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Old 09-03-2009, 07:32 PM   #801
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well, I had just finished looking at the holiday mini cattie. I love the new black and white paper collection. I put together a hefty order, but hadn't submitted yet. Came to SCS at relax a moment, and caught all this stuff on the new agreement. After reading through Shelli's question session tonight, I'm done. I'll either fine cute b&w paper somewhere else, or I'll go without. SU has gone to far this time. Maybe it's time they sell their own products - they really don't need us consultants anymore.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #802
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I very rarely comment here, but love SCS for the friends I have made and the talent that is displayed. However, I am saddened by the generalities some of the comments make about behaviors of demonstrators. I am a demonstrator, I love being a demonstrator, and I have never, not once, in all the time of being a demonstrator, done something nasty or "cutthroat" to a fellow demonstrator. I have to say, I resent the implication that we are all that way. Yes, there are probably a few as there are in any large group demographic - I hazard to guess most of the crafting companies represented here have them, but please do not slam all demos because of this. When you get right down to this, it is a personal choice for the demonstrator on whether they want to comply with the new IDA - nobody is making anyone do anything. Make the decison for yourself, but leave all the negativity out of it....it tends to muddy the waters and many of the actual facts get lost in the murkiness. I am a demo, I will be staying a demo because it is a choice I am making. It saddens me to think that folks here think that demos should be removed from the SCS site - why? I come here for inspiration, to see the challenges, to chat with my friends, and to see what's new.....I don't think that changes just because of the new SU! rules. I for one would miss coming here.
I believe you are misrepresenting the comments made. The suggestion or wish was expressed that the separate demo forums be removed. That demos and non-demos had equal access to all aspects of SCS and became one unified community, not set apart. No one has suggested that SU demos not participate on SCS.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:40 PM   #803
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I don't believe this is the case.. Shelli said last night on the call that you can't say you got an item from Michael's, for example.. you have to say 'local craft store' or big box store' or something similar.
Right-- but the question was also asked about CASE'ing-- and it was said that yes, you can give credit when you CASE a project.

Now, I couldn't say "I CASE'd this card by Nichole Heady over at Papertrey Ink" because that would be naming (and thus possibly promoting) the business. But giving the name of the person I CASE'd is fine.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:51 PM   #804
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Thank you so much Jan for explaining...duuuhhh! I should have figured that out.
I checked and because I participate in challenges by sites that do sell products, I would be in violation of the new demo agreement if I remain a SU demo. I do this on my personal blog but what we do on those now is governed by SU also....you could visit my blog but we couldn't be linked.
I just really love SU - it's what I've purchased, used, sold for many years now...as a hobby demo. BUT I also love GinaK, My Favorite Things, Basic Grey, Cuttlebug, Copics, etc...I think that blending some of these things made my cards prettier -I didnt use them in my workshops but my customers are my friends who see the cards I do make. I know my customers always wanted every set I used at my workshops ...but they also purchased Cuttlebugs, etc and as I understand it, those purchases are $$ taken away from SU. I kinda understand and then again I don't - yes they bought other things (which they would do anyway but they also bought everything I showed of SU) ....I'm hoping they change on their governing our personal internet communications.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:56 PM   #805
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Belinda, I'm glad to see you. I keep seeing a comment that you cannot credit someone who inspires a card. Jeesh. I did not read this anywhere and the comments make no sense to me. Thanks for setting that straight (well, until someone twists it all around anyway).
Thanks! I don't get to post as often as I used to, but I've made time for this because it's important to me... I hate to see misinformation going around.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #806
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hotwheels;15048126]If you deoms I pm email I looking for one.... I have cretin things in mind tha iam fot looking in domes and don't wanted say here. to stiar up more porblems here? thank hotwheels[/quote]
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:59 PM   #807
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twobizie linda: Ahem... if I remember correctly, I believe I answered this question before Jan did. Humph. Boy.... first time I compliment Jan and just because she's famous and everything... jeesh... no one listens to little ol 'me, but in comes JanTink and blah blah blah blah blah...

