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Old 09-03-2009, 05:05 PM   #721
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[QUOTE=hotwheels;15047335][quote=Phantom;15047167]First, I'd like to know where it says that. I did not see that ANYWHERE. I read that you can certainly participate on general crafting forum sites [eta: Correcting myself:] AND link it on your blog, too (although they would rather you didn't). Please inform me.

Quote:
Second, JulieHRR, thanks so much for trying to clarify for hotwheels... I tried but I don't think she understood me


I understed but that not what I was asking I was asking.... I was looking for others blogs Us stuff on that were not su Deoms.... Or other websties that Su stamp for others place scs! I hope this sence beacse I am happicapped and don't get out work shops. so computer is rescouces for I deails you see? And deoms not going preson blogs. I am kind of lots you see you! hotwheels

Thirdly, I didn't like any mention of SCS being pulled into this as to how should the respond. But I do find the questions about the demo forum and special treatment interesting. Along with design team members and people who don't want to have to alter their blogging, I feel badly for Daven and the Team because they have good reasons for having favored SU in many ways and I hate to see them get stuck in the middle for all the good they do. Because of all SCS does for me, and for the rest of us, I would not question ANY decision they make in this regard. I'm a proud SCS fan club member and I'm grateful for use of this site. I enjoy the SU galleries and all the rest of it, and I will be very sad if I hear of anyone giving the good people who run SCS a hard time.

And lastly, I was surprised to be away from the computer for a few hours and discover that you all are still plugging away. Let me ask you this: How often do you see a group of people with such different backgrounds and points of view keep on trying to make sense of a situation like this and understand one another better? That's SCS at it's best, folks. Good for you.
and I Agrree with lasted two Statements ALos!!!!!!

Those of us who have been chatting up this (and tangential) topics for a little while here now are all probably a little punchy or feel like being a little snarky now and then. Hopefully we'll all come to our own peace of mind over these issues. I really wish that for everyone. Decisions need to be made on a such a personal level now and some of us may never understand the other points of view. But thank you for trying - I hope the discussions have helped some people sort out how they feel and what they need to do.

.... and now I know that every thread I start does not die an embarrassing and immediate death LOL!!
Hotwheels,

I all ready sent you the link for SCS blog list.

You can click in anyones siggy that has a blog.

you can do a search in yahoo or google for card making blogs.

I don't understand what you are asking, as I gave this info to you all ready
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:05 PM   #722
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I can answer A

Why pay for something when you've gotten it for free for years?

It's sad to me, because SCS has done so very much to bring SU! business and to help the Demos.
I totally agree.....
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:06 PM   #723
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I'm not a demo.

How will they "enforce" this new policy? How will they police it?????

Seems hard to do. Will they take away your children if they catch you blogging re: some great deal at Michael's? Will you get a foreclosure note in the mail on your house???

Seems odd to have a policy that you can't possibly police.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:07 PM   #724
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This is EXACTLY what I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around. I'm really trying to see both points of view, but I just can't. To me, a PERSONAL blog is "off the clock." Like has been said before, if SU hosted a blog site, then I can absolutely see them saying SU Only products. Makes perfect sense. But once you "go home for the day" and sit in front of your own PERSONAL blog, you should be able to do what you want!

It's no different than if I worked at McDonald's. Someone comes in and says, "I want a Whopper." I would say, "I'm sorry, we don't serve those here, can I offer you a Big Mac instead?" (Understandable, and expected.) But then AFTER WORK, I decide to go eat at Olive Garden, and I run into an old friend who works at Taco Bell. We get to talking over our pasta about food, and we get to talking about Chinese Food, and I tell them that the Golden Wok has great Mu Shu Pork and it's really cheap. I'm not breaking any rules from McDonald's because I ate at Olive Garden, or told my friend to try the Mu Shu Pork at the Golden Wok!

I think I must be missing the boat, because I don't understand how a Personal Blog (or Facebook, Twitter, etc.) is any of SU's business as long as you were not in the process of trying to sell Stampin Up. If I decide to sell Stampin Up only at Workshops or Clubs and the rest of my time was my own-- Great. I have no problem with demos that don't use other products. But on your "off time?" What does it matter? Because I work at McDonald's means I can only talk about McDonald's food to other people and not Taco Bell? I can't be caught eating at Taco Bell on my lunch break? I can't tell people on my off time that Taco Bell has a great dollar menu? Stampin Up seems to want their demos to be "on the clock" 24-7.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm really trying to understand.
except that a McDonald's employee is just that, an employee. When he leaves McDonalds, he is no longer under any agreement to abide by their rules until he steps in their door again. Meaning also that he cannot sell a McDonald's burger when he is not at McDonalds.

