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Old 09-03-2009, 03:34 AM   #521
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This will be my last post on this thread - I can go buy an Enquirer or a Star magazine if I want to continue to hear things twisted and misconstrued. I am amazed that so much negativity is still going in to twisting and misconstruing the truth. For the record - I just want to say, I was an SU demonstrator for 9 years before I ever heard of SCS. Of those 9 years, I was in the top 20 in sales for 8 of them. I ran such a successful business in NY that now that I have moved to Ohio- it's still our main source of income. TONS of my friends run very successful businesses and they don't and didn't need SCS to make that happen. SCS is like a wonderful sidedish to a great meal as far as I'm concerned. I love it, but I don't NEED it to run my business successfully by ANY means. They are two separate issues. (BTW, from Shelley's own mouth last night we are NOT restricted from SCS linking. It's not a store, in and of itself) I didn't start frequenting SCS until I moved to Ohio- mostly because I missed my stamping friends so much - had no one to "show my stuff" to, and no ones stuff to look at - so started on SCS. SCS has been a lifeline- for these 3 years. I have stamping friends now - but especially in that first year I was here - it was a lifeline. I just HATE the division guys- and all of this hashing and rehashing of half truths, hurts as an SU demonstrator. I had no idea there was so much SU hatred on this site. I always felt like it was a wonderful community of stamping friends who all shared with eachother. Now I feel like I will be walking in enemy territory - or at least many see the company I love the most as the enemy. In all of your concern for the changes and how they affect us demonstrators, your hashing and rehashing is hurting many who love Stampin'Up! and always will. You need to strip things back to realize that we are a direct sales company and the rules are different for us. The last time I had a CTMH person around me, she was showing me a STampendous catalog and swearing me to secrecy cuz she could lose her status as a consultant if they knew she was selling Stampendous on the side. It's universal among direct sales companies. All those companies on SCS - they can play by different rules - you are comparing apples to oranges as has been said over and over in this thread. As for me.....I keep coming back here wanting to defend what I love.....and I'm done. Just the comment above here - AND I QUOTE -

One more food for thought question. If you post something on your blog that used a non SU! item, which you did not give full information on because you're following your IDA, and I email you and ask about that *specific* thing - what then? Will you ignore me? Will you answer and break your contract? The ramifications of either scenario boggle the mind.

END QUOTE - THAT is not an issue. If asked for specifics we are totally encouraged to tell them - we are just asked not to blast the competition facts to everyone. We are allowed to use other stuff. We are allowed to link to SCS. We are allowed to do everything other direct sales companies are allowed to do. Please get your facts straight - really friends, I am not even angry as I am sending this - just kind of broken hearted. That's it for me - I've said my piece. Can't we all just be friends?
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:45 AM   #522
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ONE more thing....(breaking my promise to myself already) The whole gist of the changes was to reinforce rules and regulations that have been in place for YEARS. We were basically just told that we need to abide by the same rules on line as we would at a workshop and that design team members were still SU demonstrators and could not link to selling what they design. Makes perfect sense to me - you signed saying you would represent SU and NOT the competition - now - you are using other stamps and linking someone right to the order form???? Is it just ME, or can anyone else see why that might be a breach of contract? Well there was a lot of confusion on where the lines fell in all of this - and since SU hadn't clarified in a long time - they clarified. Even one of my closest SU friends who is on a few DT's said she was shocked when told at first she could be on a DT. Now they have taken a look at what this had all become and decided to draw the line in the sand and clarify what we could and could not do within the confines of what we promised in the first place. My friend said she is thru crying and knows she has a hard decision to make. I am praying for her, (selfishly that she will stay- but ready to let her go if that is the decision she makes) There are those of us aching because we will lose close friends from the SU ranks......(they will of course still be friends but our touch with them will be diminished just because we will not see them at SU events anymore) and coming on here seeing everything twisted and misconstrued adds to the pain. Anyway - just remember that these are the basics, they just don't want us selling other companies stuff. What's so HARD about that??? Okay- this really is it for me - I feel like I can relate to Belinda now.....