eta: oh alright.. she gave a *little* more information
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:01 PM   #808
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Ahem... if I remember correctly, I believe I answered this question before Jan did. Humph. Boy.... first time I compliment Jan and just because she's famous and everything... jeesh... no one listens to little ol 'me, but in comes JanTink and blah blah blah blah blah...
your funny!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:03 PM   #809
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Thank you so much Jan for explaining...duuuhhh! I should have figured that out.
I checked and because I participate in challenges by sites that do sell products, I would be in violation of the new demo agreement if I remain a SU demo. I do this on my personal blog but what we do on those now is governed by SU also....you could visit my blog but we couldn't be linked.
I just really love SU - it's what I've purchased, used, sold for many years now...as a hobby demo. BUT I also love GinaK, My Favorite Things, Basic Grey, Cuttlebug, Copics, etc...I think that blending some of these things made my cards prettier -I didnt use them in my workshops but my customers are my friends who see the cards I do make. I know my customers always wanted every set I used at my workshops ...but they also purchased Cuttlebugs, etc and as I understand it, those purchases are $$ taken away from SU. I kinda understand and then again I don't - yes they bought other things (which they would do anyway but they also bought everything I showed of SU) ....I'm hoping they change on their governing our personal internet communications.
We can link to any blogs thatt don't have a shopping cart or "Buy Now" button on them. The blogs themselves can have links to sites with shopping carts on them and we can still link.

Frankly, I think this mostly came about because people at SU! don't live on "teh interwebs" like we do. Once they get the feedback that we give them, I think they will realize they need to be more specific.

It's also possible that they did it this way on purpose, because they weren't sure WHERE they should draw the line and so by using a broad brush, ensured that they would find out quite quickly where the lines should be drawn. Unfortunately, it has backfired on them. Hopefully once this all settles down, we can get back to doing what we really love.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:04 PM   #810
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your funny!!!!
Why, thank you, hotwheels!! So nice to be appreciated

<<<<< taking deep appreciative bows....
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:04 PM   #811
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twobizie linda: Ahem... if I remember correctly, I believe I answered this question before Jan did. Humph. Boy.... first time I compliment Jan and just because she's famous and everything... jeesh... no one listens to little ol 'me, but in comes JanTink and blah blah blah blah blah...

eta: oh alright.. she gave a *little* more information
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:08 PM   #812
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MY SINCEREST APOLOGIES if I came off as COCKY, that WAS NOT my intent, JanTink, not at all! I am FAR from cocky, boy if ya only knew how insecure I can be! I just wanted to get across that I feel that references and sources shouldn't be hidden, but shared, as I PERSONALLY FEEL that is the respectable and appropriate thing to do. And that for SUP to keep us from promoting other items on our own personal time (not at workshops or classses) by not letting us mention the source is unfair to that source.

Seriously, didn't mean to come off as such, that is not me. Blessings, Nicole
Apology accepted.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:14 PM   #813
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jan you deoms would email pm? so I can ask you some question a my presonal need! I dont cause problems. If posted here I afried truobble anigna.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:15 PM   #814
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twobizie linda: Ahem... if I remember correctly, I believe I answered this question before Jan did. Humph. Boy.... first time I compliment Jan and just because she's famous and everything... jeesh... no one listens to little ol 'me, but in comes JanTink and blah blah blah blah blah...

eta: oh alright.. she gave a *little* more information
you made me laugh! needed that! both you and Jan are very encouraging through all of this. Thanks so much! I think I'm staying out of here for a few days and enjoying the holiday weekend - stamping!!! LOL and thanks again!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:18 PM   #815
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you made me laugh! needed that! both you and Jan are very encouraging through all of this. Thanks so much! I think I'm staying out of here for a few days and enjoying the holiday weekend - stamping!!! LOL and thanks again!
Happy Stamping, Linda!!!

(Jan... glad I made you laugh, too ... and did you see that? she said BOTH of us... BOTH!! )
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:20 PM   #816
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Happy Stamping, Linda!!!

(Jan... glad I made you laugh, too ... and did you see that? she said BOTH of us... BOTH!! )

You're funny. LOL!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:24 PM   #817
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Good night all.. thanks to everyone really for their contributions... of course, you west coasters may have more to add tonight but I for one am going to sleeeeeeeeeeeeepppp...

this has all been very enlightening.. I hope that soon everyone will feel they have the information they need to make the best choices they can for themselves. I do wish all of you the very best .
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:24 PM   #818
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double post.. my laptop and SCS on server switchover ~ the best of wonkiness.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:43 PM   #819
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jan i pm you.....
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:57 PM   #820
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What would this world be like if :

You work for ford and was not allowed to drive in any other vehicle?
You worked at Sobeys and was not allowed to shop at other grocery stores ?

I do understand what they are saying , They are going about it in the wrong way, I am a hobby demo the reason why I joined SU was to receive the 20% off , That SOUNDS so good in today's word when your a card maker/scrapbooker . I have sat back and looked at what I have made with the company and what I have spent $ 400.00 every quarter that's 1600.00 per year.... Yes I received 4 free hostess sets, $ 100.00 in free products, and made $ 320.00 minus $ 50.00 for my catty's and mini's taking me back to $ 270.00 .. with this being said... how do they feel that this is a good decision for myself or any other hobby demo to sign ........ My whole point on this issue is if left as it was SU would of received my $ 1100.00 a year for being a demo ...but not NOW! I will take my $ 1100.00 per year and buy what ever my heart desires... Just think if 1000-1500 demos do the same thing , SU has basically drove all their own customers away themselfs ...Wow that a lot of moo laaaaaaaaaaa.....

