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Old 09-02-2009, 03:24 PM   #481
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I am one that even with the revisions they posted today will still be quitting SU.
I do NOT think it is fair that if I post a card in the Gallery useing SU cardstock and lets say GINAK You Know Your Old When stamp set - I would have to list the product like this -

SU MELLOW MOSS CARDSTOCK

OLD MANY STAMPSET (ginak one as I could not list the word Ginak )

As demos are NOT allowed to list the other companies. Heck If someone asks me where I bought a box to alter I cannot say MICHAELS- I would have to say A BIG BOX STORE!!!

This is going way to far. It slike they want only their name known and to heck with all the other companies. They do not want to hear any other company names at all and to me this is all wrong.
Also how some PAY OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET for their personal blogs and now SU is telling them what they cannot post?
Same with Faceboook,My space, Twitter - those have nothing to do with SU but yet we are being told what can and cannot be listed and linked.

My sister is a CTMH demo and by SU new rules we CANNOT talk or link each other to blogs/facebook/twitter/my space
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:25 PM   #482
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Actaully Many Demo Support people at SU do NOT like SCS. Demos talk and They do not like that.
Example - When a demo gets a possible defective item - other demos will encourage her to call DS for a replacement -
EXAMPLE - when our Real Red pads started going bad we talked on SCS and everyone was calling about the defect and the did not like that we knew many other demos and customer swere having the same issues
Mel, did someone actually tell you this?
I have spoken with several ds gals who love SCS. Also, we actually have a demo support gal who is also a demo and quite often frequents our discussions on the demo forum. I have never heard her say a negative word about our discussions.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:32 PM   #483
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Wow! my head is spinning!
I'm soooo confused on what you can and can not do!
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:36 PM   #484
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Mel, did someone actually tell you this?
I have spoken with several ds gals who love SCS. Also, we actually have a demo support gal who is also a demo and quite often frequents our discussions on the demo forum. I have never heard her say a negative word about our discussions.
YES! When I called on my Taken With Teal pad last month I also mentioned that many other demos are having the same issue. She asked how I would know that and I told by thread I started on SCS - She said they really wish demos would not post problems on SCS as they start to get to many phone calls for replacements and other things when many of them are untrue issues to begin with.
Another demo called about the same TWT pad issue and a DS person said something to her about SCS (I do not want to post it publically here as she emailed this to me in private)
Other demos that have called in also had the DS make remarks about SCS.
There are SOME DS that are absolutely wonderful people and everytime I had to call I wish I had gotten one of them. I know the demo you are talking about and yes she is very nice.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:41 PM   #485
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I am one that even with the revisions they posted today will still be quitting SU.
I do NOT think it is fair that if I post a card in the Gallery useing SU cardstock and lets say GINAK You Know Your Old When stamp set - I would have to list the product like this -

SU MELLOW MOSS CARDSTOCK

OLD MANY STAMPSET (ginak one)

As demos are NOT allowed to list the other companies. Heck If someone asks me where I bought a box to alter I cannot say MICHAELS- I would have to say A BIG BOX STORE!!!

This is going way to far. It slike they want only their name known and to heck with all the other companies. They do not want to hear any other company names at all and to me this is all wrong.
Also how some PAY OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET for their personal blogs and now SU is telling them what they cannot post?
Same with Faceboook,My space, Twitter - those have nothing to do with SU but yet we are being told what can and cannot be listed and linked.

My sister is a CTMH demo and by SU new rules we CANNOT talk or link each other to blogs/facebook/twitter/my space
I will be sad to see you go Mel............
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:42 PM   #486
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I'm a hobby demo and don't hve a blog, so for now the new agreement doesn't affect me, yet. Also, I have more non-SU products than SU and it will always be this way for me because there is too many great products on the market to limit myself to one company.

In my mind there is a pretty big differnce between the needs of a hobby demo and a demo running a "real" business. If I was running as a buisness and had a blog, I wouldn't have ads for other companies and more than likely would not list other products in my blog. It would be SUO.

As a hobby demo, that makes very little income from SU, I would want to be able to put whatever I want on my blog. But, then why should SU give me the same discount for putting in little effort. I know you make more the more you sell so this benefit is already in effect.

I think SU is going to spend a lot of time and effort enforcing this new rule. I wonder if it will be worth it?

OK, don't blast me for this next statement. I love SCS and wouldn't greatly miss it if was not available, but SCS is not the end all be all of stamping. Of the 50 or stampers that I know, only 2 of us come to SCS and I'm the only one who uses it daily. If SCS were to disappear, it might hurt SU a bit, but SU wouldn't close it's doors. I also can see where the information that is passed along could be a pain to SU. But that is the world we have now, instant information, be it wrong or right. It makes it hard for SU to hide any problems. They just need to accept it, like it or not.