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Old 09-03-2009, 04:28 AM   #523
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Wow...this has sure been interesting to read....I, for one, will be severely limiting my SU buying. I just will find it difficult to financially support a company that is trying limit their employees' rights / freedoms.Instead of embracing the diversity and creativity in the crafting industry, they seem to want to be extremely controlling and bullying---which does not sit well for me at all. There's plenty of other wonderful companies out there that will benefit from my decision and will happily take my money.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:53 AM   #524
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I am totally on the fence about this one. I read and reread the new IDA and I see SU's point in some aspects and in other aspects, I disagree. I think parts are infringing on personal territory too much and I also think that they're really walking a thin line and a bit over it when it comes to our independent contractor agreement versus IRS rules as being 1099s because what they're mandating now basically turns us into employees rather than independent contractors.

I'm going to wait and see how this all plays out as there's already been changes to the new IDA and a tremendous backlash. I'm going to Regionals next weekend in Cincinnati and am looking forward to that and meeting a lot of you there. I have some great swaps to share with you!

I wasn't able to make it to the webinar last night so don't know what happened there and honestly, haven't read all 14 pages of this thread except for Karen Barber's posts and Bellegirl's.

This is an emotionally charged and very hot topic, and unfortunately is going to rock the stamping community and industry, but all of us as individuals don't have to let that happen.

I think the wisest thing we can all do is wait and see where the chips ultimately fall and make our decisions based on facts, personal comfort zones and what fits you comfortably and respect each others decisions.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:56 AM   #525
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I am still quitting and will no longer be buying SU stamps. There are to many other wonderful companies out there that have awesome images.
In fact - if you look in my signature line and follow the link A-Z websites - you will finds tons of great stamping stores.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:10 AM   #526
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Continue an open dialogue with SU Corp.

Mischelle, owner of TAC, answers questions on an Angels Only Blog.

I want to share an excerpt:
"QUESTION: CAN I USE MY BIG SHOT TO MAKE THINGS FOR MY FUNSHOP?

ANSWER: OF COURSE! YOU ARE A BUSINESS OWNER. USE YOUR INVESTMENTS TO CONTINUE BRINGING YOU INCOME! AS A BUSINESS OWNER IT'S A GREAT THING TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE STREAM OF INCOME! IN THIS I MEAN SOME OF YOUR INCOME MAY COME FROM BOOK PARTIES, SOME FROM HOSTESS CLUBS, SOME FROM YOUR HANDSTAMPED ITEMS ... DO YOU GET WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS?! DON'T LIMIT YOUR INCOME STREAMS! RUN YOUR BUSINESS IN A WAY THAT IT BRINGS YOU MORE BUSINESS AND MORE INCOME."

If you continue to share your concerns, Stampin' Up! may revisit some of their policies, and revise, to benefit all.

Before you resign, wait a few days and see how this all plays out

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Old 09-03-2009, 05:12 AM   #527
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I just do not know what I am going to do either. I am a hobby demo who loves SU - I mainly use their ribbon and paper products, but own a lot of stamps too. In my DT work I use SU products allll the time - in fact it is SU cardstock and ribbon on the cover of CardMaker magazine this month, and also SU cardstocks published inside the mag.

The promotion of SU is a two way street. They are getting promotion by being on the cover through my DT work for another company; this happens with MANY MANY other DT members. So many of us love SU but also other products. This new policy is creating a big divide and forcing us to separate our work from our hobby if we want to continue to be demos. But our work IS our hobby. It makes me so sad.

This policy will create SU only people from those who previously mingled products, and may boost sales among those numbers, but so many more will opt out, I wonder if it will even help them in the long run. Sad.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:40 AM   #528
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I just want to thank whoever stated that ds = demo support. For the first 8 pages, I was wondering why everyone was asking their Dear Son about the new changes.
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:58 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by jkstampin View Post
There is no problem with the intent as you have stated it. However, in their attempt to do this SU has gone too far in my opinion - that is the problem. They don't just cover our business presence on the internet, but all internet presence. If someone was to follow what has been described in the Q&A, sending an email to you sister to let her know about a great price you got on a Martha Stewart punch at Michaels would be a violation - even if that email is sent on a personal email account with no connection to your SU business.
This is simply incorrect. If we are asked a question about where we got something, we are encouraged to let them know. What is discouraged is boradcasting that information out to the universe via the internet. To me it's no different that if I am holding a stamp camp and someone asks me where to get an XYZ (presumable something that SU doesn't carry, because frankly if they asked about something that SU DOES carry I would point them to the page in the catalog) then, if I knew where to get an XYZ I'd tell them.

