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Old 09-04-2009, 08:10 AM   #881
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actually it does affect more than just demos.
It affects customers who are thinking of becomeing a demo.
it affect design teams.
it affects other comapnies that are not going to get the credit they themselves deserve
it affects customers that follow certain blogs.
it affects family members/friend who are linked to a demos blog

SO you see this is not just a demo issue.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:11 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by WineWomen&Stamps View Post
This post is great too. lol

I'm not a fan of acrylic (clear) stamps, but I really like using rubber with an acrylic block. If some SU demos are tired of hearing about it all the time, I agree with the weird cat hat poster that that means more and more people are using unmounted and clear stamps. Maybe SU should look into that and not just get peeved that they're tired of hearing the suggestion all the time?
Ya see, lapom?! It makes quite the impression !!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:13 AM   #883
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Ummm, maybe you didn't get my point. I know I'm in the general forum, but it gets very irritating that every single discussion about SU ends up talking about them going unmounted and/or clear. And, most of the time it is completely off topic. So, a lot of demos choose to stay in the demo forum for reasons like that (and to keep the general forum from being clogged up with SU business threads) not because we have any deep desire for a "special clubhouse". I wasn't saying you couldn't have an opinion, or that you were bashing SU.

Anyway, like most business decisions this will anger some demos and make others happy. I'm not worried about the long term longevity of SU. And, I for one am very happy that demos can not longer have the perks of being a demo, and at the same time promote, link, and sell for competing companies. Because, once they are on the internet they don't just hurt their own business but other demos' businesses are affected as well.

Excuse me but I most certainly "got your point". And the only thing off topic here is your response to my post. The fact that you're irritated about consumers discussing SU going clear/unmounted has nothing to do with what I said or why I said it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:13 AM   #884
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I am not trying to bash SU in any way shape or form. I do like what they have to offer which is why I was considering being a demo. I don't think it is wrong for anyone to voice opinions whether they are for or against anything. If SU is so concerned about their bottom line like I keep reading, why don't they cut costs and help to save some trees and stop using all the wood blocks? Don't we as papercrafters kill enough trees with all the paper we use already?
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:13 AM   #885
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Oh, yes! You're right, Cindy, but there's a BUT! However easy it is to create new gallery categories in PhotoPost (or as we lovingly refer to it, "BigelowPost"), it's *not* easy once you have thousands of gallery categories like we do. Things start getting funky and wonky the bigger that database gets. Scott's awesome at making things work, and hopefully we'll have a better gallery goin' on sometime soon. Of course, that's Splitcoast "soon", not Jenn soon, so we'll just have to hang in there and see what happens!
Whoa. Jenn, you all recently made some awesome improvements to the gallery! It's amazing and I personally have no complaints!! You all do a fantastic job .
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:14 AM   #886
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grrrrr.... doubled again...
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:15 AM   #887
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Ya see, lapom?! It makes quite the impression !!
Thanks for the laughs. The little guy makes me laugh!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:16 AM   #888
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I don't think I am ever going to get to the end of this thread, so I guess I will just post what I am feeling now...lol

I stated many pages back that I am very sad about all that is going on. As a hobby demo who was maybe looking to expand, (if it happened, great, if not, oh well!) I am still VERY sick about all this. I love to papercraft. Be it cards, scrapbook pages, or altered items. I have been doing this for 7 years. I have been a demo for 5 months. But, I will say that it was being a part of a SU card club 7 years ago, that my love affair with papercrafting began. And, with every item I create, my love grows more and more. Stamping is my thereapy, my escape. Papercrafting helps me in dealing with my mother's death. A lot of my supplies are things that she bought for me, and herself. Everytime I use them, it brings me joy that in my creations her spirit lives on. I feature A LOT of it on my blog, and nothing of hers is SU. And, mostly because of her, (lol) I can appreciate a good sale at any of the many craft stores that I visit regularly.

