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Old 09-04-2009, 08:49 AM   #921
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Originally Posted by RiverIsis View Post
I always thought it was compliment too that people wanted to buy the product but not in that set up.

I personally think that any stamp company should look at selling bare rubber, ezmount or mounted as options. Yes it might take a little reorganization, however it is probably one of those situations that after you did it you will wonder why you didn't earlier.
That's totally how I felt after I unmounted all my rubber! Man, I love all the space I reclaimed and the fact that I can use a clear block and place that stamp image exactly where I want it.

Wheels are da bomb unmounted! I don't have to buy the little cartridges, I get good, even ink coverage every time and it's mch easier to put even pressure all the way across the image. Love it!


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Old 09-04-2009, 08:49 AM   #922
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I always thought it was compliment too that people wanted to buy the product but not in that set up.

I personally think that any stamp company should look at selling bare rubber, ezmount or mounted as options. Yes it might take a little reorganization, however it is probably one of those situations that after you did it you will wonder why you didn't earlier.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:50 AM   #923
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I'll explain my perspective. I think it has been addressed but people don't want to accept it. It seems like people expect SU and only SU to be all things to all people and that's an unfair expectation. I have asked and never gotten an answer on this...I like wood mounted rubber. I don't know why...LOL Now, if I like a stamp I buy it (God knows...) but given the choice I will pay more. My Elzybells are all wood mounted. Anyway, would it be fair for me to constantly go on about TAC and CTMH not offering what I want? I have stamps from both companies. TAC is um rubber and CTMH is clear. Would I *LIKE* to be able to get what I want from them? Of course but that's not their thing so if I like an image I get it in whatever forum. How long would it take before the TAC or CTMH girls were like, yeah, we get it, you LIKE wood but I.do.not.sell.that. LOL

The other thing is it would hurt SU to offer both (which is why CTMH and TAC don't have both a clear and um rubber option). There is only so much space in a warehouse. If there is space for say 100 stamp sets and you want another option (clear or unmounted) then they need another space. So you'd have to go to having 50 stamp sets but they would take up the same 100 spaces. That's why SU retires stuff every year.
It was not my point to have the "everyone else is doing it" attitude. I really do understand there may be a space issue. Now here comes the however, if they offered unmounted - rubber only - also, and the mounted with wood was cut down, they probably would actually save on space. They obviously wouldn't double the inventory...just split it up. I also understand that everyone has a personal preference for whatever reason. I believe I just read if SU was not wood mounted they would quit being a demo. I don't think any one company can be everything to everyone, that is why there is competition and choices. Therefore, if no company can be everything to everyone, why would one even contemplate they can be and integrate such limitations?
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:52 AM   #924
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I would be completely okay with an unmounted option as long as it wouldn't decrease the number of sets they offer. But, from what they've said in the past there are only so many spots on the picking lines so if every stamp set has two spots on the picking line they would have to lower what the variety of stamps they can offer in order to allow unmounted (which would be silly since no one has to mount their rubber onto the wood blocks).
If they offered only unmounted with no wood I would quit being a demo, but I would leave with no hard feelings knowing that SU made what they thought was the best business decision for long term viability but that my needs and their product no long coincided.
Now you see, I've never heard that said and it makes sense.

I used to have a misconception about the packaging process - that they could "pick" only the stamps. Well that would be ridiculous. Of course the package (stamps, blocks and labels in the case) is assembled earlier in the process and is what's being "picked" so I can see why that will never happen.

And your sense of what you would do if they did go unmounted shows me how reasonable you are, too. Thanks for taking the time to explain their reasoning .
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:57 AM   #925
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From an organizational perspective - if SU (for example) put (a)their stamps in packaging and (b)the blocks in the case, they should take the same space side by side in the warehouse. For example -the order pull can be Stamp 1029098a (rubber only) or 1029098b (stamps&blocks) - FTR the inventory code is just a random example.

The other company examples you listed are bare minimums so you could always buy your own wood blocks for the rubba and mount them. The clear you are just going to have to learn to love
My understanding is each item gets it's own spot for inventory control so they wouldn't put two items in one box. And then I could say but I don't WANT to order blocks (which I've done LOL) because I don't want to pay the shipping or have to worry about the right size or wait or whatever.

