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Old 12-28-2009, 04:42 PM   #241
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is there butter on that pop corn? Can I have some?

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Old 12-28-2009, 04:43 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post
Nope, wrong again! This is déjà vu all over again. In the last thread, none of the SU Bashers could give links when asked to back their claims as there are NONE to be found! The Bashers are the ones doing the claiming of the CONSTANT shoving down the throats of others, so show it! No one can take seriously outlandish claims without being shown anything to back the claims up.

And that is basically how the other thread finally came to an end - when the actual proof of the outlandish claims could not be given, it finally died!

So finally we come full circle and to the same conclusion.
Well (I know you didn't ask me) I have to ask, how many threads are showing in this section that are just SU only type threads? Mini cats, In colors, IDA, should I be a demo, What colors go best together? etc. Now there are member company threads like that but no other company gets that sort of exclusivity service in this section repetitively for free.

Also I know one of the women that has already commented on this thread has written openly about how her stamping meet ups have changed since the IDA.

I can understand how people "in" with SU wouldn't feel that the repetitiveness of such chat is "shoving down the throat" however, when you haven't been invited to the party maybe its bad behavior for it to be flaunted. And not everyone on SCS has been invited to an SU party. So again we get to exclusivity/elitism issues for me anyway.

I don't have anything against SU. I am trying to see this from a neutral viewpoint as possible without having been involved in SU in any way shape of form.

So there are a couple of things to consider.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:43 PM   #243
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Nope, wrong again! This is déjà vu all over again. In the last thread, none of the SU Bashers could give links when asked to back their claims as there are NONE to be found! The Bashers are the ones doing the claiming of the CONSTANT shoving down the throats of others, so show it! No one can take seriously outlandish claims without being shown anything to back the claims up.

And that is basically how the other thread finally came to an end - when the actual proof of the outlandish claims could not be given, it finally died!

So finally we come full circle and to the same conclusion.
So tell me... if this is not going on why do so many people have the (same) perception that it is?
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:57 PM   #244
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So tell me... if this is not going on why do so many people have the (same) perception that it is?
Actually, I don't see that many making the claims. It seems to come up every couple weeks and there are just 2 or 3 that make the claim that the SU Cheerleaders are shoving SU down the throats of everyone.

I do not consider the popularity of any particular product or company and the number of postings about it as shoving anything. I have never felt that anyone was shoving nestabilties, cuttlebug, copic markers, bind-it-all, or any of the other many very popular products out there that get many threads posted about them.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:32 PM   #245
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yes but it does make for a fun read--doesn't it? pass the popcorn....
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:48 PM   #246
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Actually, I don't see that many making the claims. It seems to come up every couple weeks and there are just 2 or 3 that make the claim that the SU Cheerleaders are shoving SU down the throats of everyone.
Most likely because they don't want to be attacked. There are more than 3-4 people... this has been going on for years now and has involved more than 3-4 people.

Quote:
I do not consider the popularity of any particular product or company and the number of postings about it as shoving anything. I have never felt that anyone was shoving nestabilties, cuttlebug, copic markers, bind-it-all, or any of the other many very popular products out there that get many threads posted about them.
Kinda makes you wonder why these types of threads are always directed towards SU. It usually does not involve their products but rather their Demos pushing their products. I have never seen this happen on threads from any other company that has Demos that are members here.
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:51 PM   #247
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I agree that it IS happening and has been happening for years here, to the point of running people off the board who make any disparaging remarks about SU. It is a long history here and I have read it for years and it has colored me toward SU.
For years? Are you confused? You joined on 9-03-09 and on that same day made your very first post bashing SU. Hmm...
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:15 PM   #248
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For years? Are you confused? You joined on 9-03-09 and on that same day made your very first post bashing SU. Hmm...
Maybe she was a member but felt the need to change her username. Lord knows the Cheerleaders set their sights on anyone that dare disagree with them or call them out.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:40 PM   #249
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C'mon, everyone. This is a friendly discussion community, and every poster here's entitled to their own opinion. . .whether they've been here an hour or since day one. If you don't agree with something, tell us why, and do it respectfully. Let's not resort to back and forth bickering, okay? If you want to carry on, please keep that in mind.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:06 PM   #250
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Thank you, Jenn, for this reminder! This constant 'stewing' on this thread is so immature!
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:08 PM   #251
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But, there was not one good thing on tv tonight. I do like a lively discussion!
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:18 PM   #252
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Is this Current Events, or what?!
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:26 PM   #253
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I have to say that my demo is great, and states what SHE loves about SU, but does not refuse other products at her camps (I hope that wouldn't get her into trouble!! I thought the new IDA was a bit TOO strict, personally, for those who were already in another business that didn't compete with SU until SU added another branch of products ahem). It probably wouldn't be in good taste to bring other stamps in, unless it's a particular sentiment or something like that.

