Splitcoaststampers

Splitcoaststampers (https://www.splitcoaststampers.com/forums/)
-   Tool & Product Talk (https://www.splitcoaststampers.com/forums/tool-product-talk-f128/)
-   -   The Fate of Coordinating Dies? (https://www.splitcoaststampers.com/forums/tool-product-talk-f128/fate-coordinating-dies-t628487.html)

fl_beachbum 04-20-2019 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris01 (Post 21810649)
What is real reason SU not going to sell the Big Shot anymore?

SU started they could not come to an agreement with them. They’re also going straight to the manufacturer for the dies. So there is no longer a business relationship with Sizzix.

LMstamps 04-20-2019 02:05 PM

What are you referring to? LM :-)


Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy (Post 21810080)
This morning's email was titled "check out this heartfelt project". I was stunned, what an incredibly low blow. I couldn't hit the delete button fast enough.

I realize they will probably claim it wasn't meant the way I took it but they started all this so they should be extra cognitive and careful of what they say and do going forward IMO. Shame on them.


Rebecca Ednie 04-23-2019 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diane617 (Post 21803002)
I guess I don't understand why people are upset with Sizzix. They developed the technique, same as Ilyana and MISTI. Everyone backed her with her lawsuit

A LOT of people didn’t back her. Many people were and are against her.

Rebecca Ednie 04-23-2019 10:17 AM

Wow! I am blown away by this lawsuit! A patent shouldn’t have been extended in the first place as Stephanie B’s legal team suggests. They moved the cutting surface to the edge of the die instead of in the middle. Really? So what? It’s still a chemically etched die. It still cuts. It still works with stamped images. Changing the parameters so slightly does not mean it’s a new invention. I hope this law suit dies a painful death. That’s like a car manufacturer moving the steering wheel over by 1” and claiming that deserves a patent. ‘No other car company shall move their steering wheels now. Ever.’ Seriously? I’m not a big consumer of Sizzix anyways but I’m going to unsubscribe from their emails. Dang this makes me mad!

muscrat 04-23-2019 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fl_beachbum (Post 21810737)
SU started they could not come to an agreement with them. They’re also going straight to the manufacturer for the dies. So there is no longer a business relationship with Sizzix.


SU isnt selling anything sizzix in the new catalog. So that's why embossing folders are disappearing too, I think.

javagirl984 04-23-2019 10:36 AM

Interesting. Makes me glad that I use a Spellbinders die cutting machine and my paper trimmers are from Tonic. Sizzix may be shooting themselves in the foot. I rarely buy their brand of dies. They don't have anything appealing to me. I guess we'll see what happens.

javagirl984 04-23-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscrat (Post 21811978)
SU isnt selling anything sizzix in the new catalog. So that's why embossing folders are disappearing too, I think.


There are other companies that make Embossing Folders. And I don't think Sizzix has the patent for those. I thought Provocraft did? But I could be wrong.

papercrafter40 04-23-2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dapperdoxie (Post 21809245)
I was hoping to get another LARGER manual die cut machine in the next month or two, and was leaning towards the big shot pro....however this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, so don't think I will be getting it. Will go with the spellbinders one. I wasn't around when the spellbinders suit was going on...so maybe thats not any better, but don't have a lot of choices, when I want the larger platform, and not electric. So sad! Do NOT like how sue happy everyone seems to be these days. :(


I don't know what your budget is, but Maker's Movement's Crossover II machine uses an 8.5x12" platform. I have their Big Sister (older model from when they were still Cheery Lynn, though still not that old), and it works fabulously! You can get the Crossover II at their website - cost $249.99. HTH! :)

Stampin Wrose 04-23-2019 07:54 PM

SU will have new embossing folders.

dapperdoxie 04-23-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papercrafter40 (Post 21812013)
I don't know what your budget is, but Maker's Movement's Crossover II machine uses an 8.5x12" platform. I have their Big Sister (older model from when they were still Cheery Lynn, though still not that old), and it works fabulously! You can get the Crossover II at their website - cost $249.99. HTH! :)


I have thought about theirs...but it's so much more expensive, I didn't know that it would be worth THAT much. Basically it's double the price...and probably not as easy to find plates and such...so thats why I figured I'd go with one of the two more common ones. Thanks though for the idea! I really had wondered about that one, I liked the idea of the adjustable rollers...but couldn't get past the price. LOL

dmcg 04-25-2019 10:24 AM

Ok...this helps me understand why when I went to Michael's in Canada recently that I could not find any Big Kick machine or any of it's pads/plates. There were hardly any dies or other machines either -only some Cricut machine. This is so sad and so ridiculous.

