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ITA! Why don't demo's realize that convention buzz helps build excitement for their business??
What is SU hiding that everything must be so secretive...I am glad I am not associated with SU any longer as a demo. There was way too much demo vs. customer dynamic going on, which has sadly carried over to this site. It isn't a competition between demo's and customers and I don't think SU has yet to realize that...
I am glad that Daven and Tracy have allowed the forums to remain open to everyone...
My concern is not to keep convention "buzz" quiet, but to keep business information (number of demos, attendance, sales) confidential. I don't see it as a competition, but as part of running a business. Privately owned companies do not share their sales figures with the public at large, and they do not publicly announce what is happening ... unless they choose to through press releases.
That line between business and public seems to have gotten blurred here!
I think a reminder next year would be great and maybe subforums so that stuff with financial info, business info, and names of rewardees etc would pop up for demos only. General stuff and photos could be for everyone.
By the way, I appreciate that this website caters to demos, but I think it needs to be pointed out that this is not a demo only site, or a site that should be run in the best interest of demos only. We have SU to do that for us, and the SU demo site (however inclusive or lacking it is).
I am a former SU demo who is eligible to sign up again at any minute. I just need that extra push. That one little tidbit of something to kick me off the fence onto the demo wagon again...however... I keep getting comfortable on the customer side because of this cattiness and demo vs. customer battle that continues to wage.
I don't want to represent a company that condones this behavior by its representatives. Some of you keep saying (ie) what would SU think of this info being posted for public view. I ask, what would SU think of its demos being so hateful towards customers?
Its so sad that the backbone of a demos business (the customer) is such a thorn in some of your sides. I was disheartened when I was a demo to see how some demos on the 'demo side' talked of the 'other side'.
This site is a blessing and a gift to those who support it, use it, and contribute to it, demo and customer. Its getting tarnished a bit by this bitterness. I think the statement of the heart is for all, not just demos, but customers too...maybe we should all re read it.
As far as business info being shared to the general public... Some of the general public you speak of are future potential demos. Isn't that what SU teaches about recruiting? Your customers are your best recruits? I think its important for potential employees/contractors/representatives to understand how the system works from all angles, not just what the brochure says.
Daven, I say keep the convention info as it was this year. Its fun and motivating to see so many demos reporting FUN things!:mrgreen:
Chrissy, you said it sooo well, that there isn't much to add....so I will just add my weight to the "Open Arms, Hearts and Websites" side of all this. I think things have gotten Very nasty lately, Demos thinking they should be the only ones to see stuff, or the first to see it and then not share until a certain date....I am a demo w/ a very small friendly customer base and I tell them, my customer/friends, all the new and exciting news as soon as I can. They in turn get excited, which leads to present And future sales....I have had 2 people read the convention coverage this year and ask about it....leading to a great conversation about signing up.
I think we all need to remember that all it takes to be a demo is $200 and a desire to a part of it all...we demos are not "better" or "different" we just bought a Starter Kit...don't get me wrong, many Demos are Great salepeople, and use there Starter Kit to launch an impressive business, but just as many simply buy their own supplies and happily stamp at home alone.
I said I didn't have much to add....guess I was wrong :rolleyes:
In closing, Daven....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, this site is wonderful, and the beautiful samples, and friends I have met thru this site are priceless...and Stampin' Up! has made a LOT more $ off me and my friends because of this site and its resources!
however... I keep getting comfortable on the customer side because of this cattiness and demo vs. customer battle that continues to wage.
I don't want to represent a company that condones this behavior by its representatives. Some of you keep saying (ie) what would SU think of this info being posted for public view. I ask, what would SU think of its demos being so hateful towards customers?
Its so sad that the backbone of a demos business (the customer) is such a thorn in some of your sides. I was disheartened when I was a demo to see how some demos on the 'demo side' talked of the 'other side'.
This site is a blessing and a gift to those who support it, use it, and contribute to it, demo and customer. Its getting tarnished a bit by this bitterness. I think the statement of the heart is for all, not just demos, but customers too...maybe we should all re read it.
I am a former SU demo who is eligible to sign up again at any minute. I just need that extra push. That one little tidbit of something to kick me off the fence onto the demo wagon again...however... I keep getting comfortable on the customer side because of this cattiness and demo vs. customer battle that continues to wage.
I don't want to represent a company that condones this behavior by its representatives. Some of you keep saying (ie) what would SU think of this info being posted for public view. I ask, what would SU think of its demos being so hateful towards customers?
