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Old 09-07-2009, 03:59 PM   #1721
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I never said they didn't have a legal department, they have one but one that doesn't seem well versed in the online world, how their PASSION BASED-primarily run by women, business owners would react to such a contract as they initially put forth.

To go back with an eraser after the fact is for some, too little or too late, for others what they need to make a better decision to stay.

This business is not like many others out there, as a whole this craft is passion based, heart and soul into projects to make other people happy so they can bring joy to others business is far different that Michael Jordan and his shoes. Which stands to reason that the outcry has been so loud, so vocal and so viral.

Like I've said before, this whole situation makes me very sad to see so many people pitted against each other in a war of words.

For me, again, as I've stated before, much of the repercussions being felt around this whole mess does not support the mission statement of SU!
But the thing is...the women business owners who are affected by the IDA...those who run this as a BUSINESS are not that bothered by the language of it. The demos I know who are in this as a business, who use this money to support their families, pay a few bills, etc....they were already compliant with the language before this whole thing started.

The ones who are objecting, for the most part, are the hobbyists and the people who have to choose between design teams and the new IDA.

My hope is that if people don't want to sign, that they at least can discuss this in a civil way without inflaming public opinion against the company. Their sister demos who actually need the money that they generate from their businesses are being hurt by the damage created by the whole war of words. And even those who don't support their families are also being hurt by this.

I only make enough money at this to cover the costs of what I spend, though I have been working on expanding my business so that I could actually help pay for things we really need, like new carpet, or something that I'd love my kids to have, like karate lessons for my son, etc. Things we have had to do without for the past few years. I wish I could say I was only in this for passion, but unless this passion pays for itself, I couldn't afford to do this at all. I'm sure there are many like me in this position. All those demos that drop? You think their money is going to go elsewhere? It may not...because if they drop there may be NO money at all. Everyone loses in that situation.

I know there are going to be people who say, "Well, that's not my fault, it's all SU!'s fault!" The thing is...it's out there. It's been done. There is no drawing it back. (And I'm not talking about you, Val, with this next statement, but a few much more vocal others.) What good does it do to get revenge on the company by making sure that customers stop buying and people stop signing up to be demos? Does hurting other demonstrators' businesses make them feel better somehow? Does being extremely vocal about why they are leaving and making sure their customers never buy SU! products again satisfy them? Does "showing SU! the power of the people" mean so much that these folks are willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods just so they can have revenge on a company that has, up to this point, always dealt with them fairly and honestly?

I agree...the repercussions do not fit the Statement of the Heart.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:15 PM   #1722
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But the thing is...the women business owners who are affected by the IDA...those who run this as a BUSINESS are not that bothered by the language of it. The demos I know who are in this as a business, who use this money to support their families, pay a few bills, etc....they were already compliant with the language before this whole thing started.

The ones who are objecting, for the most part, are the hobbyists and the people who have to choose between design teams and the new IDA.

My hope is that if people don't want to sign, that they at least can discuss this in a civil way without inflaming public opinion against the company. Their sister demos who actually need the money that they generate from their businesses are being hurt by the damage created by the whole war of words. And even those who don't support their families are also being hurt by this.

I only make enough money at this to cover the costs of what I spend, though I have been working on expanding my business so that I could actually help pay for things we really need, like new carpet, or something that I'd love my kids to have, like karate lessons for my son, etc. Things we have had to do without for the past few years. I wish I could say I was only in this for passion, but unless this passion pays for itself, I couldn't afford to do this at all. I'm sure there are many like me in this position. All those demos that drop? You think their money is going to go elsewhere? It may not...because if they drop there may be NO money at all. Everyone loses in that situation.

I know there are going to be people who say, "Well, that's not my fault, it's all SU!'s fault!" The thing is...it's out there. It's been done. There is no drawing it back. (And I'm not talking about you, Val, with this next statement, but a few much more vocal others.) What good does it do to get revenge on the company by making sure that customers stop buying and people stop signing up to be demos? Does hurting other demonstrators' businesses make them feel better somehow? Does being extremely vocal about why they are leaving and making sure their customers never buy SU! products again satisfy them? Does "showing SU! the power of the people" mean so much that these folks are willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods just so they can have revenge on a company that has, up to this point, always dealt with them fairly and honestly?

I agree...the repercussions do not fit the Statement of the Heart.
I totally agree with what you have said, Jan.

I think that everyone need to make the decision that is best for them, but at the same time, realize that there are REAL people out there that do more than buy stamping/crafting supplies with the money that they make.

I have personally decided to leave SU as a demo, but will stay as a customer. If I have given anyone here the impression that SU is "bad" or that they should not sign up as a demo or buy from them, I apologize. I certainly don't feel that way at all. Right now, being a SU demo is not what is best for me.; but it might very well be the right thing for someone else. It was sure fun while it lasted, though.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:20 PM   #1723
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Originally Posted by JanTInk View Post
But the thing is...the women business owners who are affected by the IDA...those who run this as a BUSINESS are not that bothered by the language of it. The demos I know who are in this as a business, who use this money to support their families, pay a few bills, etc....they were already compliant with the language before this whole thing started.