I probably would not be where I am today, had it not been for that first SU card club. SU has excellent products. My decision to become a demo was based on that. (the discount didn't hurt either!) But, even with the revision, or 'clarification', I still have a sour about the whole thing. I have read everything over and over, I even got to page 19of this thread, and I just can't explain why I feel uneasy. The new IDA really won't affect me, what I do with my blog, or maybe even what I planned to do in the future. Something just feels off, and I wish with all my heart I could put my finger on what and why. I have spoken with my husband about this over and over, and like most men it is very black and white. Don't like it, just leave. I don't know if I can just do that. I feel like I would be letting my friends down that I have introduced to this fabulous hobby. I feel like I would be letting my mom down, who always taught me to see things through, even when it's hard. And, mostly I feel like I would be failing myself.

I understand that I signed a contract in the beginning. I read that contract several times before I signed it. Although I HATE being told what to do, I understand what was expected of me. However, I draw a line in the sand where my personal life is concerned. Which brings me to today...

Today, I am sad. Sick, even. I can't bring myself to even LOOK at ANY of my stamps, paper, and various other of my tools and supplies. I get sad all over again. I don't know what to do next. I'm so confused.

Sorry that was so long, thanks for 'listening'...
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:16 AM   #889
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Great post!
This is when I wish SCS had the like/dislike option they have over at Facebook so I could give you a big thumbs up !!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:17 AM   #890
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I understand about the overhead, etc., but it has to be spent wisely. Look at the auto industry and AIG, etc., lately where the gov't has had to bail them out because of CEO perks. SU is privately owned and so it's a different playing field, but again, I think that this is their way of reducing that overhead in demo perks with this new IDA. Competition is fierce but what they're doing is sending a lot of people to the competition. Customers are more loyal to their demos, not the company.
To add to your statement.. isn't it ironic that new SU demos could buy their starter kits for a great price of $85 (which I envied!!) until August 31st...and then the new IDA comes out?? What are new demos thinking about all this negativity? Very suspicious timing of it all... IMO
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:17 AM   #891
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I just want to address the accusation that the demo forums are full of posts about non-compliance of other demos. This is a flat out lie. It usually only comes up when one demos lack of compliance is hurting another demos business. Believe me you don't want the general forums junked up with a bunch of threads about running SU businesses.

I love the new IDA, and I'm not the only demo out there that happily signed the new IDA and sent it in.
yes and most of the just report it replies are, I think, peoples way of saying holy crapola, just report it and don't interrupt the rest of us with it LOL

There are a few that actively look for violators and feel like they have an ethical obligation to turn everyone in but I think you could count them on one hand (or at least the ones who post).
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:18 AM   #892
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I think most demos don't come to GS for the same reason I rarely do anymore, it seems like anytime there is something happening with SU a group of people use it as an excuse to bash the demos and the company. To be fair, the same thing happened when TAC changed their policy although to a lesser extent. These are businesses, they have to do what they can to survive and grow and yes, thrive.

We can't all have things exactly as we want them. Val, you talk about the demo forums being catty (which I disagree with) but you didn't mind availing yourself of the demo forums when you wanted to post about being cased without credit. Was that catty? I didn't think it was, I thought you had a legit issue with another demo and you dealt with it among demos. Now that you have no use for that forum anymore SCS should get rid of it?

As for SU slapping SCS, I think people are trying to bash SU under cloak of defending SCS. and whip people up into a frenzy over it. SU's decision had to do with their bottom line I'm sure and wasn't a "slap" at anyone. SCS DOES benefit from having those demo forums. I'm not very tech savvy but all of us visiting the demo side and the gallery increases traffic tremendously. That (I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong) helps in terms of ad fees and I'm sure traffic was looked at when the site was sold. What do you suppose the point of CE or the entertainment forums are? Traffic stays here instead of going off to a news site or a site for a t.v. show.

Was it a slap in the face to SU or to the demos who helped make this website what it is by visiting and sending customers when SCS added member companies and started posting ads? No, it was a business decision. Ask Daven if he got up one morning and said I'm going to lure people away from that evil SU and those demo(n)s today. TODAY I will start allowing ads on the site for other companies *insert evil laugh*

I'm sure it was more like: website bills gotta get paid, need dough, try ads

The bottom line is this, this affects demos. I don't know why customers have such an issue. This is a contract demos have with the company. Many companies have contract that regulate what employees or contractors can or can't do, even in off time. If you're losing your demo then I can see being upset but ultimately it's her choice.