Its so sad that the backbone of a demos business (the customer) is such a thorn in some of your sides. I was disheartened when I was a demo to see how some demos on the 'demo side' talked of the 'other side'.
This site is a blessing and a gift to those who support it, use it, and contribute to it, demo and customer. Its getting tarnished a bit by this bitterness. I think the statement of the heart is for all, not just demos, but customers too...maybe we should all re read it.
As far as business info being shared to the general public... Some of the general public you speak of are future potential demos. Isn't that what SU teaches about recruiting? Your customers are your best recruits? I think its important for potential employees/contractors/representatives to understand how the system works from all angles, not just what the brochure says.
Daven, I say keep the convention info as it was this year. Its fun and motivating to see so many demos reporting FUN things!:mrgreen:
Chrissy, you said it sooo well, that there isn't much to add....so I will just add my weight to the "Open Arms, Hearts and Websites" side of all this. I think things have gotten Very nasty lately, Demos thinking they should be the only ones to see stuff, or the first to see it and then not share until a certain date....I am a demo w/ a very small friendly customer base and I tell them, my customer/friends, all the new and exciting news as soon as I can. They in turn get excited, which leads to present And future sales....I have had 2 people read the convention coverage this year and ask about it....leading to a great conversation about signing up.
I think we all need to remember that all it takes to be a demo is $200 and a desire to a part of it all...we demos are not "better" or "different" we just bought a Starter Kit...don't get me wrong, many Demos are Great salepeople, and use there Starter Kit to launch an impressive business, but just as many simply buy their own supplies and happily stamp at home alone.
I said I didn't have much to add....guess I was wrong :rolleyes:
In closing, Daven....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, this site is wonderful, and the beautiful samples, and friends I have met thru this site are priceless...and Stampin' Up! has made a LOT more $ off me and my friends because of this site and its resources!
ditto Rachel. I agree with this site becoming more nasty lately. I left Sudsol because of all the nastiness and I didn't want to pay for bunch of petty nasty posts filling up my inbox and I was so happy when I found this site because it was not like that, but lately I find SCS becoming more and more like SUDSOL without the yearly fee.
I totally agree with what Rachel said...Daven, PLEASE don't change a thing. This site is such a blessing and so is all the information I get and the friends I have made!
I've been reading and thinking about this thread since I made my first post and read some of the replies earlier this morning.
I don't care about who won what award or who made how much in the past year unless it has a direct impact on my relationship with the company. What I do care about a lot is how I've made to feel by the people representing the company. Right now I'm rather put off and disgusted by the behaviour I've seen and am seriously rethinking my involvement as a customer (Sorry you have to read it here Lesley).
I am here to have fun, to learn, to expand my creative abilities with my chosen medium (Rubberstamps). I don't like being left with a feeling of being unworthy.
Some people really should think about how all the cattyness and entitlement reflects on them as a demo and SU as the company they represent by being a demo.
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I am a former SU demo who is eligible to sign up again at any minute. I just need that extra push. That one little tidbit of something to kick me off the fence onto the demo wagon again...however... I keep getting comfortable on the customer side because of this cattiness and demo vs. customer battle that continues to wage.
I don't want to represent a company that condones this behavior by its representatives. Some of you keep saying (ie) what would SU think of this info being posted for public view. I ask, what would SU think of its demos being so hateful towards customers?
Its so sad that the backbone of a demos business (the customer) is such a thorn in some of your sides. I was disheartened when I was a demo to see how some demos on the 'demo side' talked of the 'other side'.
I've been reading most of the posts on both the demo and non-demo sides of the board over the past week and I haven't seen any hateful feelings towards customers! I'm a little surprised that you would say that. I've seen a lot of confusion and disagreement over the open forums, but NOWHERE have I seen anyone say anything that was negative or even remotely "hateful" about any of the customers and non-demos who have been posting/reading on the convention threads. Why would anyone blame customers for this? They don't control the site. It doesn't make any sense. I don't think there's been any hateful feelings at all towards anyone. There's been some confusion and some mixed feelings. I think some people are questioning the judgement of the site owners, but that would be it. Someone else had said that there has been a lot of negativity lately among demonstrators. This is true. There has been A LOT of change within the company this past year. Change can affect each person differently and negative feelings are perfectly normal. But I don't think the negativity has really been directed to anyone person or group of people.