One last thought, I see the digital design product a flash in the pan. I don't see tons of sales because for the purists who love rubber, a digitial product is never going to take the place of rubber. I think the technical support is going to cause them problems, keeping up with new operating systems (windows, vista, etc) will be a nightmare. They are not a software company and branching out into an area is not their expertise is a mistake and now they have to make a policy change to support this new direction, hmmm, makes me wonder where is SU headed? Will this be the downfall of a SU?
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:52 PM   #487
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Exactly. Instead of doing it better than the other guy, they are adding restrictions to demonstrators' creative business avenues. I have never understood why SU has not upgraded the home website to have a gallery as good as splitcoast. My upline used to tell new customers worried about coming up with ideas to become a demonstrator to have access to the demonstrator idea gallery. Yeah, and see what, maybe three cards using a specific stamp set, as opposed to five hundred on SCS? Really? Don't take demonstrators away from SCS; do it better than SCS. Don't say I can't purchase monoadhesive from someone else; make monoadhesive available at a better price.
I'll go out on a limb here....and agree. I just think of all the samples on those boards at convention. And all the swaps people bring. Why oh why doesn't SU turn those into the most extensive SU-only gallery in the modern world...???? They have the resources and the technology...

Oh wait, then what's the point of all the demos going to convention then...? hmmm...

The consumer has changed, and in a short period of time. Most of us see it, want it, want it now, not 2 weeks from now...and we don't want to have to spend 2 or 3 hours at a party/workshop/whatever just to place an obligatory order. IMO, the home party is really going the way of the land line phone..it just isn't necessary anymore for a large segment of the population. SU should do it better than the other guys and approach things differently, they were pioneers in this industry. As it is, they are just alienating their best customers...the demos, who have put their hearts into everything they do.

I vote on principle, and I choose my purchases the same way. I will never purchase another item of SU again. No need to. There's gobs of other stuff out there...so if anyone wants to make me an offer on my inks, reinkers, cardstock, and a whole bunch of stamp sets, you know where to find me...
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:06 PM   #488
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[/COLOR]


However, there are some guidelines now associated with activity using any electronic media. Consider the web site or online community you choose to participate in. Does it actively promote or market other craft companies? Does it provide information on products or catalogs for other stamping, scrapbooking, or home decorating products or companies? If you directed your customers to the web site, would they have the opportunity to learn about and purchase similar products from other companies, and not from you? If the answer is yes, then under the new IDA guidelines, you should refrain from linking to the site in your other personal electronic communications, regardless of your personal activity on that forum or web site. We understand that this may be difficult for some, but hope you understand the impact on your customers when you direct them to a location where their attention is diverted from you and the products you have to offer. We are currently exploring ways to provide more of an open community and sharing environment to our demonstrators, and will keep you updated on any new developments.
(I'm only quoting Minders out of convenience, not to single her out)
The Red highlighted part of this answer from SU is what really bothers me...

So say I'm a demo and was inspired by some project I saw on SCS or other site such as SCS....

That project is incorporated into my next workshop.

Everyone loves it, and starts praising me for my extensive level of creativity.

Later, a guest posts on my blog or facebook page how she had such a good time the other day and was so inspired by my ideas...

Do I graciously say "thank you, but the credit should go to susie stamper from anytown, usa, and I saw her work on xyz.com. She's an incredible inspiration to me" (which is what the polite, professional, Christian thing to do, but could cost me my Demo-ship under the new terms)

OR

Do I accept the praise and take susie stamper's ideas as my own and keep my 'job'.?
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:10 PM   #489
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I see what you're saying. And I guess that's just the way it is. I suppose the advisory board can't predict everything. Do you think it would make a difference if they said up front that, for example, these changes to the IDA are being presented to you for feedback, will be evaluated, and changes may be necessary? Or is that too wimpy? Obviously a lot of demos don't assume it's up for negotiation. It looked like it came down as an edict and that was that.

It all has just run its natural course, and I don't think it's bad that people talked about it here. We can agree to disagree about that.