A SU demo is a consultant under contract to run an independent business under a company which is SU. This demo can actually sell SU products anytime of the day or night if she so chooses. If she wants to get up at 2am and send an email to her customers trying to sell them SU, she is allowed to do that since she is under contract. Or sillier yet, but possible, if she wants to do a workshop at 2 am she can do that. I don't know if Owls or Opossums buy SU, but my point is, she is still an SU demo at that time of night. (or morning)

The below is taken from a direct discussion with Shelli, the lawyers and some others on the staff last night, trying to clear up some areas.....
remember this is being transcribed while listening to the conversation.....

explain more why company can stipulate what a demo can/can't say?

we have an agreement, so it's not a violation. if we were the govt, it would be. (different) we have a partnership. in exchange for benefits, you agree to promote our company.
it is your own business, but it's not your company. we partner with you, we
ask certain things from you. you have an exclusive right to sell our product. it can't be a free-for-all, buy the kit and do whatever you want.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:08 PM   #725
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Hotwheels, are you looking for blogs or sites that show SU stuff, but not SU demo blogs?? yes some get me one tho not seem things I like yet but still tho it!

I think there is a list somewhere here on SCS, I can try to find it - some of them will be SU demos though.

Stampin' Up made a comment that sounds like they are going to try to start their own gallery and discussion site (community/forum/etc.) but I don't know if that will be for demos only or not.
How did you found this out? are you a demos? and please keep me posted please thanks hotwheels
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:11 PM   #726
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[quote=lesliespringer;15047502][quote=hotwheels;15047335]
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Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
First, I'd like to know where it says that. I did not see that ANYWHERE. I read that you can certainly participate on general crafting forum sites [eta: Correcting myself:] AND link it on your blog, too (although they would rather you didn't). Please inform me.



Hotwheels,

I all ready sent you the link for SCS blog list.

You can click in anyones siggy that has a blog.

you can do a search in yahoo or google for card making blogs.

I don't understand what you are asking, as I gave this info to you all ready
Yes I told the other lady too thank- you!
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:13 PM   #727
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" I hope this is true (haven't seen the clarifications) because like thousands of others one of the reasons that I love your blog is the 'rubbadulatory'. It is all just very polarized, much like real life and quite frankly I don't want/need any other headaches. Thanks for your help!!
I'm a glass half full kind of gal. The main feature of my blog is humor, not necessarily stamps, or even chocolate! So I expect to get quite a lot of mileage out of the current situation and the ways I will have to write to be in compliance... yes, indeed...I can see many humorous posts about 'rubbahdultery' with the new IDA twist added in in the future. Heheheh....

Life online has changed in the past three years. I think SU! is trying to address these changes. Maybe they picked up a sledge hammer to whack a spider instead of their slipper like they should have, but I expect that after this all shakes down, we will have something quite reasonable to follow. At least, that is what I hope. I have been a demonstrator for 6 years. In that time, I have never been asked to do anything dishonorable, immoral, or illegal. I have been treated with respect and courtesy at all times. I totally feel that the company will come to a better way of expressing this policy so that it is easy to understand and follow without feeling like you just "drank the Kool-Aid."

Why did they do it? I think it's probably because they had spent some time encouraging us to do this, then asking us to do this, and then when very few complied, they finally had to resort to telling us to do it. Mostly due to the design team phenomenon.

In the past four years, the whole idea of design teams has taken off online. When I was asked to be one of the original Dirty Dozen, I had never heard of the idea and had no notion what would be expected of me. Now everyone knows and most papercrafters who are online dream about being on a design team.

I don't think SU! understood what it would mean for it's demonstrators to start moonlighting as designers for other companies when it initially gave the go ahead. Honestly, most large companies didn't "get" the internet for the longest time, but you can see that most are starting to "get" it now. While the internet is not the largest part of SU!'s market, it is a growing one. So they are moving to protect their business interests in a way that makes sense to them...by trying to make sure that their demonstrators, whom they invest a lot of time and money into, are promoting the company they are purportedly representing.

Most design teams ask you to do a buttload of work in exchange for your free stamps or product kit. You need to post when they tell you, show up in their forum when they want you to, comment on uploads, submit on a regular basis, host challenges, write articles, create sketches, and not to mix advertising for other companies in your posts. Not all ask for exclusivity, though some do but I think the day will come when they all do.

It used to be there were only a few people competing for these jobs. Not any more. There is now a very large pool of talented designers out there to choose from...the competition for these spots is going to be fierce and companies will be able to ask more and more of those that want to put that "design team" entry on their resume. Yet I don't see people getting online and protesting the insane amount of work that can be expected of designers, for sometimes very little return (the exception being JulieHRR and Nancy Nally.)

