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Old 01-22-2020, 10:14 AM   #1
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Default Are all foils equal?

When I checked on foil I found a 2 year old thread but that was about the machine you use-like laminators. 

There has been a steady increase in heat foiling (there is now a deco foil gel you can use both hot and cold-cold thru your big shot-see JMacguire did a vid on it. Called Duo)
Lots of foil brands out there now. Deco, Gina K, Spellbinders, Minc line....

Question: Are all hot foils equal? Can I run any brand thru my new laminator? 

Seems like they should be, but I have been caught out before with "what should be and what is are two totally different things". 

Does the adhesive matter? Like can I use my deco foil gel on all foils?

I love holo and there are a bunch of them coming in between different companies...
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:27 AM   #2
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I am far from an expert on this, but the foils are not all the same. Deco, Gina K, Minc are interchangeable and can be used in a laminator or Minc, they work with the deco foil transfer gel as well as any adhesive that dries tacky (Mono Multi glue, for instance) or with double-sided tape.

Spellbinders foils and WRMK foil for the foil quill are heat transfer foil. They work by applying heat and pressure to the foil and it transfers to the cardstock; no ink, transfer gel or toner needed. The Spellbinders Glimmer system is one tool they work with; you buy special hot foil transfer dies, heat them up on the platform, layer your foil and whatever you are foiling, add plates/shims and send it thru your diecutting machine (big shot, etc.) It makes kind of a letterpress effect. The WRMK foil quill is a hot tool that fits in an electronic cutter like a Silhouette Cameo or a Cricut and can be used to transfer a foil design.

if you go to youtube and search "nancy stamps foils", she has tons of videos on the different tools and foils. It's very easy to spend a whole chunk of a day off watching all of them But when you're done, you'll have a pretty good overview.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:25 PM   #3
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Thanks Cheryl! See? I suspected there were differences. Well I am not investing in 3 kinds of foil and machines. Letterpress is cool, but no. 

Hmmmm...if spellbinders and WRMK are heat activated...maybe they would work in a laminator with a gel? I just don't want to ruin the machine. I can lose foil and paper....well hopefully Nancy will teach me.  

Apparently the industry thinks we are not only all rich but have a whole house just for crafting..."and this is my foil room...and this is my die cutting and embossing room...." LOL. Boy you can have one serious crop if you had a house like that! 
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Old 01-23-2020, 03:55 AM   #4
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I can only say that I've bought any number of brands of heat activated foil, and every one, even a cheap  'from China' type, have worked without fail in my laminator. However, I do know that there are one or two types that won't work with a laminator, but forgive me, I cannot for the life of me recall the brands. I just know they are not intended for heat activation.
 I've enjoyed foiling so much, I treated myself to a MINC for Christmas, as I want to be able to use stamps for foiling, and didn't have a great deal of success with glues & the laminator. I wasn't going with the  Crafters Companion machine- I wasn't falling down that rabbit hole of having to buy special plates, when I have loads of stamps and dies.
 I tend to put my projects to be laminated inside a folded sheet of A3 drawing pad paper that I cut down to size. Sometimes, if you get problems, it can help to lay a sheet of cardstock under the project, inside the paper. Helps with mine, as it's really a basic laminator with just either on or off- no speed/extra heat settings.
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:01 PM   #5
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A note: 
Creative Visions sadly is closing shop. Therefore she is having a sale including on her 6 inch x 25 FEET of foil rolls. (regular-the special editions not on sale but still 25 feet) which makes it 50 cents a foot when they drop to 10 bucks a roll-best deal I have seen. So I got some. 

The sale builds-the more you spend kind of thing. 40% on the clear stamps and the red rubber also builds. It explains it all on the main page. 

This started as me watching the Nancy vids recommended b/c I wanted a particular one (which of course is now sold out). So I blame Cheryl. haha

What I learned is that we can use Ranger's texture paste translucent gloss as the adhesive...like if you are stenciling...and it is cheaper! yay! 

It seems to me that since we can use a number of adhesives for "cold" foiling like glue pens, DS tape, dots, sheets (for die cutting) all of which we simply burnish with our fingers...ANY foil can be used that way. Including the glimmer. Am I wrong? No, it wont impress it into the paper like the glimmer for the letterpress effect but it IS usable. So if there are colors we want...
I predict I am going to be a foiling fool. 
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:56 AM   #6
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Here’s a new little video from Taylor at Taylored Expressions using the new Deco Foil Transfer Gel Duo. “Duo” because it can be used in a laminator or cold. I like her rainbow foil. 

