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Old 09-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mothermars View Post
I reread the post. In an answer regarding participating in an online forum (such as SCS), SU warns that if that website promotes competing companies, the demonstrator would be violating her contract if she were to participate. SCS promotes competing companies. That means demonstrators who participate here, even if they use SU-only products, will be in violation of their contract.
Not True! Go and read it again! It says if you participate you can't LINK to it! Not that you can't participate!!!
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:17 PM   #82
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This is the passage you're looking for:

"...you should refrain from linking to the site in your other personal electronic communications, regardless of your personal activity on that forum or web site."

Not participating - linking.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:23 PM   #83
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IMHO...this is like every other change that SU has implemented. Much ado about nothing. No one likes change, but we do live in a changing world. I signed the new IDA without a second thought.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:26 PM   #84
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I get the impression from this and also from the TAC changes recently that they are moving away from "hobby demos".

I have mixed feelings about that. On the one had there are great hobby demos and they do great work that I stumble upon then decide I must have SU stuff. But that's not really what makes me buy mostly.

I mostly buy from a demo who is more serious about her SU business. Sure she's not making tons of money (well maybe she is, she's not making tons of money off of ME, haha) but she is running a business. I feel like these changes protect her.

I guess I got off track, my point is that I think the changes are in the interest of the serious business demos. I think it's not a bad idea to make your decisions in the intrest of those people.

Maybe they are pushing out the hobby demos, I know that would stink for a lot of people, but I can understand why they might want to do it.


On a purely selfish side I actually did wonder, "I wonder if this will open up some DT opportunities for me?" I mean some of my favorite bloggers are SU demos AND on Design Teams. Some might drop SU, but some I don't think will. It might be time to spruce up the old stamping resume (kidding, I don't have a stamping resume) and get ready to scoop up some DT spots. ... Then I remembered what a headache DT work is for me and remind myself how much I like buying whatever I like and not having deadlines and such.

Anyhow it will be intersting to see how it shakes out.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:30 PM   #85
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I myself will no longer be a demo after Sept. This has reinforced that decision is the correct one.
According to Demo Support - Demos will not are allowed to talk about any stamping products that are NOT SU on public forum (icluding SCS) - This is where I would not be able to follow as I use many other products. I am NOT SUO.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:33 PM   #86
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This all has me thinking i should cancel my demo order before they ship my kit. I was planning to strictly be a hobby demo. but I would like to be apart of other companies and post them to my neglected blog. SU seems way too controlling to me. Now I don't know what to do!
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:39 PM   #87
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This all has me thinking i should cancel my demo order before they ship my kit. I was planning to strictly be a hobby demo. but I would like to be apart of other companies and post them to my neglected blog. SU seems way too controlling to me. Now I don't know what to do!
I think you really have to decide how you would manage your demoship. If you want to have a personal blog and link non-SU resources, you may want to think twice.

If you are really serious about devoting any electronic avenues to only SU, then it may still be the thing for you. There are some women who have been very successful doing this.

I imagine it could be a really tough choice for some people. Others will balk at the mere fact that this restriction is being placed on them at all.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:43 PM   #88
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There are many SU demos that promote and use only SU and it is their means of income. I am sure that they are dismayed at the amount of promotion of other companies products that goes on by SU demos. I am not an SU demo but buy mostly SU, and I feel that SU is doing what it needs to do to promote their product and protect the demos that are loyal to the company, especially in this economic climate. Shelli has said on her blog that the demos are the most important part of the company.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:50 PM   #89
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There are many SU demos that promote and use only SU and it is their means of income. I am sure that they are dismayed at the amount of promotion of other companies products that goes on by SU demos. I am not an SU demo but buy mostly SU, and I feel that SU is doing what it needs to do to promote their product and protect the demos that are loyal to the company, especially in this economic climate. Shelli has said on her blog that the demos are the most important part of the company.
So I guess SU is only thinning the ranks ~ as I would venture to guess that SUO successful demos don't do the 'bad' restricted stuff anyway...