But yeah, I learn to love it. I'm not going to quit buying elzybells just because she went unmounted, my girls love them. Which reminds me...I have checked to see if she's had anything new in a while
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:57 AM   #926
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Now you see, I've never heard that said and it makes sense.

I used to have a misconception about the packaging process - that they could "pick" only the stamps. Well that would be ridiculous. Of course the package (stamps, blocks and labels in the case) is assembled earlier in the process and is what's being "picked" so I can see why that will never happen.

And your sense of what you would do if they did go unmounted shows me how reasonable you are, too. Thanks for taking the time to explain their reasoning .
No problem I try to be reasonable. I just try to remember that SU is a business, and if I want to continue getting my awesome stamps and demo perks they have to stay in business. If someday their business goals and my stamping needs no longer meet I will leave happy knowing that I've enjoyed years of stamping and getting more stamping supplies than I would ever be able to afford without being a demo.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:58 AM   #927
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I find it very telling that at least two demos that I know of with law degrees are leaving. Those without law degrees might want to think about that.

Just as an alternative, I want to state that I am also an attorney, I have read the new IDA and I have signed the same.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:59 AM   #928
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I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread, so many have so much to say! So I just want to add in my 2 cents.

I do not like the new changes. I am a SU demo, and I love being a demo, I love the product, I love having workshops, I love (and need) the extra income.

When I host stamp clubs & workshops, I use nothing but SU! product, but when I am making projects for my own creative outlet, I have recently started branching out and incorporating other companies & products. And listing them in my gallery as well as on my blog, like I do for all the projects that are original to me.

What bothers me most, is a matter of personal principal, I think it is disrespectful to use someone elses art (in stamp form) and not give them credit for it. So if I decide to continue with Stampin Up, personally I will have to stop using all other products, because if I were the creator of something, and someone did not give me or my business credit, it would be offensive to me, so I would not do that to someone else, knowing if it were me I would be offended.

Also, the new IDA is not going to weaken or grow my business one way or another - my customers are not my customers because of my blog, they are my customers because of personal relationship.

I have not decided if I will continue with SU or not. If it were based on character of the company alone - I would stop. But unfortunately, I have to consider the income as well - I feel like I am compromising my character and personal beliefs by even considering staying.

Hugs to you. I know it's a very tough choice for those with as much integrity as you. I totally agree with you about giving credit where credit is due, and full credit means brand names. SU wants people to say something like "patterned paper" instead of "Cosmo Cricut Cosmo Cogs paper." How would SU like it if someone used one of their papers and listed it as "patterned paper"?

I hope SU makes more revisions and you can stay on with a clear conscience.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:00 AM   #929
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The Demo Forum is a little odd to me. I mean currently SCS has no ties with SU! so I wonder why they would host an entire private forum for them. Even making it an open forum would seem fine to me, or having a whole "direct sales chatter" forum where direct sales persons could chatter about TAC, CMTH, SU, whatever.

I understand why Demo's would want someplace to discuss stuff without us normals butting in, where they can share plans for new products we don't know about yet, where they can vent to each other in a way that doesn't put up an ugly face to their customers. Whatever the reasons I totally can see why they would want it.

I just don't see why it's something that SCS would want to host anymore. I honestly think that SU should host that, maybe they do, I'm not an insider.

ON the other hand for whatever reason SCS does continue to host it, so I would encourage any SU! demo to take advantage of it. It's not hurting me any, as a normal, non-demo member of SCS. So I don't really care either way if they continue the demo side.

I don't really like when this type of discussion comes up and demo's try to say that it should only be discussed on the demo side. There are a lot of customers who care deeply about SU and it's policies. At the very least almost everyone here has a friend, online or in real life who is a demo. Many of us occasionally consider signing up. And lots of us are customers. Also we are all crafty people, and this is big crafty news. Of COURSE we will want to discuss it.