The ones who are objecting, for the most part, are the hobbyists and the people who have to choose between design teams and the new IDA.

My hope is that if people don't want to sign, that they at least can discuss this in a civil way without inflaming public opinion against the company. Their sister demos who actually need the money that they generate from their businesses are being hurt by the damage created by the whole war of words. And even those who don't support their families are also being hurt by this.

I only make enough money at this to cover the costs of what I spend, though I have been working on expanding my business so that I could actually help pay for things we really need, like new carpet, or something that I'd love my kids to have, like karate lessons for my son, etc. Things we have had to do without for the past few years. I wish I could say I was only in this for passion, but unless this passion pays for itself, I couldn't afford to do this at all. I'm sure there are many like me in this position. All those demos that drop? You think their money is going to go elsewhere? It may not...because if they drop there may be NO money at all. Everyone loses in that situation.

I know there are going to be people who say, "Well, that's not my fault, it's all SU!'s fault!" The thing is...it's out there. It's been done. There is no drawing it back. (And I'm not talking about you, Val, with this next statement, but a few much more vocal others.) What good does it do to get revenge on the company by making sure that customers stop buying and people stop signing up to be demos? Does hurting other demonstrators' businesses make them feel better somehow? Does being extremely vocal about why they are leaving and making sure their customers never buy SU! products again satisfy them? Does "showing SU! the power of the people" mean so much that these folks are willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods just so they can have revenge on a company that has, up to this point, always dealt with them fairly and honestly?

I agree...the repercussions do not fit the Statement of the Heart.
I may have shown my true colors as a Stampin' Up! cheerleader in the past few days but can i throw my hat in the ring as a JanTInk cheerleader as well?

I think what you have posted here is the core of what has been bothering me most about this whole controversy. My family needs the money I make from this business. Sign or don't sign but please try to put it into perspective. You may leave, but there are those of us trying to live off of their businesses that are left to pick up the pieces.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:24 PM   #1724
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Originally Posted by JanTInk View Post
But the thing is...the women business owners who are affected by the IDA...those who run this as a BUSINESS are not that bothered by the language of it. The demos I know who are in this as a business, who use this money to support their families, pay a few bills, etc....they were already compliant with the language before this whole thing started.

The ones who are objecting, for the most part, are the hobbyists and the people who have to choose between design teams and the new IDA.

My hope is that if people don't want to sign, that they at least can discuss this in a civil way without inflaming public opinion against the company.

I think that even with discussions being civil, public opinion is more likely to be inflamed by the language of the IDA itself.



Quote:
Their sister demos who actually need the money that they generate from their businesses are being hurt by the damage created by the whole war of words. And even those who don't support their families are also being hurt by this.

I only make enough money at this to cover the costs of what I spend, though I have been working on expanding my business so that I could actually help pay for things we really need, like new carpet, or something that I'd love my kids to have, like karate lessons for my son, etc. Things we have had to do without for the past few years. I wish I could say I was only in this for passion, but unless this passion pays for itself, I couldn't afford to do this at all. I'm sure there are many like me in this position. All those demos that drop? You think their money is going to go elsewhere? It may not...because if they drop there may be NO money at all. Everyone loses in that situation.
I'm confused by this. I'm not a demo, but I don't understand how if someone drops, they won't have any money at all??

Quote:
I know there are going to be people who say, "Well, that's not my fault, it's all SU!'s fault!" The thing is...it's out there. It's been done. There is no drawing it back. (And I'm not talking about you, Val, with this next statement, but a few much more vocal others.) What good does it do to get revenge on the company by making sure that customers stop buying and people stop signing up to be demos? Does hurting other demonstrators' businesses make them feel better somehow? Does being extremely vocal about why they are leaving and making sure their customers never buy SU! products again satisfy them? Does "showing SU! the power of the people" mean so much that these folks are willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods just so they can have revenge on a company that has, up to this point, always dealt with them fairly and honestly?

I agree...the repercussions do not fit the Statement of the Heart.

I don't see how the other demonstrators will be hurt. I actually think they will probably benefit. If a lot of demos drop, their customers (the customers of the dropped demos) might just turn to other demonstrators, and make up for the customers that stop buying.

Also, someone not buying Stampin' Up! or discussing this issue in an uncivil manner doesn't necessarily mean that they are sacrificing other people's livelihoods. I think that's kind of reaching. I don't think that any demo has that kind of power over most of her customers (not to mention the customers of other demos). My demo is good, but usually cannot change my mind about what I have already decided to buy (or not to buy).
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:26 PM   #1725
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I may have shown my true colors as a Stampin' Up! cheerleader in the past few days but can i throw my hat in the ring as a JanTInk cheerleader as well?

I think what you have posted here is the core of what has been bothering me most about this whole controversy. My family needs the money I make from this business. Sign or don't sign but please try to put it into perspective. You may leave, but there are those of us trying to live off of their businesses that are left to pick up the pieces.
((((HUGS!)))) Brandi! If you weren't in Canada, I'd make you my new demo. I thought of you immediately when I read Jan's post.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:29 PM   #1726
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For those who are considering not signing the current IDA, please make sure you have ordered any free sets (Stampin' Start & other promos), GW items (though the new year just started and most have few points), and that sort of thing before 30 September. You cannot place orders after that date if you have not signed the new IDA.