I think you're working your SU business or your not. If you are then you're probably not promoting other companies and if you're not then why should you be entitled to work for a company without really working? If you're a hobby demo and you want the discount because this is fun, then nothing changes for you. You just do your thing and you're not promoting or selling for anyone either way. I mean, it might be nice to be helpful and let people know where you got something but if your intent is just to share ideas and post for your family or yourself then it doesn't matter that you can't say "go here to buy this awesome Sugar Nellie stamp" does it?

To address this, this was YEARS ago, and not against a customer, against a fellow demo who CASED me for an SU! convention sample display. Not just a gallery posting, but for a board at convention as part of a select group of demos who were asked to create samples and who all signed an agreement that all designs were original and theirs. How do I know about the contract? Because the following year I signed the contract and provided samples for convention. So the circumstances are different, I was not bashing a customer up from the generals, as is the case many times; not all, and certainly not every post, but enough times to take notice that demos feel very secure about posting negative things about customers. Would they post the same thing in general? I think not.

And, being years ago, when SCS was legitimately, for all basic purposes by extension, an SU! site by the nature of how it was originated, things were different.

Now, with the addition of all the Member Companies and the 1000's upon 1000's of posts, both forum and gallery, it is no longer the case. So just as SU! has the right to change their views and policies, so does SCS and by extension, those who pay and support this site.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:18 AM   #893
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There was a comment earlier regarding the SU Demo side of SCS ~ something to the effect that if that was dissolved then all the 'special groups' should be dissolved as well ~ but maybe SU demo shouldn't be the only ones who can have a 'special' group ~ let TAC & CTMH & even CM (since there is a growing love of scrapping) have their 'special' groups as well...
My opinion on this is.....((please don't flame me, its my feelings on it))

The demo side (forum on SCS) for SU should be dissolved. Yes, I understand that this site originally was formed for SU. But, as we all know.....other stamp companies are now present!! Just take a look at the member companies, and take a look through the gallery!! Times are a changing!!

SCS means crafting to me with no limitations. There shouldn't be a business side on SCS for any particular stamping company ((unless, just like the member stamping companies....want to PAY for that service!!))

SU should have their own site (out on the web) with demos having their *business side*....along with TAC, CTMH, CM and all the other crafting companies....again, like I said.....unless they wanted to pay for that service here at SCS.

Just my penny's worth today!!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:18 AM   #894
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Why are they sick of it??? I don't think SU should go clear even though I buy a lot of stamps that way. But I am buying a lot less stamps, and at some point probably none from SU, because I feel I'm paying for a lot that I don't use -- blocks and cases. And the shipping charges are ridiculous and should be less without mailing all that wood around.

I'm sorry - I know I've said this really isn't a discussion about every thing that someone may think SU does wrong but maybe you just gave us the answer as to why they won't sell just the stamps to those who want them: the demos don't like it. Hmmm... maybe they shouldn't always listen so well to the demos and listen to customers/potential customers instead.
Why would one get sick of it? Has anyone said so much that they wish PTI would go rubber instead of clear just as an example. I am a demo and a customer and while,yes, I would love them to offer an unmounted option, in no way would I ever want them to go clear. I may be alone or in a mionority but I honestly would rather have rubber instead of clear. And as far as prices go, yes they are a bit up there, but for an example, I just went to a stamp expo and paid $6 for one unmounted, no ezmount on the back stamp. The only reason I bought it was because it was an image I liked and would work well with some of my SU stamps. So it was my choice to pay a big price for it. But in perspective it does make the sets seem more reasonable. I also picked up a set of unmounted stamps on ezmount for $23. There are 6 stamps in the package and the mounted ones were $5 more with the wood on them. So I saved a few bucks by buying the unmounted and it will save me storage room also. And looking in the SU catalog at a set with the same number of stamps and about the same size it would cost me $25.95. I know this is off topic, but just an example. Not meaning to be miserable about any of this, just wanted to give a bit of perspective on a couple of the most common issues when it comes to SU. On a final note, I like PTI and it wasn't meant to be negative against them, just using it as an example.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:18 AM   #895
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Oh, yes! You're right, Cindy, but there's a BUT! However easy it is to create new gallery categories in PhotoPost (or as we lovingly refer to it, "BigelowPost"), it's *not* easy once you have thousands of gallery categories like we do. Things start getting funky and wonky the bigger that database gets. Scott's awesome at making things work, and hopefully we'll have a better gallery goin' on sometime soon. Of course, that's Splitcoast "soon", not Jenn soon, so we'll just have to hang in there and see what happens!
Oh I know Jenn and I don't want to leave you with the wrong impression. I was coming from the admin POV of just setting up or typing in the categories and subs, certainly not maintaining them. That's entering the twilight zone.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:20 AM   #896
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Wow! And I think this most excellent post was overlooked by some and was definitely along the lines of what I was posting over 24 hours ago and along the lines of what Cindy has also posted. (I think Cindy has me blocked because I asked her to calm down in a thread a few months ago, so if one of her friends wants to let her know about these posts that would be fine)