Anyhow those are my feelings. Much love to all the SU! demos who are deciding or who have already decided what to do about the new contract. Best of luck in whatever you choose.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:02 AM   #930
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It was not my point to have the "everyone else is doing it" attitude. I really do understand there may be a space issue. Now here comes the however, if they offered unmounted - rubber only - also, and the mounted with wood was cut down, they probably would actually save on space. They obviously wouldn't double the inventory...just split it up. I also understand that everyone has a personal preference for whatever reason. I believe I just read if SU was not wood mounted they would quit being a demo. I don't think any one company can be everything to everyone, that is why there is competition and choices. Therefore, if no company can be everything to everyone, why would one even contemplate they can be and integrate such limitations?
I think SU attracts demos who like wm. Just like CTMH attracts demos who like clear. I would quit being a demo if the didn't have wood. Just because I don't LOVE the other options, you know? I would still be a customer for sure but I don't know that I would use them enough to justify.

I just each of these companies has their *thing* and I'm not going to tell a company to change their *thing* just because I don't prefer it. If I like an image and it's not available in wood then I either don't get it or I get it and deal (either by stamping UM if I'll only use it sometimes or putting it on an extra block or something).
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:03 AM   #931
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I wish the best for everybody in this situation.

Personally, I'd really like to see Bobby Ewing step out of that shower right now.
Okay, you just got me in trouble (well not really trouble). I am a work and sneaking a peak. and am ROFL!!!!
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:05 AM   #932
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SU's shipping of unmounted stamp sets would only go down if the price of an unmounted set was less than the price of the same set mounted (which, logically, it should be). SU calculates shipping rate by order total $, not by weight.

They probably get charged by weight from their shipper, though, so SU would save money there (both in shipping and packaging). I remember the boxes would have the weights on the labels, so weight means something to someone along the line somewhere. If not SU, then UPS cares about it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:06 AM   #933
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Just as an alternative, I want to state that I am also an attorney, I have read the new IDA and I have signed the same.
Cool, because I didn't know that. So do you think there is a contractor/employee issue on the 24/7 commitment?
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:09 AM   #934
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It's available only to those who are SU! demonstrators who have applied as such for entrance to the SU! demo forums.
I understand that it's for Demos only...I am a SU Demo... at least for now
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:10 AM   #935
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My opinion on this is.....((please don't flame me, its my feelings on it))


SU should have their own site (out on the web) with demos having their *business side*....along with TAC, CTMH, CM and all the other crafting companies....again, like I said.....unless they wanted to pay for that service here at SCS.

Just my penny's worth today!!
I pay to support SCS. Do you really think SCS would want all the SU demos to go to another site?
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:12 AM   #936
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The Demo Forum is a little odd to me. I mean currently SCS has no ties with SU! so I wonder why they would host an entire private forum for them. Even making it an open forum would seem fine to me, or having a whole "direct sales chatter" forum where direct sales persons could chatter about TAC, CMTH, SU, whatever.
I think there is demo forum for two reasons.
1. SCS was started as an SU demo wanting to support her downline.
2. SCS gets a lot of traffic from the demo forums that most likely helps with ad dollars.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:12 AM   #937
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I think SU attracts demos who like wm. Just like CTMH attracts demos who like clear. I would quit being a demo if the didn't have wood. Just because I don't LOVE the other options, you know? I would still be a customer for sure but I don't know that I would use them enough to justify.

I just each of these companies has their *thing* and I'm not going to tell a company to change their *thing* just because I don't prefer it. If I like an image and it's not available in wood then I either don't get it or I get it and deal (either by stamping UM if I'll only use it sometimes or putting it on an extra block or something).
Oh we are seriously getting OT however, I don't think even the unmounted bare rubba proponents want SU to go completely unmounted - well I don't because I understand there is a market for WM. It would however, be interesting for them to trial a stamp in both forms and see what customers go for and advertise it as an option and see what customers go for - even maybe make a big deal and have a poll showing so many stamp sets and asking people to vote on which one they would be unmounted in the next catelogue. It has excellent marketing potential.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:12 AM   #938
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I understand that it's for Demos only...I am a SU Demo... at least for now

I think this may be the place to get the info and apply:

http:////www.splitcoaststampers.com/...d.php?t=411469
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:15 AM   #939
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I would just like to throw in my 2 cents regarding why customers should even care about the new IDA. As a customer, I choose how and where to spend my money. For me, I can not continue to endorse a company whose policies I find oppresive and offensive. I can certainly understand restricting business web sites, however, when you step over the line and dictate personal blogs, Facebook, twitter, etc. I simply cannot support that. I was deeply saddened by the news and feel sorry for all of the demos who have to make a very difficult decision - my heart goes out to you.