I DO wonder what SU's feelings would be about this. I'm sure they don't mind us sharing our convention experiences with our customers but at the same time I'm sure they would hope that some of the information would be kept for demonstrators only. Maybe this is something that the site owners should check with DS about? While I agree it is their site and they can do whatever we want, this IS concerning a SU event and maybe SU needs to be the one to decide what type of info is ok or not ok to share.
I guess I don't understand what the issue is with having two forums. I think it would make things easier for everyone. Demonstrators know that they can go to one place to find the info they're looking for without having to sift through other non-business chit-chat they may not want to read. And non-demos could have a place where they can read about ideas, techniques and other stuff that was shared without having to sift through the business info that they don't have an interest in reading. It has been stated here several times by customers that they don't *want* to read the business stuff anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem then.
Since I'm not a demo anymore I can't speak for the demo side this week, but only from when I was on it. I've heard from other demo friends of the negativity of late and seen it eluded to in the open forum.
I'm not going to get into an argument or anything. I'm not attacking anyone specifically and I'm not really even attacking. This is just a subject that sticks in my craw...
I'm just saying that I think demos need to realize that some customers ARE interested in the business stuff and what goes on at convention as its a huge perk to being a demo. In no way does the coverage on SCS even come close to the actual experience of convention. I've been there and its just an awesome experience. Its a feeling...and yes, to a certain extent you want to sing camp songs...LOL!
Some customers are turned off to the cloud of secrecy that SOME, not all, demos try to exhibit. And, some demos, former demos, and customers are turned off to the air of elitism that surrounds SU in certain situations. Its not just SU and elitism I scorn, its elitism in nearly every facet...
What is important, however, is how it affect the SCS community as a whole. Unfortunately, when I see posts like this I feel like I'm being told "You aren't worthy. You are JUST a customer."
How terribly unfortunate considering I'm just a lowly customer supporting a demo or three and I've brought an entire group of people into the stamping world which only helps those demos out more....(eTA: when I quit being a demo they were all VERY happy when my customers started going to them...)
Its simply a matter of self control IMHO. If you don't want to read or be in the know, don't open the thread. Its pretty obvious what the titles are and they are divided pretty well in the forum listing. I don't agree with censorship of my television or radio programming by outside organizations, I certainly don't want my internet info censored either. If you don't want to read it, view it, listen to it, or watch it, turn it off.
:p
Edited to add: With regard to SCS checking with DS on what to include and not include, I would fear to be Daven. I'd never sleep...however, he and his team seem to do a great job keeping things on the level. When you start checking with SU on every little thing then you open a can of worms. I like the freedom we have to show things that aren't SU and be a premiere stamping site. If SU got too involved, that freedom would be lost.
thank you all for the input, I've read everything and will keep watching for more comments.
to me the important issue is NOT open or non-open convention-related forums. it's more about communicating, from us to you, which forums are open to all and which forums are demo only. we'll do a better job of that next time.
we've obviously missed the boat, this time around. however we decide to handle our SU! convention coverage next year, we'll definitely take into consideration all your thoughts, so thanks again for those.
as far as I'm concerned right now, SCS will always have convention forums that are open to all.
why is that? because it's the same way we operate any other time. we have forums that are open to all, and we have forums that are demo only. demos can make their own choices and judgements about what to share and what not to share in the "public" forum.
but it *is* our responsibility to make clear as much as possible, which forums are open to all and which are not.
and it has nothing to do with *secrecy*, I've said it before and I'll say it again - when it comes to secrecy, we're switzerland. we won't get between demos and customers and choose one over the other.
think of it this way. if we really wanted to, as a site, we could seek out and publish information on all kinds of fascinating stuff: corporate rumors, unreleased products, trade secrets or other confidential information. that would certainly bring in some traffic to SCS, would it not? but we DON'T seek out that kind of information, and we'll never take part in publishing it; it would be harmful to both the company and it's representatives.
on the other hand, we also won't conceal what amounts to public information on any company's behalf (something that's been announced to thousands of company representatives is pretty much public at that point). if SU! (or any other company of interest to our members) wants information concealed, that's their own prerogative (and responsibilty!) and none of our business.
we're here for everyone - demo and customer (or even non-customers!). to either 1) publish non-public information, or 2) censor public information, would, in effect, welcome one part of the community while shunning the other. we try not to do that.
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Last edited by splitcoaststampers; 07-17-2006 at 03:40 PM..
