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Old 03-13-2005, 10:48 AM   #1
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Default Update on the dishonest eBayer

Good news to those who have been following the threads on the dishonest eBay seller over the last two days.

The offending eBay seller - whose name cannot be mentioned - who was shilling bidders by creating a fake username and bidding on her own auctions to boost her own bid prices has been

SUSPENDED!

It's great to know that this fraudulant behavior is not tolerated and quickly dealt with at eBay.

Crime doesn't pay.
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Old 03-13-2005, 11:08 AM   #2
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I saw that ! YEAAAAHHHH!!! It is so good to see dishonest people get caught, I just feel so bad for the people that she was trying to scam!
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Old 03-13-2005, 11:08 AM   #3
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Great news. It is good to see that justice is served. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but the majority of people are honest and hardworking and they should know that their efforts are not in vain.
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:36 PM   #4
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Yahhh! Now I've been wondering.... There is someone out there selling an "idea CD" that claims to have ove 1000 samples of stampin up cards. I wonder where she is getting the 1000 samples.... Did she truly sell them all herself?

And also, there is one who is selling card fronts that look fishily like she got them in a swap... Although I understand that when you send card out in a swap, you are giving them away, it just seems gross to sell you swap cards on ebay.

If you have too many swap cards, why not mount them on cardstock and give them to Ronald McDonald house or another worthy organization. We give ours to the local chapter of the national federation of the blind to send to their members for birthdays, sympathy, etc.

Just a few thoughts from the soapbox. I'll step down now.
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:50 PM   #5
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Quote:

Originally Posted by stampysister
And also, there is one who is selling card fronts that look fishily like she got them in a swap... Although I understand that when you send card out in a swap, you are giving them away, it just seems gross to sell you swap cards on ebay
I may be wrong, but I believe is a severe violation of SU! copyright policy to sell anything online (cards, 3D items, gift packaging, etc.) that that are made using SU! images. Same for selling them in a "fixed retail location". This is regardless of whether you are a demonstrator or merely a consumer.

I would report that auction to SU!/compliance department, and let them take it from there.
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Old 03-13-2005, 01:59 PM   #6
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So are you all saying that the basket of flowers stamp (which I found out I have) is NOT worth the $50? I guess it's a good thing that I didn't stop funding my life insurance to invest in more stamps
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Old 03-13-2005, 02:02 PM   #7
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JulieHRR
Quote:

Originally Posted by stampysister
And also, there is one who is selling card fronts that look fishily like she got them in a swap... Although I understand that when you send card out in a swap, you are giving them away, it just seems gross to sell you swap cards on ebay
I may be wrong, but I believe is a severe violation of SU! copyright policy to sell anything online (cards, 3D items, gift packaging, etc.) that that are made using SU! images. Same for selling them in a "fixed retail location". This is regardless of whether you are a demonstrator or merely a consumer.

I would report that auction to SU!/compliance department, and let them take it from there.
I believe it may come down to how it is listed. I belong to a yahoo group and the list owner "sells" CD's and from what I understand can "legally" do this because she is not "selling" the images, she is charging for the cost of the CD and the amount of time it takes to put them onto the CD.
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Old 03-13-2005, 02:07 PM   #8
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people can find loopholes in anything....what a shame...
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Old 03-13-2005, 02:36 PM   #9
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WOW! How did they figure out she was doing that? I bet that probably happens a lot. I wonder how many times I have paid too much or been out bid because of that.
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Old 03-13-2005, 03:01 PM   #10
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I reported her too, with specific items numbers and the other party's id too. As for the idea CD - I bought one before I found SCS. Guess what - most of the images look like the ones here! I emailed the seller and asked about it and didn't get a rely. Big surprise....
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Old 03-13-2005, 03:07 PM   #11
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Wonder if ebays makes shill bidders give refunds to those poor people who's bids got upped illegally? Would be nice if they did.
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Old 03-13-2005, 08:14 PM   #12
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I thought you could sell whatever you wanted as long as you had the handmade stamp on the back. Isn't that why I bought those stamps??
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Old 03-13-2005, 08:20 PM   #13
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Is this the one who had o feedback and was bidding on EVERYTHING this seller had for auction? ( I vaugely remember this thread the otehr day)
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Old 03-14-2005, 05:54 AM   #14
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Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetHeidiJo
I thought you could sell whatever you wanted as long as you had the handmade stamp on the back. Isn't that why I bought those stamps??
Hi Heidi!
According to SU policy you can't sell items made with SU products at a permanent location. Ebay is considered a permanent location. You're fine if you're selling at tag sales or to individual people.