For me, I am just the type of person who will NOT financially support a company whose policies I am so opposed to. Therefore, I did email SU and let them know I could no longer buy their products. I believe it is important to be informed - which is what this forum allows us to do. Everyone has to decide what is best for them, for me however, my decision was an easy one.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:16 AM   #940
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Cool, because I didn't know that. So do you think there is a contractor/employee issue on the 24/7 commitment?
No, I don't think there are any legal issues/problems with the contract as written and neither did the labor/employment attorney who I discussed this with.

Many companies place restictions on the "off time" activiteis of those who represent the company. In my opinion, what it all boils down to is are you willing to abide by the restrictions the company wants to place. If the answer is yes, then there is no problems/issues with being associated with the company. If the answer is no, then you should choose not to associate with the company. I would also add, that what is acceptable for some is not acceptable for all and that is ok.

My two issues with this thread are:

1. I really can't understand the "general public's" interest in what is essentially a contract issue between a company and it's representatives. JMHO, but my thoughts notheless. Does if matter to me what restrictions Coke puts to its employees...lI can say with 100% conviction NO. Those restrictions have no impact on my decision to buy Diet Coke.

2. I am bothered by the minority of posters here that seem to suggest that because I have chosen to accept the new IDA that I have "sold out" given up all of my personal freedoms, am a blind lemming, etc.

I am an intelligent businesswomen. I, of course, read the contract before deciding to sign the same, I fully understand the legal ramifacations and I am willing to accept those in order to remain a SU demonstrator.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:18 AM   #941
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Now you see, I've never heard that said and it makes sense.

I used to have a misconception about the packaging process - that they could "pick" only the stamps. Well that would be ridiculous. Of course the package (stamps, blocks and labels in the case) is assembled earlier in the process and is what's being "picked" so I can see why that will never happen.

And your sense of what you would do if they did go unmounted shows me how reasonable you are, too. Thanks for taking the time to explain their reasoning .
SU could back up a step, though, and package the stamps differently before they even get to the shipping warehouse. SU makes the stamps, they can do it the way they want. Right now they obviously want to offer sets only with wood. I've read that friends of the SU owners own the farm the wood comes from, so that may have something to do with the footdragging about changing the system.

Rubber into a ziplock bag and coordinating wood into the clamshell. Each with a different item number, as earlier suggested (part A and part B). Some will order both A and B, some will order only A. It would not take twice as much room, because those thin baggies with just the rubber would take up very little space (comparatively). It would take some more room, but that's part of the investment into improvement or upgrades or just "new" that all companies should make.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:18 AM   #942
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I think there is demo forum for two reasons.
1. SCS was started as an SU demo wanting to support her downline.
2. SCS gets a lot of traffic from the demo forums that most likely helps with ad dollars.
1. I don't know that that is a valid reason to continue hosting the forum as SCS is no longer owned by that SU demo. I DO see though that they may just not want to take something that a lot of their members value and I can support that.

2. Never having had access to the Demo forum I can't say how much of a percentage of the traffic it gets. I'd think that general stampers generate more money because they are more likely to actually clikc on the ads and participate in member company forums and such. But I agree that may be a factor.

Thanks for answering me.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:18 AM   #943
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I don't think I am ever going to get to the end of this thread, so I guess I will just post what I am feeling now...lol

I stated many pages back that I am very sad about all that is going on. As a hobby demo who was maybe looking to expand, (if it happened, great, if not, oh well!) I am still VERY sick about all this. I love to papercraft. Be it cards, scrapbook pages, or altered items. I have been doing this for 7 years. I have been a demo for 5 months. But, I will say that it was being a part of a SU card club 7 years ago, that my love affair with papercrafting began. And, with every item I create, my love grows more and more. Stamping is my thereapy, my escape. Papercrafting helps me in dealing with my mother's death. A lot of my supplies are things that she bought for me, and herself. Everytime I use them, it brings me joy that in my creations her spirit lives on. I feature A LOT of it on my blog, and nothing of hers is SU. And, mostly because of her, (lol) I can appreciate a good sale at any of the many craft stores that I visit regularly.