Likewise, if my sister also has a crafting blog and her blog happens to have links to other competitors, I am NOT prevented from linking to her site. On the other hand if my sister is a CM consulatant and she has a CM online store, or something to that effect, I cannot link to her site, which again, at least to me, makes perfect sense.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:03 AM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopping Diva View Post
I have to say, with so many wonderful companies out there like "PTI", "Gina K", "Unity", "Flourishes", just to name a few. SU! is just shooting themselves in the foot. Their paper can't even compare to "PTI's" and "Gina K's".

Oh, and one more thing that I was never going to mention, but now I will. How self-absorbed is Shelli's blog! It's just all about her and her family throwing money around on vacations, etc. She really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will not miss SU!
What's up with that comment?? I see tons of blogs every day that are nearly 100% family oriented...telling me about little Johhny's potty training, their fab trip to Paris, etc. Why should Shelli's blog need to be different from someone else's just because she is the founder of a major corporation?
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:06 AM   #531
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Okay, I have been reviewing this thread and trying to decide whether to say anything or not because I am not a demo but here goes:

I came to SCS because I was always looking for new ideas to use with my SU sets. My friend who used to be a SU demo was the one who directed me to this site. If SU had a site similar to this I probably would have gone there but they didn’t.

SCS opened a whole new world to me and I have learned so many things from this site that I was not getting from my demo or workshops, but that is because I am always wanting new ideas, in an instant, at anytime.

I still love the SU product, and I have bought more SU sets because of viewing the uploads here at SCS. I had thought of becoming a demo, but decided not to, because I knew I would have to limit myself to only using SU products for the classes I teach and while I love the SU product, I love all the other choices I have.

Change is hard and people have decisions to make. Threads like these are hard because people will state opinions without thinking of others and the bashing does happen. I remember when Daven and company decided to sell SCS and all the threads and controversy it caused about what was going to happen to SCS. What has happened? Just a better site, but we did lose some people because feelings were hurt.

The “new” enforcement from SU has not changed my opinion one way or another of the company because I always thought that was part of their contract.

I will still buy from SU because I like their stamps and images. I will buy from other companies because I love their products and having other choices. I will still visit peoples blogs whether they sell only SU or not, because I like their style. If I want to know where they got a certain product I will pm them. I will always come to SCS because of the great ideas we get from the challenges and more.

Good luck everyone with your individual decisions and have a great day.

Jody
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:09 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by mtgchic View Post
I just want to thank whoever stated that ds = demo support. For the first 8 pages, I was wondering why everyone was asking their Dear Son about the new changes.
LOL
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:18 AM   #533
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As a consumer, I feel the new dictates from the heads of SU are hurting a lot of people including the consumer. If my consultant is a hobbist, she is serving people like me that can't place a large order every time she has a workshop or every month. Sometimes I can only order a marker, but I order from her so she can keep selling. But we do share blogs, some of the stamps that I have purchased have been done so because I saw it used on a blog that was primarily for another product. Dictatorship is wrong, while I understand that SU wants their consultants to promote their products, I'm opposed to the banning of telling them what they can have on their personal blogs, and in their personal emails............. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Shellie. it is called competion........
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:20 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopping Diva View Post
I have to say, with so many wonderful companies out there like "PTI", "Gina K", "Unity", "Flourishes", just to name a few. SU! is just shooting themselves in the foot. Their paper can't even compare to "PTI's" and "Gina K's".

Oh, and one more thing that I was never going to mention, but now I will. How self-absorbed is Shelli's blog! It's just all about her and her family throwing money around on vacations, etc. She really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will not miss SU!


Do you realize that this comment can come across to reader's that you re jealous? Sometimes our written words can leave alot to be interperted by the reader, this is an example

I want to say for every reader, demo or customer, PLEASE seek the full truth of this situation. Many have been MISINFORMED go to the source, not your demo who may be tainted with disapproval, or simply not fully informed. I believe you can ask SU! It is your RIGHT to be informed but be informed fully and truthfully. PLEASE do not create your own opinion off someone else's reputation, interpetation, or relation. Stand up on our own and make your own choice, not influenced by others. That is how we show independence and maturity.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:21 AM   #535
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They don't use a bunch of different companies. While small order corrections may sometimes come via USPS Priority Mail, UPS is their carrier of choice -- it's funny, I always get a little warm fuzzy every time I see one of those brown trucks, because I've come to associate them with my SU! goodies!