Also, you do not necessarily have to drop on 30 September if you've made your third quarter minimums. You will not be able to make any purchases for the fourth quarter, though, and will go into pending in January 2010. You will be terminated on 1 February 2010.

This gives you extra time as a demo to wait and see if SU will make any changes. You won't be able to buy anything, but you won't lose your demo standing or career stats, either. SU has been known to tweak things in response to demo & customer feedback, and while I would hope IDA revisions (if there are to be any more) will happen before the 30th, they may happen after SU has seen a bit of the fallout.

Please take your time and wait this out. A lot can happen between now and 31 January 2010.

I've thought about that - not signing and just going into pending & then being dropped. The thing for me is that I know I want to place one last order (if SU! doesn't revise the IDA) and I have already made my mins for this quarter. I won't be able to wait until next quarter because if I don't sign it, I won't be able to place an order. Part of that last order is a couple of things for my mom for Christmas.

I guess I could go ahead and order her stuff now so that I have it and then wait it out to see if anything happens during the next quarter.

Thanks for helping me see what the best course of action is!
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:35 PM   #1727
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Also, someone not buying Stampin' Up! or discussing this issue in an uncivil manner doesn't necessarily mean that they are sacrificing other people's livelihoods. I think that's kind of reaching. I don't think that any demo has that kind of power over most of her customers (not to mention the customers of other demos). My demo is good, but usually cannot change my mind about what I have already decided to buy (or not to buy).
That's great for you but some people may be influenced by misinformation or controversy more than you. I don,t think it's a reach at all. But I more than likely feel very strongly about it as I am one of those demos that makes a (small) living at this.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:35 PM   #1728
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((((HUGS!)))) Brandi! If you weren't in Canada, I'd make you my new demo. I thought of you immediately when I read Jan's post.
Thanks, Deb! That's really sweet of you!
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:37 PM   #1729
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I may have shown my true colors as a Stampin' Up! cheerleader in the past few days but can i throw my hat in the ring as a JanTInk cheerleader as well?

I think what you have posted here is the core of what has been bothering me most about this whole controversy. My family needs the money I make from this business. Sign or don't sign but please try to put it into perspective. You may leave, but there are those of us trying to live off of their businesses that are left to pick up the pieces.
But are your customers really up in arms over this??? I hope not, for you.

I went to a Stampin' Up! party (er, workshop) on Sunday and no one mentioned anything about this, though I was half expecting someone to. The hostess had a $475 party and ten guests with a few outside orders.

Out of the ten that were there and not including me, I know three of them have galleries here, and one (the hostess actually) actually comes on SCS nearly every day to the galleries (but almost never into the forums).

And my demo is one of those who tells her customers straight out that she doesn't like the SU! tape.

Back to what Jan said...
I really think that the actions and posts of the disgruntled demos and customers will not significantly hurt anyone's livelihood, but it just might impact SU! sales enough so that they revise the IDA again.

If it is a hobby demo who stops buying, she has not hurt any other demo's business, because she wasn't another demo's customer. Though it just occurred to me that she might hurt her upline's wallet...

I really think the ratio of customers to demos will remain about the same.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:37 PM   #1730
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I think that even with discussions being civil, public opinion is more likely to be inflamed by the language of the IDA itself.





I'm confused by this. I'm not a demo, but I don't understand how if someone drops, they won't have any money at all??
No money for buying stamps. If I don't sell stamps, I don't have any money to buy them. My business totally supports my habit. If I dropped, I don't have the cash to buy anything new. Though, I probably could coast a good long way before my wagon came to a complete halt.


Quote:

I don't see how the other demonstrators will be hurt. I actually think they will probably benefit. If a lot of demos drop, their customers (the customers of the dropped demos) might just turn to other demonstrators, and make up for the customers that stop buying.

Also, someone not buying Stampin' Up! or discussing this issue in an uncivil manner doesn't necessarily mean that they are sacrificing other people's livelihoods. I think that's kind of reaching. I don't think that any demo has that kind of power over most of her customers (not to mention the customers of other demos). My demo is good, but usually cannot change my mind about what I have already decided to buy (or not to buy).
I've read so many posts over the past week of demonstrators bragging that they were dropping and had told all their customers why and all those customers were going to stop buying SU! I've read posts on facebook where people said they were going to stop buying. Yes, yes, the wild rumors and speculations, and the sheer vitriole that some are spreading IS hurting demonstrators.
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Last edited by JanTInk; 09-07-2009 at 04:43 PM.. Reason: Bad comma...BAD COMMA! LOL!
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:38 PM   #1731
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I think that even with discussions being civil, public opinion is more likely to be inflamed by the language of the IDA itself.





I'm confused by this. I'm not a demo, but I don't understand how if someone drops, they won't have any money at all??