I probably would not be where I am today, had it not been for that first SU card club. SU has excellent products. My decision to become a demo was based on that. (the discount didn't hurt either!) But, even with the revision, or 'clarification', I still have a sour about the whole thing. I have read everything over and over, I even got to page 19of this thread, and I just can't explain why I feel uneasy. The new IDA really won't affect me, what I do with my blog, or maybe even what I planned to do in the future. Something just feels off, and I wish with all my heart I could put my finger on what and why. I have spoken with my husband about this over and over, and like most men it is very black and white. Don't like it, just leave. I don't know if I can just do that. I feel like I would be letting my friends down that I have introduced to this fabulous hobby. I feel like I would be letting my mom down, who always taught me to see things through, even when it's hard. And, mostly I feel like I would be failing myself.

I understand that I signed a contract in the beginning. I read that contract several times before I signed it. Although I HATE being told what to do, I understand what was expected of me. However, I draw a line in the sand where my personal life is concerned. Which brings me to today...

Today, I am sad. Sick, even. I can't bring myself to even LOOK at ANY of my stamps, paper, and various other of my tools and supplies. I get sad all over again. I don't know what to do next. I'm so confused.

Sorry that was so long, thanks for 'listening'...
Tifflynn76, I don't usually leave an entire quote up - lots of space! But it's worth seeing it here again. My heart goes out to you. I know you feel like you're being asked to make a choice that you feel challenges your integrity and pulls at your emotions, and you obviously have taken papercrafting to your heart. I was touched by what you shared about your Mom and the part her memory plays in your hobby.

I hope you can find a place where you can live with the changes SU is making. Really, the revisions are a tremendous improvement over the original new IDA. But I completely understand why you aren't sure which way to go. Because some of us are pretty independent souls and it's hard to accept what a business relationship may ask of us. Only you can make that choice. I hope in some way the conversation here has helped you.

Take a deep breath. Take a step back. Frankly, if you feel you can't sign it now, don't let the deadline be your guide. Let your heart and mind be your guide and you can always go back to SU if you find you can live with their choices after all.

Sometimes in this thread we get caught up in semantics and tangents, but in the end this really is such a personal decision for demos and potential demos. And in some cases, customers.

Tifflynn76, I will remember your story and remember you in my thoughts as I pursue my art today and for the days to come, I am sure. I'm not a sappy kind of person but you touched me. You'll do what's right for you ~ you will figure that out.

Just remember, papercrafting brings you joy -- don't lose that no matter what you choose. {{{ hugs }}}
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:22 AM   #944
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Colleen,
For myself I'm interesting in the contract issue for reasons I've stated. I enjoy the blogs of several SU demos, I'm interested to see what changes are made, I've often considered signing up, so I like to know what that would mean for me, I have friends who this affects and I care about them.

The LEVEL of caring seems extreme to me in some cases. I guess I just don't see this as unethical. I mean if SU was forcing puppies and kittens to give their lives for my stamps I would stop buying for ethical reasons. But changing a demonstrator contract, although that may be upsetting for the contracted people it's not enough for me to boycott the company.
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Last edited by Erin K; 09-04-2009 at 09:24 AM.. Reason: had to take out "probably" I'd DEFINATELY stop buying SU if they killed puppies and kittens
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:24 AM   #945
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I would just like to throw in my 2 cents regarding why customers should even care about the new IDA. As a customer, I choose how and where to spend my money. For me, I can not continue to endorse a company whose policies I find oppresive and offensive. I can certainly understand restricting business web sites, however, when you step over the line and dictate personal blogs, Facebook, twitter, etc. I simply cannot support that. I was deeply saddened by the news and feel sorry for all of the demos who have to make a very difficult decision - my heart goes out to you.