If your order is not part of a workshop, in which case it must all be shipped to a single address, then let your demo know that you'd prefer to have it come directly to your home or that you'd like for your demo to deliver it. While I do have most orders sent to me (I like to check it over and make sure everything's in order and then include a little something extra in the bag as a thank-you gesture), I then personally deliver the merchandise to the customer. Even with workshops, I sort and bag the orders, add my thank-you card or gift, and then deliver them to the hostess for her to distribute to her friends.
Wow-- you're a great demo!! I love my demo, but she never puts in a little something extra, and we always have to go pick up our own stuff. My thing with shipping is.. let's say 12 people put in an order-- they're all paying 10% for the order even though its all shipped in the same box. And some of the most expensive things are the smallest. Seems odd that say it was a $600 party.. that SU collects $60 for shipping, when it might be a pretty small box. Holy Cow!

--- Sorry, I didn't mean to take this thread in a different direction, it's just the last few posts got me to thinking about it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:23 AM   #536
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What's up with that comment?? I see tons of blogs every day that are nearly 100% family oriented...telling me about little Johhny's potty training, their fab trip to Paris, etc. Why should Shelli's blog need to be different from someone else's just because she is the founder of a major corporation?
I agree, I'm not SU, however I had thought the thread has been 90% cordial. I don't see a problem with a business owner showing what she has achieved.

However, I do think that unless I have missed the update that SU still don't want you to link in any way to someone who could be a competitor. I understand their rationale, especially for business demos. However, for Hobby demos I think this is a whole can of worms.

I believe I asked this early and I think it is still relevant. If SusieSunshineHobby Demo links her friends without regard to sales as she is able to meet her minimums etc is she going to be ostracized by SU? by SU's Business Demos? Is she going to be dropped? etc. I think there is still a lot of gray area in this that should be thoroughly explored by anyone signing on.

The way I have read the "link" ing is a strong suggestion but the consequences of the actions are not laid out. Maybe they are in a different area of the contract and that is fine. However, I would venture to say that SU may have to rethink their business strategy and what they provide. For me personally if I am blog hopping and see a product that is SU and like it, even if it is amoungst other products I will seek it out and therefore it would be beneficial for the blog owner to tell me they are an SU demo of some sort if that is the case.

I'm always attracted to the Copic using blogs so that will probably rule out all the SU demo ones because I won't get them popping up on a "copic" search.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:27 AM   #537
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Just another thought -

Has SU considered that the stamping market is fairly saturated, not by product but by participants and that most people may want to see how SU's product interacts with what they already have?
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:28 AM   #538
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Quote:
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Likewise, if my sister also has a crafting blog and her blog happens to have links to other competitors, I am NOT prevented from linking to her site. On the other hand if my sister is a CM consulatant and she has a CM online store, or something to that effect, I cannot link to her site, which again, at least to me, makes perfect sense.
The above scenario is what really yanks my chain. I pay for and own my domain and what I choose to put on there is MY CHOICE and nobody has the right to dictate to me what I can and cannot put on my personal blog no matter what I do as an independent contractor. Honestly, I've seen a few militant SU-only demos, but the fact of the matter is, is that the majority of us like other stuff too.

On my blog, there's a lot of challenge sites that I have on my sidebar. I like doing Korin's Sweet 'N Sassy sketch challenge on Saturdays, I just got into Mercy Kerin's sketch challenge, and a lot of other places, like Faith Sisters, who also have their own products.

I'm actually surprised something like this made it through their legal department considering how strictly the IRS governs these types of employee versus IC regulations. Here's a helpful IRS source.

I think what really gets me though is that Splitcoast was actually started because of SU! Don't they realize that? SU is the only company here that has private demonstrator support and networking forums, only their stamp sets you can pick by choice in the gallery when you upload, demo projects, all the works! SCS gives SU tremendous amount of free advertising!

Like I said earlier, I am going to see how this all really plays out and make my decision from there. I make what I consider to be an okay income from SU and have downline, which all of them but one (she's on the fence) have said that they are leaving so in essence, that crashes my promotions and my personal investment into my downline and tanks out my present title, and I don't see how SU can claim that that protects "their investment" into their demos.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:31 AM   #539
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To KITTY 14 -

The decision to charge you tax on your shipping is made by New Jersey, not Stampin'Up! I know that for sure because this varies state to state and pertains to direct sales companies I believe. Just clarifying that one point.
YES! I DO KNOW THAT! All I am saying is that it was just 1 more reason I gave up on SU!