HTH,
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:14 AM   #15
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Thanks for clearing that up for me Amy! What would I do without you?

-Heidi :0)
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:25 AM   #16
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Quote:

Originally Posted by stampysister
Yahhh! Now I've been wondering.... There is someone out there selling an "idea CD" that claims to have ove 1000 samples of stampin up cards. I wonder where she is getting the 1000 samples.... Did she truly sell them all herself?


.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was selling the cd that you could buy only if you attended convention. If you bought this not only can you not sell it, you also are not allowed to make copies or let anyone else view it. When you open the cd and start it initially you agree to abide by those rules.
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:46 AM   #17
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It is also a violation of SU copyright policy to mechanically reproduce SU images. The angel policy only applies to "hand stamped" items. So the person who is just "charging" for the cost of the CD and her time is in violation if she is using SU images on the CD.
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Old 03-14-2005, 08:16 AM   #18
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regarding selling hand made items using SU product....What about the handmade cards I see once in a while at the boutiques, or in a basket at the front counter at a store?? Can they do that?? What are the special stamps that you purchase from SU to stamp the back for? I guess I'm just not understanding very well....
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Old 03-14-2005, 08:23 AM   #19
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I have seen on EBay people selling individual SU cards.
Is this permitted? Based on what I have read, its a no-no as EBay is a permanent place.
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Old 03-14-2005, 08:31 AM   #20
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MommaJ
What about the handmade cards I see once in a while at the boutiques, or in a basket at the front counter at a store?? Can they do that?? What are the special stamps that you purchase from SU to stamp the back for? I guess I'm just not understanding very well....
You can sell your hand made cards, craft items, etc. with the "handmade" stamps (including the copyright line) on the back at a NON-PERMANENT location. A boutique that will only be there for a few days is OK. A scrapbooking store is not OK. eBay is not OK, as internet sites are considered permanent locations. If you are selling to your customers, that is OK, as long as it is not at stamp camp or workshops. If you do a search in the forums for "Angel Policy," you'll be able to find it, I'm sure. This outlines all of Stampin' Up!'s policies.
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:43 AM   #21
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Thanks Lizziestamps! That makes more sense now! Just a question thought, if a Demo can sell cards to her customers, why can't she do it at her stamp camps? I can see at a hostess's party, cause that could take away sales from the hostess...?? I'm not a Demo, but am just curious . (By the way, we're practically neighbors! I'm in Pleasant Grove! )
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:45 PM   #22
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MommaJ
If a Demo can sell cards to her customers, why can't she do it at her stamp camps?
Howdy Neighbor! It don't know exactly why, except it is part of the Angel policy, which states, in part, "Hand-stamped items cannot be sold in any permanent retail location (any location that conducts business in a store, consignment shop, kiosk, mall or Internet site), nor may they be sold to other vendors for resale purpose, nor may they be sold at Stampin' Up!-demonstrator-sponsored events such as workshops, stamp camps, open houses, etc." A workshop, for the obvious reason of taking away from sales for the hostess, is easily understandable. The reason for not being able to sell them at stamp camp isn't really clear, except that it is just part of the policy
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Old 03-14-2005, 07:01 PM   #23
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Quote:

If a Demo can sell cards to her customers, why can't she do it at her stamp camps?
you can either represent the company as a demo, or you can sell stuff. you can't do both at the same time. that's why you can't sell cards at a stamp camp.
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Old 03-14-2005, 07:18 PM   #24
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You can't wear two hats at once.

Okay, this CD thing. The idea one on eBay does not sound legit.

When someone has a Yahoo group, if the owner wants to take the time to compile the samples and alphabetize them, then try to sell them for the cost of the CD plus postage, rounded up, is that wrong?

