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Old 12-23-2009, 02:51 PM   #81
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I was just stating my opinion.. no need to get defensive.

The event I am talking about is monthly stamp club that is non-SU... it is just about stamping for fun and sharing ideas. The problem is that one of the Demos brings all her SU stuff and keeps trying to demo it. Most of the members have attended her stamp camps at one time or another so why the need to try and sell it again at stamp club? No one else does this.

As for the Scor-Pal... you really should check one out. It is a fantastic tool and SO much easier than using the old scoring blade in the trimmer.

My Demo's (there are two that work together) say to bring scissors, adhesive, and "anything you would normally use when you stamp". They used to supply everything but that was a -long- time ago. With the new SU policy I won't be attending any more stamp camps if I can only use SU adhesives, etc. Besides, I am not learning anything new (or that I can't find a tutorial for on the internet) and there are no stamps I really like/need so why waste the money?
I'm sorry in your OP it was not obvious that this "event" was a group of people getting together to stamp. Have you or anyone else told her it's not the time or place for that?

As for feeling defensive you basically said that my selling to you while you are at my event is unethical because it's not your desire to buy. At least that's what I took from it. But obviously the place where your demo is attempting to garner sales is not her event and I agree it is rather pushy.

I still don't understand a demo asking a guest to bring things that we as demos should be showing and selling. But I think the confusion is what everyone is calling the events. Your idea of a stamp camp might be to get people together to stamp and maybe someone will place an order. My idea of a stamp camp is an event that people register and pay for where I provide ideas, supplies, projects, prizes, fun, snacks, information and take orders.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:02 PM   #82
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Don't underestimate your fellow crafters -- I think we pretty much all know what's sold at the LSS, M's, etc. as well as appearing in the SU! catalog, KWIM? When I was a customer, I used to purchase that stuff from my demo (now my wonderful upline!) anyway, because I wanted to support her business. We've since become great friends.

Since when did sound business practice become an issue of morals/ethics? If you really want to go down that road, wouldn't it be unethical of me as a demonstrator to violate the agreement I signed four years ago agreeing not to demonstrate competitors' products during my events? I don't ever say that adhesives, trimmers, or die-cutting supplies can only be bought through SU! because obviously that's just not true. However, I am not going to actively steer people elsewhere, either. I just present the products and let them decide whether or not they want to order them from me. Most of the time, they do!
The people I was referring to are brand-new-to-stamping folks. Most people start out stamping with SU or another Demo-based company. I know when I first started I was overwhelmed with what I needed to get. I bought many things through SU that after looking around found were much lower priced at Michael's or Joann's. It made me feel like I was taken advantage of. I do realize the Demos job is to sell but where do you draw the line with this type of sales? I know I would feel guilty doing that to a newby stamper.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #83
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when I worked at Starbucks, we used to say "would you like a muffin with your latte?'.... we DID NOT say 'Dunkin Donuts up the block has a muffin for forty cents less'. why would I send someone to the competing store by telling them it was cheaper? from a business perspective, that is crazy!
And from a buyers perspective it is less-than-honest... but that is my opinion.

What really surprises me about this whole discussion is that rather than LISTENING to what unhappy customers are saying the Demo's are spending their time defending their businesses. You would think that they would listen and try to learn why customers are unhappy.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:17 PM   #84
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I still don't understand a demo asking a guest to bring things that we as demos should be showing and selling. But I think the confusion is what everyone is calling the events. Your idea of a stamp camp might be to get people together to stamp and maybe someone will place an order. My idea of a stamp camp is an event that people register and pay for where I provide ideas, supplies, projects, prizes, fun, snacks, information and take orders.
They are the same as you posted... only my Demos call them Marathons. They used to provide snacks/a light lunch but now are only offering to buy a soda. If you want to eat anything you have to get there before the stamping starts and get your own food. Unfortunately, these Marathons run right through lunch (11-3). While it is not the Demo's job to make sure everyone is fed it is always nice to have a small snack (ie crackers and cheese or something) to get you through the Marathon.