Why don't other companies I deal with do that tax on the shipping thing then? They certainly KNOW nthat I am in NJ! They have the address to shipm me the items!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:36 AM   #540
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Oh I must have lost my brain! I have to quit anyway because I won't give up Christian Paper Crafts. Duh.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:37 AM   #541
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I just want to thank whoever stated that ds = demo support. For the first 8 pages, I was wondering why everyone was asking their Dear Son about the new changes.
LMBO That is hilarious!!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:41 AM   #542
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Wow-- you're a great demo!! I love my demo, but she never puts in a little something extra, and we always have to go pick up our own stuff. My thing with shipping is.. let's say 12 people put in an order-- they're all paying 10% for the order even though its all shipped in the same box. And some of the most expensive things are the smallest. Seems odd that say it was a $600 party.. that SU collects $60 for shipping, when it might be a pretty small box. Holy Cow!

--- Sorry, I didn't mean to take this thread in a different direction, it's just the last few posts got me to thinking about it.
Wow, you would love my demo. Shipping is ALWAYS FREE. In addition, when we used to get stamps that needed to be cut and mounted, she would do that for us also before dropping by with our orders. She is totally the coolest.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:42 AM   #543
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Do you really think SU is keeping your sales tax on shipping? They collect that tax and turn it over to the state as required by law. Protest to your state legislators if you are upset about it! I don't like it either but I don't blame companies for following their legal obligations to collect sales tax.

IF you read my whole post, I said that I KNOW it is a legal thing! I expected that they would turn the money over to the proper source! I DID say that it was just the LAST STRAW for me because that made my orders just too expensive! PLUS, there is nothing in that catalog for me anymore!
I am not stupid!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:42 AM   #544
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The above scenario is what really yanks my chain. I pay for and own my domain and what I choose to put on there is MY CHOICE and nobody has the right to dictate to me what I can and cannot put on my personal blog no matter what I do as an independent contractor. Honestly, I've seen a few militant SU-only demos, but the fact of the matter is, is that the majority of us like other stuff too.

On my blog, there's a lot of challenge sites that I have on my sidebar. I like doing Korin's Sweet 'N Sassy sketch challenge on Saturdays, I just got into Mercy Kerin's sketch challenge, and a lot of other places, like Faith Sisters, who also have their own products.

I'm actually surprised something like this made it through their legal department considering how strictly the IRS governs these types of employee versus IC regulations. Here's a helpful IRS source.

I think what really gets me though is that Splitcoast was actually started because of SU! Don't they realize that? SU is the only company here that has private demonstrator support and networking forums, only their stamp sets you can pick by choice in the gallery when you upload, demo projects, all the works! SCS gives SU tremendous amount of free advertising!

Like I said earlier, I am going to see how this all really plays out and make my decision from there. I make what I consider to be an okay income from SU and have downline, which all of them but one (she's on the fence) have said that they are leaving so in essence, that crashes my promotions and my personal investment into my downline and tanks out my present title, and I don't see how SU can claim that that protects "their investment" into their demos.
I don't know if SCS is reading this thread post by post ~ but if they are ~ then I wish they would extend this type of gallery service to their Member companies as well!!! I do like being able to find SU samples by set ~ but I really wish I could do so as easily with say Unity, GinaK, MFT, etc. Cause sometimes I don't know the exact name & seeing the thumbnail of the set lets me know what it is. Not only that but when you search one of the Member cos. by their name ~ you only get the latest 6000 images ~ well, for most that is only samples from 2009, I want to see older set example as well...
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:45 AM   #545
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To Kitty 14 - Are they direct sales companies? I am quite sure that some of those restrictions apply to direct sales companies only.

To Cindy- Are you sure you can't link to challenges? They aren't stores, are they? I'm not all that savvy in how all that works - but check it out- call DS - your dear son, or demonstrator support even, (I SO appreciated that splash of great humor in the midst of all this heavy stuff earlier) but Cindy check it out - okay? Cuz so much stuff is misunderstood at this point. I was on the webinar last night. Cleared up lots of stuff for me. Good luck - I hope you stick around with SU!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:46 AM   #546
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YES! I DO KNOW THAT! All I am saying is that it was just 1 more reason I gave up on SU!