(P.S. Many times in other threads I've told myself that I'm not posting again, but I usually do ... even though I probably delete more than I ever post. I'm really glad you kept writing though.)
I do think that it would have made a difference. Yes, there probably would have been as many people up in arms over it ~ but if they knew that their feedback was appreciated & could/would be evaluated. If they'd come out to say ~ these are the new regulations to stay competitive ~ please get back to us with any concerns or comments by such & such date. IMO, it was worded so strongly yesterday ~ almost written in stone ~ you will agree or you will be de-demo'd.... too bad if you are in the middle of a club ~ no care for your customers at all... <--- not sure that has been addressed ~ hopefully SU will allow those demos who are going to quit ~ but have a club, to finish up the club before quitting ~ without having to alter their blogs, fb, twitters, etc...
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:18 PM   #490
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I will be sad to see you go Mel............
Thank you!!! But you can always find me on this side after Sept 30th - SCS I will never give up!
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:31 PM   #491
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I think it's pretty sad if they're relying on other SU! demos to police their friends!! One would have to be rather "hateful" to do something like that!
It is sad. And it's been going on for years...it's not hatefulness, its envy and jealousy.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:43 PM   #492
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I was an occasional SU customer for years and happen to find SCS through a customer of an SU demo. SCS totally changed my life. I saw such amazing talent. SCS inspired me. I got hooked on stamping all over again. And as I result purchased more SU products. Eventually, I signed up as a demo (hobby only). Through SCS I discovered such great companies as Gina K, Unity, MFT, and Flourishes among others. I also discovered the CB, Nesties, Dew Drops, Stickles and Copics along with tons of other ‘had to have’ goodies. Thanks to SCS I also discovered amazing tutorials, great forums, tips and tricks I never would have discovered otherwise.

Eventually I started my own personal blog. My blog. Not an SU DBWS – a personal blog. I do not mention on my blog that I am an SU demo And my blog includes creations made with the products of my choice. I do take issue with SU trying to control what I post and how I post on my blog. My blog is mine and this type of control really bothers me. If they were imposing these restriction on an SU Demo Web Site that would be fine, but on a personal blog is a different story.

Gina K has a tutorial on her blog about extending the SU Word Window punch. Gina K also sells a competing product. (Products I happen to think are wonderful!) I have linked to her tutorial more than once because it shows my readers another wonderful way to use the SU punch. But I can’t do that anymore. And that upsets me – Just because someone is the competition does not mean that they are the bad guys. Sometimes competitors use your product and come up with new and better ways to use the product to make it even more appealing.

On the other side of this same issue. I was recently in one of my local ‘big box’ stores. A customer was talking to the cashier about embossing – I wasn’t really paying attention to the conversation, but couldn’t help overhearing it. The customer was talking about speckles when she embossed. The big box cashier told the customer about SU’s embossing buddy. She admitted that she didn’t know what it was called, and admitted their store did not carry this neat tool, but that Stampin Up did. The cashier even told this customer how to find a local demo on the SU website. I think it is wonderful that this cashier honestly admitted that her store could not provide what the customer needed and offered a solution to this customer’s problem.

Point being – sometimes we just have to acknowledge that the competition is going to send us business and sometimes they are going to get some of our business. It’s all about sharing our love of this addiction.

With SU!’s new requirements and restrictions, I will be rethinking my relationship with SU. I became a hobby demo mostly for the discount and with the possibility of taking it to the next level down the road. Now I am not so sure I want to limit myself to one company when there are so many great companies and products out there that enhance and compliment one other so beautifully.
I agree with what you are saying about sharing.....but there is one difference in regards to your big box business story. That sales clerk was not putting the advice about SU and the embossing buddy out there on the big wide web (where half the world is at now)
I really don't think that if you were having a function in your own home and someone asked you where to find a plain ole box to alter, that "anyone", SU included is going to get all in a twist over it. This is not SU's concern. Their concern is talking about products and adding links on the WEB where, like I said, half or maybe more of the world is at, to find and buy these products.

If this sales clerk you were speaking of got on the web and says, "hey, I am a Micheal's employee, but I wanted to let you know that SU carries this unique product called the embossing buddie", don't you think that Michaels would just be a tad bit upset. Ya, I think they would have plenty to say.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:48 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by StampinChrissylea View Post
(I'm only quoting Minders out of convenience, not to single her out)
The Red highlighted part of this answer from SU is what really bothers me...

So say I'm a demo and was inspired by some project I saw on SCS or other site such as SCS....

That project is incorporated into my next workshop.

Everyone loves it, and starts praising me for my extensive level of creativity.

Later, a guest posts on my blog or facebook page how she had such a good time the other day and was so inspired by my ideas...

Do I graciously say "thank you, but the credit should go to susie stamper from anytown, usa, and I saw her work on xyz.com. She's an incredible inspiration to me" (which is what the polite, professional, Christian thing to do, but could cost me my Demo-ship under the new terms)

