn't matter what other people are buying or what stamps they are liking these days...
Jan, that was a very well thought out and well articulated response. You made great points and defended the company you represent in a classy manner. Thank you!
For some reason people get really worked up (negative and positive) on SCS about SU.
Just buy what you like...no one expects you to do otherwise. It doesn't matter what other people are buying or what stamps they are liking these days...
I agree, and add to that
It doesn't matter what other people's opinions are, if you love a company great, why does it matter if someone else doesn't.
Neither side of this issue has the right to try to silence the other. If you don't want know about these issues then skip over the posts.
I think the most negativiy that I see on the general forums are two or three particular former demos who go out of their way daily to bash SU! It's really annoying after awhile. We get it: you hated SU! and you quit. Why continue to revisit every little thing? If you hate the company and you hate the product and you hate the people, why do you comment on EVERY SU! thread that comes up?
I've been a demo for almost ten years. I love SU! and what it has to offer. I know what other companies and stores offer but (for many reasons) I've chosen to be SUO. If I respond to a post, I try to ALWAYS be positive-not because I'm Pollyanna, but because I genuinely like this stuff!
That being said, NO SU! demo has ANY business airing dirty laundry on this forum. As far as I'm concerned, if we have something negative to say, it should be said on the demo side. Because it does put people off.
OP, I'm sorry you feel that way. Let me assure you, there are MANY more of us who are positive and upbeat and happy and caring, not just demos but customers, too! Don't let the Negative Nellies turn you off of something you enjoy!
~Wendy
I have to agree with you! I am a SU demo and love it. I hate it when I see someone bashing a company. If you have a problem - I understand. Address it with the powers that be - they are the ones that can help you. If you feel the need to make it public so everyone knows what is going on - that is your choice. you have the right to put it out there. But the constant negative banter that goes on is a real turn off. It is never ending at times. that is what I do not like nor will I participate in.
I try to respond with positive replies. I know there are other companies out there besides SU and there is a place for all of them in papercrafting. There will always be pros and cons about all of them. All I am saying is don't beat a dead horse.
We all participate in Splitcoaststampers because we have a 'love' of stamping.
I currently purchase all of my cardstock from SU!, but what I have heard about the price increase will change that. It is just way to much more a sheet. I will have to try other companies...
You'll find the same thing. Paper products are up across the board. We're seeing it in the office big time!
Office Depot was recently notified by all of their paper manufacturer mills that there will be a paper price increase effective June 1, 2010. The increase is industry-wide and affects all paper brands and all distributors. The rising costs of energy and raw materials necessary to produce the paper, along with the closing of many paper mills have fueled the increase.
And this on the heels of the increase in MAY!
__________________ Pegg Thomas Socialism is trickle up poverty.
You'll find the same thing. Paper products are up across the board. We're seeing it in the office big time!
And this on the heels of the increase in MAY!
I am confused. Is the price increase for SU! cardstock $0.50 per pack of 24 sheets? I read above some where that it was per sheet which sounds unlikely.
I have switched to PTI for my 8 1/2 X 11 cardstock as it is $5 per pack of 24 compared to SU!'s $5.50 and PTI is 110lb rather than 80lb. I also like that I can get a pack of 12 sheets for $3 or 50 sheets for $9. With free shipping and no tax...it just seems more affordable for PTI cardstock and with the new color revamp at SU...they discontinued my favorite colors so... PTI is currently getting a lot of my money.
That being said I would still buy SU! for 12 X 12 packs of cardstock if that will still be available. Any word on what that will run me $ wise?
I don't have the new catalog yet, I'm not sure how much it's going up. It will be per pack, if someone has a demo selling it by the sheet... I believe that demo is in violation of her agreement with SU. But look for PTI and all the others to increase their prices as well.
__________________ Pegg Thomas Socialism is trickle up poverty.
So here's my take on it. Negativity aside, the stuff is just not unique anymore. I can find $1 stamps that are just as good and copy the SU stuff. In the beginning, when stamps were few and far between, SU has an advantage. That is just not the case anymore.
Honestly? I wish they would do a retro thing. There are many older stamps that have become very expensive to have and I missed b/c I had not heard of SU. They should revise some of the older ones and then I would be interested. Right now it seems to be more of the same.
I totally agree, I love some of their older stuff and it was more unique than what they have had in the last few catalogs. I know that the last 2 years I have become tired of SU and started to branch out.
I do love their inks and cardstock and am bummed with all the color changes. It is expensive to get stocked up on the whole collection.
Just have fun stampin' and sending warm fuzzies. Don't worry about what stamp you are using to do it
Lois
hoo rah! Now that's the flavor Koolaid we all need to partake of ;)
It's only paper and ink...enjoy and have fun. Real life is always out there to get worked up about, stamping is supposed to take us away from that right? Isn't that what a hobby or art is for?
My old group name was SWAS : Stamp with a Smile
kinda says it all for me
I think the per sheet price mentioned was a breakdown so that a "per unit" type of comparison could be made to other company prices. I don't think that price included the shipping and tax, however.