Frankly, I appreciated my demo that would let me know that I could get an item cheaper some other place ~ built tons of "GoodWill" & I used the money to buy the 'exclusive' SU items...
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:53 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by wagleg View Post
There are many SU demos that promote and use only SU and it is their means of income. I am sure that they are dismayed at the amount of promotion of other companies products that goes on by SU demos. I am not an SU demo but buy mostly SU, and I feel that SU is doing what it needs to do to promote their product and protect the demos that are loyal to the company, especially in this economic climate. Shelli has said on her blog that the demos are the most important part of the company.
I'm failing to see how this promotes SU!'s product by restricting their available market.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:54 PM   #91
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Okay, I will throw my $.02 into the pot.

It is sad, very sad.

It is another thing to divide us. Another boundary. Another "us" and "them".
I really hate what it is doing to the crafting community AND the heart wrenching decisions my dear friends are facing.

very sad
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:57 PM   #92
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So I guess SU is only thinning the ranks ~ as I would venture to guess that SUO successful demos don't do the 'bad' restricted stuff anyway...

Frankly, I appreciated my demo that would let me know that I could get an item cheaper some other place ~ built tons of "GoodWill" & I used the money to buy the 'exclusive' SU items...
I don't think my demo ever minded anyone getting a like item anywhere else, especially when you can use those 40% off coupons. I also don't think people are blind and they can make up their own minds. Some might buy something with SU because they are trying to get hostess sets, etc.
I guess it does seem like thinning the ranks, although I'm sure a lot of other companies are doing the same thing. Like another poster said, I couldn't wear a tshirt to work with a competing companies advertisement on it.
It seems like we are reverting to the days of loyalty matters.

Also, I was listening to Newsbreak over on Paperclipping.com from the June 29th episode. They were talking about Cosmo Cricket and the fact that people had to have blogs to apply for their design team and that designers need to walk a very difficult line when promoting companies in an atmosphere that they also use for personal communication.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:59 PM   #93
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The first thing I said when I went into SU this morning and read this messages, was just what Allee's said....."Stampin'up just shot themselves in the foot again" What ever happened to " To love what we do and share what we love" I think that SU had better re write that and add " As long as Stampin'up says it's o.k.
I have been a demo for going on 4 years, but this is just getting way toooo close to communist rule.
I wish all of you demos out there who are going to hang in with SU, all the best, and good luck, your going to need it.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:01 PM   #94
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To answer the question from post #16....How do they police personal blogs? SU does look around, and if they don't catch you, there are plenty of people who LOVE SU and will be happy to turn you in for your violations. They don't have to do all the policing themselves.

I found a demo on line who I bought through because she always had specials going. Another demo turned her in and she got a spankin' about how she ran her specials. She had asked SU about the specials herself and had not gotten an answer from them. Once the other demo reported her the answer was NO and she was punished on top of it.

SU used to be just about the only game in town and now there are so many other companies that want a share of the crafters budget. I do believe items like this belong on the public side. I can think of one uber talented SU demo in particular who is on many other Design Teams. If she dropped all the teams suddenly, I would wonder what had happened. Now I can only guesss she'll drop SU instead. It will be interesting to see who stays with SU and their discounts and who goes with other companies free stamps and supplies.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:02 PM   #95
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I'm failing to see how this promotes SU!'s product by restricting their available market.
I don't see that they are restricting their market. They are basically ensuring that their product is getting top billing within the community that buys their product. I don't really think that this is going to stop demos from telling customers that they can get something at Mike's cheaper. I think that they are saying don't advertise your ***Scrapbook paper, stamps, etc on your blog, etc. while stating that you are an SU demo.
I would expect the same thing from many companies.
My husband works for Nokia, I doubt he would be where he is if he and promoted an LG or Samsung phone.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:05 PM   #96
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I don't think my demo ever minded anyone getting a like item anywhere else, especially when you can use those 40% off coupons. I also don't think people are blind and they can make up their own minds. Some might buy something with SU because they are trying to get hostess sets, etc.
I guess it does seem like thinning the ranks, although I'm sure a lot of other companies are doing the same thing. Like another poster said, I couldn't wear a tshirt to work with a competing companies advertisement on it.
It seems like we are reverting to the days of loyalty matters.