OR

Do I accept the praise and take susie stamper's ideas as my own and keep my 'job'.?
I mentioned this earlier too - I think it is a legitmate practical concern regarding the contract.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:49 PM   #494
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My thoughts are confirmed... SU is a cult!!! LOL There are SOOO many different companies and product out there, it's nearly impossible to use ONLY one company's products and why would you want to??? I am a Consultant for CTMH and do like some SU stuff, I have a lot actually. We have our own BB and if we put any artwork on there, it has to be *mostly* our product. I get that as it's meant to inspire fellow conultants. I can also understand for a gathering only using my own product 'cause yeah, that's what I'm trying to sell BUT for personal use, if I want to use something else, I can and I do!!! Who says you have to use one company's "matching" products? So many times they're so similar that the paper from one company looks good with a stamp set from another. That's the whole part of CREATIVITY!!! Unfortunately, we all look for a deal and SU (I feel) is farely expensive plus you get the 10% shipping. I agree with what someone else said about buying certain things like the crop-o-dile at a "big box" store with a coupon. I would never promote selling something that is the exact same item with a different label on it for more money. That applies to my own stuff as well. I'd rather people spend their money on exclusive items like our stamps Anywho! I just think it's totally wrong to tell people they can't link to their friends blogs and stuff who might use other product. It doesn't mean that I'm trying to get someone to purchase other products. We can't appreciate our fellow stampers' artwork? God forbid someone like or buy something that isn't SU! Maybe they once dominated the industry but they don't anymore. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures!
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:58 PM   #495
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Demos should refrain from linking sites such as this regardless of their personal activity at the site.
That truly is a shame. When I very first got into stamping several years ago, I was pointed to this site for inspiration. Had it not been for SCS, my relationship with SU would have faded. As much as I love my demo, her camps only give me a couple of examples of how to use a stamp, embellishment, punch, you name it. I can come here and get loads of inspiration. To not steer your customers here is an absolute disservice. As far as I am aware, SU doesn't have a gallery customers can go for inspiration. I could be wrong.. But let's say I am wrong, I don't know about it, and neither do any of my stamping friends. SCS is many people's "go to" place for inspiration and virtually hanging out with stamping buddies from all over.

Like was said before.. people aren't as naive to think they can't get adhesive (for example) at a better price elsewhere. Because it's mentioned in a blog that you use Duck tape from Walmart isn't going to prevent people from buying the overpriced, inferior Tombow from SU. The fact that it's overpriced and inferior is what's going to keep people from buying it. ---- (I am not bashing SU products. We all know that Tombow isn't exclusive to SU.)
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:12 PM   #496
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Okay can someone answer dumb question, if Deoms can't but things on there blogs? where is next better hung out place for ideals other than scs? and that is safe. I come becuse it safe here I feel safe here. And blog on scs For ideals but safe comeforetable..... So what am I do now? And where go beside scs. if not blogs from scs poeple meaning Deoms and everyone?

Any thoughts?????? hotwheels very sad
Don't be sad hotwheels . . You are still safe here and all is well on SCS!! You can still go to blogs and come here to get ideas ~ you don't have to worry about going anywhere else!! I hope lots of demos still come here to share with everyone else, too. Demos have to follow stricter rules with their blogs but nothing should change for us here on SCS . Relax and have fun just like always!!
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:37 PM   #497
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My thoughts are confirmed... SU is a cult!!! LOL .........!
HA! I thought only husband said that LOL!!
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:40 PM   #498
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HAHA Nope!!! I once did a CTMH party for a CM demo and she reamed me for using bumpy stuff in my books. Some people are just die hards for their own product. I don't discrimate
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #499
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In post #431, today, Belinda King was kind enough to copy changes to the new ID which were made today, 9/2. I think by some of the recent comments, it bears repeating:

"Q: On my personal blog, I have links to my friends' personal blogs and web sites. Some of them sell competing product. Do I need to remove these links?

A: No and yes. On your web site, blog, or other online space, the policy is that you may not post links to competitive companies' web sites, or to locations where a customer could purchase competing products. As you evaluate the links that you provide, the only restrictions would be that the link should not a) direct to the company web site of a directly competing company (retail, online retail, or direct sales), or b) direct to the web site or blog of a representative for competitive products where the customer may purchase from directly. For example, if you link to a friend's site and customers can purchase products directly from your friend on that site, you need to remove the link to that site. If they cannot purchase products directly from your friend's site, you do not need to remove the link. Updated 9/2/09.

Q: I regularly participate in online forums relating to the craft industry, and maintain a gallery of my artwork on one of these forums. With the new IDA, is this activity still allowed?

A: Yes. Participating in forums and posting your projects for your fellow crafters can be an important method of inspiration and recognition. It's important to note that the new IDA does not prohibit this kind of activity. You may link to any blog or forum that highlights the crafting industry in general, regardless of the products highlighted or advertised. You may want to consider, however, where you are sending your customers, and the kinds of advertising they're likely to encounter when you make your decision on what kinds of links you recommend that your customers follow.

We are currently exploring ways to provide more of an open community and sharing environment, as well as opportunities for artistic recognition for our many talented demonstrators. We will keep you updated on any new developments. Updated 9/2/09."