muscrat 04-25-2019 11:43 AM

We still have lots of sizzix dies and diecutting machines in our local stores. I don't think they are doing away with them. SU just discontinued their relationship with Sizzix.

jnsyr 04-26-2019 11:44 AM

Interesting...it seems that these kinds of lawsuits often end up hurting the company that initiates them. Sizzix and Provo Craft had a big fallout years ago. I hear a lot of negative about the creator of the MISTI suing other companies. Cricut lost a lot of customers when they sued companies like Sure Cuts a Lot over making software to use on the Cricut. I do think patent owners need to protect their patents, but the Hero Arts statement on Scrapbook Update really resonates for me--we are a crafting community. I wish the patent owners would (and maybe they do!) contact companies they believe violate their patent by warning of a suit unless all future dies are made by their company--making an agreement to work together. It's got to be cheaper in the long run than a lawsuit. In an industry where CASE is favored, there needs to be a happy medium--legally.

dmcg 04-26-2019 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscrat (Post 21812723)
We still have lots of sizzix dies and diecutting machines in our local stores. I don't think they are doing away with them. SU just discontinued their relationship with Sizzix.


Looks like I may have to take a trip to the US and cruise the stores there:)

muscrat 04-26-2019 01:15 PM

Come on down! LOL.. I just bought a sizzix doily die not too long ago. I also looked at the diecutting machines, even though I have two. The clear cutting plates are $9.99 at michaels, but $12.99 at acmoore. My LSS sells them for $7.95 so I pick up a pair there whenever I get out.

Annecards 05-03-2019 05:55 AM

I rarely purchase matching dies these days, and use my SNC for cutting stamped images. I solved the inside cuts issue by using Corel Draw, SCAL, or Adobe Illustrator depending on the design. Actually Silhouette Studo Designer Edition is an economical program for editing stamped images as well. I save the files so I only have to edit the image cut lines once. Wonder if they’ll go after the SNC next. I’m just waiting for Provocraft (Cricut) to file suite against WRMK for making the adapter for use with their machines, bet that’s coming next.

istampustamp 07-31-2019 01:35 PM

What many people have forgotten or maybe have not realized at all is that Quickutz made chemically etched dies long before Sizzix dominated the market. In my personal, not professional, opinion this isn't going to be be a positive move for Sizzix and hasn't had the outcome they expected.

bjeans 08-01-2019 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diane617 (Post 21803002)
I guess I don't understand why people are upset with Sizzix. They developed the technique, same as Ilyana and MISTI. Everyone backed her with her lawsuit


Not at all. People have to be careful about what is said here, of course, but even here quite a bit was posted, (including about a letterpress used as a platform long ago), and elsewhere there was anger, including from some LSSs.

Scrapjanny 08-01-2019 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjeans (Post 21847608)
Not at all. People have to be careful about what is said here, of course, but even here quite a bit was posted, (including about a letterpress used as a platform long ago), and elsewhere there was anger, including from some LSSs.


Yes, negative comments are sometimes deleted at the discretion of the moderators, so the posts don't always reflect all of the opinions of the members here. We really can't assume that "everyone" feels a certain way, since not everyone's posts remain in the forum.

stampin stacy 08-01-2019 07:17 AM

I know this could drag on for a very long time but was wondering if there is any news/movement for any of the companies involved. Still breaks my heart and makes me angry.


BTW, it may have already been mentioned but... I was looking over the sale items at Spellbinder this morning and noticed that a lot of their stamp and die sets appear to be closed dies not open. How did I missed that before:confused: Maybe this why they were not included in the Lawsuititus that Sizzix seems to be suffering of late.

Lazorkay 08-01-2019 11:53 AM

I unsubscribed to all things Sizzix.

stampin stacy 08-02-2019 06:05 AM

I have considered doing that too, I delete their emails as they come in without opening but you know the old saying about keep friends close and...

A little voice keeps saying don't do it yet, so I haven't. They still ain't getting any of my money anymore though.

lesliespringer 08-02-2019 09:24 AM

Is Tim Holtz with Sizzix? I'm just starting to get into his stamps and just want to know if this is the company he is with, if so has an TH fans stopped buying TH products because they are made by Sizzix? Just a need to know, Not trying to start any debates or bad feelings, or commenting.

bjeans 08-02-2019 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesliespringer (Post 21848208)
Is Tim Holtz with Sizzix? I'm just starting to get into his stamps and just want to know if this is the company he is with, if so has an TH fans stopped buying TH products because they are made by Sizzix? Just a need to know, Not trying to start any debates or bad feelings, or commenting.

He’s affiliated with many companies: Ranger, Tonic, Stampers Anonymous, others... and yes, Sizzix. And he would have contractual agreements with them all, so either party may or may not renew, depending on the terms.