You may think SU! is cracked for asking for us to be exclusive in promoting the brand we sell, but my guess is that the whole industry will be moving in the same direction in the future.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:14 PM   #728
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I just don't understand this.......I too am just a hobby demo.
I will never reach those levels that you are speaking of, because I like right where I am at, but this IDA is not going to be "stifling me or stopping my creativity.

If I felt SU was not offering me enough, I would have left long ago. I nor my customers feel stifled. If my customers felt this way, they would not have stuck with me these past 5 years. I run clubs, I don't do workshops and I don't have a downline.

THEY ARE NOT asking us to JUST use SUO. They are just asking us not to ADVERTISE or direct customers to other products.
How is that stifling you. Go buy all you want, from whomever you want.....they DO NOT care. They just care when you lead customers to another product by talking about it on the world wide web.

............
Evalou, With ALL DUE RESPECT, Maybe SUP is offering YOU enough for your style of creativity and crafting. I, however, have never considered myself a crafter. I am an artist with various awards ranging to national ones in fields other than paper. 'Crafting' is different from 'artistry'.

YES, WHEN I am given a selection of items and told to use them, I make the MOST of them with my talent and supplies. However, I am not one to keep my talent within certain 'boundaries or limits' on my own time. I always aim to keep growing and pushing my ability to become better and more versed at what I do. Doing this with one companies supplies is not enough for me. That is my personal opinion. You may disagree, that is fine. I am not wanting to sway anyone. I am stating my .02.

I do also realize that SUP is not trying to keep us from using other companies stuff. I am well aware that we are just supposed to not advertise for other companies.

As an artist, I do however have a problem with not giving credit where credit is due. Whether it is that I picked up the wooden block at a 'big box retail store' or got the idea from a gal on SCS. I feel that when we use others products or services (like others' ideas) to surface our own new creation, even if it is just a card, it IS necessary to give credit to the appropriate source. Doing so shows respect and appreciation. I am sure WALMART doesn't really care if I appreciate them for selling wooden letters that I have decided to alter/paper and embellish up, but I feel I shouldn't try to hide the fact either.

If someone purchases jewelry supplies from me to make their own item (I have a jewelry line of my own so I always have an inventory of findings) and they decide to post their final bracelet piece on their blog, I would appreciate them noting me in their suppliers list. It is a respectable thing to do.

Again, these are my personal feelings. If SUP offers you enough, that is wonderful, but as an artist, what they offer does not reflect my art style as a whole and again, I feel it is inappropriate to not give credit where credit is due. YES, I know you can eventually tell someone in a personal email, if they ask, where you purchased "this or that"; but honestly, I don't enjoy going to my email time and time again answering the same question about said item, I would rather just edit my blog post to reflect the source of the item keeping me from wasting time and energy that could be spent on setting up workshops or working on club projects. Ya follow?

I appreciate your comments, Blessings, Nicole
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:16 PM   #729
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I'm not a demo.

How will they "enforce" this new policy? How will they police it?????

Seems hard to do. Will they take away your children if they catch you blogging re: some great deal at Michael's? Will you get a foreclosure note in the mail on your house???

Seems odd to have a policy that you can't possibly police.
They told us last night it would be an honor system.

They are NOT going to have personnel trolling the internet, eavesdropping in chat rooms, watching SCS or other webboards for noncompliance, trolling blogs or Facebook looking for violations.

Instead, they hope that we will honor the agreement. Naturally, there will be plenty of people willing to turn their fellow demonstrators in for violations, but my guess is that most demonstrators are going to follow the true spirit of the rule, which is not to actively promote and most will look the other way unless they see someone blatanty defying the rules, much like the way Ebay was handled a few years back.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:17 PM   #730
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I totally agree.....
are you sill here? what rakers not rakering all fuss su deoms ect.... I think make rakers. Do you ? and see this effecting rakers in anyways? and rak rules changes SU stuff? Do you make hard fill wishes. be people refrusting su porcudts now? hotwheels
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #731
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I'm not a demo.

How will they "enforce" this new policy? How will they police it?????

Seems hard to do. Will they take away your children if they catch you blogging re: some great deal at Michael's? Will you get a foreclosure note in the mail on your house???

Seems odd to have a policy that you can't possibly police.
Again, they will not be "policing" anything.
They have had the "angel policy" in place for years and they never have policed that. I think they count of us to use our integrity and our common sense.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:20 PM   #732
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I am, for the time being, an active demo. I support shutting the demo forums down and making the community a whole. Should they want their own forum, then SU! needs to come to the plate with a Membership agreement with SCS. Now, we know that will never happen. By having a Member company forum, it will also cut down on the cattiness by demos in the demo only forums about what those on the "other side" are doing and that they would never post on the "other side" and all that. As it is now, they are protected in the forums because of the exclusivity, they are free to speak in whatever tone they want about customers.