For me, I am just the type of person who will NOT financially support a company whose policies I am so opposed to. Therefore, I did email SU and let them know I could no longer buy their products. I believe it is important to be informed - which is what this forum allows us to do. Everyone has to decide what is best for them, for me however, my decision was an easy one.
Exactly.
There are certain 'brands', companies, etc. that I 'boycott' due to how/what they run/support the company/their choice of charities.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:25 AM   #946
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I think SU attracts demos who like wm. Just like CTMH attracts demos who like clear. I would quit being a demo if the didn't have wood. Just because I don't LOVE the other options, you know? I would still be a customer for sure but I don't know that I would use them enough to justify.

I just each of these companies has their *thing* and I'm not going to tell a company to change their *thing* just because I don't prefer it. If I like an image and it's not available in wood then I either don't get it or I get it and deal (either by stamping UM if I'll only use it sometimes or putting it on an extra block or something).
I, for one, prefer not having to deal with the wood. I can see many more benefits for not having it than having it. I buy stamp sets from SU and I just use easy mount. I am pretty sure I am not alone in that. My point is that look how much much money over the course of time that could be saved by myself as well as others if other options were available. Which, in turn would be more money I would have to spend.

Also, I would just like to say, as long as there are companies who change policies - which is their perogative - there will be people who work for them who are not comfortable and/or disagree with the changes. I don't feel that anyone can fault either side. I have made changes in my own company that my employees didn't like. I also let them voice their opinions. Some new policies were implemented and some were disregarded. I, as a business owner welcome input and do listen, but that's just me.

I would really just like to see a resolution to all this for everyone's sake, company, demos, and customers equally.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:27 AM   #947
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I think this may be the place to get the info and apply:

http:////www.splitcoaststampers.com/...d.php?t=411469

I know this is off topic but I just wanted to say that I think you've handled yourself very well throughout this entire thread. You seem to be taking a lot of heat for your decision and I don't think it's fair. I wish you luck in whatever you do and will always faithfully follow your blog.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:28 AM   #948
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I pay to support SCS. Do you really think SCS would want all the SU demos to go to another site?
Alot of PEOPLE support SCS......and member stamp companies support SCS......SU doesn't....((to my knowledge anyway!!))
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:35 AM   #949
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I know this is off topic but I just wanted to say that I think you've [11Valerie11] handled yourself very well throughout this entire thread. You seem to be taking a lot of heat for your decision and I don't think it's fair. I wish you luck in whatever you do and will always faithfully follow your blog.
I'll second that!! Hang in there, Val.

Actually.. we've seen some class acts on both sides of the fence .
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:36 AM   #950
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I would just like to throw out one other thought on the issue of control over "personal" communications. On the internet NOTHING is 100% personal or private. Anything sent/posted/tweeted/etc has the ability and potential to go viral and have huge ripple effects. SU is merely trying to control the ripples made by those who have voluntarily agreed to represent them.

On this issue, last year I went to freshman orientation when my youngest entered HS. Having already successfully gotten one child through HS I felt that there really wasn't much that I needed to hear. But the one thing I heard, that was dramatically different from when my oldest entered HS 5 years earlier was that we should be sitting down and discussing with our child to be careful about what they post to their My Space/Facebook pages. The warning was NOT for what I would have thought to be the obvious issue of cyber-bullying (though that is another problem with unregualted/free speech on the internet) but instead that now college recruiters are checking out potental students pages and that admissions and/or scholorships decisions have been affected by what ther ecruiters/admissions officers read. Thus for me, at least, it makes common sense that a company I represent wants to excert a level of control over what I publish online, whether it is though a paid site that they post or my own personal/private internet communications.
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Last edited by STAMPINGODDESS; 09-04-2009 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: Gosh I'm a poor typtist!
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:40 AM   #951
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I'll second that!! Hang in there, Val.

Actually.. we've seen some class acts on both sides of the fence .

We sure have... and you're one of them. You started this thread and stated your opinions without anger or malice. I respect that.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:48 AM   #952
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We sure have... and you're one of them. You started this thread and stated your opinions without anger or malice. I respect that.
I think there are many who have expressed opinions without anger or malice. It is difficult for one to type and have everyone reading it know without a doubt the feelings behind it. Once again, that is left up to interpretation as well.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:50 AM   #953
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Why are they sick of it??? I don't think SU should go clear even though I buy a lot of stamps that way. But I am buying a lot less stamps, and at some point probably none from SU, because I feel I'm paying for a lot that I don't use -- blocks and cases. And the shipping charges are ridiculous and should be less without mailing all that wood around.