Can we all just admit that there are 2 sides to every coin? Perhaps the people who are saying that SU tends to be pushy have really experienced that from others--whether intentional or not, or whether the other person was even aware that they seemed pushy. Perhaps they are sensitive and feel pressured when there is no need to feel that way. I have to agree with the idea that the company sets the tone, though--no matter where you work, this is largely true, though there are always individuals that put their own spin on things also.
Chances are, being humans, there are some SU demos who cannot stand to hear any criticism and tend to post defensively in threads. Chances are, there are also some individuals who take things too personally.

It certainly is more difficult to read tone online than in person--probably the best thing to do is to ASK the person if they meant it the way it sounded, and BELIEVE them if they say it wasn't!
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:49 PM   #254
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Just an FYI, now that I have finished cleaning out my gallery and all my PMs etc.

Here's at least one person who is leaving with a very sour taste, due to mob mentality and behavior, and who will never again purchase anything from SU due specifically to the behavior of the cheerleaders here.

Since joining SCS my SU purchases have steadily decreased, all due to disgust with the attitudes shown here. I cannot like a product when it is, indeed, rammed and shoved down people's throats. I cannot use a product when even looking at it reminds me of the nasty, pompous and pretentious displays by those who push that product.

Those who were determined to "take back these boards" have certainly succeeded in at least one way- they have made it a place that I no longer want to be any part of.

I stayed away for a few days, and came back to not only this thread, but also to another "SU is so wonderful" thread that included a gleeful announcement that "This is becoming the battle of the threads!!!".

So, while I know that no one will care that I am leaving, and SU won't miss my little bit of money (which has, as I said, gotten littler each year I was here), at least the ones here who claim that there really aren't that many of us fed up will have to add one more to the "just 2 or 3" that they grudgingly admit.

And, just a parting thought: take back the boards, make this ALL SU ALL THE TIME and I don't think either SCS or SU will thank you.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:09 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by missiowa81 View Post
Too Funny!
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:11 PM   #256
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Pass the popcorn please.

I have my own opinions but they are the same ones as another poster on here. I am enjoying reading her posts as they could be written right out of my head. LMAO.....

Interesting how so many people have the same opinions of SU on both sides of the sidelines.....hehehehe get it....sidelines.

Okay must be slap happy.....
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:40 PM   #257
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Thanks Jenn, for stepping in. I appreciate it.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:57 PM   #258
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Here’s an excerpt from a recent thread. It was a thread started at Jenn Balcer’s suggestion by a SU fan who wanted to talk about SU products. Jenn told her to feel free to start a thread about SU products and she’d find people who wanted to participate. This is the thread:
http:////www.splitcoaststampers.com/...d.php?t=461629
Then, as just about always, non-SU fans started in. Below is just one of the posts and Jenn’s response to it. (It’s on page 3 if you want to look for it)

< Originally Posted by tchk
What I said was very simple- SU has no role anymore at SCS. SU people can have their own SUO place whenever SU provides it for them. SCS is not only not obligated to provide it for them, it would be blatantly unfair to the member companies who pay to support SCS if they did provide it. >>

Ah, but SU! has had and does have a role here! Have you ever read the history of Splitcoast? Check it out here,
and here, and here, and here. This part, especially,
Quote:
Will anybody care about Stampin' Up! demos anymore?
Most certainly! SU! demos and customers will always have a home at Splitcoast. Always. We grew as a community in the early days for one reason: you loved what you found here, and you told your friends. We've changed over the last 5 years in many ways, but in other ways the only thing that's different is the date on the calendar. SU! is resident in our DNA here at Splitcoast, plain and simple. Thank you so much for your years of loyalty and support for Splitcoast.
Hope that helps.
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I did add emphasis in the last paragraph.