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My husband predicted something like this was going to happen when I talked about becoming a hobby demo. He asked if lots of women became a demo just to get the good deal on the cheap package they recently offered and then to get the 20% discount and maybe share the discount with friends. Yes, I think that is true, I told him. He said from a business standpoint, at some point SU would figure out that that was hurting their bottom line. He also asked if some people do that and also shop other places. The answer again was yes and he said he foresaw 2 things happening, 1-making it harder for people to use SU and other products in the way they now enjoy using them (together on their blogs) and 2-running off the hobby demos without saying it in so many words by making things so difficult for them that they would not want to stay. He said this is business politics at their finest. Try to look like the good guy but money and greed are the bottom line so never really say what the problem is. Just run off those that don't produce and take business from the producers at a discount.

Here we are!
I agree that this was a way to get their demos to audit themselves out of the picture and kill many birds with one stone
  • Can't win blogging awards with other products featured if it isn't allowed.
  • Can't link to the competitors for better buys when our own warehouse is overflowing with that product
  • Will find out who supports our business unquestioningly - i.e. loyalty. and get those out of our company who question us.
  • Will control ALL electronic correspondence of all our demos even though they are technically contractors* and not employees and will do this without any investment in their ability to be on-line.
  • Will "allow" some links but won't put that in writing (the contract is already out there and signed by some) so if corporate change their mind they can enforce it and say that the other was good will and they are now enforcing their original stance.

*Thanks for the info on contractor v employee - I think this could be interesting IF someone would choose to legally pursue it.
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Then you would be an employee and not an independent contractor...thus she would need to pay taxes and such on each of you. I think. In fact, I am pretty sure because that is what my hubby is and we pay our own taxes as an independent contractor.
If I was going to give all this up I would want more than a 20% deal

Someone earlier listed all these types of companies - Tupperware, Mary Kay, Partylite, Longerberger etc - the one thing they have in common is a majority of women as independent contractors. This isn't a mistake. Women are in general more flexible about giving up benefits and rights for the good of others.

I think all of the demos should step back before they sign anything and maybe even run the contract past someone "legal" because you are giving up some personal freedoms here without any financial guarantees unless you invest in the company to get your 20%. Go to any employment advice site at the moment and there will be warnings about work from home schemes that require money up front. Do I think SU is that - not overtly as they have a track record of providing the product, however, I do think they are starting to teetor dangerously close to that edge by restricting personal freedoms of their independent contractors.

I find it very telling that at least two demos that I know of with law degrees are leaving. Those without law degrees might want to think about that.

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Old 09-04-2009, 08:20 AM   #897
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WineWomen&Stamps--Why couldn't I come up with such a cool name? I love it!
Thanks! (The wine have played a part in the creativity of the name. )
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:23 AM   #898
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There was a comment earlier regarding the SU Demo side of SCS ~ something to the effect that if that was dissolved then all the 'special groups' should be dissolved as well ~ but maybe SU demo shouldn't be the only ones who can have a 'special' group ~ let TAC & CTMH & even CM (since there is a growing love of scrapping) have their 'special' groups as well...
I can't, for the life of me, find the SU demo only forum.. can someone send me the link please??
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:23 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by meluvstampin View Post
actually it does affect more than just demos.
It affects customers who are thinking of becomeing a demo.
it affect design teams.
it affects other comapnies that are not going to get the credit they themselves deserve
it affects customers that follow certain blogs.
it affects family members/friend who are linked to a demos blog

SO you see this is not just a demo issue.
DTs will have no shortage of talent, I'm sure
What do you mean companies can't get credit? For what? I guess I don't see why they need credit if I'm just blogging for family?
customers continue to follow who and what they want. Just because I might not have a link to Magnolia or Impression Obsession doesn't mean people can't go to their websites. What you're saying is those companies can't get the free advertising they would have gotten from me before (I don't really mean me LOL I don't have a blog) and is that what people are upset about? We can't put links to advertise for other companies?
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:25 AM   #900
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I can say that I am with the competition and I come here for inspiration. I love all the stamp companies work that is shown and I love to be inspired by us all.