I'm sorry - I know I've said this really isn't a discussion about every thing that someone may think SU does wrong but maybe you just gave us the answer as to why they won't sell just the stamps to those who want them: the demos don't like it. Hmmm... maybe they shouldn't always listen so well to the demos and listen to customers/potential customers instead.
How can SU listen to you if your are not contacting them
Do you realize, all of you that keep bringing up the subject of going unmounted, that you as an American citizen, have the freedom and the Right to contact SU all on your own, by the thousands if you so choose, by going to their website and hitting the "contact us" button?

If you all do this, you will probably have to becomes demos yourself though because if they did make the change, (which they should if they hear from enough customers) a huge amount of demos they now have will leave.

I am one of those demos that does not want to go unmounted, but, if this is what is needed, if this is what the majority really do want, then by all means that is what SU should do.

I would be one that could not demo that product, but then, it wouldn't matter because I would realize that my time as a demo was up, and I would be able to leave without anger or bitterness just because they made decision that did not suit "me" and I could very easily move on with my life and be thankful for the great time I did have as a demo.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:59 AM   #954
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I pay to support SCS. Do you really think SCS would want all the SU demos to go to another site?

I pay to support SCS too and my company has no special privileges. Just sayin'
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:01 AM   #955
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I think there are many who have expressed opinions without anger or malice. It is difficult for one to type and have everyone reading it know without a doubt the feelings behind it. Once again, that is left up to interpretation as well.

I agree.... there are so many people who came out and voiced their opinions on both sides of the coin with very well thought out, intelligent posts.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:03 AM   #956
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I would just like to throw out one other thought on the issue of control over "personal" communications. On the internet NOTHING is 100% personal or private. Anything sent/posted/tweeted/etc has the ability and potential to go viral and have huge ripple effects. SU is merely trying to control the ripples made by those who have voluntarily agreed to represent them.

On this issue, last year I went to freshman orientation when my youngest entered HS. Having already successfully gotten one child through HS I felt that there really wasn't much that I needed to hear. But the one thing I heard, that was dramatically different from when my oldest entered HS 5 years earlier was that we should be sitting down and discussing with our child to be careful about what they post to their My Space/Facebook pages. The warning was NOT for what I would have thought to be the obvious issue of cyber-bullying (though that is another problem with unregualted/free speech on the internet) but instead that now college recruiters are checking out potental students pages and that admissions and/or scholorships decisions have been affected by what ther ecruiters/admissions officers read. Thus for me, at least, it makes common sense that a company I represent wants to excert a level of control over what I publish online, whether it is though a paid site that they post or my own personal/private internet communications.
Great Info, and thanks for sharing it.
My son works in internet security.......He has warned me time and again that people think their "private" email is just that, or their facebook, when infact it is not at all and so many people are throwing info around that is going to come back to bite them.
The majority of us are too enthralled with all this open communication and it's convenience and we have no idea what some of the ramifications can and "will" be.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:06 AM   #957
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SU's shipping of unmounted stamp sets would only go down if the price of an unmounted set was less than the price of the same set mounted (which, logically, it should be). SU calculates shipping rate by order total $, not by weight.

They probably get charged by weight from their shipper, though, so SU would save money there (both in shipping and packaging). I remember the boxes would have the weights on the labels, so weight means something to someone along the line somewhere. If not SU, then UPS cares about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just to let you know that The Angel Company which sells unmounted Rubber stamps.

They charge for shipping $6.95 up to $69.50 After that it's 10% of the total order.

So see it isn't any cheaper than Stampin Up!
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:15 AM   #958
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No, I don't think there are any legal issues/problems with the contract as written and neither did the labor/employment attorney who I discussed this with.

Many companies place restictions on the "off time" activiteis of those who represent the company. In my opinion, what it all boils down to is are you willing to abide by the restrictions the company wants to place. If the answer is yes, then there is no problems/issues with being associated with the company. If the answer is no, then you should choose not to associate with the company. I would also add, that what is acceptable for some is not acceptable for all and that is ok.