I'm not sure I'd bother to buy one anyway these days with SCS available, but a year ago, few knew about this site.
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Old 03-14-2005, 08:11 PM   #25
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Gotcha now! It makes sense! Thanks
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:51 PM   #26
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose
When someone has a Yahoo group, if the owner wants to take the time to compile the samples and alphabetize them, then try to sell them for the cost of the CD plus postage, rounded up, is that wrong?
Yep it's wrong. The images are still being mechanically reproduced and that is where the violation lies. Mechanical reproduction of SU images is a violation even if there is no profit being made.
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Old 03-14-2005, 10:29 PM   #27
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Ok, I know.... It's me again I have another question When you say "Mechanical Reproductions" does this mean that I am not supposed to print out examples of SCS cards from this site to refer to for inspiration?? (I did this on a few until I figured out the "favorites" button....sooooooo much better )
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Old 03-14-2005, 11:46 PM   #28
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Sure, you can print them out--just don't sell them!
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:03 AM   #29
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As this info is new to me also, about not selling stamped cards, where is that policy stated when I go to a SU party ?
I have been to about 20 in the past 5 years and never once has that been said at a party.
How can that be enforced? I know people that sell cards made with SU stamps all the time. Those samples inspired me to buy some of those sets, as I ,of course, thought I could make them too.
I buy on ebay all the time and I don't see any reason that people can't sell card samples on there, that they made. Although, I have never bought any myself. I don't think it deters people from buying SU products..just the opposite..I think it enhances sales of their products! As we all know the famous saying we use " I can make that a lot cheaper !"
smile.
I guess I'm having a brain cramp on this issue. Have a great day all.
I have to go to the gallery now for my inspiration for the day!
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:25 AM   #30
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Quote:

Originally Posted by msamethyst1
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose
When someone has a Yahoo group, if the owner wants to take the time to compile the samples and alphabetize them, then try to sell them for the cost of the CD plus postage, rounded up, is that wrong?
Yep it's wrong. The images are still being mechanically reproduced and that is where the violation lies. Mechanical reproduction of SU images is a violation even if there is no profit being made.
I don't believe that is what they meant by mechanically reproducing them because if that was the case than no cards would be able to be displayed online period.

There are over 300 members on the Yahoo Group that I belong to and from what I remember (and this was from posts last summer) she got it cleared through SU and could not sell the images but could charge for the cost of CD and the time it takes to burn them. I would have thought with as many demo's on the list as there are that someone would have already tried to "turn her in" and since this is her 3rd round of CD's I'm not sure she is breaking any SU rules.
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:28 AM   #31
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I think someone said it's on the back of the SU! order form - that's why customers are supposed to abide by the angel policy.

You have to understand that SU! wants to remain a home-based business. If you seriously examine their policies, they are all aimed at protecting this, and maintaining the copyrights of their images.

(My DH works as a patent engineer, I know how protective companies can get, and how sometimes they are forced to be aggressive.)

This provides motivation to keep images off eBay and away from mechanical reproduction.

It is up to US to keep the lines clear between this "craft" or "hobby" or "artform" and the digital age.

SU! is simply trying to protect their interests, AND the whole philosophy of the company. It's not all just about the value of one stamp or stamp set.

You CAN sell cards made with SU! stamps, as has been said before - JUST NOT IN FIXED STORES or ON THE INTERNET.

purple princess2, Everyone needs to read things carefully or you could potentially get in trouble. .. .. If you knew nothing about SU! and bought a current set off someone on eBay, I seriously doubt anyone would bother taking action!!! But if enough actions are allowed to go on, that are counter to their policy, they could be forced to step up enforcement. The more money they have to spend on that and a legal department, the more your stamps are going to cost.

So BEHAVE everyone!

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Old 03-15-2005, 03:32 AM   #32
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karinlm,

I agree with you. I believe they are referring to the MAKING of cards, not the reproducing of the images in small form on a CD. They don't want you to set up a mechanical assembly line to turn out ONE CARD AND SELL IT (for example).

So I can see how that fits with their philosophy.
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:25 AM   #33
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose
I think someone said it's on the back of the SU! order form - that's why customers are supposed to abide by the angel policy.

You have to understand that SU! wants to remain a home-based business. If you seriously examine their policies, they are all aimed at protecting this, and maintaining the copyrights of their images.

(My DH works as a patent engineer, I know how protective companies can get, and how sometimes they are forced to be aggressive.)

This provides motivation to keep images off eBay and away from mechanical reproduction.

It is up to US to keep the lines clear between this "craft" or "hobby" or "artform" and the digital age.

SU! is simply trying to protect their interests, AND the whole philosophy of the company. It's not all just about the value of one stamp or stamp set.

You CAN sell cards made with SU! stamps, as has been said before - JUST NOT IN FIXED STORES or ON THE INTERNET.

purple princess2, Everyone needs to read things carefully or you could potentially get in trouble. .. .. If you knew nothing about SU! and bought a current set off someone on eBay, I seriously doubt anyone would bother taking action!!! But if enough actions are allowed to go on, that are counter to their policy, they could be forced to step up enforcement. The more money they have to spend on that and a legal department, the more your stamps are going to cost.

So BEHAVE everyone!

Why doesn't one of us just email SU and get an official response on the subject and then we will all know If I have a minute this afternoon I will do it.