Last edited by Cinnistew; 12-23-2009 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:18 PM   #85
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And from a buyers perspective it is less-than-honest... but that is my opinion.

What really surprises me about this whole discussion is that rather than LISTENING to what unhappy customers are saying the Demo's are spending their time defending their businesses. You would think that they would listen and try to learn why customers are unhappy.
I'm sorry you feel it's not honest for us sell the products that we chose to sell. If you have to go to a wedding and go to a store and buy a dress you are happy with for a week then see something you like just the same that is cheaper at another store how is it the first's stores fault? You went there, tried it on, thought about it, maybe even got a second opinion and bought it. Where is the dishonesty?

I have never been to or run a workshop where I didn't allow people to leave without buying, nor do I charge them a fee to come to the WS. I'm sorry I just don't see where you are coming from.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:21 PM   #86
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Cinnistew
well for one your name makes me want spiced cider LOL and two it seems like your demo isn't a good fit for you any more. People can grow out of their demos just like hairstylists...say it ain't so! I hope that you do find the happy medium that you want with customer service and products. I know it's out there for you.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:25 PM   #87
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Yeah, I am one of those "Cheerleaders", I am not a demo yet, but love Stampin up!
That is the fun of stamping... being able to find what you like and using it!

Best of luck when you start your business.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:30 PM   #88
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And from a buyers perspective it is less-than-honest... but that is my opinion.

What really surprises me about this whole discussion is that rather than LISTENING to what unhappy customers are saying the Demo's are spending their time defending their businesses. You would think that they would listen and try to learn why customers are unhappy.
I think part of the unhappiness comes from the fact that we are all independent demonstrators and choose to run our businesses differently. I have seen many posts from folks who for whatever reason change demonstrators, and are upset that the new person doesn't do things the way their other demo did. Some demos give away lots of freebies and don't charge their customers for shipping, while many others can't afford to do that. Then the customer comes on here and vents about it, and five different SCS members tell them they need to drop this demo and find a new one, stat. How do you think that makes the demos who can't afford to buy and hand out six cases of catalogs or give away half their commission feel?

As a brand-new stamper, I did know that local craft stores offered many of the same products that were in the SU! catalog. Did it make me think any less of my demo for trying to sell me stuff from the company that she represented? Not at all, and I'd never insult her by calling her actions amoral or unethical.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:41 PM   #89
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I'm sorry you feel it's not honest for us sell the products that we chose to sell. If you have to go to a wedding and go to a store and buy a dress you are happy with for a week then see something you like just the same that is cheaper at another store how is it the first's stores fault? You went there, tried it on, thought about it, maybe even got a second opinion and bought it. Where is the dishonesty?
But we aren't talking about dresses... we are taking about stamping products and people's money. I am less likely to buy from a Demo that tells me (for example) the SU bone folder is the best bone folder in the world and then go into a chain store and find a similar bone folder for less money that I can save 40% on using a coupon and there is no difference in the two bone folders. I am talking about newby stampers... not the more experienced ones.

If a more-experienced stamper wants to buy only SU then that is entirely their choice. I know I was SO overwhelmed when I started stamping and since I knew nothing about the tools involved with stamping I made some mistakes where I could have saved a lot of money that I could have used to buy stamps and paper. You are going to make a lot more commission on stamps and paper than bone folders.

Guess we are just looking at this from different ends of the spectrum... buyer and seller.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:49 PM   #90
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Well as much as it's "my bad" for a demo to tell you something is the best in the world isn't it just as much "your bad" for believing it and not shopping around?