I don't see how the other demonstrators will be hurt. I actually think they will probably benefit. If a lot of demos drop, their customers (the customers of the dropped demos) might just turn to other demonstrators, and make up for the customers that stop buying.

Also, someone not buying Stampin' Up! or discussing this issue in an uncivil manner doesn't necessarily mean that they are sacrificing other people's livelihoods. I think that's kind of reaching. I don't think that any demo has that kind of power over most of her customers (not to mention the customers of other demos). My demo is good, but usually cannot change my mind about what I have already decided to buy (or not to buy).
If I were unfamiliar with a stamp co.(and there may be one out there I haven't heard of yet) it would not be the former employees or demos that would have much bearing on whether or not I do business with them. It would be the behaviour of the Co and it's current representatives.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:40 PM   #1732
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But are your customers really up in arms over this??? I hope not, for you.

I went to a Stampin' Up! party (er, workshop) on Sunday and no one mentioned anything about this, though I was half expecting someone to. The hostess had a $475 party and ten guests with a few outside orders.

Out of the ten that were there and not including me, I know three of them have galleries here, and one (the hostess actually) actually comes on SCS nearly every day to the galleries (but almost never into the forums).

And my demo is one of those who tells her customers straight out that she doesn't like the SU! tape.

Back to what Jan said...
I really think that the actions and posts of the disgruntled demos and customers will not significantly hurt anyone's livelihood, but it just might impact SU! sales enough so that they revise the IDA again.

If it is a hobby demo who stops buying, she has not hurt any other demo's business, because she wasn't another demo's customer. Though it just occurred to me that she might hurt her upline's wallet...

I really think the ratio of customers to demos will remain about the same.
The main impact that is to be seen in this whole thing is online. Of my downline, the only one dropping is one who had totally expected and wanted to sell online only. Her business model did not work under the new IDA, so she is dropping, with no hard feelings, I might add. She's a class act!

The rest of my downline are going to sign.

Customers and demonstrators who do not spend time online could probably not care less and that part of the business will be unaffected. But in this business, every source of orders is important.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:42 PM   #1733
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But the thing is...the women business owners who are affected by the IDA...those who run this as a BUSINESS are not that bothered by the language of it. The demos I know who are in this as a business, who use this money to support their families, pay a few bills, etc....they were already compliant with the language before this whole thing started.

The ones who are objecting, for the most part, are the hobbyists and the people who have to choose between design teams and the new IDA.

My hope is that if people don't want to sign, that they at least can discuss this in a civil way without inflaming public opinion against the company. Their sister demos who actually need the money that they generate from their businesses are being hurt by the damage created by the whole war of words. And even those who don't support their families are also being hurt by this.

I only make enough money at this to cover the costs of what I spend, though I have been working on expanding my business so that I could actually help pay for things we really need, like new carpet, or something that I'd love my kids to have, like karate lessons for my son, etc. Things we have had to do without for the past few years. I wish I could say I was only in this for passion, but unless this passion pays for itself, I couldn't afford to do this at all. I'm sure there are many like me in this position. All those demos that drop? You think their money is going to go elsewhere? It may not...because if they drop there may be NO money at all. Everyone loses in that situation.

I know there are going to be people who say, "Well, that's not my fault, it's all SU!'s fault!" The thing is...it's out there. It's been done. There is no drawing it back. (And I'm not talking about you, Val, with this next statement, but a few much more vocal others.) What good does it do to get revenge on the company by making sure that customers stop buying and people stop signing up to be demos? Does hurting other demonstrators' businesses make them feel better somehow? Does being extremely vocal about why they are leaving and making sure their customers never buy SU! products again satisfy them? Does "showing SU! the power of the people" mean so much that these folks are willing to sacrifice other people's livelihoods just so they can have revenge on a company that has, up to this point, always dealt with them fairly and honestly?

I agree...the repercussions do not fit the Statement of the Heart.
Jan - as always a very thoughtful and excellent post. I agree with you in principal, but do have one comment to make that I hope you, and other SU "business" demo's will consider. I do not consider myself a "hobby" demo. I have customers, I hold classes and stamp camps, and I sell to those customers. I do not make a lot of money from my SU business because I simply do not have the time to devote to it at this point in my life. I work full time at another job that provides the health insurance, retirement and other benefits for my household as my husband is self employed. We own a retail store that is just getting off it's feet, so much of my time is also devoted to helping with that. I have continued to work my SU business as well, in the hope that before long our store would be doing well, and I would again have more time to devote to this. I am on no design teams, and quite frankly would probably not have to make a single change to be compliant with this new IDA other than to make sure I do not "promote" nonSU items in how I describe the projects I post on my very new personal blog.

However, I still object to the broad language used by SU in this IDA and will not sign it as it stands. I agree with all who have stated it was time for SU to do something regarding the promotion of non su products on the internet. This simply goes too far in my opinion, so I will be giving up the SU business, small as it may be, that I have worked on for 8 years.