Also, I was listening to Newsbreak over on Paperclipping.com from the June 29th episode. They were talking about Cosmo Cricket and the fact that people had to have blogs to apply for their design team and that designers need to walk a very difficult line when promoting companies in an atmosphere that they also use for personal communication.
But that's just it a 'personal' blog is not work.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Erin K View Post
I get the impression from this and also from the TAC changes recently that they are moving away from "hobby demos".

I guess I got off track, my point is that I think the changes are in the interest of the serious business demos. I think it's not a bad idea to make your decisions in the intrest of those people.

Maybe they are pushing out the hobby demos, I know that would stink for a lot of people, but I can understand why they might want to do it.
Again, I am a hobby/demo and feel that this may be what they are attempting to do as well. HOWEVER this goes totally against what was said in one of the mini-catalogs or at convention the year before (I can't remember where/when it was said) by Shelli herself, that there is no such thing as being 'just a hobbyist demo', and that EVERY demonstrator is important to stampin' up and to the SUP family and to be proud of the demonstrator you are!" I remember these words because it did make me feel more accepted as a demonstrator, albeit a hobbyist!

I think they are just trying to keep customers from seeing other potential items available for purchase (like scorepal) from other companies! As they say, out of sight, out of mind.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:05 PM   #98
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I am probably repeating someone here...and if so...sorry!! I read it all but what really stands out in my mind is:

If SU is going to tell demos to stop promoting other companies or linking to blogs that promote other companies do they REALLY THINK it will improve SU's sales??? What a joke...my first reaction would be to quit being a demo if I hadn't already. I think it will hurt sales among those of us who really have widened out. I usually end up deciding I need an SU product because of a link FROM SOME OTHER COMPANY's DT member who used an SU item in her project. LOL Of course there are die-hard SU customers, but they aren't affected by these links anyhow.

Yep...as someone else said...SU is shooting themselves in the foot!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:09 PM   #99
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You can't FORCE people to be loyal to you...it is earned! This is NOT how you earn that loyalty. SU has just asked a large percentage of their FREE advertisors to stop advertising!! That was just plain DUMB!!!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:09 PM   #100
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I think this thread is in the interest of all of us, demos, customers, future customers, and especially those who can't get onto the demo threads but are thinking about becoming a demo. I think it is funny that some have posted it is wrong to post or comment here and even start your post that way then continue to comment. Which is it?

My previous demo had to quit b/c she has a pretty big vinyl business but now that Stampin UP has introduced vinyl she can't do both even though she had been selling vinyl years before SU. I do continue to buy SU products but I find that they are getting ridiculousin some of their policies. I can understand stamps, papers, but their are soooo many products that can be used to enhance or embellish that SU doesn't sell. I just don't get it!!!

Another thing, demos who post here only make me want to go out and buy more SU. Especially when they are posting preorder items. I don't think SU has thought this all the way through.

Sorry, one more thing, how do they or will they keep up with it? Well, they can't keep up with it all obviously; however, their will be mad demos who abide all policies and will turn others in. SU will then can the wrong doers as demos. NO second chances.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:09 PM   #101
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Quote:
Like another poster said, I couldn't wear a tshirt to work with a competing companies advertisement on it.
Yes, but on your PERSONAL time outside of work, you can wear what you want. I once worked a temp job at the local Pepsi plant. Inside the building, you could not drink Coke products. The delivery guys could not drink Coke products while wearing their uniforms. However, on your personal time, those restrictions could not be reinforced. The office staff could go out to (unpaid) lunch and order Coke and no one was telling them that they couldn't go to their nephew's graduation party that weekend if Coke was being served (even if they didn't drink it). The graduation party scenario, to me, is the same as a personal blog.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:11 PM   #102
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Wow! The SU regs make fascinating reading - I just got into stamping over a year ago and the one thing that hooked me was the friendliness of stamping folk, the willingness to exchange ideas and information and the freedom of choice that there is. I've lost count of the things i've bought 'cos i saw them on so and so's blog.