Lying about a products capabilities is not the same as touting it's abilities and offering it for sale. In keeping with the bone folder theme...if $7 seemed steep to you (and trust me I've been in that boat plenty of times) it's your responsibility to react accordingly. Shop around. Even as a demo with my discount I don't buy everything SU. And speaking personally if I know a client well enough to know their situation I can give them the most bang for their buck so to speak. But sales people can't help you with your budget if they don't know it.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:54 PM   #91
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It's interesting to see SU blamed for lousy demos. But hey my original demo was ... well, let's just say that since I've signed up (six years ago), I haven't contacted her.

Demos CAN talk about SCS, but I know some demos don't because they want their customers to think they came up with all the ideas themself.

LOL

I have two friends I stamp with and after we do cards, I'll actually send them a link to the card(s) that inspired me - on SCS!!!!

So yeah everyone is different. I don't "get" keeping SCS a secret but ... *shrugs*
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:54 PM   #92
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I think part of the unhappiness comes from the fact that we are all independent demonstrators and choose to run our businesses differently. I have seen many posts from folks who for whatever reason change demonstrators, and are upset that the new person doesn't do things the way their other demo did. Some demos give away lots of freebies and don't charge their customers for shipping, while many others can't afford to do that. Then the customer comes on here and vents about it, and five different SCS members tell them they need to drop this demo and find a new one, stat. How do you think that makes the demos who can't afford to buy and hand out six cases of catalogs or give away half their commission feel?

As a brand-new stamper, I did know that local craft stores offered many of the same products that were in the SU! catalog. Did it make me think any less of my demo for trying to sell me stuff from the company that she represented? Not at all, and I'd never insult her by calling her actions amoral or unethical.
Your first paragraph is something that should be addressed by Stampin Up. Personally, I genuinely like my Demo but I just think I have outgrown SU. Their product just does not excite me anymore like it used to. I have discovered too many great products out there that I prefer.

I never expect free anything when I place an order. I usually get a free catty because in the previous two cattys (since 2007) I purchased a lot of product because my neighbor caught my house on fire and my insurance replaced a lot of my stuff. One of my orders was over $700. I do always offer to pay for the catty though.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:56 PM   #93
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Your first paragraph is something that should be addressed by Stampin Up. Personally, I genuinely like my Demo but I just think I have outgrown SU. Their product just does not excite me anymore like it used to. I have discovered too many great products out there that I prefer.

I never expect free anything when I place an order. I usually get a free catty because in the previous two cattys (since 2007) I purchased a lot of product because my neighbor caught my house on fire and my insurance replaced a lot of my stuff. One of my orders was over $700. I do always offer to pay for the catty though.
But the whole point is, everyone runs their business differently.

I just got an email from my PChef lady. She's a few hundred away from a huge trip and is offering half price on any item (even pots and pans) if you spend just $50 before Dec. 31. That's HER prerogative. You won't see all the PC ladies doing that. She has a business goal.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:57 PM   #94
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Well as much as it's "my bad" for a demo to tell you something is the best in the world isn't it just as much "your bad" for believing it and not shopping around?

Lying about a products capabilities is not the same as touting it's abilities and offering it for sale. In keeping with the bone folder theme...if $7 seemed steep to you (and trust me I've been in that boat plenty of times) it's your responsibility to react accordingly. Shop around. Even as a demo with my discount I don't buy everything SU. And speaking personally if I know a client well enough to know their situation I can give them the most bang for their buck so to speak. But sales people can't help you with your budget if they don't know it.
Ahhh but SU does... they infer they are the best. Look at the website about going UM... sorry but I have never seen any difference in UM stamps from one company to another oter than teh etching on the rubber. SU had to claim "they had to do research, etc.". Pulease... it is a rubber stamp on some type of EZ Mount. *rolling eyes*
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:01 PM   #95
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It's interesting to see SU blamed for lousy demos. But hey my original demo was ... well, let's just say that since I've signed up (six years ago), I haven't contacted her.

Demos CAN talk about SCS, but I know some demos don't because they want their customers to think they came up with all the ideas themself.

LOL

I have two friends I stamp with and after we do cards, I'll actually send them a link to the card(s) that inspired me - on SCS!!!!

