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Old 09-03-2009, 08:15 AM   #601
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AMEN StampinChrissylea. . - lol have a great one
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:16 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by StampinChrissylea View Post
Your demo is very generous, and is using part of her 20% commission to offer that service to you. She deserves a nice birthday gift from her customers!
Really? You guys do this for just 20%? And have all those rules? That is just not enough for what you have to do. The overhead with that big pretty building must be something else....
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:23 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Mrs Nickel View Post
I think one gal a few pages back said it best that 'when we signed our original contract with SUP!, we agreed to not sell or promote other companies at our WORKSHOPS, CLASSES, etc.'

NO WHERE did we say that IN OUR OWN PERSONAL TIME we wouldn't work at the Local Scrapbook Store or IN OUR OWN TIME 'NOT share our creations of other products' on our 'personal blogs'.

If I was paying SUP $5.00 a month to host my blog, like blogspot does for free, then I would see how they could ask me to stop showing other product on my SUP based-blog. But my blog is mine, ya follow?

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this any different if I was working full time at Walmart and had an extra part time job at Kmart? Walmart doesn't have a rule that if you work at Kmart part time you can't tell anyone, right? I know these are apples to oranges in comparison, but do you know what I mean?
I totally agree with this post!!! Legally SU! CANNOT mandate what you do in your free time.

Would be interesting to see if someone pushed them on this issue.

If it is your personal blog and you are using other products or linking to someone who happens to sale fantastic stamps it is your choice! Stampin UP! can't mandate what their demonstrators do in their free time or with their resources. It really is that simple!

Now if you are promoting other companies on a blog or website that Stampin Up! hosts they can mandate what you can and can't post, as far as I know they don't own typepad, blogger, or any other blog hosts sites...LOL
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:26 AM   #604
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For those of you who were discussing free shipping/discounts from demos, did you know that they are not in compliance with SU? It states as much in the current IDA. That would be an ongoing discount, something which SU does not condone.
Um, no it doesn't. Same goes for the Demonstrator Manual.

Now, if a demo were giving everyone, say, 20% off on every order, or telling every potential recruit, "20% off the starter kit if you sign up under me!" that would be another matter entirely! That's really a matter for the SU! compliance department, though, and if they do determine that someone is engaging in continual discounting, that person will become ineligible for any incentive awards for the remainder of the catalog year, simple as that.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:31 AM   #605
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Your demo is very generous, and is using part of her 20% commission to offer that service to you. She deserves a nice birthday gift from her customers!
She loves me!! And besides she's one of my best friends and plus she always scores big time when we go to yard sales. She's not in it to make money(hobby demo) ...only to have fun and that has made all the difference to our club. I am very lucky.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:31 AM   #606
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Question...in the new IDA under section 9,
(f) Non-Disparagement: I will refrain from disparaging the Company or its Products or services.

Does this mean we cannot make constructive criticism/suggestions?
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #607
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I would like to address something that was said earlier. Yes, you can do what ever you want on your blog; however, SU WILL decided who they allow to sell their products and if you do not abide by their rules you will lose your demonstratorship!
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #608
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For those of you who were discussing free shipping/discounts from demos, did you know that they are not in compliance with SU? It states as much in the current IDA. That would be an ongoing discount, something which SU does not condone.
!
Please direct me to the portion of the demo agreement that states this.
I have read it twice now and don't see this.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:38 AM   #609
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This has always puzzled me. In Florida, shipping is not a taxable item, yet I get charged sales taxes on SU's shipping cost. I've asked several demos about this and they could not answer. I e-mailed SU directly and never received a reply.
Hi Nancy,
Different states call "Shipping" different things. In New Jersey, it's called "Delivery."

The reason why most online companies do not charge you tax on shipping or even on your sale is because they do not do business in that state.

In the case of Stampin' Up, they are registered as a business in EVERY state because they have independant demonstrators who are selling their products in their own state to residents of their own state.

Since SU does not require the demonstrators to keep track of and file their own sales tax returns and they do it on behalf of the demonstrator, they must charge sales tax on their taxable products and sales tax on the delivery of those taxable products which means shipping.