I feel that competition is good for everyone, keeps folks on their toes and opens up avenues for everyone, I love variety, my fave blogs are those where folks use loads of different product, I love to see new things constantly (bit of a magpie...).

My point is, the more I see, the more I want to see...I like a big old jumble of blogs pointing in every direction, I revel in the choice!! bet loads of others do too...

I don't think it's fair to curb folks creativity by restricting them to one product line. Nuff said.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:12 PM   #103
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Share your feelings with Stampin Up! They may compromise.

The Angel Company came out with some changes, that the demos were not happy with. TAC Angels emailed and called the Corp office, and the Angel Company listened, and changed/compromised some of the changes.

Let your voices be heard!

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Old 09-01-2009, 01:17 PM   #104
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I was a loyal SU customer now I go with mostly PTI but still love SU's DP. Seeing products here on SCS and personal blogs is what gets me to call my SU demo and place an order.

I love to see how others use the SU products not just the creativity of one person complying with SU no tolerance for other industry standouts policy.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:21 PM   #105
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Absolutely contact your headquarters! We did get policy changes made and it was all to the better!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:24 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesiana View Post
Okay, I will throw my $.02 into the pot.

It is sad, very sad.

It is another thing to divide us. Another boundary. Another "us" and "them".
I really hate what it is doing to the crafting community AND the heart wrenching decisions my dear friends are facing.

very sad
I could not agree more. I thought stamping was supposed to be fun and a way to express myself. I do not want a company telling me what I can/cannot do and where/where not to post. So sad...
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagleg View Post
I don't see that they are restricting their market. They are basically ensuring that their product is getting top billing within the community that buys their product. I don't really think that this is going to stop demos from telling customers that they can get something at Mike's cheaper. I think that they are saying don't advertise your ***Scrapbook paper, stamps, etc on your blog, etc. while stating that you are an SU demo.
I would expect the same thing from many companies.
My husband works for Nokia, I doubt he would be where he is if he and promoted an LG or Samsung phone.
They are restricting their market.

They are basically eliminating hobby demos and current SU demos with varied interests
They are eliminating contact with the "outside world" if that world involves products other than their own.
They are eliminating their employees having any electronic communication - not just blogs and blog links that is email, facebook, twitter and talking about anyone else's product.

Is your husband going to be fired because you spoke about the competition? That is basically what these regulations infer for the SU! demo - guilt by association.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:35 PM   #108
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First of all, I personally don't think this should be being discussed on the general side, it's a demo issue...flame me for it if you want, whatever...

Second, it doesn't really surprise me, SU! is a business and it's goal is to make money. What business would be ok with employees promoting competing merchandise, etc. I work at a hospital, there are two in town...I can't go to work wearing a t-shirt with the other hospitals logo on it. I know it's not the SAME thing exactly but you get the gist. While it does kind of suck, it's not the worst thing ever, people will cope and adjust.

Finally I don't see what all the doom and gloom about SCS coming to an end is. From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) we can still post our cards here, we just can't link them to our blog or send people here from our blog (or FB or whatever it may be). And speaking of my blog, I have NO idea why I or anyone else would ever promote non-SU projects anyway...I want people to BUY IT ALL from me Personally I use only SU products anyway, it's just easier for me to match everything together and I don't waste money on stuff that I'm not sure what to do with or what to match it with.