So yeah everyone is different. I don't "get" keeping SCS a secret but ... *shrugs*
If you post was directed at me I never blamed SU for lousy (your words) Demos... they do that all on their own and I am sure there are just as many awesome Demos as their are lousy ones. I said I didn't like pushy sales people (for any product) and their product just didn't appeal to me any longer.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:03 PM   #96
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Do you have a twin brother by the name of Andrew, Mr TellsAll?
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:06 PM   #97
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But the whole point is, everyone runs their business differently.

I just got an email from my PChef lady. She's a few hundred away from a huge trip and is offering half price on any item (even pots and pans) if you spend just $50 before Dec. 31. That's HER prerogative. You won't see all the PC ladies doing that. She has a business goal.
And that is their business... if I do not like someone's business practices then I do not buy from them. A few years ago I was looking to buy a brand new 2006 Mustang for my 17-year-old son. I went to a local dealer and they tried to sell me a car that was not what I was looking for from their inventory. I left and went to another dealer in another town... found the perfect car and also saw another brand new 2006 Mustang that I fell in love with. Guess what... the original dealer's pushiness cost them a cash sale on two brand new Mustangs... one for me and one for my son.

Nowadays it is a buyers market... sellers need to keep this in mind.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:09 PM   #98
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Do you have a twin brother by the name of Andrew, Mr TellsAll?
ROFL... sorry I don't.

Do you own a set of pompoms?
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:14 PM   #99
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Well as much as it's "my bad" for a demo to tell you something is the best in the world isn't it just as much "your bad" for believing it and not shopping around?

Lying about a products capabilities is not the same as touting it's abilities and offering it for sale. In keeping with the bone folder theme...if $7 seemed steep to you (and trust me I've been in that boat plenty of times) it's your responsibility to react accordingly. Shop around. Even as a demo with my discount I don't buy everything SU. And speaking personally if I know a client well enough to know their situation I can give them the most bang for their buck so to speak. But sales people can't help you with your budget if they don't know it.
Yes, you are right... people should shop around. What I have been describing actually happened to a really sweet lady I brought into stamping. She came to me after her first marathon with a long list from the catty and luckily I saved her a lot of money by sending her to Michael's and Joann's for some of the basics!

As for myself... I have no budget... I buy whatever I want.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:23 PM   #100
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Ahhh but SU does... they infer they are the best. Look at the website about going UM... sorry but I have never seen any difference in UM stamps from one company to another oter than teh etching on the rubber. SU had to claim "they had to do research, etc.". Pulease... it is a rubber stamp on some type of EZ Mount. *rolling eyes*
OF COURSE all companies say they're the best!

ROFL!

What do you expect, a company that says, "please buy us, we're just as good as anyone else!"

ROFL I'm sorry but that's pretty funny.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #101
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If you post was directed at me I never blamed SU for lousy (your words) Demos... they do that all on their own and I am sure there are just as many awesome Demos as their are lousy ones. I said I didn't like pushy sales people (for any product) and their product just didn't appeal to me any longer.
No it was directed at many posts. If it were for you, I would have quoted you.

Yes there are good and bad demos and salespeople for every company and business on earth.


So. What's the big deal? Why so down on SU!? Is it simply because here on SCS there happen to be a lot of SU! users?


I really have no argument with you, I'm just kind of surprised at some of the things you say, as though they are unique to SU!.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #102
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Do you have a twin brother by the name of Andrew, Mr TellsAll?
LMBO... I just realized you think I am MrTellsAll. Look at my profile... I am a female and have been on this site longer than you have.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:25 PM   #103
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ROFL... sorry I don't.