I hope that continues. I love that some SU, CTMH, CM, TAC demos like to share with each other too!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:25 AM   #901
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I can't, for the life of me, find the SU demo only forum.. can someone send me the link please??
It's available only to those who are SU! demonstrators who have applied as such for entrance to the SU! demo forums.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:25 AM   #902
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I think it is sad that demos and SU would rather go someplace where they may not hear/see this discussion than addressing it. Maybe there is a reason for staying with wood blocks. I personally think it wouldn't hurt business any if there were other options.
I don't mind a thread being started about SU going unmounted. What gets tiring is trying to have a fun thread about a new catty for example, and have it completely overtaken by a why don't they go clear/unmounted debate. It derails so many great SU threads. I just wish some people would realize that while you are welcome to have an opinion that SU go unmounted it may not be what everyone else wants to talk about everytime SU comes up.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:27 AM   #903
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Wow! And I think this most excellent post was overlooked by some and was definitely along the lines of what I was posting over 24 hours ago and along the lines of what Cindy has also posted. ([SIZE="2"]I think Cindy has me blocked because I asked her to calm down in a thread a few months ago, so if one of her friends wants to let her know about these posts that would be fine.
I unblocked you a while ago. Surprisingly enough, I've actually agreed with everything you've said on this thread! You are so right about the dangerous teetering. Like I said earlier, we need a Bobby Ewing moment! Have a great weekend girl.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:30 AM   #904
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Why would one get sick of it? Has anyone said so much that they wish PTI would go rubber instead of clear just as an example. I am a demo and a customer and while,yes, I would love them to offer an unmounted option, in no way would I ever want them to go clear. I may be alone or in a mionority but I honestly would rather have rubber instead of clear. And as far as prices go, yes they are a bit up there, but for an example, I just went to a stamp expo and paid $6 for one unmounted, no ezmount on the back stamp. The only reason I bought it was because it was an image I liked and would work well with some of my SU stamps. So it was my choice to pay a big price for it. But in perspective it does make the sets seem more reasonable. I also picked up a set of unmounted stamps on ezmount for $23. There are 6 stamps in the package and the mounted ones were $5 more with the wood on them. So I saved a few bucks by buying the unmounted and it will save me storage room also. And looking in the SU catalog at a set with the same number of stamps and about the same size it would cost me $25.95. I know this is off topic, but just an example. Not meaning to be miserable about any of this, just wanted to give a bit of perspective on a couple of the most common issues when it comes to SU. On a final note, I like PTI and it wasn't meant to be negative against them, just using it as an example.
Hi ... I don't want to get deep into the OT stuff, but I had this conversation with someone else recently. I would expect ANY company to switch from rubber to clear or vice versa (unless of course they are just starting up and make the switch, like Verve Stamps did). Rubber/clear is a huge change!!

It's the discussion of, well, I paid $6 for a bare rubber stamp... To me, if I love the image and it's calling my name ~ well, I'll buy wood-mounted, etc. You can't compare this way. I'll make it clear by an example. In the new SU holiday mini there is one awesome stamp set of snowflakes. Gorgeous snowflakes. Love them!!! In the upper right corner of that page is a sheet of rub-ons. I know that there are lots of places I can get pretty much the equivalent of the sheet of rub-ons in STAMPS for the same price as though four gorgeous snowflake stamps. Then I have a hard time convincing myself that I must have that snowflake set. You can't just go by stamp count in a set. Yep, lots of SU sets break down per stamp to a similar price to what I pay for some bare/cling-mounted stamps -- but I would NOT pay that $5 or $6 for ALL of the stamps in that set. Sometimes a stamp in a set is a teeny tiny nothin' stamp. (gosh I feel like apologizing to the stamps!) You know what I mean?