The laws may be similar in Florida but when you purchase over state lines or ship over state lines, those taxable items become exempt. With no taxable items being shipped, there is not tax on the shipping charges. (You can only tax shipping if there are taxable items in the order.)

At that point, it becomes the responsibility of the purchaser to file a sales tax form with their own state and list all purchases made outside state lines and pay "use tax" on those items.

I hope that makes sense.

I didn't want anyone to think that Gina K. Designs was breaking the law by NOT charging tax or tax on shipping to any of our customers outside of Wisconsin.

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Old 09-03-2009, 08:42 AM   #610
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Really? You guys do this for just 20%? .
You know what shocks me also, is that they don't get a bigger discount when they purchase items in the pre-order period before the new catty/mini comes out.
I know they've given some discounts on a bundle (like the in-colors), but I haven't seen anything else.
I know Longaberger baskets (another Direct sales company) used to give larger discounts. Not sure about any others.
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:43 AM   #611
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After reading 13 pages of this, my strongest reaction is a definite objection to being referred to as the "uninformed public". Am I too stupid to understand the wording of this new set of rules? Too stupid to be able to figure out what they mean? Or, just not in the SU loop to be able to make a decision?

I will make my future SU buying decisions by BEING informed and this thread did a good job of informing me.

Oh- and yes, I think SU has gone way too far here.
I made that statement and I did not mean it as an insult to anyone. No one on this planet knows everything, we are all ignorant of something, even if it is simply being unaware of a particular conversation.

I stand by the statement. There have been many statements made here by demonstrators and non demonstrators that were made without all of the facts in this matter. Meaning they were uninformed. Even if you went to the posted website and read the FAQ, you did not have all of the facts and if you are not a demonstrator, you do not have a whole wealth of information that also affects this conversation. If you are lacking information, then you are uninformed. It is not a disparaging statement. I am sorry you were offended by it, not too many ways to word that differently.
I also stand by my statement that if demonstrators had waited a week or so (in this case a mere 24 hours) to discuss this on public boards, it would be a completely different conversation. SU frequently adjusts policies and procedures based on feedback from demonstrators, which is exactly what took place.
I didn't see a problem with what they were asking of us, I was already conducting my business in exactly that manner, so when the discussion ensued and I realized that also meant that other internet activities that have come to be a way of doing business on the web, would be affected I could see why some people would be upset. It would affect blog hops and challenge websites.
I am sure SU hadn't considered that either or if they were even aware of the importance to some demonstrators. I say that because the top demonstrators at SU this year all have high profile blogs and most of them were already running their blogs the way SU was requestiing. So you do not have to participate in those activities to be successful on the web. But, because demonstrator feel so strongly about these practices and deem them so important to the enjoyment of their blogs, SU changed the policies. Not because they were wrong. not because of any legalities, Not because it benefitted SU in any way, not because it is a NECESSARY component for demonstrators to be successful on the web, but because it was important to their demonstrators on a personal level. SU bends over backwards to make their demonstrators happy, when they can and when it is feasible from a business standpoint.

I wish some of you would use that information in your future postings.

Belinda
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Old 09-03-2009, 08:50 AM   #612
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I really understand the business side of things, I really do...but I think this is just harmful. I am sad and confused!! I have a SU consultant that I think is just great. She does not have a blog and she is just a hobbist. So I hope she is ok with all of this. I never bought any SU product before I met her and I've been buying over 8 years and she is the sole reason why I buy SU. I think their products are great but I don't know if I can support a company with just strict rules. I mean I'm sure I will buy from my consultant "some" as long as she stays a demo but after that........I don't know.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:02 AM   #613
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I think the biggest collateral damage is the damage between demonstrators, customers, and friends. This knee jerk reaction has caused a lot of damage to just about everyone, no matter what their level of commitment to SU!, and certainly doesn't go hand in hand with their mission statement:

To love what we do
and share what we love
as we help others enjoy creativity
and worthwhile accomplishments
in this we make a difference!