Just mt 2 cents worth
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:58 PM   #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twobizie linda View Post
you made me laugh! needed that! both you and Jan are very encouraging through all of this. Thanks so much! I think I'm staying out of here for a few days and enjoying the holiday weekend - stamping!!! LOL and thanks again!
I think we all need to take a break, relax, do some stamping and some thinking. Come back on Tuesday all ready to go at it again. This will all get sorted out, we will all find ways to make the choice that is right for each of us. I keep telling myself - just breathe! Have a cuppa and a good stamp and look at it all when some of the dust settles. Thanks to everyone both here and over in the demo forums for a lively discussion!
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:33 PM   #822
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Well - I haven't had a chance to vent yet and just heard about this thread. Please forgive me if someone has already said this.

I've been thinking about the new IDA all day. At first, I wasn't too upset...but as the day went on, the more upset I became.
I started my blog one or two years ago. I felt like I was doing SU a favor by making a blog to show off my creations. I felt SU pride by doing so. And, yes, I use other products on my cards every now and then. Heck - it was free advertising for SU! Even on the cards that weren't 100% SU - it was still free advertising.
So with this new rule that I can not mention other products on my own personal blog - it is just very upsetting. All I'm trying to say is that it just hurts that there are all these VERY TALENTED women out there making these blogs that take hours upon hours that show off lot's of SU stuff (even if not 100% SU) - and they want to govern the way they do it. I know the company is worried about us sending someone somewhere else to shop...but we live in a free world and are free to shop anywhere we want...and they can't force people to shop in just one place - especially the free-spirited artists out there.
And, if the company is willing to do this...what will come next? More restrictions?
Thank you for letting me vent.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:33 PM   #823
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But isn't that what their policy says? If my best friend sells CTMH she can't be my friend on facebook anymore because she posts about crops and CTMH sales and stuff in her updates....
I haven't finished reading, and this may have been answered since the webinar last night..... I do actually have this very specific question emailed in to SU already since I do have a real life "3 dimensional world" friend who sells CTMH and is my friend on Facebook. I did take the link to her blog off mine because she DOES sell product kits on her blog with a PayPal link. I am OK with that. She's OK with that too. If she posts anything I think is so uber cool that I just HAVE to share, I'm sure she will let me copy it onto my blog with a NON LINKING credit - "this awesome thing was made by my friend, "Carrie", and she has instructions over on her blog "Carries Stamps" on blogger. If someone figured out how to get to my blog, they can figure out how to get to hers if they want to. SU just doesn't want us to pick them up and place them in front of her cash register, metaphorically speaking.

As *I* understood the discussion on the webinar last night (and if I'm wrong, SU will let me know in the email reply, I'm sure!):

You can be her Facebook friend. She cannont SELL a product ON Facebook. There is no shopping cart. What you can't do on Facebook is be a "Fan" of a competing COMPANY like BasicGray.

You can link to her blog as long as she is not SELLING product FROM her blog (retired stamps for sale, project kits with non SU product, etc). Then she still falls into that "fuzzy zone" of promoting the product on her blog which, per the webinar last night, it sounds like they are leaving to our discretion for the time being. If there is a button on her blog to BUY NOW (like a shopping cart or PayPal button), that takes you to an order form still ON HER BLOG, THAT would make her blog outside of the "fuzzy" zone. Having a link on her blog to her MyCTMH site is fine. The site it goes to is NOT what you linked to. What you cannot link to is her MyCTMH website (directly) where I could PURCHASE the product.

Same logic applies to SCS. The Member Company products are not SOLD ON SCS. The only things I can PURCHASE *on* SCS are the logo items and a Fan Club Membership. Ditto for most Design Team Member blogs I have seen. They do not actually SELL the product from THEIR blog, they link to the company they design for.

If I get a different answer back from SU regarding this, I will come back and post about it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:36 PM   #824
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[QUOTE=tx stamper;15029666]I am really sad about this and shocked like everyone else.
I am a "hobby" demo. It seems to me all the hobby demos will gladly find somewhere else to get their supplies in order to not be told what they can/cannot post or link on their PERSONAL blogs.