The point is, a lot of people are starting to appreciate the option of "mounted/unmounted." A lot of companies are providing that choice. And we wouldn't keep asking if we didn't love a lot of SU stamps!! Really. It's actually a compliment that we care at all.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:31 AM   #905
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I'm sorry - I know I've said this really isn't a discussion about every thing that someone may think SU does wrong but maybe you just gave us the answer as to why they won't sell just the stamps to those who want them: the demos don't like it. Hmmm... maybe they shouldn't always listen so well to the demos and listen to customers/potential customers instead.
I would be completely okay with an unmounted option as long as it wouldn't decrease the number of sets they offer. But, from what they've said in the past there are only so many spots on the picking lines so if every stamp set has two spots on the picking line they would have to lower what the variety of stamps they can offer in order to allow unmounted (which would be silly since no one has to mount their rubber onto the wood blocks).
If they offered only unmounted with no wood I would quit being a demo, but I would leave with no hard feelings knowing that SU made what they thought was the best business decision for long term viability but that my needs and their product no long coincided.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:32 AM   #906
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There was a comment earlier regarding the SU Demo side of SCS ~ something to the effect that if that was dissolved then all the 'special groups' should be dissolved as well ~ but maybe SU demo shouldn't be the only ones who can have a 'special' group ~ let TAC & CTMH & even CM (since there is a growing love of scrapping) have their 'special' groups as well...
LOVE this idea!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:33 AM   #907
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I can't, for the life of me, find the SU demo only forum.. can someone send me the link please??
Once you become an SU demo, you "apply" for it via PM to a moderator or something like that. There's a sticky somewhere for how to do it. Usually in a couple of days you will begin to see the demo forum at the very top of "forums." Hope that helps
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:34 AM   #908
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I unblocked you a while ago. Surprisingly enough, I've actually agreed with everything you've said on this thread! You are so right about the dangerous teetering. Like I said earlier, we need a Bobby Ewing moment! Have a great weekend girl.
I thought we agreed on more than what we didn't! Have a great weekend yourself.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:34 AM   #909
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FWIW, I'm not seeing the poll or whatever it is on the SU demo site here. I'm not sure where it's buried. If anybody could PM me with some help, I'd greatly appreciate it and thank you.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:36 AM   #910
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I don't mind a thread being started about SU going unmounted. What gets tiring is trying to have a fun thread about a new catty for example, and have it completely overtaken by a why don't they go clear/unmounted debate. It derails so many great SU threads. I just wish some people would realize that while you are welcome to have an opinion that SU go unmounted it may not be what everyone else wants to talk about everytime SU comes up.
I completely agree with this!! I think we get a lot of the same tired old things going on. Part of it is the constant influx of new people to SCS. They don't realize that these conversations have taken place many times over. I completely understand what you're saying .
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:36 AM   #911
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I can't, for the life of me, find the SU demo only forum.. can someone send me the link please??

Unless you signed up for it ((and are a current SU demo))....you can't see it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:36 AM   #912
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If this is the case, wouldn't it stand to reason there are a lot of customers, demos (hobby or business) that may be wanting this? If people don't voice their opions of what they would like to see from a company, then how else would anyone know. If these demos are that concerned about how much this particular discussion goes on, maybe they should be relaying more to SU. There are so many reasons why customers would like to go this way - they don't take up as much room (space is a luxury to some), they are easier to see where you are stamping through the acrylic blocks, cost, and I am sure others can think of more reasons.

I think it is sad that demos and SU would rather go someplace where they may not hear/see this discussion than addressing it. Maybe there is a reason for staying with wood blocks. I personally think it wouldn't hurt business any if there were other options.
I'll explain my perspective. I think it has been addressed but people don't want to accept it. It seems like people expect SU and only SU to be all things to all people and that's an unfair expectation. I have asked and never gotten an answer on this...I like wood mounted rubber. I don't know why...LOL Now, if I like a stamp I buy it (God knows...) but given the choice I will pay more. My Elzybells are all wood mounted. Anyway, would it be fair for me to constantly go on about TAC and CTMH not offering what I want? I have stamps from both companies. TAC is um rubber and CTMH is clear. Would I *LIKE* to be able to get what I want from them? Of course but that's not their thing so if I like an image I get it in whatever forum. How long would it take before the TAC or CTMH girls were like, yeah, we get it, you LIKE wood but I.do.not.sell.that. LOL