In another thread on another planet in another galaxy, far, far, away, I've read multiple times about demonstrators asking advice on what to do with that customer who bought an item SU! sells in their catalog, but is also is sold at another store for a deeper discount, and they want help in using the product. Seems to be such a big deal to many on if they should help their customer. My question is cases like that is are they your customer first, friend second or the other way around? So many support the right to tell the customer they can't tell them anything because they didn't purchase it from them. I find that sad as my customers are my friends first. The other philosophy doesn't support the mission statement either, in my opinion, of course.

My wish is that when the dust settles and everyone has figured out what is best for them, that we all get back to doing what we love.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:08 AM   #614
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......
My wish is that when the dust settles and everyone has figured out what is best for them, that we all get back to doing what we love.
Well, said. Me too.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:09 AM   #615
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Actually, no, that's not correct. The only reason you wouldn't be able to link to her page is if you could actually purchase something on her page. If you can purchase competing product FROM her, right there, then you could not link to her. If she just has a link herself, then it's not a problem. Straight from the horse's mouth, last night in SU's webinar with Shelli et.al...

That brings up a question I had last night after Shelly said this. For example, could I list a link to "Capture The Moment" on my blog? It's Nichole Heady's blog (Papertrey) and you can't technically buy anything directly on her blog but she has a link to Papertrey on it. I guess maybe I'm splitting hairs but since I can't order from "Capture The Moment", I would think that a link to her blog would be ok, right?
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:13 AM   #616
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Question...in the new IDA under section 9,
(f) Non-Disparagement: I will refrain from disparaging the Company or its Products or services.

Does this mean we cannot make constructive criticism/suggestions?
no, but you need to do that in the right place and not on websites where your comments can be seen by anyone. And it really doesn't pertain to simple constructive criticism it means to harm someones reputation and in a legal sense it usually means you are giving out inaccurate or incomplete information that harms someone's reputation.

Most companies who require you to sign a contract have this clause. If you work at our local school they have a clause that says you cannot discuss any policies in a negative manner outside the proper forums, even if what you are saying is correct. That is not the exact wording but it is close. Same thing.

While we are on that subject, just something we should all think of as the world wide web is changing. Some people think that you can say anything as long as they say that it is just their opinion. A recent court case says you can't. If your information is incorrect or false and libels or slanders someone (harms their reputation or they can prove the false statements affected them financially) they they can sue you. You can't say anything you want anywhere you want. It has to be true and without malice.

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Old 09-03-2009, 09:14 AM   #617
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Just out of curiosity...

Could a SU demo post a link to my TAC blog, knowing that I'm TAC, there is no shopping cart directly on my blog, but there IS a link telling people they could "click to shop now"??? That link then takes them to my TAC website where they CAN purchase?

So...if a SU demo posted to my blog (or someone's like mine), would that be legit or not?
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:15 AM   #618
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I like to stamp. I like my SU! products, I like my "everything else" products. I like SCS and I would like a separate SU! community as well.

If I did not have these things in my life I would be sad. This is why I am willing to accept the changes. I do not want to see SU! go by wayside (or any other company for that matter) and if these were better economic times I'm sure they wouldn't have had to contemplate these changes.

I am sorry so many people wish ill will on SU!. The comments about such things as Shelli's blog, her building, prohibiting freedom of speech are so disheartening to me. There are many things about the company that I would like to see change but what I see here is full blown bashing. I don't see how it is helpful and it is causing much sadness among your fellow stampers.

To the demos on design teams, I feel muchly for you and am sorry you have to make a choice. I know it must be very difficult. I was very lucky in that my mother became a demo when I started working with other companies so I was able to have the best of both worlds. Maybe you will have someone in your life that you can do that with as well. Lastly, I hope you do not write-off SU! entirely but if you do I would definitely understand.

Peace -
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:15 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by dianerh View Post
Just out of curiosity...

Could a SU demo post a link to my TAC blog, knowing that I'm TAC, there is no shopping cart directly on my blog, but there IS a link telling people they could "click to shop now"??? That link then takes them to my TAC website where they CAN purchase?