Why don't other companies I deal with do that tax on the shipping thing then? They certainly KNOW nthat I am in NJ! They have the address to shipm me the items!!!!!
While I can't say with 100% certainty, it again has to do with state laws. I believe that any internet company that has a bricks & mortor presences in your state is required by state law to collect sales tax. Even though SU does not have a bricks & mortor presence, by their business model of having demonstrators in each state selling to customers in a particular state, they (SU) are required by law to collect sales tax regardless of whether your order is placed at a home party or via your demonstrator's website.

I would venture to guess that if SU did NOT collect the NJ sales tax from you, based upon their business model in your state, that the State of NJ would come after them.

I can say that at least here in Ohio where sales tax is charged on shipping I have beeen charged sales tax by EVERY direct sales/home party plan order I have placed whether it was placed at my friend's party or directly from the consultant's website.

Lastly, another piece of food for thought on the sales tax issue, if you are placing orders via the internet from companies that are not charging you sales tax on yoru order, then check your state laws. I know that here in Ohio, the tax code states that we are supposed to disclose to the state what we spent via the internet and are required to remit the applicable sales tax due with our income tax returns each April. Does everyone do this? If I was a betting woman I would say that less than 10% comply with this law, but it is on the books nonetheless.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:49 AM   #547
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This is simply incorrect. If we are asked a question about where we got something, we are encouraged to let them know. What is discouraged is boradcasting that information out to the universe via the internet. To me it's no different that if I am holding a stamp camp and someone asks me where to get an XYZ (presumable something that SU doesn't carry, because frankly if they asked about something that SU DOES carry I would point them to the page in the catalog) then, if I knew where to get an XYZ I'd tell them.

.
IMO, she IS correct.

Sending a personal email to family or friend about a great deal found at Michaels is a violation of the IDA since the IDA covers all email, personal and business.

Here's another example that I like to use:
A friend asks me in an email about my Scor Pal. I cannot tell her about a website I know of that sells it for the lowest price because that website also sells non-SU!-exclusive sizzix dies. If I told her about that place, I would be in violation of the IDA even though it is a personal email to a friend.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:49 AM   #548
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IF you read my whole post, I said that I KNOW it is a legal thing! I expected that they would turn the money over to the proper source! I DID say that it was just the LAST STRAW for me because that made my orders just too expensive! PLUS, there is nothing in that catalog for me anymore!
I am not stupid!!!!!!!!
This reasoning I can certainly understand. SU is not for everyone and I don't think that any one company can be for everyone. It just sounded like form your original post that you were angry at SU because they were complying with your state's laws regarding the collection of sales tax. I know that I often run into customers who are upset about the tax on shipping because they don't understand that it is a state law issue vs a SU issue.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:50 AM   #549
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I just want to thank whoever stated that ds = demo support. For the first 8 pages, I was wondering why everyone was asking their Dear Son about the new changes.
Not sure if it was me, but I know I did clarify it in parentheses, so if it was me, you're quite welcome! I know that many do not know what the abbreviations stand for...and Dear Son is NOT the case this time! LOL
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:53 AM   #550
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Wow, you would love my demo. Shipping is ALWAYS FREE. In addition, when we used to get stamps that needed to be cut and mounted, she would do that for us also before dropping by with our orders. She is totally the coolest.
Now that is SERVICE!!! I'm pretty sure I'd order from her even if the item was available from a big box store at a cheaper rate ~ just to help her stay in business!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:53 AM   #551
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IMO, she IS correct.

Sending a personal email to family or friend about a great deal found at Michaels is a violation of the IDA since the IDA covers all email, personal and business.

Here's another example that I like to use:
A friend asks me in an email about my Scor Pal. I cannot tell her about a website I know of that sells it for the lowest price because that website also sells non-SU!-exclusive sizzix dies. If I told her about that place, I would be in violation of the IDA even though it is a personal email to a friend.
I believe that your statements are actually contrary to what Shelli stated in her webinar to demonstrators last night. On the other hand, the practical part of me also says that what we tell one or two people in a personal email or in person will NEVER come to the attention of SU and therefore will not rise to the level of a violation. In addition, I truly believe that if a demonstrator, int he opinion of SU violates the new policy, SU will point out the violation, explain how the action is a violation, and essentially give the demonstrator a warning.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:54 AM   #552
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IMO, she IS correct.

Sending a personal email to family or friend about a great deal found at Michaels is a violation of the IDA since the IDA covers all email, personal and business.