So flame me for my comments if you want...I can take it. I'm sticking with SU!
I don't understand this. Why wouldn't you tell a customer that with a coupon they could buy this item cheaper at Michael's or Hobby Lobby or wherever? If someone did that for me, I would definately be appreciative for someone else looking out for my money and not just their own checkbook. That would be when loyalty, spending more money with that demo comes in. I am a firm believer that if you look out for your customers/clients, they will take care of you!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:39 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Joan B View Post
oh, some of my favorite blogs are devoted to SU products! You should check out JanTink's blog. I don't have the link ready but really, it is amazing. And Andrea Walford. you can google them. so creative and well done!
There's a web site I have bookmarked which has several sections of blogs/websites and one of them shows the blogs which are SU only. I go there quite often.

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Old 09-01-2009, 01:50 PM   #110
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SU has just asked a large percentage of their FREE advertisors to stop advertising!! That was just plain DUMB!!!
Absolutely. Just the other day I was reading a thread here on Flower Soft. One gal, who happened to be a SU demo, linked to her blog with examples of how she used Flower Soft on some of her cards.. the images were SU. Had I not gone to that SU demo's blog that was linked from here on SCS, I would not have wanted or ordered the SU stamp set she posted. That would have been one less sale for SU (and if you know me, I don't just order one item!!~ ) It's truly unfortunate that SU is doing this. The days of SU being the main company are LONG gone. Now without all the exposure from personal blogs and Facebook, I can't imagine they will do anything but lose out.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #111
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I don't understand this. Why wouldn't you tell a customer that with a coupon they could buy this item cheaper at Michael's or Hobby Lobby or wherever? If someone did that for me, I would definately be appreciative for someone else looking out for my money and not just their own checkbook. That would be when loyalty, spending more money with that demo comes in. I am a firm believer that if you look out for your customers/clients, they will take care of you!
I used to run my business this way. I used to tell all my customers they could go to Michael's or any other big chain craft store and buy that item with a coupon. If they frequented the store they appreciated it so much that they would always come back and order more exclusive SU products from me. They appreciated the fact that I wanted them as customers and not just their checkbook (hopefully that makes sense). With that being said I am no longer an SU demo because SU changed way toooo many rules that were in favor for the high money making sellers and made it hard for me to continue my business. If I was a demo now I would quit in a second. No body but nobody tells me what I can do in my free time. SU is not the only stamping company out there.

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Old 09-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #112
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I could understand SUP wanting demos to limit their representing other companies on their blogs if they were SOURCED from Stampin' UP, like the Demonstrator websites. Ok, let me clarify that, make it a bit clearer....

IF we were paying SUP! $5.00 a month or even $5.00 a YEAR to host our blog (like blogspot does for FREE) then I could see them saying, don't post Stampin' Bella on your SUP BLOG.

BUT these are our personal blogs! I mean, I just posted pics of my son's going-away pictures to college on there, I share my creativity on there, express my love for art and jewelry on there! IT IS MY BLOG. Uh, hello? Ever hear of freedom of speech? Didn't we join SUP to have our own business and to lead it where we wanted it to go? And if what we share on OUR PERSONAL BLOGS are also items from other stamp companies isn't that still Creating, Inspiring, SHARING??

They need to change their LINE TO:

Inspire, Create, Share ONLY SUP PRODUCTS!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:58 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by MikiBee View Post
Absolutely. Just the other day I was reading a thread here on Flower Soft. One gal, who happened to be a SU demo, linked to her blog with examples of how she used Flower Soft on some of her cards.. the images were SU. Had I not gone to that SU demo's blog that was linked from here on SCS, I would not have wanted or ordered the SU stamp set she posted. That would have been one less sale for SU (and if you know me, I don't just order one item!!~ ) It's truly unfortunate that SU is doing this. The days of SU being the main company are LONG gone. Now without all the exposure from personal blogs and Facebook, I can't imagine they will do anything but lose out.
This got me to thinking of the flip side of this issue - SU wants to have a "One Way Only" communication by not having links that would suggest other companies. But what about all the blogs for other products that link to SU blog info? I'm sure they love that. That is what's great about two-way or multiple lines of communication - it benefits everyone.