So...if a SU demo posted to my blog (or someone's like mine), would that be legit or not?
Nope, not the way I understand it. If the link "click to shop now" wasn't there, then they could. At least that is how I interpret the revised terminology.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:18 AM   #620
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Really? I wasn't sure if I was understanding right since they can't shop DIRECTLY on my blog.

Wow...I feel sorry for all you SU demos (and my SU demo friends) who must make tough decisions. ;-(
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:19 AM   #621
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Oh I must have lost my brain! I have to quit anyway because I won't give up Christian Paper Crafts. Duh.

OH CINDY!! I had to laugh when I read that! You poor thing! I think you are choosing wisely though! HUGS, Nicole Anderson
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:24 AM   #622
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I totally agree with this post!!! Legally SU! CANNOT mandate what you do in your free time.

Would be interesting to see if someone pushed them on this issue.

If it is your personal blog and you are using other products or linking to someone who happens to sale fantastic stamps it is your choice! Stampin UP! can't mandate what their demonstrators do in their free time or with their resources. It really is that simple!

Now if you are promoting other companies on a blog or website that Stampin Up! hosts they can mandate what you can and can't post, as far as I know they don't own typepad, blogger, or any other blog hosts sites...LOL
Legally, yes they can. I think they could under the current contract because you agreed not to endorse other products and you also agree to abide by all of the company policies and I believe they would have a case to prove that most blogs represent an online classroom if you are representing yourself as a demonstrator and are selling product from there.

The new IDA just clarifies that. When you sign a contract and agree to abide by the policies of that company, they don't have to be in the IDA. They can change the policies at any time and if you don't comply they can terminate your contract. You can still do whatever you want in your blog, SU just doesn't have to allow you to represent them.

By having everyone sign a new IDA, no one can come back and say oh, I didn't understand that policy. Kind of like some people didn't know they couldn't sell on ebay ( some really didn't, some were pretending not to know) This way you have been told in writing and have agreed in writing.

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Old 09-03-2009, 09:28 AM   #623
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Really? You guys do this for just 20%? And have all those rules? That is just not enough for what you have to do. The overhead with that big pretty building must be something else....
Nope, we can make up to 40% based on what we sell in a month and there are lots of other discounts and freebies along the way plus plenty of other monetary rewards that we can earn quarterly, yearly and over our lifetime sales. We just get to keep 20% off the top and the rest comes in a monthly or other check. We also earn free merchandise quarterly based on our sales. Hobby demos get to get an instant 20% discount even if they don't have other sales.

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Old 09-03-2009, 09:31 AM   #624
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You know what shocks me also, is that they don't get a bigger discount when they purchase items in the pre-order period before the new catty/mini comes out.
I know they've given some discounts on a bundle (like the in-colors), but I haven't seen anything else.
I know Longaberger baskets (another Direct sales company) used to give larger discounts. Not sure about any others.

You are correct about them discounting the INCOLOR bundles, but you are incorrect on the other; sometimes (let me reitterate SOMETIMES) SUP does indeed give ADDITIONAL discounts during the pre-order period.

At least they used to.

JUST ON SELECTED ITEMS, they were giving additional percentage off on top of the demo's discount. And they also give opportunities to earn a certain item free (or discounted) if we place a pre-order of a pre-set $xx.xx amount.

There is nothing set in stone, so the promos vary, but at least there are some offered, that is one perk of being a demo. Just wanted to clarify this, HTH!
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:32 AM   #625
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Really? You guys do this for just 20%? And have all those rules? That is just not enough for what you have to do. The overhead with that big pretty building must be something else....
The percentage depends on how hard you want to work your business or not.
I would say, guesstimating of course, that the bulk of their demonstrators fall into the 20% bracket, but others earn much more in overrides, free product, etc. depending on what they personally sell, how many are in their downlines, etc. Where I live, the 20% pretty much covers S/H and sales tax.