Yes, there are frequent threads about Stampin’ Up! products. There are tons and tons of people that have belonged to SCS for years that came here because of their love of SU products. They didn’t just up and leave because SCS changed. They made room for other companies, welcomed them, even, and accepted. But there’s no reason they should be treated as 2nd class citizens, either. If you don’t want to read about SU anything, then don’t. I don’t have any difficulty avoiding threads where I have no interest. There are several forums I don’t frequent because I don’t really see the need to participate. Just not my thing, kwim? So why is it you can’t do the same thing?

We are ALL entitled to talk about the products we like and use. If I say I like SU cardstock, how is that a slam against whatever cardstock you use? I’m not going to get all fluffed up if you enthuse about CTMH stuff, for pete’s sake! Why would I? Still, I think while it’s one thing to offer opinions about what products we DO like, it’s quite another to rip into a company’s reputation, or style or morals. I can’t help but reflect that if this had been the same discussion about any other company than SU, it wouldn’t have been allowed to go into EIGHT pages before a mod posted. This thread simply doesn’t seem to honor the TOS here. SCS is supposed to be a positive place. For everybody.
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:33 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by MSBetsyZ View Post
Here’s an excerpt from a recent thread. It was a thread started at Jenn Balcer’s suggestion by a SU fan who wanted to talk about SU products. Jenn told her to feel free to start a thread about SU products and she’d find people who wanted to participate. This is the thread:
http:////www.splitcoaststampers.com/...d.php?t=461629
Then, as just about always, non-SU fans started in.
Sorry Betsy, but I only got this far in your post before a WTHeck hit my head. Do you really not see it? If you start a discussion of a product of anyone's on an all comers message board then you have to be prepared for the good, the bad and the downright ugly. Its downright elitist expecting favoritism in moderation. Demos already have their own section that doesn't interact with the masses - oh elitism again rearing its ugly head.

Again if SU and their demos don't see the favorable treatment and clique-y mentality then maybe its time for the parent (in this case SCS) to take away a few of their priviledges. As the saying goes, you don't know what you got 'til its gone.

FTR I agree there are extreme people on both sides of this discussion. However I have the feeling that many people only see the extremes as one sided and that is dependent on where they see their loyalty. That's a shame IMHO. There is no need for divisiveness over paper products.

ETA - I have just read this and I don't intend for this to sound as "attacking SU" as it may come off - I would say this if I saw any other company receive all the perks and still expect more.
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:36 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by nottoocreative View Post
I have to say that my demo is great, and states what SHE loves about SU, but does not refuse other products at her camps (I hope that wouldn't get her into trouble!! I thought the new IDA was a bit TOO strict, personally, for those who were already in another business that didn't compete with SU until SU added another branch of products ahem). It probably wouldn't be in good taste to bring other stamps in, unless it's a particular sentiment or something like that.

Can we all just admit that there are 2 sides to every coin? Perhaps the people who are saying that SU tends to be pushy have really experienced that from others--whether intentional or not, or whether the other person was even aware that they seemed pushy. Perhaps they are sensitive and feel pressured when there is no need to feel that way. I have to agree with the idea that the company sets the tone, though--no matter where you work, this is largely true, though there are always individuals that put their own spin on things also.
Chances are, being humans, there are some SU demos who cannot stand to hear any criticism and tend to post defensively in threads. Chances are, there are also some individuals who take things too personally.