Hope this updates some people who may have missed it. [highlights are added by me]
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:54 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by pollybear View Post
......The public has seen their desperation and that alone will cause people to steer away from the product or making the great investment to be a demo. Who knows how close they are to being run out of the business when they are clearly showing how scared they are at this point. They have shown us who they are and the state they are in and all the retractions in the world won't make us forget that their bottom line is such that they fear a competitive market be known to stampers. They have made the loyal and faithful aware of how shaky they are in these economic times. ........ I see that this company is in such an anxious state. I had no idea it was this bad.
You could be absolutely right, but so far I don't see it that way. One of the demos mentioned earlier that they are maybe circling the wagons so they can come out stronger in the end and not be as damaged by the current economic climate. I can see where some people would get the initial impression that it's panic, but when the going gets tough, sometimes you just want to hunker down and protect what you have. I'm just not sure this was the best way to protect themselves but even if it was a smart tactic ~ it was poorly executed. Personally, I'd love to see them stay strong - wisely. They know that they can't compete in everything. They just need to know their market and not be flummoxed by competition but use it to make SU better.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:02 PM   #501
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Wow. SU seems to be following the national trend - if there's a problem restrict personal freedom and over regulate it to death. Instead, why not step up creativity, address pricing and products if necessary and really compete with the other companies they feel are a threat and give demos freedom to develop their own business as they see fit? There are demos (probably mostly hobby demos) that have other goals than just making the big bucks. I have to question whether SU no longer wants to support those kinds of a demos. This restricting of personal online activities is shocking to me.
AMEN!!! I don't buy SU stamps because I refuse to pay for wood blocks that I will not be using. Why don't they offer their customers the choice of mounted/unmounted, and price the stamps accordingly?
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:10 PM   #502
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I have been following this thread and find the reactions of demos and non demos very interesting. I am not a demo, nor do I use SU products. I do however, work and teach at my lss and spoke to the owner about this issue today. You see, I do use products (for personal use) that she does not sell in her store. I have a blog and mention/link to those companies regularly. She has no problem with that and in fact paid for my Copic Certification so that I could properly teach the markers in her store. By having my Copic Certification on her wall and teaching about them, her sales have increased. She said today that she would never tell me I can't teach Copic markers anywhere else or become a member of a design team (maybe someday). She supports my dreams to travel and teach. My dreams that are now coming true. I thank her for that!

Today, she even mentioned in her newsletter that I will be traveling up north to teach at another store (she even mentioned the store name). BTW, my lss has been in business nearly 15 years with no plan to slow down any time soon and we are in a small rural area.

Basically, what I am trying to say is I think there is room for all companies in the big sandbox of life and find it quite sad that many demos are struggling with the choices they will have to make. My heart is sad for them.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:13 PM   #503
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YES! When I called on my Taken With Teal pad last month I also mentioned that many other demos are having the same issue. She asked how I would know that and I told by thread I started on SCS - She said they really wish demos would not post problems on SCS as they start to get to many phone calls for replacements and other things when many of them are untrue issues to begin with.
Another demo called about the same TWT pad issue and a DS person said something to her about SCS (I do not want to post it publically here as she emailed this to me in private)
Other demos that have called in also had the DS make remarks about SCS.
There are SOME DS that are absolutely wonderful people and everytime I had to call I wish I had gotten one of them. I know the demo you are talking about and yes she is very nice.

I'm curious Mel - does this mean that big name stampers like you and others who have posted on the thread - does this mean that if you have a card published in a magazine that uses say - SU paper, but uses another companies stamping image - can you no longer do that? Mix SU products with none SU products on a published card? Just curious on that one. I don't blame you a bit for cancelling your SU demo .
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:16 PM   #504
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For my part - if it came to Split Coast Stamper vs SU - I'd never purchase another SU item but I would come to Split Coast. There are a lot of other companies beside SU. I feel badly for the demo's.

I'm sure Daven is on top of this.

It's ironic that I had never purchased SU stuff until coming to Split Coast. Good luck Stampin Up. Ridiculous.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:20 PM   #505
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AMEN!!! I don't buy SU stamps because I refuse to pay for wood blocks that I will not be using. Why don't they offer their customers the choice of mounted/unmounted, and price the stamps accordingly?
I haven't understood the need to keep the wood either. I know they would have to rework their distribution line however, the blocks could still be sent in the clamshells and the index sheet/stickers/rubber can be in a separate bag. Just tell people that they have to order A&B to get the blocks and charge separately for them. It would also complicate their inventory as they would have to "guess" how many they would need compared to how much bare rubber.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:22 PM   #506
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Default Changes for SU Demos: the bottom line

I have read the entire thread, all 13 or 14 pages of comments concerning the new changes to the IDA that SU has required it's demos sign by Sept 30. I am a new hobby demo, so this does (to a small degree affect me). My observations are relatively simple. There are definitely several separate camps out there: 1. I LOVE SU AND NOTHING ANYONE SAYS WILL EVER CHANGE MY MIND; 2. BASH SU AND EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR
and then 3. the majority of us in the middle. Kind of like, hmmm, real life...