Sorry to ramble... but my point? Only this - please don't think that it is only hobby demos or demo's who would have to change their current on-line activities to comply with this IDA who have reservations about signing it. I am a demo who runs this as a business, and I am bothered by the language.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:44 PM   #1734
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Jan - as always a very thoughtful and excellent post. I agree with you in principal, but do have one comment to make that I hope you, and other SU "business" demo's will consider. I do not consider myself a "hobby" demo. I have customers, I hold classes and stamp camps, and I sell to those customers. I do not make a lot of money from my SU business because I simply do not have the time to devote to it at this point in my life. I work full time at another job that provides the health insurance, retirement and other benefits for my household as my husband is self employed. We own a retail store that is just getting off it's feet, so much of my time is also devoted to helping with that. I have continued to work my SU business as well, in the hope that before long our store would be doing well, and I would again have more time to devote to this. I am on no design teams, and quite frankly would probably not have to make a single change to be compliant with this new IDA other than to make sure I do not "promote" nonSU items in how I describe the projects I post on my very new personal blog.

However, I still object to the broad language used by SU in this IDA and will not sign it as it stands. I agree with all who have stated it was time for SU to do something regarding the promotion of non su products on the internet. This simply goes too far in my opinion, so I will be giving up the SU business, small as it may be, that I have worked on for 8 years.

Sorry to ramble... but my point? Only this - please don't think that it is only hobby demos or demo's who would have to change their current on-line activities to comply with this IDA who have reservations about signing it. I am a demo who runs this as a business, and I am bothered by the language.

Good point...thanks for posting it!
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:49 PM   #1735
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No money for buying stamps. If I don't sell stamps, I don't have any money to buy them. My business totally supports my habit. If I dropped, I don't have the cash to buy anything new. Though, I probably could coast a good long way before, my wagon came to a complete halt.




I've read so many posts over the past week of demonstrators bragging that they were dropping and had told all their customers why and all those customers were going to stop buying SU! I've read posts on facebook where people said they were going to stop buying. Yes, yes, the wild rumors and speculations, and the sheer vitriole that some are spreading IS hurting demonstrators.
You know, I would read that differently. I don't think demo's are bragging. I think they are objecting to something and acting on their principles.

I think this is the same for any person who has decided that they either will purchase less from SU or purchase nothing from SU! People have principles that they choose to abide by.

For you - you are keen on SU and mainly feel that Demo's and customer's who choose to leave SU are in the wrong. That's okay.

But it's equally okay to stand on principle and choose not to be a demo or to choose not to buy SU! or purchase less SU!

It's not just SU! items that people stand on principle about.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:49 PM   #1736
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But are your customers really up in arms over this??? I hope not, for you.

I went to a Stampin' Up! party (er, workshop) on Sunday and no one mentioned anything about this, though I was half expecting someone to. The hostess had a $475 party and ten guests with a few outside orders.

Out of the ten that were there and not including me, I know three of them have galleries here, and one (the hostess actually) actually comes on SCS nearly every day to the galleries (but almost never into the forums).

And my demo is one of those who tells her customers straight out that she doesn't like the SU! tape.

Back to what Jan said...
I really think that the actions and posts of the disgruntled demos and customers will not significantly hurt anyone's livelihood, but it just might impact SU! sales enough so that they revise the IDA again.

If it is a hobby demo who stops buying, she has not hurt any other demo's business, because she wasn't another demo's customer. Though it just occurred to me that she might hurt her upline's wallet...

I really think the ratio of customers to demos will remain about the same.
As of now? No. In all honestly, probably never as 99% of my customers are French Canadians that don't speak English. Lucky for me. Some of my English Canadian and American demo friends may not be so lucky.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:53 PM   #1737
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You know, I would read that differently. I don't think demo's are bragging. I think they are objecting to something and acting on their principles.

I think this is the same for any person who has decided that they either will purchase less from SU or purchase nothing from SU! People have principles that they choose to abide by.

For you - you are keen on SU and mainly feel that Demo's and customer's are in the wrong. That's okay.

But it's equally okay to stand on principle and choose not to be a demo or to choose not to buy SU! or purchase less SU!

It's not just SU! items that people stand on principle about.
I agree that it's ok to stand on those principles and make your choices based on that. While not being directed at you specifically Debzi as i am just using your post as a jump point, what I don't agree with is some of the posts that i have seen from very angry demo's that are trying to rile other people up.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:53 PM   #1738
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No money for buying stamps. If I don't sell stamps, I don't have any money to buy them. My business totally supports my habit. If I dropped, I don't have the cash to buy anything new. Though, I probably could coast a good long way before my wagon came to a complete halt.
Ohhhh. Okay, gotcha. I was thinking of only hobby demos. Yes, I can see how business demos who drop may have no money.


Quote:
I've read so many posts over the past week of demonstrators bragging that they were dropping and had told all their customers why and all those customers were going to stop buying SU! I've read posts on facebook where people said they were going to stop buying. Yes, yes, the wild rumors and speculations, and the sheer vitriole that some are spreading IS hurting demonstrators.
But those demonstrators told their OWN customers that right? And out of all those customers, I'm thinking that at least SOME couldn't care less and will continue to buy - from other demonstrators. I'm thinking this might make up for the customers (of the demonstrators who are going to stay) who decide not to buy SU! anymore.