And I agree, for many, that 20% just doesn't cut the mustard anymore.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:38 AM   #626
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I had actually summarized my feelings in another thread that has disappeared, but in a nut shell: this entire situation really is musch like real life. there seems to be several separate 'camps'.
1. long time SU supporters: you are not going to change their minds, no matter what.
2. the converted/or never were SU : you are not going to change their minds, NMW.
3. the rest of us: hobby demos, customers, stampers.

My biggest complaint about all of this dialogue is that I have given this ANY thought at all. I stamp to relax, to unwind. I became a hobby demo, like many, for the discount. and now to have spent any time/stress worrying about this annoys me. that will probably be the biggest deciding factor. There are so many companies out there with fabulous products that we all want to try!! Who wants to put blinders on????
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:39 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by 11Valerie11 View Post
I think the biggest collateral damage is the damage between demonstrators, customers, and friends. This knee jerk reaction has caused a lot of damage to just about everyone, no matter what their level of commitment to SU!, and certainly doesn't go hand in hand with their mission statement:

To love what we do
and share what we love
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in this we make a difference!

In another thread on another planet in another galaxy, far, far, away, I've read multiple times about demonstrators asking advice on what to do with that customer who bought an item SU! sells in their catalog, but is also is sold at another store for a deeper discount, and they want help in using the product. Seems to be such a big deal to many on if they should help their customer. My question is cases like that is are they your customer first, friend second or the other way around? So many support the right to tell the customer they can't tell them anything because they didn't purchase it from them. I find that sad as my customers are my friends first. The other philosophy doesn't support the mission statement either, in my opinion, of course.

My wish is that when the dust settles and everyone has figured out what is best for them, that we all get back to doing what we love.
The kneejerk reactions have been made by upset demonstrators who brought this to public forums. Not by SU who made a hard decision, thoght it out, looked at the legalities of it. Posted it and then revised it out of compassion for their demonstrators. Were demonstrators wrong? I would say they are human, and were upset and suffering and came to the place where they can vent. Not wrong, but also not helpful in any way. To themselves or anyone else. But don't blame SU for that.

Belinda
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:51 AM   #628
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I keep coming back and reading all the posts, and I still just feel a lot of anger at the whole SU decision, and personally think it's incredibly stupid! If SU is a business for you then of course you are going to be following these rules. Makes sense. If you are a hobby demo like many of us are, then SU is still getting our money. We are putting in more orders than we probably would had we not been demos, PLUS, we are using your products and promoting them on our blogs! It's FREE advertising for them!!! I don't make SU only cards most of the time, and I am on 2 Design Teams and I promote their products as well! WHO CARES!!! SU is still getting FREE advertising on almost everything I make! NOT ANY MORE!!! This decision makes me want to boycott SU. I have already informed my group of friends who faithfully put in order EVERY MONTH that I no longer support SU and they wholeheartedly agree with my decision. What was the harm in letting us have our freedom to create! Their supplies were being used on a regular basis but the fact that they want to stifle my creativity like that makes me outraged! You will not tell me what I can put on my personal blog, and what inspires me!!! It's my hobby!!! Those who are involved with SU as a business make different decisions, and won't be affected by this! How stupid can they be not to see this!!! Am I wrong here???
I FEEL YOU ARE CORRECT, KERRI!

Why didn't they just amend this for those demo's that are of a certain 'level' like 'SENIOR SUPERVISOR and above' who are probably the ones really working the business as business?

As another intelligent gal said, "ONE cannot live on SUP alone!" and might I add, at least NOT one who feels they have true artistry and want and NEED to express it. WHY would any artist want to put a limit on themselves? They wouldn't. SUP offers only "SO MUCH" and does not have a vast array of creative-options ENOUGH to expect us to keep to their product ONLY.

Ya follow?