My only real thoughts on the subject are that this is a huge, HUGE mistake on SUs part. IMO they should have opened their market doors went to CHA instead of trying to remain in direct competition with the entire remainder of the market. Seriously, look at the size of PTI and how large a draw they have. Why? because they are actively entering the market AS IT CHANGES. I am sure they have rules/regulations too. but too try to regulate what a "population" of people can have on their blogs stinks of regulation and oversight. and all of the clarification in the world cannot erase what has been said. What did our grandmother's teach us? First impressions?

So, I and so many others will be giving this a good deal of thought over the next couple of days. (and quite frankly that annoys me too--I became a hobby demo to have fun, not to add stress to my life--add one more to the con list)

thanks for 'listening'
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:31 PM   #507
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I have a simple question, why does it seem that many think that the new policy means that SU wants demonstrators to be SU only! I don't get that at all. They are not saying that we need to exclusively SU, nor are they saying we can show projects made with other non-SU products. What they are trying to curb/stop are internet postings by demonstrators that actively steer potential customers to the competition by linking to the competitor's website. I guess I still just don't see the problem/evils/etc in this change.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:34 PM   #508
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I am not a demo. But I am a customer that used to spend over the demo hobby limits on SU products each year. But I honestly hardly buy from SU at all anymore. I am perplexed by hearing demos say that "SU really listens" when many customers say over and over again for years:
1. They'd like to have the option to purchase unmounted stamps (without wood blocks) at a lower price
2. The prices are way too high--especially with the high shipping charges.

And why can't we discuss the business practices of a company that is vying for our dollars on an open forum? I understand non-compete agreements as a condition of employment as I've had jobs that required them, but I do think SU's policy was initially too restrictive. I'm not sure on the revised version as it still seems a little unclear. When people are asking for clarification, the answer probably shouldn't start with "Yes and No." In many ways, this feels like trying to close the barn door after the cows are already out...

It seems like the direct sales business model is somewhat destined to struggle in a price-sensitive marketplace...
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:38 PM   #509
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If I were a demo, my main problem with all this (even after the changes) would be that SU! insists on controlling my entire web presence. If I were a demo, and had a personal blog - not a SU! blog with projects and order links, a personal blog where i talked about what my family was up to and shared recipes for macaroni and cheese and never mentioned by SU! business - SU! says I cannot post a link on that PERSONAL blog to my imaginary sister's blog where she also posts items made with TAC stamps and links to her TAC sales website. I also (on that personal blog) cannot allow advertising posts because there might be something for a company that is in competition with SU!

And even for those of you who don't think this affects you because you don't have a blog or website - the agreement we've seen posted states that you also cannot advertise or link in ANY online communication. That means Facebook, Twitter, e-mail. And the idea that SU! won't even need to hire extra people to police this because demos will rat each other out is so kindergarten. (I know it happens already; doesn't make it any more grown up)

I can understand to a degree why SU! felt a need to exert some control on demo's blogs. I've been on blogs where it seems they're a demo or design team member for a different company every third day - and sometimes for 2 companies on the same day. To my mind, that's not fair to any of the companies you represent. However, to demand this kind of control over their demos' entire online presence is excessive.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:46 PM   #510
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If I were a demo, my main problem with all this (even after the changes) would be that SU! insists on controlling my entire web presence. If I were a demo, and had a personal blog - not a SU! blog with projects and order links, a personal blog where i talked about what my family was up to and shared recipes for macaroni and cheese and never mentioned by SU! business - SU! says I cannot post a link on that PERSONAL blog to my imaginary sister's blog where she also posts items made with TAC stamps and links to her TAC sales website. I also (on that personal blog) cannot allow advertising posts because there might be something for a company that is in competition with SU!

And even for those of you who don't think this affects you because you don't have a blog or website - the agreement we've seen posted states that you also cannot advertise or link in ANY online communication. That means Facebook, Twitter, e-mail. And the idea that SU! won't even need to hire extra people to police this because demos will rat each other out is so kindergarten. (I know it happens already; doesn't make it any more grown up)

I can understand to a degree why SU! felt a need to exert some control on demo's blogs. I've been on blogs where it seems they're a demo or design team member for a different company every third day - and sometimes for 2 companies on the same day. To my mind, that's not fair to any of the companies you represent. However, to demand this kind of control over their demos' entire online presence is excessive.
Your post makes me shake my head. Unfortunately, it's late and my brain is done for the night.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:10 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by GoMarquette View Post
I am not a demo. But I am a customer that used to spend over the demo hobby limits on SU products each year. But I honestly hardly buy from SU at all anymore. I am perplexed by hearing demos say that "SU really listens" when many customers say over and over again for years:
1. They'd like to have the option to purchase unmounted stamps (without wood blocks) at a lower price
2. The prices are way too high--especially with the high shipping charges.