SU! demonstrators need to remember that they do have their own private forum which may be found on the Demonstrator Website. Stampin' Discuss is for all things demonstrator related for SU!
Not all demos are catty, I have not left one catty comment about any demo, customer, or Stampin' Up. If you ask SCS to get rid of the demo forums, then ask to rid itself of every other exclusive user group. That would be no different. I think this would be a very sad thing. SCS is my happy place, what I usually find here is creative people sharing and helping each other. It saddens me to read some of the things I have read here today. I wish you all luck with your decisions.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:22 PM   #733
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are you sill here? what rakers not rakering all fuss su deoms ect.... I think make rakers. Do you ? and see this effecting rakers in anyways? and rak rules changes SU stuff? Do you make hard fill wishes. be people refrusting su porcudts now? hotwheels
NOPE, it won't change any Random Acts of Kindness stuff!!

So, don't worry about that, ok??
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:22 PM   #734
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As a non demo, simply a fan down here down under, I just wanted to pop in what I understood from all this. SU doesn't have a problem with their demos having blogs. As far as I can see they dont have a problem with their demos using other products either. As long as they aren't selling them, or putting links into their blogs for where people can buy them. Which most of them dont anyway. I have stacks of demos blogs in my favourites, and on the majority, most of them only have SU products in them anyway.

CM has for years stated that their demos are not allowed to use any other products in the albums being shown in their parties. I've never seen a CM blog either come to think of it. SU is simply doing something similar. Your work is an advertisement for their products.

I wonder if the same agreement is down here in Oz.

agree with you I really dont see the issue ... there is a handful of blogs out there that actually have direct links to other companys .... other wise it business as usual for the majority......... others mention other stuff and dont link ... so what's the problem ...
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:25 PM   #735
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Not all demos are catty, I have not left one catty comment about any demo, customer, or Stampin' Up. If you ask SCS to get rid of the demo forums, then ask to rid itself of every other exclusive user group. That would be no different. I think this would be a very sad thing. SCS is my happy place, what I usually find here is creative people sharing and helping each other. It saddens me to read some of the things I have read here today. I wish you all luck with your decisions.
Which would be? I'm sure there are moderator forums, but that is for those who actually work for this site and are not just stampers coming to see what's going on.

I never said all demos were catty, I just said demos, in general not specific, or you in particular, btw. By incorporating all into one big forum, then there is even more creative people sharing. As is, with the separate forum, there are those who never share anything, as they don't post in the gallery nor in the general forums.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:29 PM   #736
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NOPE, it won't change any Random Acts of Kindness stuff!!

So, don't worry about that, ok??
I not worry I just think this might hard Su wished fill becse let buying SU prodcuts all fussing ect!
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:30 PM   #737
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Originally Posted by stampwithjoanne View Post
I'm not a demo.

How will they "enforce" this new policy? How will they police it?????

Seems hard to do. Will they take away your children if they catch you blogging re: some great deal at Michael's? Will you get a foreclosure note in the mail on your house???

Seems odd to have a policy that you can't possibly police.
They rely on other demos to do the policing for them.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:31 PM   #738
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Which would be? I'm sure there are moderator forums, but that is for those who actually work for this site and are not just stampers coming to see what's going on.

I never said all demos were catty, I just said demos, in general not specific, or you in particular, btw. By incorporating all into one big forum, then there is even more creative people sharing. As is, with the separate forum, there are those who never share anything, as they don't post in the gallery nor in the general forums.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:31 PM   #739
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are you sill here? what rakers not rakering all fuss su deoms ect.... I think make rakers. Do you ? and see this effecting rakers in anyways? and rak rules changes SU stuff? Do you make hard fill wishes. be people refrusting su porcudts now? hotwheels
hotwheels,

Nothing is changing on SCS. This is for Stampin Up demo's ONLY
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:32 PM   #740
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Valerie

I love you blog cool Ideals hotwheels
thanks!
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:35 PM   #741
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I not worry I just think this might hard Su wished fill becse let buying SU prodcuts all fussing ect!

Nope, it won't change anything here at SCS and RAK!!....
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:36 PM   #742
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I'm a glass half full kind of gal. The main feature of my blog is humor, not necessarily stamps, or even chocolate! So I expect to get quite a lot of mileage out of the current situation and the ways I will have to write to be in compliance... yes, indeed...I can see many humorous posts about 'rubbahdultery' with the new IDA twist added in in the future. Heheheh....

Life online has changed in the past three years. I think SU! is trying to address these changes. Maybe they picked up a sledge hammer to whack a spider instead of their slipper like they should have, but I expect that after this all shakes down, we will have something quite reasonable to follow. At least, that is what I hope. I have been a demonstrator for 6 years. In that time, I have never been asked to do anything dishonorable, immoral, or illegal. I have been treated with respect and courtesy at all times. I totally feel that the company will come to a better way of expressing this policy so that it is easy to understand and follow without feeling like you just "drank the Kool-Aid."