While on the subject of what is written on the back of the order form....

I have not gotten an order form since last spring so its been a year since I got a form. I'm not ignorant to their rules (even though I don't agree with some of them) but if they changed anything I would never know it if I never came here. Put someone who never goes on the internet and has bought SU stamps and never got an order form....they could have NO idea about SU's "angel" policy or even what an angel policy is.
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:31 AM   #34
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MommaJ
So are you all saying that the basket of flowers stamp (which I found out I have) is NOT worth the $50? I guess it's a good thing that I didn't stop funding my life insurance to invest in more stamps
You are too too funny!
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:00 AM   #35
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I think Lisa made a good point on her site about copywrite. She has done her research and gives good references for those interested in doing some more reading.

Quote:

What Does It Mean For Artists?
I'll give you a short answer to this one: it means you should not make copies of original work that isn't yours. That includes scanning books or magazines, capturing images from the Internet (the copy you make on your hard drive is the violation), photocopying anything that you didn't create from scratch. I don't care if you bought the book---you only bought the one copy of it, not the right to make more copies. That right stays with the originating artist, and currently it lasts until 70 years after that originating artist dies. At the moment, the best advice is to avoid copying anything that was printed after 1923. With a very few exceptions, most of could still be covered by its original copyright, so copying it is breaking the law.

http://www.lisavollrath.com/lisa/e004.html
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Old 03-15-2005, 01:26 PM   #36
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Yes, karinlm, I was thinking the same thing - how many people don't ever see an order form.

The copyright info is interesting, but we're kind of talking about something a little different.

After all, we are allowed to use the stamps, to make cards, and to sell them (in limited places).

And Asela, just FYI, it's copyright, not copywrite. A common error!
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:05 AM   #37
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Quote:

Originally Posted by msamethyst1
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose
When someone has a Yahoo group, if the owner wants to take the time to compile the samples and alphabetize them, then try to sell them for the cost of the CD plus postage, rounded up, is that wrong?
Yep it's wrong. The images are still being mechanically reproduced and that is where the violation lies. Mechanical reproduction of SU images is a violation even if there is no profit being made.
Actually, your response is not correct. I emailed SU and this is the response I got....

"If the artists who have submitted the items that are contained on this CD have given their permission and if the Stampin’ Up! copyright notice is posted by each example that uses our images, and if the CD is being sold only for the production costs plus postage, this is fine. It is not a violation. It would be a violation if the images on the CD were projects displayed at convention or one of our regional seminars or if it were produced for profit. "

So since the Yahoo Group Owner has everyones permission and isn't making a profit its not a SU violation
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:15 PM   #38
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Thank you, Karinlm, I was under the impression that the "mechanical" reproduction they are talking about is when you want to make a bunch of cards all the same, you can't just stamp one and copy the others....
you have to individually stamp each one.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:58 PM   #39
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose
Thank you, Karinlm, I was under the impression that the "mechanical" reproduction they are talking about is when you want to make a bunch of cards all the same, you can't just stamp one and copy the others....
you have to individually stamp each one.
Actually, Kathy, you are NOT wrong. Aside from the issue of this cd, in general this clause about no mechanical reproduction DOES refer to the practice of using machinery to reproduce the image(s). Even most liberal companies out there, with virtually no restrictions on the sale of products made with their images, draw the line at this. "hand stamped only" and, often, "low volume only" are common phrases. This actually even applies to stamping an image on paper and then photocopying it onto shrink plastic. While it may help to get good images, it's still "mechanical reproduction."

Will the stamping police come after violators? More than likely not. That wouldn't make it right though...

If you care to, there are lists out there == LONG lists == of stamp companies and their angel policies. I remember printing one off several years ago. I think it was from Dragonhome's website.

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Betsy
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by karinlm
While on the subject of what is written on the back of the order form....

I have not gotten an order form since last spring so its been a year since I got a form. I'm not ignorant to their rules (even though I don't agree with some of them) but if they changed anything I would never know it if I never came here. Put someone who never goes on the internet and has bought SU stamps and never got an order form....they could have NO idea about SU's "angel" policy or even what an angel policy is.
Unfortunately, ignorance of the rules does not always work as an excuse. If it is accepted, it's a one-time-only thing, but I have heard of people getting in legal trouble on the first offense and losing the lawsuit filed by the copyright holder to the tune of a hefty chunk of change. In this digital age, and with the omnipresence of connections to the internet, copyright has become a serious issue and we are seeing widespread crackdowns on violators at all levels.
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