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I'll be fine whichever way the forums go, but this analogy just popped into my head:
If I go into my local stamping store and only one person is at the register and I say, "Where is everyone?" and Clyde says, "They're in an employee meeting in the the back to go over the figures and plan upcoming classes" would I be allowed to attend? What if I said, "I'm thinking about working here some day, so I think I'll just go sit in and see what they're talking about". Would that earn me a pass? Probably not. Does that mean that they don't value me as a customer or are hoping that I'll get P.O.'d and never enter their store again? Nope! Does it mean that the business owner needs that time to sit and talk frankly to her employees? Yep. Does that owner expect that the employees will leave the meeting and fire up their laptops and type verbatim what was said at the meeting, including the upcoming class descriptions AND the sales figures for the quarter AND why Joan was fired last month and send it out to the customer base so that they can feel "included" and "up to speed"? Maybe not.
Again, this idea just popped into my head as another way of looking at it. I don't hate customers (wish I had more!) and I don't know of any other demos who do, and a private conversation is not necessarily a sneaky hate-fest, sometimes it's just a "planning your upcoming strategy so that you look like you know what you're doing as a demo" forum.
Great example Misermom! It is a great way to look at it!
There's a reason why convention is a "demonstrator only" event, unlike regionals. I don't understand why customers or non-demos should feel offended about it. I love Longaberger baskets, but I don't expect for my consultant to share all the business strategies or facts and figures she learned at her convention with me. She's the consultant not me. I trust that she'll keep me informed about the stuff I *need* to know like upcoming sales, new products, etc.... I don't need to know all that other "stuff" and I'm not hurt or upset because she chooses not to share it with me.
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wow!!!
Well, I started this convention year off as a non-demo. I replied for pretty much the first time ever in a forum here during the session 1 week, that would be the spoiler room if your wondering. I got a reply back saying "if your not a demo then why are you in here", now at first I was PO'ed, hello I clicked on it, then I understood she comes in from a different place than me I guess so didn't know it was open, still a bit *offended* that I would be responded to in that way by a demo, it didn't keep me from continuing on. I have gotten FAR more positive replies from demo's and non-demos alike even a PM from Tracy. Which pretty much single handedly helped me decide to become a demo. I have sent off my paperwork just this morning.
When I first found SCS, I had no idea it was a SU demo site or not, it was just stampers and I was in heaven....to be surrounded by this many people who loved doing what I love doing was amazing and a bit overwhelming.
I went into the convention forums to get a feeling of what was going on and I did, just that, and I am so sure it isn't anywhere near as wonderful as it IRL.....but it helped me decide where I wanted to be after stampin for 11 yrs. I don't recall learning anything from those forums though that had anything to do with numbers that we as non-demo's would know what it was or care.....Just that the shilo had a power outage and someone named Jaron sings I think while demoing, (another surprise, first DAVEN is in here with all us and now another MAN in the SU community, see I wouldn't know this just looking at my catty).
I love this site, not because someone spilled the mini catty before my demo could tell me (hey I had my order ready before I could even order though, she liked that), not because I learned numbers that were or weren't down this year, not because its in Denver next year, and not because I learned way more about SPAM than I thought possible, but BECAUSE its a world of stamping, for stampers, by stampers to all who think they want to stamp who do stamp for a living or not for living.....
I don't think they should have to cater to us, about rather they should have made it more clear that it was open or not, or rather some have raw emotions. Its splitcoaststampers, I take that to mean each coast and all in the middle of the country and beyond, in some cases, of STAMPERS!!! plain and simple STAMPERS, now maybe stampers that are freaks, (I fall into that catagory) but stampers none the less.
Thanks DAVEN for listening to all our CRAP!!!
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Last edited by stampinchickadee; 07-20-2006 at 03:34 PM..
Since I started this thread, I thought I'd come back to it and give some more thoughts. SCS is a for profit entity and must make its decisions based on what is best for SCS -- how to get more traffic, thus more advertisers.
Upon reflection, I think the SCS has every right to have all the forums open to all -- it is really up to individuals to post information when and where they want to.
There used be an unwritten rule that in order to foster business relationships with their customers, demos did not post certain information in public forums -- not to keep things a secret, but to be polite to fellow demos. It was considered bad form -- like you were soliciting customers by being the demo in the know, etc. A lot of demos simply want to be able to be the first one to share information with their customers. As far as I am concerned, that unwritten rule is no longer in effect, and as a demo, I will feel comfortable sharing any information that I want to with anyone!
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