Why did they do it? I think it's probably because they had spent some time encouraging us to do this, then asking us to do this, and then when very few complied, they finally had to resort to telling us to do it. Mostly due to the design team phenomenon.

In the past four years, the whole idea of design teams has taken off online. When I was asked to be one of the original Dirty Dozen, I had never heard of the idea and had no notion what would be expected of me. Now everyone knows and most papercrafters who are online dream about being on a design team.

I don't think SU! understood what it would mean for it's demonstrators to start moonlighting as designers for other companies when it initially gave the go ahead. Honestly, most large companies didn't "get" the internet for the longest time, but you can see that most are starting to "get" it now. While the internet is not the largest part of SU!'s market, it is a growing one. So they are moving to protect their business interests in a way that makes sense to them...by trying to make sure that their demonstrators, whom they invest a lot of time and money into, are promoting the company they are purportedly representing.

Most design teams ask you to do a buttload of work in exchange for your free stamps or product kit. You need to post when they tell you, show up in their forum when they want you to, comment on uploads, submit on a regular basis, host challenges, write articles, create sketches, and not to mix advertising for other companies in your posts. Not all ask for exclusivity, though some do but I think the day will come when they all do.

It used to be there were only a few people competing for these jobs. Not any more. There is now a very large pool of talented designers out there to choose from...the competition for these spots is going to be fierce and companies will be able to ask more and more of those that want to put that "design team" entry on their resume. Yet I don't see people getting online and protesting the insane amount of work that can be expected of designers, for sometimes very little return (the exception being JulieHRR and Nancy Nally.)

You may think SU! is cracked for asking for us to be exclusive in promoting the brand we sell, but my guess is that the whole industry will be moving in the same direction in the future.
I have to say that you have made the most logical, well thought out, reasonable arguement in SUs favor out of the 19 pages that I have seen posted. As I have stated, the biggest complaint that I have had is that as a hobbiest, I mostly just want to be left alone, and not have to think about what I am doing when I am crafting. My income doesn't (lucky for my family) depend on my crafting so as a hobby demo my initial concern was the ethical concern of using anything other than SU in the few workshops that I do have to make Cards for Heroes. I try to use supplies that I can buy at a good price so we can make more cards.

I still think that SU is a little behind the eight ball on how they are handling the changing market, but it can not be easy to be as large a corporation and make quick market changes the way that some of the newer companies are able. Any way, best of luck to all.

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Old 09-03-2009, 05:38 PM   #743
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and peggy-sue that blog policy Su stirks you should put all your prosonal and or anything deoms or none doems like.... I just can't get way the stinks. I called Su and told what tho of new policle.... it burn my hind I and I am not deoms Just coustomer.... Greee I and can't find Demo I like and me sad!
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:41 PM   #744
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Evalou, With ALL DUE RESPECT, Maybe SUP is offering YOU enough for your style of creativity and crafting. I, however, have never considered myself a crafter. I am an artist with various awards ranging to national ones in fields other than paper. 'Crafting' is different from 'artistry'.
As someone who also is an "artist", however you want to define that, having taken a degree in art and having worked in many different media, I can tell you that sometimes the most creative moments I have are when I only have a limited amount of supplies and tools available to work with. I've been stamping since 1996 and scrapbooking since 1998. Some of my most creative layouts were done in 1999, when there was hardly ANYTHING available to work with. I had to paper piece and find interesting ways of making the limited supplies I had work for me. THAT is creativity. That is art.

Maybe SU! is the wrong place for you, because as a demonstrator, I try to encourage the artist in all my customers. I don't feel I am better than they are just because I have a couple of letters after my name. Maybe that's not what you are trying to say, but it sure comes across that way. We all start out from the same place and hard work and determination can turn many a "crafter" into an "artist". Do a little search on this forum for the post "On Being Dirty Worthy"...that says all of what I really mean to say about that.

One of the things I used to give customers when I was first holding workshops was an "Artistic License". It said, "This is to certify that _______________ has received this Artistic License from Janine Tinklenberg, Stampin' Up! Demonstrator. She is now free to make all the mistakes she wants and call them 'art'. She can also claim to be an artist, through the wonderful medium of rubber stamping." People were so empowered by that. I heard so many women say, "I could never do this. I'm just no good at crafts or art." How horrible to feel that way, when this hobby can be so rewarding and enjoyable. They were so thrilled to find out that YES they could make something that was worthy of sending to a friend or loved one. That something that they did could bring a smile to someone's face.