BTW, Tacky When Dry Medium from the Crafters Workshop (TCW) is another people use for cold foiling. I had heard of it, forgotten about it and then asked what was used in a Ken Oliver Creativation video and that was it. 

Foiling isn’t my jam but once in a blue moon I’d use it (maybe for a blue moon).

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Old 01-27-2020, 09:37 PM   #7
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Thanks Bjeans. I put that foil into my wishlist. I have passed on other rainbows but hers is different. Has those lines running through it that seem catch light. And for the other medium. 

BTW, I made up "cold" foiling because I didn't know what else to call it. 




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Old 01-28-2020, 07:15 AM   #8
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I have the Tacky When Dry medium and it works really nicely with the Spellbinders foil (which is a heat reactive foil). I used a palette knife to apply it through a stencil, let it dry, then laid foil over and ran it through my die cutting machine with the embossing pad for a little more cushion and push.

Heat reactive foils will also work with adhesives, just in case that wasn't mentioned above. I don't think they respond to toner.

Toner reactive foils will work with adhesives, but not heat. 
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:44 PM   #9
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I have done some experiments with hot foils. They need heat AND pressure to work. I heated up hotfoil stamps with a heat gun and ran them through a die cutting machine. I got good foiling. The only problem is hot foil ‘stamps’ (which are flat,solid metal images) are thicker than dies so you need to adjust your sandwich otherwise you tear your paper. Some people foil with their dies using the hot foil systems. You could heat your die with a heat gun and run it through your die cutting machine with a reduced sandwich. When you put a hot metal hotfoil stamp down onto your foil, you can adjust the position. It won’t transfer till you apply pressure.
I have also used the hot foils with glue and it is fine, but a bit patchy like the other foil.
I use heavy gel gloss medium for laminator foiling with Minc type foils. Gloss acrylic paints can also be used in a laminator to transfer foil. Matt paints don’t foil. You can do a background with matt paint, then stencil with heavy gel gloss and it only foils the gloss.

Last edited by Experimental; 01-28-2020 at 12:48 PM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #10
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Oh, very interesting about the gloss paints! I think most of what I have is matte, but I'll have to look and see. 
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:19 PM   #11
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I put a couple of examples in my gallery. Wherever heavy gel gloss medium was used you can try gloss acrylic with laminator and minc type foil. It doesn’t matter how you apply it. On the Xmas card it is just scraped on.
Dini, you mentioned in a post a few months ago about using embossing folders to apply the pressure with hotfoil. Have you got any tips on that? Or have you tried other things?
Also in the past I tried hotfoil in a laminator and it didn’t work well. That was before I realised there were different types of foil.

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Old 01-29-2020, 07:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimental View Post
I put a couple of examples in my gallery. Wherever heavy gel gloss medium was used you can try gloss acrylic with laminator and minc type foil. It doesn’t matter how you apply it. On the Xmas card it is just scraped on.
Dini, you mentioned in a post a few months ago about using embossing folders to apply the pressure with hotfoil. Have you got any tips on that? Or have you tried other things?
Also in the past I tried hotfoil in a laminator and it didn’t work well. That was before I realised there were different types of foil.

First of all, can I just say you rock! I'm off to visit your gallery in just a bit . . .

NancyStamps on youtube has a couple of videos where she tried foiling with embossing folders-she got it to work with a Spellbinders Glimmer machine in a recent one. She has also used the hotfoil (the type that doesn't work in a laminator) in a laminator with the toner sheets and gotten it to work; it's in one of her "foiling the waste" videos. Why it would work with the toner sheets and not with toner-printed images, I have no idea - but her videos are mostly "watch while I do it" and not edited later, so you get to see what worked and what didn't in pretty much real time, so I trust what she says.

I know I've recommended her videos here before - I'm not affiliated with her in any way, I just tend to trust what she's showing because she mostly buys her own supplies and isn't afraid to say if she thinks something doesn't work.
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:33 PM   #13
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Ok now we are getting into the nitty gritty which I really would love to do. 

Can we back up a minute to discuss the different types of foil? I know this is not a new subject in the world of cards but as I was saying, it is expanding right now. 