This is why I think that though the volume of business with SU! might decrease slightly, the ratio of customers to demos may remain the same.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:56 PM   #1739
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You know, I would read that differently. I don't think demo's are bragging. I think they are objecting to something and acting on their principles.

I think this is the same for any person who has decided that they either will purchase less from SU or purchase nothing from SU! People have principles that they choose to abide by.

For you - you are keen on SU and mainly feel that Demo's and customer's are in the wrong. That's okay.

But it's equally okay to stand on principle and choose not to be a demo or to choose not to buy SU! or purchase less SU!

It's not just SU! items that people stand on principle about.
I don't feel that demos and customers are "in the wrong". I do not agree with all parts of the IDA and have written to SU! to voice my concerns. I do not disagree enough not to sign, however. I think the policy was written broadly to cover extraordinary situations where people would try to find loopholes to keep doing what they were supposed to stop doing. I really do not think that SU! is going to read my private email, my blog or the posts I make in web forums, unless I am blatantly and openly defying the IDA.

I feel that some demos and customers are lashing out at the company...but not all of them are. I'm talking about the very few that are trying to injure the company. And they are out there.
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:59 PM   #1740
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Ohhhh. Okay, gotcha. I was thinking of only hobby demos. Yes, I can see how business demos who drop may have no money.




But those demonstrators told their OWN customers that right? And out of all those customers, I'm thinking that at least SOME couldn't care less and will continue to buy - from other demonstrators. I'm thinking this might make up for the customers (of the demonstrators who are going to stay) who decide not to buy SU! anymore.

This is why I think that though the volume of business with SU! might decrease slightly, the ratio of customers to demos may remain the same.
I sure hope so, Sophie. And no, some demonstrators are not content with telling their own customers. The article posted earlier on in the thread bears witness to that.

I may have picked up one customer from a demo that dropped...I don't know. She was going to reserve for my class and has not yet sent the cash through paypal. But I don't know why her demo is dropping for sure, so I can't say that is how it has worked. So yes, I do hope to get some customers that way. But I'd rather not have to get them that way. I'd rather they were so blown away by my awesomeness that they just flock in my direction, LOL! (JK!!!!)
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:03 PM   #1741
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BTW Sophie, I really like your signature quote! C'est vrai en maudit! LOL!
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:04 PM   #1742
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As of now? No. In all honestly, probably never as 99% of my customers are French Canadians that don't speak English. Lucky for me. Some of my English Canadian and American demo friends may not be so lucky.
Well!!! Then all my sympathy for you has dried up!!! What I wouldn't GIVE to be surrounded by French speakers all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, you guys have access to French sets that I don't!!! (some of the sets are available in French, but others, like Sense of Time are NOT - I want Sense of Time, but in FRENCH)

ETA: I mean, Sense of Time is available in French to Canadians, but not to Americans.

Also,
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BTW Sophie, I really like your signature quote! C'est vrai en maudit! LOL!
*grin* Thanks!

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Old 09-07-2009, 05:40 PM   #1743
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Well!!! Then all my sympathy for you has dried up!!! What I wouldn't GIVE to be surrounded by French speakers all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, you guys have access to French sets that I don't!!! (some of the sets are available in French, but others, like Sense of Time are NOT - I want Sense of Time, but in FRENCH)

ETA: I mean, Sense of Time is available in French to Canadians, but not to Americans.

Also,


*grin* Thanks!
LOL! Je m'excuse, mon amie! Are you from France? Well i just learned something new. I thought all sets in French were available to Americans too! Je vais me coucher moin niaiseuse ce soir!
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:57 PM   #1744
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LOL! Je m'excuse, mon amie! Are you from France? Well i just learned something new. I thought all sets in French were available to Americans too! Je vais me coucher moin niaiseuse ce soir!
Ah, non! I have only visited France twice. But those two times have embedded themselves in my heart. *sigh*

Yes, I was at an earlier SU! party (not the one on Sunday). The person sitting next to me was helping me decide which set to get. I was torn between Farm Life and the French Sense of Time. She finally said, a little confused, "Sense of Time is available in French??" So I looked closely and it WASN'T!!! Argh.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:58 PM   #1745
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Here's my opinion on the recent discussion.....

SU will survive....it always has, it always will....I also believe SU will become leaner and meaner ((and I mean that from a financial side of things!!)).

I also believe, even with the negativity all over the web....the *business* demo will probably see an increase in their sales. I for one, even if at the end of the month, I can not sign the IDA as it is written at that time.....I will still be looking for a demo I can order to re-stock some supplies. I do love their products, but can't in good faith sign a document that *I* can't abide by....hence a true business demo seeing added sales!!

I can also see that a true business demo might have a downline demo or two leave, which would decrease her income.....but, I don't believe you can blame that on the negativity on the web, but would have to blame that on the IDA. Lets face it, if it wasn't for the IDA and their belief, they would stay.....right??

From what I've seen posted, here and on the demo side....I haven't seen any true business demo's say anything about loosing customers. I've also seen that they commented about discussing this with their customers. I think that is just good customer service, and if that demo is providing good customer service, I just don't see those customers going anywhere else.