The other thing is it would hurt SU to offer both (which is why CTMH and TAC don't have both a clear and um rubber option). There is only so much space in a warehouse. If there is space for say 100 stamp sets and you want another option (clear or unmounted) then they need another space. So you'd have to go to having 50 stamp sets but they would take up the same 100 spaces. That's why SU retires stuff every year.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:37 AM   #913
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I don't mind a thread being started about SU going unmounted. What gets tiring is trying to have a fun thread about a new catty for example, and have it completely overtaken by a why don't they go clear/unmounted debate. It derails so many great SU threads. I just wish some people would realize that while you are welcome to have an opinion that SU go unmounted it may not be what everyone else wants to talk about everytime SU comes up.
Maybe the reason you hear this so much when a new catty comes out is because so many customers are hoping it will happen. If there is always a discussion about this, then how can you say that it may not be what everyoneelse wants to talk about? There are apparently enough people who would welcome this change, or there wouldn't be people sick of it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:39 AM   #914
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The point is, a lot of people are starting to appreciate the option of "mounted/unmounted." A lot of companies are providing that choice. And we wouldn't keep asking if we didn't love a lot of SU stamps!! Really. It's actually a compliment that we care at all.
I always thought it was compliment too that people wanted to buy the product but not in that set up.

I personally think that any stamp company should look at selling bare rubber, ezmount or mounted as options. Yes it might take a little reorganization, however it is probably one of those situations that after you did it you will wonder why you didn't earlier.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:41 AM   #915
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The us against them thing really bothers me. They go to their own forum so they don't have to hear what their customers really want? Something is very wrong with this picture.
Hey there, how have you been D?
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:45 AM   #916
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The us against them thing really bothers me. They go to their own forum so they don't have to hear what their customers really want? Something is very wrong with this picture.


Seriously??? Having demo only forums isn't about not hearing customers. It's about having a spot where we can go and talk to each other as business women. We can make plans for the new catalog, talk about info from SU that customers aren't supposed to hear about yet because of marketing strategy, etc. We can problem solve issues we are having with our business, and some pump up each other about earning cruise. Some people choose not to visit the general forums for a variety of reasons, and one of those reasons is the general negativity in many SU threads in this forum.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:47 AM   #917
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I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread, so many have so much to say! So I just want to add in my 2 cents.

I do not like the new changes. I am a SU demo, and I love being a demo, I love the product, I love having workshops, I love (and need) the extra income.

When I host stamp clubs & workshops, I use nothing but SU! product, but when I am making projects for my own creative outlet, I have recently started branching out and incorporating other companies & products. And listing them in my gallery as well as on my blog, like I do for all the projects that are original to me.

What bothers me most, is a matter of personal principal, I think it is disrespectful to use someone elses art (in stamp form) and not give them credit for it. So if I decide to continue with Stampin Up, personally I will have to stop using all other products, because if I were the creator of something, and someone did not give me or my business credit, it would be offensive to me, so I would not do that to someone else, knowing if it were me I would be offended.

Also, the new IDA is not going to weaken or grow my business one way or another - my customers are not my customers because of my blog, they are my customers because of personal relationship.

I have not decided if I will continue with SU or not. If it were based on character of the company alone - I would stop. But unfortunately, I have to consider the income as well - I feel like I am compromising my character and personal beliefs by even considering staying.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:48 AM   #918
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To address this, this was YEARS ago, and not against a customer, against a fellow demo who CASED me for an SU! convention sample display. Not just a gallery posting, but for a board at convention as part of a select group of demos who were asked to create samples and who all signed an agreement that all designs were original and theirs. How do I know about the contract? Because the following year I signed the contract and provided samples for convention. So the circumstances are different, I was not bashing a customer up from the generals, as is the case many times; not all, and certainly not every post, but enough times to take notice that demos feel very secure about posting negative things about customers. Would they post the same thing in general? I think not.