Instead of stifling us and our customers, step up to the plate and offer MORE so we will WANT TO USE ONLY SUP PRODUCTS! When you have covered enough creative-ground and offer a variety of art mediums like alcohol markers like COPIC, glitter glues like Stickles and versatile/stackable/cookie cutter dies like nestibilities (just to name a few), I may re-think using SUP ONLY products but until then........
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:55 AM   #629
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The kneejerk reactions have been made by upset demonstrators who brought this to public forums. Not by SU who made a hard decision, thoght it out, looked at the legalities of it. Posted it and then revised it out of compassion for their demonstrators. Were demonstrators wrong? I would say they are human, and were upset and suffering and came to the place where they can vent. Not wrong, but also not helpful in any way. To themselves or anyone else. But don't blame SU for that.

Belinda
Why not post it in a public forum? It affects customers as well, many are very likely loosing their demo over this new IDA. For some, it may be the only demo in their little town, for others, it may not be the case, but for all it's a sad thing.

Hiding behind a wall, once a proclamation has been made that affects many who are people first, customers or demonstrators second, doesn't bode well for any company. As far as revising the IDA after the fact, sure it was the right thing to do, but it should have been visualized before the initial announcement that many would feel that their rights, whether you (the general you) believe that to be the case or not, were being trampled on.

Again, once all is said and done, and everyone's decisions have been made, I hope that everyone can get back to the business of being creative without having these huge walls being up. It really has created an us vs. them mentality that is so sad.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:59 AM   #630
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I FEEL YOU ARE CORRECT, KERRI!

Why didn't they just amend this for those demo's that are of a certain 'level' like 'SENIOR SUPERVISOR and above' who are probably the ones really working the business as business?

As another intelligent gal said, "ONE cannot live on SUP alone!" and might I add, at least NOT one who feels they have true artistry and want and NEED to express it. WHY would any artist want to put a limit on themselves? They wouldn't. SUP offers only "SO MUCH" and does not have a vast array of creative-options ENOUGH to expect us to keep to their product ONLY.

Ya follow?

Instead of stifling us and our customers, step up to the plate and offer MORE so we will WANT TO USE ONLY SUP PRODUCTS! When you have covered enough creative-ground and offer a variety of art mediums like alcohol markers like COPIC, glitter glues like Stickles and versatile/stackable/cookie cutter dies like nestibilities (just to name a few), I may re-think using SUP ONLY products but until then........
I am correcting myself above here....... I WILL NEVER USE "SUP ONLY".

Even if they DID offer a vast array, I still have to admit that I am always looking to branch out, perfect my style, try new techniques, new tools, new toys.

I will never use ANY ONE COMPANY "ONLY" EVER! That is the joy that one has when they are self-employed and a self-representing artist! You DO what you want!
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:05 AM   #631
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What I am still have trouble with is the SU wanting complete control over your electronic communication. There is no leeway to have your fantastic business SU blog AND your fantastic independent this is another aspect of me blog. Many people can do both and do them well and truthfully if I followed and loved an independent blog and saw that they were a demo it would pique my curiosity and I would look at their SU blog - if they were doing equal work it would really turn on my creative wonderment and I would want to buy the stuff no matter the brand to make my stuff look like theirs.

To me SU demo is like wearing a job uniform - you should do your job but you should also be allowed to take off your uniform when you aren't working.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:07 AM   #632
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I had actually summarized my feelings in another thread that has disappeared, but in a nut shell: this entire situation really is musch like real life. there seems to be several separate 'camps'.
1. long time SU supporters: you are not going to change their minds, no matter what.
2. the converted/or never were SU : you are not going to change their minds, NMW.
3. the rest of us: hobby demos, customers, stampers.

My biggest complaint about all of this dialogue is that I have given this ANY thought at all. I stamp to relax, to unwind. I became a hobby demo, like many, for the discount. and now to have spent any time/stress worrying about this annoys me. that will probably be the biggest deciding factor. There are so many companies out there with fabulous products that we all want to try!! Who wants to put blinders on????
Who said you had to?

Everyone knows I love rubber, in every way shape and form it comes in. I have...cough...SOME other companies' products in my stamping room ...okay, okay, I have a LOT of other companies' products in my stamping room! Stampin' Up! is not making me take all that to the dump. SU! is not making me stop using it, or even stop displaying projects I make with it on my blog. They just don't want me to tell people where to buy it, with a link to a webstore to make it easier. Can people ask me who made it? Certainly and I can even answer them.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the new IDA. I am sad for my friends who are on DTs who now have to choose and if I were on a DT I would also be making the choice. But I haven't done design team work in over a year, so my choice was fairly simple.