Here's another example that I like to use:
A friend asks me in an email about my Scor Pal. I cannot tell her about a website I know of that sells it for the lowest price because that website also sells non-SU!-exclusive sizzix dies. If I told her about that place, I would be in violation of the IDA even though it is a personal email to a friend.
And to build on that from the potential customer's POV (point of view, nothing to do with anyone's son) if you are a demo and pointed me to a great deal on a product I'm more likely to remember you when I have more money to spend rather than finding out you fleeced me for profit when you could have told me about the deal. There is a fine line to being a great and respected business person. People don't like to frequent places where they think they have been taken advantage of.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:56 AM   #553
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What's up with that comment?? I see tons of blogs every day that are nearly 100% family oriented...telling me about little Johhny's potty training, their fab trip to Paris, etc. Why should Shelli's blog need to be different from someone else's just because she is the founder of a major corporation?

You said what I and I'm sure every one else was thinking. Just this morning I was reading 3 blogs that all had vacation pictures up and I enjoyed looking at them (great pics Suzy @ papermonkey.org... sorry about the food poisoning!). I don't think Shelli is any different than anyone else... and while I understand many of you are upset with SU I don't think personally attacking Shelli is going to solve anything.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:56 AM   #554
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I believe that your statements are actually contrary to what Shelli stated in her webinar to demonstrators last night. On the other hand, the practical part of me also says that what we tell one or two people in a personal email or in person will NEVER come to the attention of SU and therefore will not rise to the level of a violation. In addition, I truly believe that if a demonstrator, int he opinion of SU violates the new policy, SU will point out the violation, explain how the action is a violation, and essentially give the demonstrator a warning.
The webinar may have stated the intent but the black & white that was last posted here (obviously it could have been updated) says otherwise. If their intent is to not control your personal communication only your business ones then this needs to be re-written and not assumed or you WILL be in breach of your contract.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:57 AM   #555
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I believe that your statements are actually contrary to what Shelli stated in her webinar to demonstrators last night. On the other hand, the practical part of me also says that what we tell one or two people in a personal email or in person will NEVER come to the attention of SU and therefore will not rise to the level of a violation. In addition, I truly believe that if a demonstrator, int he opinion of SU violates the new policy, SU will point out the violation, explain how the action is a violation, and essentially give the demonstrator a warning.
They said that email is considered "other online space" and since we cannot promote competing companies, I don't think what I said was incorrect.


If I sign the IDA as it is now, I could not in good conscience tell someone in an email about a great deal or that other place. IMO, that is a willful violation of the IDA and it would weigh on my conscience.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:58 AM   #556
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Wow, you would love my demo. Shipping is ALWAYS FREE. In addition, when we used to get stamps that needed to be cut and mounted, she would do that for us also before dropping by with our orders. She is totally the coolest.
Wow!!! Now THAT is customer service!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:58 AM   #557
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The webinar may have stated the intent but the black & white that was last posted here (obviously it could have been updated) says otherwise. If their intent is to not control your personal communication only your business ones then this needs to be re-written and not assumed or you WILL be in breach of your contract.

Thank you!

That is exactly my point!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:59 AM   #558
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I'll go out on a limb here....and agree. I just think of all the samples on those boards at convention. And all the swaps people bring. Why oh why doesn't SU turn those into the most extensive SU-only gallery in the modern world...???? They have the resources and the technology...

Oh wait, then what's the point of all the demos going to convention then...? hmmm...

The consumer has changed, and in a short period of time. Most of us see it, want it, want it now, not 2 weeks from now...and we don't want to have to spend 2 or 3 hours at a party/workshop/whatever just to place an obligatory order. IMO, the home party is really going the way of the land line phone..it just isn't necessary anymore for a large segment of the population. SU should do it better than the other guys and approach things differently, they were pioneers in this industry. As it is, they are just alienating their best customers...the demos, who have put their hearts into everything they do.

I vote on principle, and I choose my purchases the same way. I will never purchase another item of SU again. No need to. There's gobs of other stuff out there...so if anyone wants to make me an offer on my inks, reinkers, cardstock, and a whole bunch of stamp sets, you know where to find me...
You know what Chris? We think alike and would get along well. So I participated in the webinar last night to hear Shelly basically ask us to drink the kool-aid.. but I'm not buying it. I'm a saavy business woman that can see an agreement that is so subject to interpretation, and so broad that you could drive a truck through it.. Why would I want to continue as a SU Demo promoting a company that wants to control the content of my personal blog? They don't pay for my internet connection, didn't provide any assistance in the set-up... and damn it.. I'll link it anywhere I want and post anything I want. How dare they insult our intelligence and basic freedoms??