I am a hobby demo and I don't see this the same way you do nor will I be "gladly" finding somewhere else to get my supplies. I understand their business tactic and know that many other businesses have had similiar agreements in place for years.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:40 PM   #825
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[QUOTE=Kyandy;15048304][QUOTE=Evalou;15034057]

Has no effect on me and I'll stay a demo 340 65.76%
I'll change my online activities and stay a demo. 60 11.61%
I'll drop DT work, change my online activities, and stay a demo 6 1.16%
I will no longer stay a demo 80 15.47%
I will no longer stay a demo or a customer 31 6.00%

I think the percentages pretty much show what the majority of demos feel about this new ruling.
I have a feeling that the person who started this survey thought the results were going to be a little different than what they are.
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This is ONE non-objective POLL from SU. You have no idea how most people feel and neither do SU. Who signs an agreement just because SU tells you to.

This affects more that just hobby Demo's on Design teams. This affects anyone with a REAL crafting blog that loves to use whatever Scrappin supplies that want. SU is trying to control things that don't even have the BEST in. They have good Rubber Stamps so advertising other stamp companies is understandable. BUT to tell I can't link to or talk about Digital Kits, Basic Grey Paper, Border Punchies, Scrapbook Supplies, etc just because SU sells them. WHATEVER! They don't control me so I will be leaving them as a DEMO.

SU want a monoploy on tooo many items that I use to inspire my creativity. To want control on the Stampin market of us Demo's is one thing but to want to control my Scrappin too... WHATEVER. I use SU for Cards and that's it. I guess they won't be getting my $1200.00 minimums anymore. Unless they learn to play nice.
No, sorry, but this is not a SU poll, this is a poll that was from right here on SCS, I am sure the figures have changed drastically since this was taken early yesterday, started by a demo.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:55 PM   #826
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"Remember, a good attitude produces good results, a fair attitude fair results, a poor attitude poor results. We each shape our own life, and the shape of it is determined largely by our attitude."
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:04 PM   #827
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Smile Good Attitude

I did have a good attitude when I thought I represented a fair company. I'm just not sure right now. I will keep an open mind. I will admit I am willing to improve my attitude if SU addresses some of these things I'm worried about. If they don't...my attitude will not improve toward the company - but my attitude about life will be just fine.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:08 PM   #828
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Just makes me feel that they no longer think their products are good enough to stand up to the competition! It's not like this is going to make people have money to spend! I liked buying SU cause I felt they offered some really good quality items ~ now um, makes me question that....

SU does make good products, however, there are MANY companies out there that make good products and products that are just as reliable and that provide as much variety and diversity. There really isn't much in the way of tools or embellishments that SU provides to its customers that you can't buy elsewhere or from other marketing companies that use Consultants to sell their products such as Close to My Heart, Creative Memories, and others.

I, myself, would never let a company such as SU dictate to me what I can do or not do on the Internet or in other venues, within reason of course, having regard to the company's reasonable policies on other issues.

Many Scrapbooking Stores and many Stamping Stores sell paper, rubber and vinyl stamps, embellishments, tools, etc. that are used either for scrapbooking or rubber stamping and the entire consuming public is free to buy from those stores. To suggest that SU can entirely restrict what its Consultants do and where they do it is simple nonsense.

SU offers its Consultants 20% off on product sold ~ not such a grand discount if one really thinks about it. The buying public (including SU Consultants) only needs to wait for sales, discount days and/or clearance prices from other companies or stores to save that kind of money.

I think SU should keep its Consultants happy in order to keep them, period.

This is just my two cents on SU and its policies for what its worth, and with inflation and in this economy, two cents is not worth much....lol.

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Old 09-03-2009, 10:16 PM   #829
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"Remember, a good attitude produces good results, a fair attitude fair results, a poor attitude poor results. We each shape our own life, and the shape of it is determined largely by our attitude."
Well said!
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:59 PM   #830
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There is nothing that says we can't give credit when we CASE a card. If I copy a card by Nichole Heady or Gina K, then, by golly, I sure can say I copied it from them! What I can't do is lead my customers by the had to their respective stores by linking to them. I'm pretty sure that, as savvy business women, they don't link to other stores that offer competitive product, either.
I guess I got sidetracked a little since I didn't finish.