And why can't we discuss the business practices of a company that is vying for our dollars on an open forum? I understand non-compete agreements as a condition of employment as I've had jobs that required them, but I do think SU's policy was initially too restrictive. I'm not sure on the revised version as it still seems a little unclear. When people are asking for clarification, the answer probably shouldn't start with "Yes and No." In many ways, this feels like trying to close the barn door after the cows are already out...

It seems like the direct sales business model is somewhat destined to struggle in a price-sensitive marketplace...
I had thought of being a demo and now I just can't, these restrictions just don't go with my need to be the best at what I am. If a customer wants advise about anything then I would give it. I worked retail in a very propriatry industry and when you were looking for items you went to where it was not where it would be in 10 days. I also helped many people find what they wanted even if I didn't have it myself and you know what they always came back to me for my service as I went that extra mile to get them what they needed. This applies to much of this, if a customer can't get it from you then why wouldn't you help them find it and have them come back again and again as that builds repeat business...if SU wants to maintain this attidude then they will really need to make some other changes to their business practices as I for one prefer unmounted rubber, just don't have the storage and I have had to unmount all my stamps from SU. They may find that if they had more options then more would buy stamps...as a customer for me it is always price and the sets that I like in SU's catty are just one or two images never the whole set...I have been leaning a lot towards hero arts and boy have they come a long way with what they offer...imo SU should take a look at what they are doing in this techno savey days...as for shipping they could take a page from AVON...they don't charge an arm and led for shipping and they deliver in a week...I don't understand the whole shipping thing anyway when most of the time it is shipped to our demo for us to pick up and I am sure that SU uses whatever cheapest shipping to get it there and yet we pay more for shipping than they do...just nuts...
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:41 PM   #512
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Shelli would disagree. The demos built SU! in conjunction with herself.
Without customers...Shelli and the demos wouldn't have the business they do.
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:56 PM   #513
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Not True! Go and read it again! It says if you participate you can't LINK to it! Not that you can't participate!!!
Although they can participate, apparently demo's can't link to SCS because it promotes other companies. But don't you think that because SCS has dedicated unbelievable amounts of net storage for SU! only galleries that it is the most widely promoted company on this forum and SHOULD be posted on demo blogs? That seems logical and fair to me.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:05 PM   #514
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I don't understand the whole shipping thing anyway when most of the time it is shipped to our demo for us to pick up and I am sure that SU uses whatever cheapest shipping to get it there and yet we pay more for shipping than they do...just nuts...
They don't use a bunch of different companies. While small order corrections may sometimes come via USPS Priority Mail, UPS is their carrier of choice -- it's funny, I always get a little warm fuzzy every time I see one of those brown trucks, because I've come to associate them with my SU! goodies!

If your order is not part of a workshop, in which case it must all be shipped to a single address, then let your demo know that you'd prefer to have it come directly to your home or that you'd like for your demo to deliver it. While I do have most orders sent to me (I like to check it over and make sure everything's in order and then include a little something extra in the bag as a thank-you gesture), I then personally deliver the merchandise to the customer. Even with workshops, I sort and bag the orders, add my thank-you card or gift, and then deliver them to the hostess for her to distribute to her friends.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:58 PM   #515
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I have to say, with so many wonderful companies out there like "PTI", "Gina K", "Unity", "Flourishes", just to name a few. SU! is just shooting themselves in the foot. Their paper can't even compare to "PTI's" and "Gina K's".

Oh, and one more thing that I was never going to mention, but now I will. How self-absorbed is Shelli's blog! It's just all about her and her family throwing money around on vacations, etc. She really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will not miss SU!
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:09 PM   #516
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[QUOTE=allee's;15036654][quote=peggy-sue;15036584]I just called SU demo support and they will be clarifying in a couple of hours on their website. This is what I was told by ds....We just can't link to other sales. Hobby demos are the meat and bones of Stampin Up. They do not want to get rid of us. Nothing changes for me because I am not on a design team or have a blog. We can all still play at SCS. We can still have a link to our dbws under our siggy.
Quote:
Quote:

It's fine for you as a SU demo to take advantage of the world-wide popularity of Splitcoaststampers to sell SU on your business web site, but don't you dare send anyone back to SCS?? I really don't see the balance in that.
Yes! I take advantage of SCS. Iwalk away everyday with something new I have learned! I am a hobby demo and my own best customer I will always let people know about SCS, which is my source for inspiration and major creative outlet. I do love SU, but I also love SCS. This is the reason I called demo support this morning.....wanting to know where the line is drawn and was assured by demo support , that basically I could not advertise or sell other products. As I said before I feel bad for the demos that are on Design Teams. I am not a one product snob. I shop all over. My friend sells CTMH, I buy from her and vis a vis, I shop at Micheals, several local scrapbooking stores etc.etc. If somebody asks where I got something, I tell them. I tell crafters all the time about SCS. The techniques, tutorials and most of all the friendships that are formed! I can see both sides of this , but I do feel some of you are being far to hard on Stampin' Up. I am sorry for Mel who had a DS discourage her from SCS, I have had lengthy conversations with one ds in particular that talked about SCS several times and in a positive light. It just depends on who you talk to. IMHO this has a LYNCH Mob feeling to it. I am probably opening a can of worms here~wondering how many of you are actually active demos. I am so grateful to SCS for all I have learned! Maybe I am being stupid here, I understand I can still refer people to SCS, just not to... ABC Stamp Company.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:30 PM   #517
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I previously sold CTMH. I buy stamping and scrapping supplies from SU, Angel, Michael, Hobby Lobby, Archivers, Stubby Stampers and every other store imaginable. I do not limit myself to acrylic stamps nor am I a wooden rubberstamp purist. I never asked my clients nor expected my clients to buy exclusively from me. They are all adults and capable of deciding the product designs that they prefer from each cattie. I would never limit my creativity to one product line. I have purchased many products as a result of the tutorials produced and exhibited at SCS, most of which promote SU products but I love products from CTMH equally. While I certainly understand that the business and the economy has had marked effects on everyone's business, it seems to me that SU is having a knee jerk reaction. People will continue to buy if the designs are fresh and products are new and exciting. They do not spend their money else where just because a demo links a product. Chances are they have bought from that demo more than once because of his or her flexibility and knowledge. Remember the Macy's idea of sending people to Gimble's if it made someone happy. People, and especially women purchase crafting supplies based on an emotion - if the design strikes a cord or the friendship of their demo not because they like SU as a company. We still are (for the time being ) a country of free enterprise - their business will not increase by expecting your demos to stop linking to other electronic communications. Many friendships have been made thru the love of a craft not the lines of a company. This is not SU bashing - I would say the same thing to any company. No one is saying they are not a great company and they have been on the cutting edge for a long time. If you can't handle the competition, then maybe you need to look at your design elements that have recently been produced. I love every person I have met here at this site and am in awe at the level of creativity that is exhibited here. As my granddaddy always says, " If you can't run with the big dogs - you better stay on the porch". I know many people must make some rather difficult decisions and my prayers go out to you.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:35 PM   #518
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After reading 13 pages of this, my strongest reaction is a definite objection to being referred to as the "uninformed public". Am I too stupid to understand the wording of this new set of rules? Too stupid to be able to figure out what they mean? Or, just not in the SU loop to be able to make a decision?

I will make my future SU buying decisions by BEING informed and this thread did a good job of informing me.

Oh- and yes, I think SU has gone way too far here.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:41 PM   #519
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I have a simple question, why does it seem that many think that the new policy means that SU wants demonstrators to be SU only! I don't get that at all. They are not saying that we need to exclusively SU, nor are they saying we can show projects made with other non-SU products. What they are trying to curb/stop are internet postings by demonstrators that actively steer potential customers to the competition by linking to the competitor's website. I guess I still just don't see the problem/evils/etc in this change.
There is no problem with the intent as you have stated it. However, in their attempt to do this SU has gone too far in my opinion - that is the problem. They don't just cover our business presence on the internet, but all internet presence. If someone was to follow what has been described in the Q&A, sending an email to you sister to let her know about a great price you got on a Martha Stewart punch at Michaels would be a violation - even if that email is sent on a personal email account with no connection to your SU business.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:13 AM   #520
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After reading 13 pages of this, my strongest reaction is a definite objection to being referred to as the "uninformed public". Am I too stupid to understand the wording of this new set of rules? Too stupid to be able to figure out what they mean? Or, just not in the SU loop to be able to make a decision?

I will make my future SU buying decisions by BEING informed and this thread did a good job of informing me.

Oh- and yes, I think SU has gone way too far here.
I completely agree! As a 'regular' person (not a demo in any way) I have the right to BE informed. I choose to come here to gather information - it might be product questions, stamping inspiration, this topic, or whatever. I may be uninformed, but I'm not an idiot!

One of the posts I read (waaaay back at the beginning!) demanded to know if I've ever been to a SU demo's blog that 'pushed' other products. Um, yeah. One of the hottest stampers around posted about the difference between the SU! pad and the Distress Ink pads - just this week! She was pointing out the difference in height (which made a huge difference in the effect she was going for). And yes, I appreciate her honesty. And yes, I would be leery of buying ANYTHING from ANYONE that treated me as a paycheck (and too stupid to know that there IS competition out there) - not as a person.

One more food for thought question. If you post something on your blog that used a non SU! item, which you did not give full information on because you're following your IDA, and I email you and ask about that *specific* thing - what then? Will you ignore me? Will you answer and break your contract? The ramifications of either scenario boggle the mind.
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