It certainly is more difficult to read tone online than in person--probably the best thing to do is to ASK the person if they meant it the way it sounded, and BELIEVE them if they say it wasn't!
Excellent post Lynn!
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:51 AM   #261
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Excellent post Lynn!
Thanks, I learned a bit from CE
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:01 AM   #262
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Why would SCS take away privileges? According to Jenn Balcer's quote which Betsy quoted, SU is a big huge part of SCS, both why and how it started and how it is today. So it's ok to them that SU may get more attention than other companies.

I obviously don't read many threads here because I don't see the cheerleading and bashing that others are talking about. Only in threads like this or like the one Betsy linked.
Why?
Because they are the only company that don't pay for their privileges.
Why?
Because SU loyalists do overtly promote their product for free on the board and many of their demos or their demos with loyal followers insist on making disparaging remarks about products and people that aren't SU.
Why?
Because sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until you don't have it anymore and there a significant number of SU only type posts and yet that still doesn't seem to be enough to placate those that insist on SU only.

Honestly - if people want SU only, make a board that is SU only and compete with SCS. Obviously that is how SCS started and those in charge didn't see the viability in continuing on that course. So why are those that want SU only allowed to continue to question SCS's decision to allow all? I think it is because SCS is run by genuinely nice people who want everyone to get along but that doesn't mean that if one group is acting naughtily that they shouldn't be sanctioned.

At times its like the eldest child of a family continuing to act and expect to be treated as an only child. The game has changed so its time to get with the program and deal with it.
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Old 12-29-2009, 11:19 AM   #263
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When I was a kid, a troll was something that lived under a bridge and would/could grab you when you crossed the bridge.
We also had toy trolls or dammits.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:00 PM   #264
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I haven't noticed anyone questioning SCS's decision to allow all. I thought the beef was that SU got more attention, which is something that SCS doesn't mind. So they would not take away privileges for it. SCS doesn't ask for demos to pay to promote SU (in general-I believe that other than signature lines they aren't really allowed to promote their own business specifically). That isn't the demos' fault. I don't see the disparaging remarks all that much unless someone asks for an opinion about a product-and the answer doesn't always have anything to do with SU at all but that person's opinion. I happen to not like CTMH paper because I prefer a solid core-does that mean I'm bashing them?? I don't like their stamps all that much either because I prefer rubber. So am I bashing?

I didn't realize anyone here wanted SU only. Can you send me links when you see posts like that because I honestly haven't seen any.
I don't think I mentioned bashing. I mentioned that there are those with an attitude of taking the boards back for SU - I'm sure if you do a thread search you will find the relevant threads and offenders. I have always found your posts very helpful about what you like and dislike in any product. However many people don't offer any more than this product is the best or that product is awful type comments. Maybe we can develop a ratings system like Amazon and people can vote on helpful each review is

I mentioned that SCS DOES treat SU favorably and that that good will by SCS seems to be a license for a few to push an agenda. I think the beef is that SCS doesn't mind SU having the attention but that some people take it too far and don't seem to be thankful for the platform they have and want more.

I think the majority of demos only promote in their signature line. However there are those that at any opening promote SU as the answer to the question whether it is relevant or not. I know there was a thread posted recently where the OP actually stated they were looking for non-SU and there were still a couple of post recommending SU products.

I commend SCS because except for the occasional SU favoritism type threads (of which this is one) pretty much everyone can discuss freely what they use and why and there have been some awesome adhesive and cardstock discussions as well as the effects of humidity. I wish SU and every stamp company all the best in this economy. I think constructive criticism is a good thing hopefully have justified why I think there are issues. Truthfully, I don't think those loyal to one side or the other can "see" the issues objectively. I have no malice nor ill-will toward any representative of their company and I hope that persons that represent their company realize that it would be better to be inclusive rather exclusive at some point in their future.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:08 PM   #265
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Dont remember where the troll identity came up was not sure if somone was calling me a troll or a doll of a guy but anyhow since the thread got hot and i mean hot the moderator came and gave it a light misting with duck wine water in the UK just to cool thingdown a little.
well i remember the trolls from my childhood days im sure we all remember Whos That Tapping Over My bridge the story about the Troll , oh me sorry Mr troll or is it Mrs or Miss troll well what do you want and if you dont move i shall eat you up all in one gobble.
well i had to do something so being so Always Artichoking i stopped feeling Bashful Blue and offered some Certainly celery. The troll looked disgusted so i the asked would you like an Elegant eggplant or maybe a garden whats green, or better still a nice Marigold morning to plant. By this time the trolls eyes were getting like fire and so i had to act quickly sorry troll pardon the expression but i dont know whether you are a Mr or Mrs Or Miss i suppose all trolls look the same ugly but never fear because to make you beautiful ill get you the Perfect plum and a barely ripe Banana or maybe Regal Rose or just some of my Pumpkin pie.
the troll was totally not amused so i decide time was runingout i must get off this bridge so with a thought in mind i headed off the bridge to the Cool carribean.