Enuf said.... Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion!!
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:00 PM   #1746
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I don't feel that demos and customers are "in the wrong". I do not agree with all parts of the IDA and have written to SU! to voice my concerns. I do not disagree enough not to sign, however. I think the policy was written broadly to cover extraordinary situations where people would try to find loopholes to keep doing what they were supposed to stop doing. I really do not think that SU! is going to read my private email, my blog or the posts I make in web forums, unless I am blatantly and openly defying the IDA.

I feel that some demos and customers are lashing out at the company...but not all of them are. I'm talking about the very few that are trying to injure the company. And they are out there.
Can you believe it? They manufacture rubber stamps for heaven's sake. I'm sad about the the I'll-teach-them-a-lesson mentality from people who aren't even demonstrators. Geez.

ps. JanJanJan....love the new avatar!! But you still live in my shadow
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:05 PM   #1747
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How about this one?

ROTFLMBO! Remember how she thought she would look more mature?? What great memories!
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:26 PM   #1748
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You know, I would read that differently. I don't think demo's are bragging. I think they are objecting to something and acting on their principles.

I think this is the same for any person who has decided that they either will purchase less from SU or purchase nothing from SU! People have principles that they choose to abide by.

So, how does someone stand on principal by just buying "less"

I can see what you are saying, I truly believe that "some" demos are acting on their principals. And, from most of what I read, the ones who are not signing because of principals are not tearing down SU or anyone around them.

There are lots of demos who are on design team and have chosen to remain on their design teams and the choice was hard for some to make and not so hard for others. But still, they made their choice and are leaving with smiles instead of frowns and waving good bye instead of shaking their fists.

Then there are the ones who are not signing waiting for and hoping for a clarification on certain points. I really respect the ones who are taking this course of action because it is so obvious from the majority of their posts that they really do want a better understanding of what SU does want from us. But even these demos are not tearing down SU and stirring the pot.

Then there are the ones who really just cannot stand to be given an ultimatum, or told what to do. I don't believe some of those are standing on principal at all but standing on stubborn pride.

Last of all we have the ones who act like they are really enjoying all of this.
They've been given reason to flame and vent and make accusations that are so preposterous that it gets laughable.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:01 PM   #1749
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So, how does someone stand on principal by just buying "less"

I can see what you are saying, I truly believe that "some" demos are acting on their principals. And, from most of what I read, the ones who are not signing because of principals are not tearing down SU or anyone around them.

There are lots of demos who are on design team and have chosen to remain on their design teams and the choice was hard for some to make and not so hard for others. But still, they made their choice and are leaving with smiles instead of frowns and waving good bye instead of shaking their fists.

Then there are the ones who are not signing waiting for and hoping for a clarification on certain points. I really respect the ones who are taking this course of action because it is so obvious from the majority of their posts that they really do want a better understanding of what SU does want from us. But even these demos are not tearing down SU and stirring the pot.

Then there are the ones who really just cannot stand to be given an ultimatum, or told what to do. I don't believe some of those are standing on principal at all but standing on stubborn pride.

Last of all we have the ones who act like they are really enjoying all of this.
They've been given reason to flame and vent and make accusations that are so preposterous that it gets laughable.

You'd have to read back to some of my other posts as well as other's posts to understand the point I am making.

No problem- think as you wish.

For me - this thread is very draining and emotional as I have good friends who have resigned as demo's , and some who have not. I have no wish to alienate them on the basis of SU! IDA. My demo I consider a friend - and I know that she is struggling with this new IDA. I will still enjoy her stamp classes and buy some SU stuff. That said - I personally have trouble with the new IDA and that will affect my purchasing practices . And that's okay. I've no wish to boycott SU - but I will explore other places for paper and inks that do not have this very restrictive IDA . To that end, yesterday I purchased 170.00 from Papertrey in paper and inks . I might have spent that money on SU! were it not for this restrictive IDA .

And at the end of this month, if my demo is still running her once a month class - I will be there and paying for my class, and enjoying myself.

I try not to be an extremist, but I do have principles. I think that's okay!
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:09 PM   #1750
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Do design teams get money from their designs?

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Old 09-07-2009, 08:12 PM   #1751
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Do design teams get money from their designs?

Stasia
Some do, some don't. Each company has their own requirements and compensation plan.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:21 PM   #1752
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Can you believe it? They manufacture rubber stamps for heaven's sake. I'm sad about the the I'll-teach-them-a-lesson mentality from people who aren't even demonstrators. Geez.

ps. JanJanJan....love the new avatar!! But you still live in my shadow
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!!!!
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:25 PM   #1753
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Do design teams get money from their designs?

Stasia

Usually, to make money designing, you have to publish. Design teams, for the most part are paid in product. If you are on a design team, you get money from the publisher for your designs and the manufacture rewards you with product bonuses and sometimes cash. If you are not on a design team, you can sometimes arrange with the manufacture to get these product bonuses or cash when your designs are published.