I don’t think there’s any way of knowing what percentage of people who would normally buy Sizzix have stopped, but Tim’s Sizzix products would be included for those who made that decision.

ETA But for comparison or example, here are a bunch of his Stampers Anonymous stamps:
https://www.scrapbook.com/store/bran...EaAjacEALw_wcB

And here are some Sizzix products, lots of dies and embossing folders:
https://www.scrapbook.com/store/bran...QaAq_TEALw_wcB

lesliespringer 08-02-2019 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjeans (Post 21848212)
He’s affiliated with many companies: Ranger, Tonic, Stampers Anonymous, others... and yes, Sizzix. And he would have contractual agreements with them all, so either party may or may not renew, depending on the terms.

I don’t think there’s any way of knowing what percentage of people who would normally buy Sizzix have stopped, but Tim’s Sizzix products would be included for those who made that decision.

ETA But for comparison or example, here are a bunch of his Stampers Anonymous stamps:
Stampers Anonymous Stamps, Templates and Accessories - Scrapbook.com

And here are some Sizzix products, lots of dies and embossing folders:
Shop Sizzix with Tim Holtz - Scrapbook.com



Thanks so much!!

Lazorkay 08-02-2019 10:08 AM

Yes, as much as it pains me, no Sizzix products, so no Tim dies etc.

fionna51 08-02-2019 01:23 PM

I only have a few Sizzix-branded dies...mostly I have SU dies that were made by Sizzix, but aren't any more. To be honest, there aren't very many Sizzix dies that catch my eye.


I don't like what they are doing, I think that it is not going to go well for them, I don't search for their dies at all, so the whole thing isn't really affecting me right now. SU found a different manufacturer, other companies can find different manufacturers as well. I really don't think it's going to be more than a blip in the marketplace for us.

dapperdoxie 08-02-2019 02:08 PM

I haven't ever gotten to many of their dies either, they just don't have the look I like for the most part. There are a few, and some I've not gotten I might have liked to, but I don't plan on it now. The biggest thing I had planned on was to have gotten the Big Shot Plus but I went with the spellbinders instead, when I was buying a new die cutter for my birthday a couple months ago.

lylacfey 08-02-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy (Post 21847720)
I know this could drag on for a very long time but was wondering if there is any news/movement for any of the companies involved. Still breaks my heart and makes me angry.

Craft Industry Alliance did a small update in a new roundup- News Roundup from the Scrapbooking Industry - Craft Industry Alliance

Hope that helps.

stampin stacy 08-05-2019 06:04 AM

Thanks for the update.

Dang it, sounds like Avery Elle whom some of us were excited to see was all fired up and determined ended up in mediation settlement. I'm starting to get the feeling this is not going to end in a way I'll be happy with.

Sizzix, I stand by what I said before you WILL NOT get anymore of my $$. I got into paper crafting because of a love of stamping not die cutting. I can and will survive and be happy without you and your product.

howdyheidi 08-05-2019 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lylacfey (Post 21848467)
Craft Industry Alliance did a small update in a new roundup- News Roundup from the Scrapbooking Industry - Craft Industry Alliance

Hope that helps.

Thanks for this update on several crafting fronts.


I didn’t know that MSP was suing Stampin Up for their stamping platform. I thought the Stampin up one was creative and innovative.

howdyheidi 08-05-2019 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy (Post 21849687)
Thanks for the update.

Dang it, sounds like Avery Elle whom some of us were excited to see was all fired up and determined ended up in mediation settlement. I'm starting to get the feeling this is not going to end in a way I'll be happy with.

Sizzix, I stand by what I said before you WILL NOT get anymore of my $$. I got into paper crafting because of a love of stamping not die cutting. I can and will survive and be happy without you and your product.



I don’t know, but I am guessing that it was a business decision, and settling was much cheaper than the lawyers to keep going with the suit. It has to be very hard for these small companies. I know of a small family-owned food company that was sued wrongly and gratuitously, and their business has struggled ever since. And that was even with settling.

jnsyr 08-05-2019 12:39 PM

The reason for patent law is to allow the creator a chance to sell use of the invention for a limited # of years--it inspires more companies and individuals to create their own patentable inventions, and gives an incentive to that company to continue innovating. It's up to the US Patent Office whether or not something is innovative enough to merit a patent.

Once you do receive a patent, it is worth your while to protect it.

I don't know why other companies decided to make their dies in the same manner that Sizzix has patented. Perhaps they were unaware of the patent, but that still doesn't make it OK. They should have had their vendor or their own lawyers checking things like that. Other die-cutting formats were out there already, so to use Sizzix's design illegally just seems foolish to me.