So, do bloggers who are not SU demos but use and mention their products in their posts stop giving them free advertising? Where does this end? Yikes!
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:59 PM   #114
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Competing is everywhere. Even if you have the new gadget in town...eventually someone else will copy it or improve on it and there you go a bigger better version. That is business. I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is when said business that I'm promoting becomes so restrictive that I can't link to my friend's blog because she sells CTMH, or another stamping company product??? And she's been my friend for 25 years? Or my mom or my sister, etc?

I mean really. There comes a point like a poster said, it's not about trying to wipe out competition by not mentioning other competitors. It's about seeing what the others offer and offering that and making it better.

I love Target, but I can't buy fruit at Target so I go to my local Henry's or Farmer's Market. And I will drag my butt to Costco for one item simply because I can get pizza and a churro for under $5 bucks when I'm in the mood for it and GAS cause it's convenient.

SU offers products that some people will always buy. That is what they should build on.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:01 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Mrs Nickel View Post
They need to change their LINE TO:

Inspire, Create, Share ONLY SUP PRODUCTS!
*snort*

But seriously--they make it hard for me to be a loyal customer, now.
Again, it is very sad.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:12 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Mrs Nickel
They need to change their LINE TO:

Inspire, Create, Share ONLY SUP PRODUCTS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesiana View Post
*snort*

But seriously--they make it hard for me to be a loyal customer, now.
Again, it is very sad.
Haha, this just made me think of George Orwell, who wrote 1984 - "Big Brother", also wrote Animal Farm, famous for the animals who overthrow the humans to have equality, using the slogan "All animals are equal". In the end, the pigs decide to become the new rulers and modify that slogan to "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:27 PM   #117
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I think you have to compare apples to apples and realize that all direct sales companies have boundaries like the ones SU is laying down. All they are asking us not to do is directly link our design work to a store to buy what we just designed. To me, it's all part and parcel to what I signed in the first place when I said I would not sell for the competition. If you ask me, this too shall pass. We may lose a few in the wake, and that's sad, and I sympathize with those who have difficult decisions to make, but in the long run, Stampin' Up! has changed my life, and I am forever grateful to a company that I have found, does listen. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:30 PM   #118
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I think that is just sad. First prices in the Canadian SU catty's rose up to 25 % - and our dollar at about 93 cents on the US dollar. That turned me off SU as a Canadian buyer.

I know my demo has had some misgivings with SU. This just smacks of Big Brother. They are going to lose more and more of my business. It's nice to deal with an ethical company. And SU is getting less and less that way. I like how most of the SCS member companies here are not exclusive to one another - they are happy to have challenges where you use other's products. I wonder why SU is so afraid ? I respect companies like Stamping Bella, Gina K, MFT , Crafty Secrets and many others who are kind to each other and run challenges here on SCS where on can use any product. Those are the kind of companies that I want to deal with.
As for SU having some of the best products - I would question that!
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:31 PM   #119
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Well said, Karen. Us angels are not allowed to sell or promote the competiton, ie: home party rubber stamp/scrapbooking businesses. Nor are we allowed to link directly to a competitor as such. But we can say we got this item at Michaels or Hobby Lobby if we do not carry it.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:32 PM   #120
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What ever happened to " To love what we do and share what we love" I think that SU had better re write that and add " As long as Stampin'up says it's o.k.
Ha. Perfect.

It certainly does seem they want to pretend they are the only company in town. I know if I had not seen all the lovely samples on SCS, I would not have ordered from SU. But, shhh, don't tell your customers about SCS, because then they would know other companies existed! Of course, I love the fact that Shelli has the "don't be mean in your comments!" thing on her blog, so maybe in Shelli's Stampin' Up land, as long as you can control everything, there is one stamping company, everyone leaves gushing comments on your blog, and everyone rides unicorns through a chocolate forest.
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