That, folks, is what the Statement of the Heart is all about. Not sharing your personal "artistry" with the world and getting the acolades that are "your due" in the form of comments on your blog or "awards". It's about helping other people achieve something that will make themselves and other people happy. It's about making a difference in other people's lives. And that is why *I* am still a demonstrator and will remain one. Yes, I love the accolades and awards as much as anyone else does. But when it comes down to it, helping other people have fun with stamps IS what being a demonstrator is about for me.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:42 PM   #745
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Which would be? I'm sure there are moderator forums, but that is for those who actually work for this site and are not just stampers coming to see what's going on.

I never said all demos were catty, I just said demos, in general not specific, or you in particular, btw. By incorporating all into one big forum, then there is even more creative people sharing. As is, with the separate forum, there are those who never share anything, as they don't post in the gallery nor in the general forums.
I participate and share as many others do. I share projects and my comments on both sides. That is the ways of the world. you will always find good and bad everywhere. I choose to find the good and pass right over the bad. Sorry, if I took what you said the wrong way. It's been a very long day and I hear a giant bottle of advil calling me.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:45 PM   #746
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Evalou, With ALL DUE RESPECT, Maybe SUP is offering YOU enough for your style of creativity and crafting. I, however, have never considered myself a crafter. I am an artist with various awards ranging to national ones in fields other than paper. 'Crafting' is different from 'artistry'.

YES, WHEN I am given a selection of items and told to use them, I make the MOST of them with my talent and supplies. However, I am not one to keep my talent within certain 'boundaries or limits' on my own time. I always aim to keep growing and pushing my ability to become better and more versed at what I do. Doing this with one companies supplies is not enough for me. That is my personal opinion. You may disagree, that is fine. I am not wanting to sway anyone. I am stating my .02.

I do also realize that SUP is not trying to keep us from using other companies stuff. I am well aware that we are just supposed to not advertise for other companies.

As an artist, I do however have a problem with not giving credit where credit is due. Whether it is that I picked up the wooden block at a 'big box retail store' or got the idea from a gal on SCS. I feel that when we use others products or services (like others' ideas) to surface our own new creation, even if it is just a card, it IS necessary to give credit to the appropriate source. Doing so shows respect and appreciation. I am sure WALMART doesn't really care if I appreciate them for selling wooden letters that I have decided to alter/paper and embellish up, but I feel I shouldn't try to hide the fact either.

If someone purchases jewelry supplies from me to make their own item (I have a jewelry line of my own so I always have an inventory of findings) and they decide to post their final bracelet piece on their blog, I would appreciate them noting me in their suppliers list. It is a respectable thing to do.

Again, these are my personal feelings. If SUP offers you enough, that is wonderful, but as an artist, what they offer does not reflect my art style as a whole and again, I feel it is inappropriate to not give credit where credit is due. YES, I know you can eventually tell someone in a personal email, if they ask, where you purchased "this or that"; but honestly, I don't enjoy going to my email time and time again answering the same question about said item, I would rather just edit my blog post to reflect the source of the item keeping me from wasting time and energy that could be spent on setting up workshops or working on club projects. Ya follow?

I appreciate your comments, Blessings, Nicole
my oh my

Thanks for your feedback, you have just confirmed everything that I have been saying.

I also apologize that I came across as assuming that you were a "mere" crafter. I mean it just did not occur to me that a true "artist" would need so much more than I. But as I said, IF SU did not offer all that I needed, I would know what I could do about it, rather than complain about their rules.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:46 PM   #747
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I am, for the time being, an active demo. I support shutting the demo forums down and making the community a whole. Should they want their own forum, then SU! needs to come to the plate with a Membership agreement with SCS. Now, we know that will never happen. By having a Member company forum, it will also cut down on the cattiness by demos in the demo only forums about what those on the "other side" are doing and that they would never post on the "other side" and all that. As it is now, they are protected in the forums because of the exclusivity, they are free to speak in whatever tone they want about customers.

SU! demonstrators need to remember that they do have their own private forum which may be found on the Demonstrator Website. Stampin' Discuss is for all things demonstrator related for SU!
Wouldn't it be great if we could all be one big happy family?
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:47 PM   #748
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I am testing something...be kind to me for a sec.

Hmm, you have to post before you can read the new posts tonight...very wonky!

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Old 09-03-2009, 05:54 PM   #749
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Wouldn't it be great if we could all be one big happy family?
I am all for that!
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:55 PM   #750
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Hey, it did not sound snarky at all.

I'm a demo, a hobby demo. I guess I am just having trouble understanding "why" other hobby demos are so upset with all of this when they say they are hobby just to get the discount. So, they want the discount from SU to get their supplies cheaper, and the hostess benefits that come along with this discounted items, but they don't want SU telling them to not give credit for other products when they show their cards made with non-su products. Now this leave ME scratching my head.