For those who have a sense of humour this is for you, but the ones who find this a bit like melon mambo then nevermind you can always make a Crushed curry.
Gladto bring a bit of light enetertainement but no stamping im afraid.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:19 PM   #266
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You are very punny!!!
I think trolls are asexual. They certainly are flashers. I have one that has everything but pants.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:38 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by andrew overton View Post
Dont remember where the troll identity came up was not sure if somone was calling me a troll or a doll of a guy but anyhow since the thread got hot and i mean hot the moderator came and gave it a light misting with duck wine water in the UK just to cool thingdown a little.
well i remember the trolls from my childhood days im sure we all remember Whos That Tapping Over My bridge the story about the Troll , oh me sorry Mr troll or is it Mrs or Miss troll well what do you want and if you dont move i shall eat you up all in one gobble.
well i had to do something so being so Always Artichoking i stopped feeling Bashful Blue and offered some Certainly celery. The troll looked disgusted so i the asked would you like an Elegant eggplant or maybe a garden whats green, or better still a nice Marigold morning to plant. By this time the trolls eyes were getting like fire and so i had to act quickly sorry troll pardon the expression but i dont know whether you are a Mr or Mrs Or Miss i suppose all trolls look the same ugly but never fear because to make you beautiful ill get you the Perfect plum and a barely ripe Banana or maybe Regal Rose or just some of my Pumpkin pie.
the troll was totally not amused so i decide time was runingout i must get off this bridge so with a thought in mind i headed off the bridge to the Cool carribean.


For those who have a sense of humour this is for you, but the ones who find this a bit like melon mambo then nevermind you can always make a Crushed curry.
Gladto bring a bit of light enetertainement but no stamping im afraid.
Funny! What's duck wine water?
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:45 PM   #268
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That is not what I am talking about here and you know it. Nope, if I had understood I wouldn't have asked. It is like you open a box of cookies and decide that this is the best cookie you have ever eaten and you must stop anyone looking at any other brand of cookie... stopping someone on a park and telling them you cookie is better than theirs, or in the lunchroom, or the cookie isle in the grocery store. I may actually be willing to try your cookies if you would just back off a bit on the subject.

I don't ignore this group because I enjoy reading their posts when they are not ganging up on people
So you're trying to alter their behaviour because it is annoying to you? Even if they aren't interested in changing?
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:19 PM   #269
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Denise duck Wine in the UK is a joke name for tap water
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:48 PM   #270
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Denise duck Wine in the UK is a joke name for tap water
Got it! Thanks!
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:51 PM   #271
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Denise duck Wine in the UK is a joke name for tap water
forget the Duck wine, I'm already on the Baileys.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:16 PM   #272
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if you are unhappy with your Demo, find another.
if you are unhappy with SU, find another company.

seems simple enough to me.

For example, if i don't like a food, i don't eat it. If someone else enjoys it, I'm not gonna say 'EEEeeew, how could you like THAT? Why would that be your favorite food, if it isn't mine?' I just figure w all have different tastes....
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:24 PM   #273
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I don't think I mentioned bashing. I mentioned that there are those with an attitude of taking the boards back for SU - I'm sure if you do a thread search you will find the relevant threads and offenders. I have always found your posts very helpful about what you like and dislike in any product. However many people don't offer any more than this product is the best or that product is awful type comments. Maybe we can develop a ratings system like Amazon and people can vote on helpful each review is

I mentioned that SCS DOES treat SU favorably and that that good will by SCS seems to be a license for a few to push an agenda. I think the beef is that SCS doesn't mind SU having the attention but that some people take it too far and don't seem to be thankful for the platform they have and want more.