SU's biggest mistake is not sticking to their primary products.. they branched out into home decor, now build-a-bear (which is an insult and hideous in my opinion) and then jewelry... Stick with the original business model and make it SOOO damn good that everyone has to have it. Has anyone gotten a huge box from SU with five items inside that could have been shipped in a smaller package? What a waste... They need to work on some efficiencies and process improvement.. i.e. clean up their own house at Riverton first. They are the ones that need some fresh air in their design teams... then there's no way they would have to worry about competition.

If our blogs link to other areas where items can be purchased... then the reserve is true also... But I guess that simple concept is uncomprehendable.

By the way Chris.. I've become a follower on your blog.. let's stay in touch. Thanks for listening.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:07 AM   #559
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You are so correct, this is opinion time, and it is great that we all have the freedom of speech to share our opinions.

But I do think you need to get your "knowledge" straight before you voice your opinion. In regards to the 7% tax on the shipping, THAT is your STATE'S law, not SU. I live in Washington state and we have always had to pay sales tax on the shipping.

Stampin'Up! by NJ state law "HAS" to charge you that tax. You said yourself it is a sales tax, and only your state has the authority to charge that. Your state is figuring that shipping is something that is being sold to you so you need to pay the sales tax on it.

If SU wanted to make money by charging tax, (which is impossible for them to do) then they would charge ALL states tax on the shipping. They would not just pick NJ. Again, you need to vent that problem to your state, not to SU who is only doing what they are told they have to do.

In regards to "freedom of Speech, they never said we could not talk about or not use other products, they said they did not want us "REFERRING where these other products could be found by giving link and info such as price, item # etc on our websites and blogs and other internet communications.

For those of you who insist on interpreting my post in their own way, let me repeat:

I KNOW the the 7% sales tax on the 10% shipping is a legal thing!
I KNOW that SU! is NOT keeping the money!
I KNOW that money is being sent to the proper source!
I KNOW that SU! did not decide to charge NJ residents that extra 7% in order to make a liitle bit more money!
I KNOW that they are following the NJ LAW!

GET MY KNOWLEDGE STRAIGHT???? I AM NOT STUPID!!!!! ALL I am saying is that the last 7% they LEGALLY had to charge me was what put their products out of reach for me! There comes a breaking point for everyone. And for me, THAT was it! I can no longer afford them and there is nothing in their catalogs that interest me now anyway! Their style has changed.

AND now I am UNSUBSCRIBING to THIS THREAD!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:07 AM   #560
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And to build on that from the potential customer's POV (point of view, nothing to do with anyone's son) if you are a demo and pointed me to a great deal on a product I'm more likely to remember you when I have more money to spend rather than finding out you fleeced me for profit when you could have told me about the deal. There is a fine line to being a great and respected business person. People don't like to frequent places where they think they have been taken advantage of.
Heck, I'm always willing to tell a customer/frined/relative about a deal on something that SU does not sell. However, I would be shooting myself in the foot if I went out of my way and braodcast to everyone that you can get the same item cheaper at the ABC store, especially in a workshop setting where my hostess's free goodies is dependent upon the level of sales at her workshop. On the other hand, if I am asked a direct question, such as can't I get X cheap at Y? I give them a straightforward and honest answer (assuming that I know the answer ) In addition, I would venture a guess that most, if not all of my customers know that I only use SU envelopes for individual cards (especially hand delivered birthday cards) because I truly believe that the SU are such a nice quality, but that when I'm mailing a bunch of cards, such as my annual Christmas cards, I almost always use the cheap envelopes that I get on sale at Staples.

Even though I signed the new IDA withSU, these same practices will continue and after listing to the webinar with Shelli last night I do not believe that they would object to this course of conduct.

However, as I have said in other threads, what is good for me and my business, may not be good and/or acceptable to others. Each current demonstrator (and in the future each potential new demonstrator) should read the new IDA, read the FAQ, listen to the webinars, call SU for clarification if they are sure of how a clause is interpreted and ultimately make a decison that is best for them and their situation. Being a SU demonstrator (like being a Longeberger, CM, etc) isn't for everyone and not everyone is willing to live with the terms and conditions of the new IDA.
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