Now, about your comment about SCS highlighting other products and the DEMOS complaining and withdrawing their monetary support..............again, how does this relay back to SU not being supportive of SCS. I'd say the problem there are the demos who complained, wouldn't you?
(I am not being snarky either, honestly, I am just trying to understand)
I think it's more that they're upset about being told what they can't say on their own personal blogs and facebook accounts. That's what I would be squawking about if I were still a demo. And I almost became one last month!

And yes, as I was typing that, I thought the same thing, that the problem was with the demos. But at the same time, they have seen SU not advertise or financially support SCS, so they don't expect to have to, either. I see SU advertise in magazines, so why not in online media?
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:59 PM   #751
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I am testing something...be kind to me for a sec.

Hmm, you have to post before you can read the new posts tonight...very wonky!
I know its only a temporary fix until SCS get the bugs worked out....but, when you come into a thread.....hit refresh or your F5.....and the latest posts will show!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:02 PM   #752
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SCS was started for a SU demo and her downlines .....
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:05 PM   #753
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I am all for that!
me too .... dont usually bother much on this part of the site .. but I cannot believe what Im seeing here ... shocked and stunned
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:06 PM   #754
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SCS was started for a SU demo and her downlines .....
Way back in the day it served that purpose and has expanded to much more. I don't think many here are any part of that original group, do you? It serves a different purpose now.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:13 PM   #755
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As someone who also is an "artist", however you want to define that, having taken a degree in art and having worked in many different media, I can tell you that sometimes the most creative moments I have are when I only have a limited amount of supplies and tools available to work with. I've been stamping since 1996 and scrapbooking since 1998. Some of my most creative layouts were done in 1999, when there was hardly ANYTHING available to work with. I had to paper piece and find interesting ways of making the limited supplies I had work for me. THAT is creativity. That is art.

Maybe SU! is the wrong place for you, because as a demonstrator, I try to encourage the artist in all my customers. I don't feel I am better than they are just because I have a couple of letters after my name. Maybe that's not what you are trying to say, but it sure comes across that way. We all start out from the same place and hard work and determination can turn many a "crafter" into an "artist". Do a little search on this forum for the post "On Being Dirty Worthy"...that says all of what I really mean to say about that.

One of the things I used to give customers when I was first holding workshops was an "Artistic License". It said, "This is to certify that _______________ has received this Artistic License from Janine Tinklenberg, Stampin' Up! Demonstrator. She is now free to make all the mistakes she wants and call them 'art'. She can also claim to be an artist, through the wonderful medium of rubber stamping." People were so empowered by that. I heard so many women say, "I could never do this. I'm just no good at crafts or art." How horrible to feel that way, when this hobby can be so rewarding and enjoyable. They were so thrilled to find out that YES they could make something that was worthy of sending to a friend or loved one. That something that they did could bring a smile to someone's face.

That, folks, is what the Statement of the Heart is all about. Not sharing your personal "artistry" with the world and getting the acolades that are "your due" in the form of comments on your blog or "awards". It's about helping other people achieve something that will make themselves and other people happy. It's about making a difference in other people's lives. And that is why *I* am still a demonstrator and will remain one. Yes, I love the accolades and awards as much as anyone else does. But when it comes down to it, helping other people have fun with stamps IS what being a demonstrator is about for me.


This is why I love you, Jan. You're honest, down to earth, and very kind and thoughtful. You always state your ideas without ever putting anyone down. Thank you.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:17 PM   #756
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I know its only a temporary fix until SCS get the bugs worked out....but, when you come into a thread.....hit refresh or your F5.....and the latest posts will show!!
thank you!! It worked!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:18 PM   #757
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As someone who also is an "artist", however you want to define that, having taken a degree in art and having worked in many different media, I can tell you that sometimes the most creative moments I have are when I only have a limited amount of supplies and tools available to work with. I've been stamping since 1996 and scrapbooking since 1998. Some of my most creative layouts were done in 1999, when there was hardly ANYTHING available to work with. I had to paper piece and find interesting ways of making the limited supplies I had work for me. THAT is creativity. That is art.

Maybe SU! is the wrong place for you, because as a demonstrator, I try to encourage the artist in all my customers. I don't feel I am better than they are just because I have a couple of letters after my name. Maybe that's not what you are trying to say, but it sure comes across that way. We all start out from the same place and hard work and determination can turn many a "crafter" into an "artist". Do a little search on this forum for the post "On Being Dirty Worthy"...that says all of what I really mean to say about that.