And, being years ago, when SCS was legitimately, for all basic purposes by extension, an SU! site by the nature of how it was originated, things were different.

Now, with the addition of all the Member Companies and the 1000's upon 1000's of posts, both forum and gallery, it is no longer the case. So just as SU! has the right to change their views and policies, so does SCS and by extension, those who pay and support this site.
It actually was more than once, 2-3 times I think and once it was on stampers showcase. i remember because when I saw it on the SU site I thought it looked familiar and then when I saw your post I knew EXACTLY what card you meant.

I have never seen a post in the demo forums bashing a customer who was in GS. I have seen post where demos might oh, I have this customer and I don't know how to handle/respond/resolve this issue.

I just find it ironic that after this has happened so many demos are suddenly concerned with what's fair and right for SCS and the member companies and other demos customers, etc. Seems like a little payback for the company doing something that some demos don't like. I mean, we've had member companies for how long now? How long has tool and product talk been there talking about non SU stuff? I guess I just don't understand where the big movement to get rid of the demo forums was then.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:48 AM   #919
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The other thing is it would hurt SU to offer both (which is why CTMH and TAC don't have both a clear and um rubber option). There is only so much space in a warehouse. If there is space for say 100 stamp sets and you want another option (clear or unmounted) then they need another space. So you'd have to go to having 50 stamp sets but they would take up the same 100 spaces. That's why SU retires stuff every year.
From an organizational perspective - if SU (for example) put (a)their stamps in packaging and (b)the blocks in the case, they should take the same space side by side in the warehouse. For example -the order pull can be Stamp 1029098a (rubber only) or 1029098b (stamps&blocks) - FTR the inventory code is just a random example.

The other company examples you listed are bare minimums so you could always buy your own wood blocks for the rubba and mount them. The clear you are just going to have to learn to love
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:48 AM   #920
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I think most demos don't come to GS for the same reason I rarely do anymore, it seems like anytime there is something happening with SU a group of people use it as an excuse to bash the demos and the company. To be fair, the same thing happened when TAC changed their policy although to a lesser extent. These are businesses, they have to do what they can to survive and grow and yes, thrive.

We can't all have things exactly as we want them. Val, you talk about the demo forums being catty (which I disagree with) but you didn't mind availing yourself of the demo forums when you wanted to post about being cased without credit. Was that catty? I didn't think it was, I thought you had a legit issue with another demo and you dealt with it among demos. Now that you have no use for that forum anymore SCS should get rid of it?

As for SU slapping SCS, I think people are trying to bash SU under cloak of defending SCS. and whip people up into a frenzy over it. SU's decision had to do with their bottom line I'm sure and wasn't a "slap" at anyone. SCS DOES benefit from having those demo forums. I'm not very tech savvy but all of us visiting the demo side and the gallery increases traffic tremendously. That (I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong) helps in terms of ad fees and I'm sure traffic was looked at when the site was sold. What do you suppose the point of CE or the entertainment forums are? Traffic stays here instead of going off to a news site or a site for a t.v. show.

Was it a slap in the face to SU or to the demos who helped make this website what it is by visiting and sending customers when SCS added member companies and started posting ads? No, it was a business decision. Ask Daven if he got up one morning and said I'm going to lure people away from that evil SU and those demo(n)s today. TODAY I will start allowing ads on the site for other companies *insert evil laugh*

I'm sure it was more like: website bills gotta get paid, need dough, try ads

The bottom line is this, this affects demos. I don't know why customers have such an issue. This is a contract demos have with the company. Many companies have contract that regulate what employees or contractors can or can't do, even in off time. If you're losing your demo then I can see being upset but ultimately it's her choice.

I think you're working your SU business or your not. If you are then you're probably not promoting other companies and if you're not then why should you be entitled to work for a company without really working? If you're a hobby demo and you want the discount because this is fun, then nothing changes for you. You just do your thing and you're not promoting or selling for anyone either way. I mean, it might be nice to be helpful and let people know where you got something but if your intent is just to share ideas and post for your family or yourself then it doesn't matter that you can't say "go here to buy this awesome Sugar Nellie stamp" does it?

Thank you. I have been wanting to say this many times. I hope SCS wants SU demos. There are a lot of us who traffic this board and enjoy going to more than the demo side.
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