I tried to find a "foiling 101" on YT with no success where they address what is a hot foil and the other kinds...anyone know one? I think it would be great for beginning foilers. From there we could advance into the Nancy vids etc. I see a millions vids with foiling but it isn't the same. It is just generally you can get this effect with this technique, which I don't feel educates me about 1) what foils are, 2) how they work, and 3) the different kinds. From what I am reading here there seems to be hot foils-does that mean there are cold foils or just we have cold techniques we can use with a hot foil? I hope that made sense. 

Otherwise we are just kind of doing exactly what we are told in a vid without really understanding the product spectrum. 

ie: can we have a list of types of foil, and then we can maybe build a usage list for each kind? (like you can do cold foiling with types a, b but not c) Or a chart...

Being a beginner, I don't have that knowledge. Anyone? The more I read here, the more I realize I don't know. (even what I thought I did is now in play) 
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:02 PM   #14
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Here's a link to an article on scrapbook.com that's a good overview, at least to start: https://www.scrapbook.com/articles/crafting-with-foil
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Experimental View Post
I put a couple of examples in my gallery. Wherever heavy gel gloss medium was used you can try gloss acrylic with laminator and minc type foil. It doesn’t matter how you apply it. On the Xmas card it is just scraped on.
Dini, you mentioned in a post a few months ago about using embossing folders to apply the pressure with hotfoil. Have you got any tips on that? Or have you tried other things?
Also in the past I tried hotfoil in a laminator and it didn’t work well. That was before I realised there were different types of foil.
I kind of gave up because I wasn't able to get consistent results... and I also cooked one of my folders. 
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Here's a link to an article on scrapbook.com that's a good overview, at least to start: Crafting With Foil: The Only Guide You'll Ever Need

I have not finished it yet but this is looking like exactly what I wanted! Thank you SO much!!! I am printing it out even though I cant see the vids...I will also save it. Yay  
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:56 PM   #17
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I think the whole foiling thing would be benefitted by clear names for the 2 types of foil. Decofoil/ Minc uses a laminator/Minc machine usually to apply it but it isn’t hotfoil. How confusing is that! Any newbie will think laminators are hot so hotfoil must be the same as Decofoil. I found this very confusing at the beginning. If there were accepted, non-confusing labels it would be easier for all crafters. Could we set a convention? Since both work with heat, a name without hot would be better.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:17 PM   #18
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I think of them as heat-reactive and toner-reactive, but I'm not sure they're always labeled that way.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:36 PM   #19
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i've a minc and i love it, however, i do find a difference in the foils.  for me heidi swapp is too thin and is more finicky to use than deco foil or thermaweb.  just a heads up
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:26 PM   #20
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I agree! Sometimes the desire to be new and different can really muddy the waters of understanding. 

Nancy said she liked the Creative Visions foil because it is heavier and more durable. I cant testify myself, just saying. 
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:14 AM   #21
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I have saved the foil tutorial for when I have more time to read it.  I am confused.  I was gifted some foils that I thought were pressure to glue or something like that.  Never had a good result, as maybe they were not that material at all.  I do not want something I need yet another machine to use, so I may be purging foils in the near future.
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:04 AM   #22
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I have saved the foil tutorial for when I have more time to read it.  I am confused.  I was gifted some foils that I thought were pressure to glue or something like that.  Never had a good result, as maybe they were not that material at all.  I do not want something I need yet another machine to use, so I may be purging foils in the near future.

Try them with some double-sided tape - put the tape down on your surface, put the foil on top with the pretty side up, burnish it and lift the foil and see if it transfers. Both kinds should work that way (and you can cut shapes from scor-tape or stick-it sheets). With glue, you needs a glue that dries somewhat tacky. Mono Multi is one that works. Apply the glue and let it dry, then press the foil to it and burnish. If you try to apply it to wet glue, there isn't enough gription to pull the foil from the backing.

With the foils that work with toner and a laminator, the heat from the laminator doesn't activate the foil. It re-melts the toner (which is a super-fine plastic powder, somewhat similar to embossing powder) so the foil will stick. That's why it works better to let your piece cool off just a bit before you pull the foil away.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:49 AM   #23
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Thank you!  That was an extremely informative and easily understood description of the foils.  I will give them a try when we get back from our trip and report back.  I hope I have the glue type, as I don't have access to a laminator.
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