One of the things I used to give customers when I was first holding workshops was an "Artistic License". It said, "This is to certify that _______________ has received this Artistic License from Janine Tinklenberg, Stampin' Up! Demonstrator. She is now free to make all the mistakes she wants and call them 'art'. She can also claim to be an artist, through the wonderful medium of rubber stamping." People were so empowered by that. I heard so many women say, "I could never do this. I'm just no good at crafts or art." How horrible to feel that way, when this hobby can be so rewarding and enjoyable. They were so thrilled to find out that YES they could make something that was worthy of sending to a friend or loved one. That something that they did could bring a smile to someone's face.

That, folks, is what the Statement of the Heart is all about. Not sharing your personal "artistry" with the world and getting the acolades that are "your due" in the form of comments on your blog or "awards". It's about helping other people achieve something that will make themselves and other people happy. It's about making a difference in other people's lives. And that is why *I* am still a demonstrator and will remain one. Yes, I love the accolades and awards as much as anyone else does. But when it comes down to it, helping other people have fun with stamps IS what being a demonstrator is about for me.
Yikes, I think you read between too many lines here! And maybe I am misreading or misinterpreting.... However, I have never, and in no way shape or form, ever claimed to be better than anyone! And, I too, try to get people to get out of their comfort zone and create something that reflects them, and not copy anothers idea. However, not through the SUP business forum, but rather through our community arts center and at my church ranging from preschool to Senior citizens. I am in total agreement with what you said; sharing my love for art with others and helping them find happiness in it, as well, is my goal, too. I am not in the art field for myself ONLY, I am a strong advocate for the arts, in general, but also especially for getting it back into schools.

OH MY GOSH, if you knew me you would know that I do not feel that I am better than anyone else. We all have different styles, and that was all that I was trying to get across in my last post. SUP doesn't offer me everything that I want to use, nor does any company. Hence, why I don't want to keep to just one.

I feel the same as you, that when I am pushed to a challenge to use limited supplies, etc., and be creative at such moments IS artistry! However, I don't want someone else to put those limits ON ME, unless I choose to let them. I have never said that Stampin Up is "for me", that's why I don't promote it as a business. I do love their quality and love most of their product line. Parts of it I don't use because it doesn't reflect my style, at least not my current style, it always changes as the trends do, too!

I have never felt that I was sharing my work on my blog to get tons of lavishing comments, I rarely get more than 5 a day, and I wouldn't say that they are 'lavishing' either! HAHA! I do post what I post because I do hope to inspire someone to get creative (because I do feel that art IS important) AND I also hope that someone posts to my blog so that I can find THEM and get inspired by their style of designing as well.

MY SINCEREST APOLOGIES if I came off as COCKY, that WAS NOT my intent, JanTink, not at all! I am FAR from cocky, boy if ya only knew how insecure I can be! I just wanted to get across that I feel that references and sources shouldn't be hidden, but shared, as I PERSONALLY FEEL that is the respectable and appropriate thing to do. And that for SUP to keep us from promoting other items on our own personal time (not at workshops or classses) by not letting us mention the source is unfair to that source.

Seriously, didn't mean to come off as such, that is not me. Blessings, Nicole
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:19 PM   #758
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If you deoms I pm email I looking for one.... I have cretin things in mind looking and don't wanted say here. to stiar up more porblems here? thank hotwheels
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:19 PM   #759
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will post this later...
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:28 PM   #760
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Ok, I just read your post here, but let me ask this. It seems that some are upset that SU does not pay for advertising on SCS. Ok, the companies that DO PAY for it, are they a direct sales company? Do they have 44,00 contracted demos out there advertising for themselves and for SU.
(after all, that IS how SU's business is run) and we knew that when we signed on. So again, it almost sounds like the demo who "only" wants the discount and the freedom to do as they want without out any restrictions from SU. but like your quote of JulieHrr's, there is no free lunch.
I again, am not being snarky, I am just trying to see the whole big picture.

I think of Party Lite, Lea Sophia jewelry, Simply Tasteful, Mary Kay, etc., and I honestly don't think I have ever seen any advertising on the web for them, is that correct? They are putting their money into their consultants, their catalogs, and into their hostess benefits, just like SU does.

Let's be honest girls, the cards on SCS also help us demos too, not just SU.
IF customers are wanting to buy what they see on the cards. I know that is what encourages my club members to buy sets that they have been wondering about. Fortunately for me, my members only want to see suo because that is what I am selling them.
I dunno. I have seen CTMH ads, Longaberger ads, and TAC ads here, but I don't remember if they were powered by Google or not. And I know I've seen Lia Sophia & Partylite print ads. Lia Sophia also donates things to high profile celebrity event goodie bags, which is then used for advertising. If SU sees the non-direct sales companies as competitors as far as their IDA goes, why not advertise against them too? Like I posted earlier, they advertise in magazines, so why not online? 20% discount isn't putting money into their consultants, IMO. Especially when they manufacture their own products. So, yes, the cards help you, but if they help you sell product, they help SU's bottom line.
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