Do you own a set of pompoms?
I'm confused. Are you Mr. Tells All?
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:27 PM   #104
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LMBO... I just realized you think I am MrTellsAll. Look at my profile... I am a female and have been on this site longer than you have.
Oh sorry, you answered her, so even I got confused!
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:27 PM   #105
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I'm a Demo since Sept. of this year and so far very pleased with their customer care. A few punches have had to be replaced and a hinge on a stamp and scrub was broken and totally replaced. They never asked me to ship anything back. They always have an answer for any question and sometimes ask if I have a suggestion to make something better. The phone number is on the back of all the cattys. Just call them! Blessings, Nanajanet
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:34 PM   #106
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No it was directed at many posts. If it were for you, I would have quoted you.

Yes there are good and bad demos and salespeople for every company and business on earth.


So. What's the big deal? Why so down on SU!? Is it simply because here on SCS there happen to be a lot of SU! users?


I really have no argument with you, I'm just kind of surprised at some of the things you say, as though they are unique to SU!.
Thanks for clarifying.

There is no big deal. I said I was sick of pushy Demos (and the pompom crowd here) and that SU products just don't appeal to me anymore. I really don't know why you are surprised... there are many folks that do not like one company or another for whatever reason.

I do like SU cardstock!

FOR THE RECORD--- I AM NOT MRTELLSALL.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:36 PM   #107
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I'm a Demo since Sept. of this year and so far very pleased with their customer care. A few punches have had to be replaced and a hinge on a stamp and scrub was broken and totally replaced. They never asked me to ship anything back. They always have an answer for any question and sometimes ask if I have a suggestion to make something better. The phone number is on the back of all the cattys. Just call them! Blessings, Nanajanet
Ahhh so you do own a set of pompoms!

As for the rest of your post... what the heck does that have to do with this thread? If you are getting damaged product you need to take that up with SU... not advertise it.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:06 PM   #108
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Ahhh so you do own a set of pompoms!
oh, so according to you, every demo is a cheerleader? how is being a cheerleader a bad thing? I love SU and I don't have a problem saying that. I also love Verve Stamps, MFT, and Nestabilities. Am I now a "cheerleader" for them too?
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:51 PM   #109
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oh, so according to you, every demo is a cheerleader? how is being a cheerleader a bad thing? I love SU and I don't have a problem saying that. I also love Verve Stamps, MFT, and Nestabilities. Am I now a "cheerleader" for them too?
No, not every Demo. The person that posted that accused me of being someone I was not, which is usually what the Cheerleaders do on this site... a few of them gang up whenever something is negative about SU. Big surprise.. she IS a Demo.

If you want to be a cheerleader for another company you can... but be careful about it... it may be a violation of your IDA. *snort*
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:55 PM   #110
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I honestly think she was referring to the OP and not at all to you. I mean there is nothing in your username that sounds like Andrew and MR. started this thread quite out of the blue in regards to his post count and sign up date.

But I have a feeling at this point no matter what is said you will have your opinion based on the one story you shared. None of us demo or otherwise will change your stance.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:09 PM   #111
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LOL at the $7 bone folder- yep, that seems kinda steep to me... Last time I was at the doctors, I asked for a big tongue depressor, and so far, that and my $2 stylus have worked ok, in conjunction with my paper trimmer's indented marks.
in order to save the money, I admit I turn a two minute project into four minutes.... but i am one of those people that squeezes the nickel 'till the Buffalo cries, and believe me, if I had the money, I'd own a Scor-Pal in an instant.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:17 PM   #112
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I honestly think she was referring to the OP and not at all to you. I mean there is nothing in your username that sounds like Andrew and MR. started this thread quite out of the blue in regards to his post count and sign up date.

But I have a feeling at this point no matter what is said you will have your opinion based on the one story you shared. None of us demo or otherwise will change your stance.
I would like to think that but she did not clarify and she posted long after the OP left.

I don't have anything against any of the Demos here. I have never done business with them so their business practices (whether good or bad) really do not affect me. I do admit some of the "Cheerleaders" are extremely annoying and it does affect the way I feel about SU. Sometimes less is better, ya know?