I think the majority of demos only promote in their signature line. However there are those that at any opening promote SU as the answer to the question whether it is relevant or not. I know there was a thread posted recently where the OP actually stated they were looking for non-SU and there were still a couple of post recommending SU products.

I commend SCS because except for the occasional SU favoritism type threads (of which this is one) pretty much everyone can discuss freely what they use and why and there have been some awesome adhesive and cardstock discussions as well as the effects of humidity. I wish SU and every stamp company all the best in this economy. I think constructive criticism is a good thing hopefully have justified why I think there are issues. Truthfully, I don't think those loyal to one side or the other can "see" the issues objectively. I have no malice nor ill-will toward any representative of their company and I hope that persons that represent their company realize that it would be better to be inclusive rather exclusive at some point in their future.
I tend to agree with what you've said here! I am an SU lover but I personally don't care for the "take the boards back" type mentality. I lvoe SCS's diversity which has taught me soooooooooo much as both a demo and stamper. I like this place the way it is.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:44 PM   #274
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I really am confused by some peoples ideas that SU demos should leave these boards. Are you really going to tell the people who built this sight and made it so popular to begin with that they should now leave???

So SU demos built a great site that attracted a lot of other stampers so now they should be forced to leave???

And have some of you ever considered that most demos "gush" over the SU products because they really do love them. And maybe that is why they are a demo!!! It's not just trying to push it down your throat.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:52 PM   #275
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Oh dear the story of the troll, maybe thinking from the Cool Carribean i should have offered the troll some Dazzling diamonds but on second thoughts maybe, more mustard would be apropriate.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:06 PM   #276
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this thread is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo amusing. I cannot believe I keep coming back to see what the latest dirt is! I love SU products, I love SCS, I love Gina K products, I use my Scor-Pal on every single card, and I buy way too many products that are recommended by others. That is why I have SCS as my homepage and go through withdrawl if I am not on it daily. Am I sick? I guess some who have posted in this thread would say yes! But, it is what it is and I am who I am--as I sit here with a grin on my face!
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:32 PM   #277
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forget the Duck wine, I'm already on the Baileys.
Brendan's with a shot of Butterscotch schnapps or Cask and Cream Caramel.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:55 PM   #278
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this thread is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo amusing.
I totally agree, even though I'm embarrassed that the stamping drama reels me in as easily as the Bachelorette does. LOVE that avatar with the popcorn eating smiley -- need that one for the drama at work.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:21 PM   #279
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I think if SU paid their demos more they wouldn't have have to act so desperate to get sales. This all comes down to money. I love certain products but I don't shout it to the world and defend them with my life. On the other hand, if my living were made off those products I would be hawking them in any way I had to to survive. There are other direct line companies that offer 30-50% plus wholesale on any demonstration products. Not sure if there are any stamp companies that are that generous, but certainly some direct sales companies treat their front line people well.
As you said, it comes down to money.

The companies that pay their workers more are not giving up their profit, they are charging more for product.

SU! has priced itself where it feels it's competitive, and if they were to give demos more, they'd have to raise their prices.

I personally still don't see people "desperate" to get sales. I see enthusiasm, a lot of it, because - well, because since SCS was started for SU! people, it has way more SU! people than anything else.

I can understand people who hate SU! not wanting to stay at SCS, it would probably be annoying after awhile.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:46 PM   #280
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i agree
if you don't like SU don't buy it!
why is it you care how much of a profit i get from being a demo......i don't obviously, since i'm a hobby demo......BUT EITHER WAY, I HAVE GOTTEN SOOOOO MUCH MORE
FROM SU THE COMPANY, MY DEMO, OTHER DEMOS I'VE MET, SU CUSTOMER SERVICE, THE SEATTLE REGIONAL CONVENTION LAST SPRING AND SCS AND ALL I'VE LEARNED!
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