I know there has been a lot of rumors floating around as to what this all means. I hope people don't get their undies all in a bunch over this and will continue to buy the rubber they like and use the products they like and share them with everyone they want to. And demos still can do that...there are just rules about how you can do it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:11 AM   #633
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I'm just curious (i'm not an SU demo) How will this affect the SCS gallery? I've read all these posts and my head is spinnig...lol...so this may have been answered and I might have missed it....but If a SU demo posts a card can they fill in all the details in the gallery? Will they be able to say MS such and such punch in the accessories section or colored with blah blah... Sentiment from ginak or anything like that or will it all have to be left blank? I like reading all the details of how the cards were put together and would miss that if alot will have to start leaving that all blank.

Thanks
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:14 AM   #634
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I'm just curious (i'm not an SU demo) How will this affect the SCS gallery? I've read all these posts and my head is spinnig...lol...so this may have been answered and I might have missed it....but If a SU demo posts a card can they fill in all the details in the gallery? Will they be able to say MS such and such punch in the accessories section or colored with blah blah... Sentiment from ginak or anything like that or will it all have to be left blank? I like reading all the details of how the cards were put together and would miss that if alot will have to start leaving that all blank.

Thanks
That's something that I think SU! will have to clarify soon.

Personally, I think we should be able to name products in a gallery posting as long as we are not linking. But that's one of the finer points they haven't exactly made clear yet.

On our blogs? we have to be vague and fuzzy. But we can answer questions about manufacturers when asked.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:18 AM   #635
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Question...in the new IDA under section 9,
(f) Non-Disparagement: I will refrain from disparaging the Company or its Products or services.

Does this mean we cannot make constructive criticism/suggestions?
"Constructive" criticism (which by its very definition "builds up" by including helpful suggestions for improvement) is perfectly fine -- going into a public forum guns blazing and completely venting your spleen about how furious you are, how wrong-headed the whole mess is, and how the company is screwing themselves is another matter entirely. It's possible to discuss problems, concerns and disagreements in a civil manner without degenerating into personal attacks and mudslinging.

Went to consult a dictionary for the exact meaning, and to disparage means to belittle, or to speak of something with contempt. Simply disagreeing with something and saying so is not disparaging.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:20 AM   #636
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Why not post it in a public forum? It affects customers as well, many are very likely loosing their demo over this new IDA. For some, it may be the only demo in their little town, for others, it may not be the case, but for all it's a sad thing.

Hiding behind a wall, once a proclamation has been made that affects many who are people first, customers or demonstrators second, doesn't bode well for any company. As far as revising the IDA after the fact, sure it was the right thing to do, but it should have been visualized before the initial announcement that many would feel that their rights, whether you (the general you) believe that to be the case or not, were being trampled on.

Again, once all is said and done, and everyone's decisions have been made, I hope that everyone can get back to the business of being creative without having these huge walls being up. It really has created an us vs. them mentality that is so sad.
Because people are upset about things that are not even relevant at this point. People are reading this thread today and getting angry about things that are not even true or are have already been changed and some don't even bother to read to the end so they have no idea what the truth is.

And SU can't always be aware of how their demonstrators are going to react to things until they do. Nor can they know exactly what component is going to upset them the most, until they put it out there. I am a demonstrator and It never occured to me to get upset about any of this.
A company shouldn't have to be psychic to deal with their employees, 99% would post a policy and tell you to deal with it or leave.

If you think that other companies don't make decisions, post them and have their employees go off the deep end about them, you are wrong. The difference is that if they came to a public forum and vented they would be fired, just for doing that. Recently some people were fired for saying things in a closed forum about their employers in a high profile my space case.

The ironic twist here is that everyone is acting like SU is behaving in such a mean and unfair manner, when the truth is that they are being more compassionate, fair and bending than any other company out there would be.