I also do not have anything against SU... I never said their product was below standard. I like their cardstock and own a lot of stamp sets and punches. I did state that their stamps and papers do not appeal to me at this time but that may change with the next annual catty coming out... we'll see. I do know I will never limit myself to just one company's products. I have one confession though... I wish Shelli would get a new hairstyle!
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:20 PM   #113
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LOL at the $7 bone folder- yep, that seems kinda steep to me... Last time I was at the doctors, I asked for a big tongue depressor, and so far, that and my $2 stylus have worked ok, in conjunction with my paper trimmer's indented marks.
in order to save the money, I admit I turn a two minute project into four minutes.... but i am one of those people that squeezes the nickel 'till the Buffalo cries, and believe me, if I had the money, I'd own a Scor-Pal in an instant.
With the price of healthcare and medical equipment these days I am surprised you didn't have to pay for it! LOLOL!
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:43 PM   #114
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With the price of healthcare and medical equipment these days I am surprised you didn't have to pay for it! LOLOL!
I wouldn't be surprised if he billed my insurance for it LOL
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:58 PM   #115
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Thanks for the explanation...I was with Joan in wondering what troll meant. Definition hits the nail on his head perfectly!
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:44 PM   #116
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It would make you think!
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #117
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It's always sad how defensive SU Demo's get when anyone criticizes SU. I'd say take a step back and try to understand how others feel.

I worked for both a bookstore in my teens, and then a bank later on, and if I knew of a better product or price elsewhere, I'd tell the customer. You would not believe the loyalty that brought to me as a representative of the both companies. In the first year with the Bank, I won a week off with pay because I had sold a banking * product* that I believed in . But I'd also tell people where they could get a better deal if I was aware of one, or I recommend against a product if I did not think it was in the customer's best interests. Then people come to trust you and the company - and I could not do things any other way.

My point - always defending a company can lose you customers.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:10 PM   #118
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Gee ... if you don't sell - you don't have a business ... right??
This was my first and last thought too!

I guess I am the "wrong kind of demo"...........geesh...
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:39 PM   #119
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It's always sad how defensive SU Demo's get when anyone criticizes SU. I'd say take a step back and try to understand how others feel.

I worked for both a bookstore in my teens, and then a bank later on, and if I knew of a better product or price elsewhere, I'd tell the customer. You would not believe the loyalty that brought to me as a representative of the both companies. In the first year with the Bank, I won a week off with pay because I had sold a banking * product* that I believed in . But I'd also tell people where they could get a better deal if I was aware of one, or I recommend against a product if I did not think it was in the customer's best interests. Then people come to trust you and the company - and I could not do things any other way.

My point - always defending a company can lose you customers.
Sheesh, you make it sound like there are all these demos touting a product they don't actually believe in. As I see it, the "defending" of which you speak comes from enduring months (if not a year or two at least) of negative posts about how awful/incompetent/uncaring/greedy/oppressive/clueless Stampin' Up! is. They don't all come at once, more like in waves, and usually coinciding with some change or new offering from the company that people don't like. There are some demos out there feeling pretty beaten down from all the cattiness and snide comments about SU! being a "beginner's" company and inferring that "real" or "experienced" stampers aren't SUO in their crafting and those who choose to be are somehow stifled in their creativity. Maybe those folks who posted all those comments need to take a step back and understand how we SU! demos feel about that. At least we can finally have a reprieve from the "SU! is stupid because they don't sell unmounted" discussions that seemed to develop in just about every wish list thread.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:46 PM   #120
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for what its worth, items that are cheaper at Mike's (in my case) are worthless if I don't know what to do with them. No one at Mike's ever even knows what I am talking about ('I don't work in that department' is a usual response.... so I wonder, how do you not know where the stamps are? Just point me to an area of the store LOL). I feel like the extra money I might pay is well worth it for the crafting wisdom I can get from an SU demo.... or any demo for that matter.
Price-wise, I find the best deals online, usually here or on eBay, not at Michael's (even with a coupon)
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