If you case a card, give credit where credit is due, and whether or not you link to them - because let's face it, they can be found - and they sell on their blog, then just because one gave credit, would they be in violation?
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:02 PM   #831
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I totally understand your point. My customers are treated as friends first. They are my neighbors and moms at the near by school. I rather leave SU than NOT be able to tell'em to buy the CropADile from Michaels and buy stamps from me.....
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:17 PM   #832
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It kind of seems to me that because what was wrote was actually extremely vaguely written, everyone seems to be able to interpret a different way. I started reading this and trying to make heads or tails of this because I was seriously considering being a demo. Since reading all this, I think I will just hang back and wait and see what the end result will be, or if this the end result. I will then make my decision at a later time. In the meantime, I will just stamp when I can, and still enjoy every minute I can spend doing it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:20 PM   #833
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I totally agree with you. So I willNOT be continuing with them. I can continue making my little works of art with other stamps and supplies not be bothered by all the restritive rules. And spend my $1200 ayear where I'm appreciated.
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:44 PM   #834
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are you sill here? what rakers not rakering all fuss su deoms ect.... I think make rakers. Do you ? and see this effecting rakers in anyways? and rak rules changes SU stuff? Do you make hard fill wishes. be people refrusting su porcudts now? hotwheels
This won't affect RAKs or cards that we mail to our friends and family just as we were never limited in any way to cards that we give away.

When a person SELLS handmade cards, they are bound by the "angel policy" of whatever company whose copyrighted materials they used to make the cards. Usually it involves marking them in some way with a symbol and the name of the company.

If my friends and I get together for a weekend to make cards for the troops or something we will use whatever product is at hand and mix product from different companies. It doesn't matter.

All the new "rules" are telling us is that if I make a card and use a stamp from another company, I can't put a picture of the card on my blog (because I am a demo) and put a link in my post to that company's website where someone could buy the stamp.

I hope I answered your question!
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:17 AM   #835
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." Benjamin Franklin.


I'm throwing in my 2 cents. The quote pretty much sums it up. I don't mean to offend anyone....sorry if i do...I just felt compelled to write it.

..........Just something to think about before you sign. This policy has very DEEP implications. Please think about the principles here and stand up for what you know and feel is right.

(just my humble opinion) I for one will not sign it and I will continue to design for other companies. I will not give up my liberty for what they call "exclusivity". I think SU! is wrong. wrong. wrong and so sadly, I will say goodbye. I won't buy their products anymore either. I'm done with the company. period.

From what I understand (just reading reports on the www and talking to friends) SU! had a knee jerk reaction to some of its " demo award winners" not show casing SU! products on their blogs. Understandably, they are upset. But this policy, is the wrong answer. There are better ways of taking care of this fiasco!!

Even if they don't "intend" to enforce it......its wrong on many many grounds.

I respectfully disagree with any who sign it, and sincerely wish them well.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:05 AM   #836
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America is free enterprise and SU has the right to make the rules for their demos.
May I introduce you to the First Amendment?
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:27 AM   #837
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Lemme tell ya, a LOT of the demos on this site consider themselves SU! cops. I would venture to say that a good 30% of the posts in the Demo Business Talk forum are about how Susie SU is breaking the rules by using stickles at a workshop! Or how Donna Demo saw a current item on Ebay! Most of them end with a resounding chorus of "Call Demo Support!!!" Honestly, it's the most ridiculous thing ever. If these gals worked their business with the skill and frequency that they tattle on each other they would be millionaires.
OK, I laughed so hard that Diet Coke came out my nose....
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Old 09-04-2009, 03:55 AM   #838
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I just want to address the accusation that the demo forums are full of posts about non-compliance of other demos. This is a flat out lie. It usually only comes up when one demos lack of compliance is hurting another demos business. Believe me you don't want the general forums junked up with a bunch of threads about running SU businesses.

I love the new IDA, and I'm not the only demo out there that happily signed the new IDA and sent it in.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:19 AM   #839
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I am a (or was) an SU customer, not a demo--although I've considered it---if it came to choosing between SU and SCS, I would definitely choose SCS handsdown, no question! I've gotten so much from SCS!!! IMO, SU is taking a stand here that is just too far reaching. I don't see how they think that it's acceptable to try to regulate peoples' private lives...wow, the sheer absolute arrogance in that attempt is ridiculous, and somewhat scary too. I certainly don't wish the company nor its demos any ill-will, BUT I do feel that I have to take a stand (on principle) and take my stamping $ elsewhere.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:25 AM   #840
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I am a (or was) an SU customer, not a demo--although I've considered it---if it came to choosing between SU and SCS, I would definitely choose SCS handsdown, no question! I've gotten so much from SCS!!! IMO, SU is taking a stand here that is just too far reaching. I don't see how they think that it's acceptable to try to regulate peoples' private lives...wow, the sheer absolute arrogance in that attempt is ridiculous, and somewhat scary too. I certainly don't wish the company nor its demos any ill-will, BUT I do feel that I have to take a stand (on principle) and take my stamping $ elsewhere.
Just so you know no demo is being asked to choose between SCS and SU. We are allowed to link to splitcoast.
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