My two issues with this thread are:

1. I really can't understand the "general public's" interest in what is essentially a contract issue between a company and it's representatives. JMHO, but my thoughts notheless. Does if matter to me what restrictions Coke puts to its employees...lI can say with 100% conviction NO. Those restrictions have no impact on my decision to buy Diet Coke.

2. I am bothered by the minority of posters here that seem to suggest that because I have chosen to accept the new IDA that I have "sold out" given up all of my personal freedoms, am a blind lemming, etc.

I am an intelligent businesswomen. I, of course, read the contract before deciding to sign the same, I fully understand the legal ramifacations and I am willing to accept those in order to remain a SU demonstrator.
Yes - Employers tell employees what they can do in their off time all the time. However, demos are independent contractors and aren't covered by employer/employee laws.

Personally, I am concerned with company/labor relations and have been for many years so if I see something that I perceive to be overstepping in favor of corporations it does concern me.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #959
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Default A few thoughts~

I left for a spell to take my daily walk with my pooch - waited a bit too long as it was 91 degrees and now both of us are hot and sweaty. One of the things that walking every day does is allow me to think about things in the quiet of my own thoughts, hash things around without distractions.

Today my thoughts were on this topic. A crack has formed between many, demo and customer alike, that Sticky Strip, Scor-Tape, Mono Multi, etc. will not be able to repair, or it's a temporary fix and life will go on but with a residue left behind. For others, this new agreement is another wooden block for them be able to build their business even better and stronger. It's up to each person to decide what is best for them and to be respected for it.

Then I ventured into this topic; If the rumor I heard is correct and all these new changes have been formulated since an Artisan Award gathering at convention in July, then this really was a knee jerk reaction to a problem and maybe not thought through as completely as it could have/should have been before they went public with it. Maybe they wanted it to coincide with the end of a business quarter, who knows?

And finally, my thoughts turned to demo only forums, general forums, combining all together, et all. If the demo forums are a valuable resource for an SU! demo, then maybe there ought to be an associated demo forum annual membership for the exclusivity of having their own forum. After all, Member companies do pay to have their own forum, Fan Club member do pay to see a special gallery, but by and large, many come here for free. If there is 10% Fan Club participation I would be very surprised. I'd be pleasantly surprised and happy for SCS if there was more than this amount, but not being in the know, I have no idea. I do know that if you want to play golf at that private club, there is a club fee to do so, same with the tennis club, swim club, etc. Exceptions would be to demos who put on an SCS hat while they are here, like Belinda, for example, who is not only a demo but a mod here, as well.

Anyways, these were my thoughts. Now it's time to go and revisit my vacation last week to Catalina Island and start making our vacation scrapbook.

Enjoy this wonderful weekend ahead!
V.~
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:30 AM   #960
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Yes - Employers tell employees what they can do in their off time all the time. However, demos are independent contractors and aren't covered by employer/employee laws.

Personally, I am concerned with company/labor relations and have been for many years so if I see something that I perceive to be overstepping in favor of corporations it does concern me.
Yes, acknowledge that SU demonstrator are independent contractors and that the laws governing independent contractors and employees are different (though from a legal standpoint the same division of our large law firm handles both areas) but there any overlapping and similarities between the two.

As I said, I did review the contract, I did the discuss the terms with another attorney in our firm I did not find anything unlawful/unenforeceable or even legally overreading in the contract.

Are there portions of the contract that some would find objectionable? Well of course there is, otherwise we wouldn't be on page 25 in this thread and who knows what page the thread on the demo side is up to! However, it truly boils down to a personal decision that each current and future demonstrator must make. This company wishes to exert control over an aspect of our communications for the good of the company and we, as intelligent women must decide with those controls/conditions are ones with which we can live and follow. SU is NOT the be all and end all for everyone. I don't honestly think that they want to be, any more than any other large corporation.

Life is full of choices and consequences and we must be willing to accept the consequences of our choices and not necessarily criticize our neighbor because their choices and our choices are polar opposites.
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