The other place to make money in design is to be a design team coordinator...this is usually a salaried postion, I believe.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:34 PM   #1754
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Jan Tink said "The other place to make money in design is to be a design team coordinator...this is usually a salaried postion, I believe.[/QUOTE]

PMarsh5: I don't believe this to be true Jan... it's usually for 'bragging rights'.... but I would love to hear from others who have coordinated DT's.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:00 PM   #1755
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Ah, non! I have only visited France twice. But those two times have embedded themselves in my heart. *sigh*

Yes, I was at an earlier SU! party (not the one on Sunday). The person sitting next to me was helping me decide which set to get. I was torn between Farm Life and the French Sense of Time. She finally said, a little confused, "Sense of Time is available in French??" So I looked closely and it WASN'T!!! Argh.
I'd call DS if i were you. Sometimes it's just a publishing error. It happens in the french catty all the time!
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:07 PM   #1756
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You'd have to read back to some of my other posts as well as other's posts to understand the point I am making.

No problem- think as you wish.

For me - this thread is very draining and emotional as I have good friends who have resigned as demo's , and some who have not. I have no wish to alienate them on the basis of SU! IDA. My demo I consider a friend - and I know that she is struggling with this new IDA. I will still enjoy her stamp classes and buy some SU stuff. That said - I personally have trouble with the new IDA and that will affect my purchasing practices . And that's okay. I've no wish to boycott SU - but I will explore other places for paper and inks that do not have this very restrictive IDA . To that end, yesterday I purchased 170.00 from Papertrey in paper and inks . I might have spent that money on SU! were it not for this restrictive IDA .

And at the end of this month, if my demo is still running her once a month class - I will be there and paying for my class, and enjoying myself.

I try not to be an extremist, but I do have principles. I think that's okay!
Of course it's ok, I thought everyone should have principals and I think we all do. I know I do.

For the record, I have read every post in this thread since the day it began.
I have seen that statement repeated several times and I finally just had to ask. We all know how easy it is to misinterpret or not understand what someones meaning is to them.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:14 PM   #1757
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I think it sad that I can't hint off good demo I call no less 20 deoms. And two three help out over. The pass years, but not on reg base. I jan is trying help me fine one now! I have something I am looking for in Deoms Have two come to home never really off! and I spent hours phone call deoms in my area no such luck hotwheels
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:27 PM   #1758
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I think it sad that I can't hint off good demo I call no less 20 deoms. And two three help out over. The pass years, but not on reg base. I jan is trying help me fine one now! I have something I am looking for in Deoms Have two come to home never really off! and I spent hours phone call deoms in my area no such luck hotwheels
Linda...

That is sad that you can't find a demo in your area that would help you. It is also sad that a demo wouldn't come to your house to help you. I wished I lived closer. You have come a LONG way in your stamping over the past couple of years that I've known you!!

Hang in there, hopefully there is a demo out there for you!!
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:44 PM   #1759
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Linda...

That is sad that you can't find a demo in your area that would help you. It is also sad that a demo wouldn't come to your house to help you. I wished I lived closer. You have come a LONG way in your stamping over the past couple of years that I've known you!!

Hang in there, hopefully there is a demo out there for you!!
thank Audery....

There demo come to the house but the problems I have something I wanted from deom and not found the one that can or will do those things I am strifing for. and With new rules. I think it just made search hard! and I will not quiet I came to far now! lol hotwheels

I wanted come to push me....
haung with until get
teaching me
have Instd message talk me explining things
let know going stampinup
Order from time to time
make my cardkits....
Challenge me Don't say that hard me and give up me!
I wanted these reqiredment in my deoms
I wanted deoms that going with me reg. I don't wanted oreder from this preson and preson I wanted count one with exprenece!

Last edited by hotwheels; 09-07-2009 at 09:55 PM..
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:52 PM   #1760
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Here's my opinion on the recent discussion.....

SU will survive....it always has, it always will....I also believe SU will become leaner and meaner ((and I mean that from a financial side of things!!)).

I also believe, even with the negativity all over the web....the *business* demo will probably see an increase in their sales. I for one, even if at the end of the month, I can not sign the IDA as it is written at that time.....I will still be looking for a demo I can order to re-stock some supplies. I do love their products, but can't in good faith sign a document that *I* can't abide by....hence a true business demo seeing added sales!!

I can also see that a true business demo might have a downline demo or two leave, which would decrease her income.....but, I don't believe you can blame that on the negativity on the web, but would have to blame that on the IDA. Lets face it, if it wasn't for the IDA and their belief, they would stay.....right??

From what I've seen posted, here and on the demo side....I haven't seen any true business demo's say anything about loosing customers. I've also seen that they commented about discussing this with their customers. I think that is just good customer service, and if that demo is providing good customer service, I just don't see those customers going anywhere else.

Enuf said.... Thank you for allowing me to express my opinion!!
Wow! What an awesome post! I agree with what you said. Any customers lost by a non-leaving demo due to the bad vibes would maybe be made up in customers of the leaving demos finding new demos.

It's really late. Did that make sense? If not, just read what MsAudreyAnn wrote. She said it perfectly!
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