As for SU: I've used Stampin' Up! products for years and watched the changes in their product offerings. It seems to me that they very much like to have their own in-house products. Therefore, I'm more surprised that they stayed with Sizzix for so long rather than that they are now lone-branding their dies and embossing folders. They were also smart enough to make sure their dies are not using Sizzix's patent.

So I'm personally not going to begrudge Sizzix for enforcing their patent. When it runs out, unless they can show a reason for it being renewed, they will have lost their bargaining chip and extra sales it brings them. I think it makes sense for the other companies to settle out of court.

bjeans 08-05-2019 02:41 PM

I don't have an opinion about this lawsuit (don't know enough), but well put. It's our hobby; it's their business, horse of a different color.

creativechbdcrafts 08-06-2019 02:22 PM

although i dont understand why sizzix is suing everyone they can and think theyre only going to earn lots of hard feelings, i'm trying to teach myself that i dont have to fight every battle im invited to. the suits have nothing to do with me personally, and theyre not illegal or immoral so ill continue using & buying sizzix as my taste and (wishful) budget allows

lylacfey 08-10-2019 12:54 AM

YW :) I love you wrote you got into paper crafting for stamping and not die cutting. Girl, that resonated with me. Mine was stamping and stickers.

I am doing my yearly take stock of my room. I take all my projects and write down everything I use. Dies are not on that list. I think this is the third year running that I started doing this list thing where dies are not on there. I keep buying those Ali dies, ROFL.

Stamping is life. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy (Post 21849687)
Thanks for the update.

Dang it, sounds like Avery Elle whom some of us were excited to see was all fired up and determined ended up in mediation settlement. I'm starting to get the feeling this is not going to end in a way I'll be happy with.

Sizzix, I stand by what I said before you WILL NOT get anymore of my $$. I got into paper crafting because of a love of stamping not die cutting. I can and will survive and be happy without you and your product.


AussieJenny 08-11-2019 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annecards (Post 21815556)
Wonder if they’ll go after the SNC next. I’m just waiting for Provocraft (Cricut) to file suite against WRMK for making the adapter for use with their machines, bet that’s coming next.

The foil quill is a great accessory it gives people another reason to buy a computer controlled cutter rather than a die-cut machine. If Cricut didn't allow it on their machines they would lose some sales I think. When I say "great" I haven't got one yet, but I think its a really good concept.

lutheran 08-11-2019 06:25 AM

SU! stayed with Sizzix for a long time as it was one-stop shopping, so to speak. They could get custom dies to match stamp sets, sell Sizzix dies, the Big Shot and BS accessories. I'm not surprised the partnership ended, considering the Sizzix legal matters, but it's too bad that us demos don't have any cutting machine to offer at this time. BTW, the new dies are awesome!
Mary Beth

lylacfey 08-12-2019 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutheran (Post 21853152)
SU! stayed with Sizzix for a long time as it was one-stop shopping, so to speak. They could get custom dies to match stamp sets, sell Sizzix dies, the Big Shot and BS accessories. I'm not surprised the partnership ended, considering the Sizzix legal matters, but it's too bad that us demos don't have any cutting machine to offer at this time. BTW, the new dies are awesome!

Mary Beth

Legitimate question. :) I have been watching some SU YT demo's. A couple of demo's are not using a die cutting machine at all since the partnership ended because they were told by their uplines to not use a Big Shot and to wait for the new SU machine.

Then other YT demo's are pulling out their Gemini's, still using their SU branded Big Shots, etc.... I do know the demo's who are still using the SU branded Big Shots do say in their videos that SU has retired the machine. They are still using it.

Are the "waiting ladies" receiving confusing info from their upline?

Not trying to start SU drama, so I hope my curiosity and confusion doesn't read that way. I have the curiosity of a cat.

When the new catalog released and I looked at the new dies & before I saw those videos I thought to myself the demo's are probably super excited they can use their choice of machines. I know a few demo's were excited about selling their SU branded Big Shots to upgrade to a Gemini.

jnsyr 08-12-2019 05:27 AM

I'm just a hobby demo who never hears from her upline, so I only know what SU has said, and they just say that you can use their new dies & folders with any die cut machine. I don't think they'd want demos not using dies at all, because that could affect the company's sales.

I don't believe the Sizzix lawsuits would affect their position to end the partnership--it's possible, but it really didn't affect them--other than making sure their new dies did not infringe on the patent! (They made sure to explain how to line up images for die cutting.) I also don't think they're trying to dissuade demonstrators from using the Big Shot, whether SU-branded or not. They came out with a new embossing plate to accommodate for the smaller "sandwich" for those using the Big Shot (the new folders are thinner). So if any demo is NOT using dies, that person isn't doing anyone a favor.

By the way, what is a SU "YT" demo? I don't know for what the YT is an acronym.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:07 PM.