Belinda

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Old 09-03-2009, 10:30 AM   #637
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Wow! The SU regs make fascinating reading - I just got into stamping over a year ago and the one thing that hooked me was the friendliness of stamping folk, the willingness to exchange ideas and information and the freedom of choice that there is. I've lost count of the things i've bought 'cos i saw them on so and so's blog.

I feel that competition is good for everyone, keeps folks on their toes and opens up avenues for everyone, I love variety, my fave blogs are those where folks use loads of different product, I love to see new things constantly (bit of a magpie...).

My point is, the more I see, the more I want to see...I like a big old jumble of blogs pointing in every direction, I revel in the choice!! bet loads of others do too...

I don't think it's fair to curb folks creativity by restricting them to one product line. Nuff said.
You've expressed my thoughts precisely! SU is really hurting themselves in the long run. I'm a customer only (not a demo) but I can assure you I've decided to buy SU products many times because of a gorgeous card that I saw on SCS or on a personal blog! Two of my favorite bloggers (Silke Ledlow & Mercy Kerin) have resigned as demos for SU. That really saddens me because they are terrific designers and now I won't have their samples to inspire me. Instead, their new designs will draw me to other companies. Com'on SU...wake up and smell the coffee!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:31 AM   #638
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I'm afraid I'll have to agree to disagree on some points, as the fight or flight mentality is taking over and I don't care for it one bit.

I do think that they could have predicted that by posting initially all the electronic medium was fair game was going to cause problems with the public and their opinions. I would think that you not being upset at all about it puts you in a minority, but if the new IDA suits you and works for you, that's wonderful. It's not the case for many.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:33 AM   #639
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In another thread on another planet in another galaxy, far, far, away, I've read multiple times about demonstrators asking advice on what to do with that customer who bought an item SU! sells in their catalog, but is also is sold at another store for a deeper discount, and they want help in using the product. Seems to be such a big deal to many on if they should help their customer. My question is cases like that is are they your customer first, friend second or the other way around? So many support the right to tell the customer they can't tell them anything because they didn't purchase it from them. I find that sad as my customers are my friends first. The other philosophy doesn't support the mission statement either, in my opinion, of course.
I have to play devil's advocate here for a second, Val. (Although I totally agree with everything else you have said and say KUDOS to you for the decision you have made) I work in an office where I sell products to schools. It's my living, which to some SU demos is the same (not all, but some). I have had a customer buy a printer from a big box office supply store, and then come to me for support because it's not offered from that store. And I have helped them because I felt I should, and because I wanted to. However, more often than not (trying not to make blanket statements here), that customer continued to take advantage of my kindness, time after time, while spending money with someone else because of price. It has happened time and time again, to the point where I have had to be strict and say, "Sure I'll be happy help you, but I will have to charge you." Because the time I spend helping them is time I could spend selling something to someone else, or helping a loyal customer.

I do think that you can tell the difference between a once in a while "needs help" friend that is a customer, and an ALL THE TIME "needs help" customer that is a friend. KWIM? And I, as a person trying to earn a living, would adjust my policies based on which kind of customer/friend they were.

Hope this gives you some perspective...just my lil' ole' 2 cents


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My wish is that when the dust settles and everyone has figured out what is best for them, that we all get back to doing what we love.
I totally agree.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:38 AM   #640
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I do think that you can tell the difference between a once in a while "needs help" friend that is a customer, and an ALL THE TIME "needs help" customer that is a friend. KWIM? And I, as a person trying to earn a living, would adjust my policies based on which kind of customer/friend they were.

Hope this gives you some perspective...just my lil' ole' 2 cents
Totally, Shannon! I guess determining those who consider SU! their job and not their hobby might be the distinction. I never, even in the beginning, considered SU! as something I was doing to earn a living. Even when I was making considerably more than I have in the last few years, it was still just a fun thing to do.

And being flexible is always the best policy, don't you think?

eta: I doubt your company's mission statement is anything near what SU!'s is, though, right? *grin*
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