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Old 09-02-2009, 11:28 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by kitty14 View Post
I am going to put my 2 cents in here, although I have not finished reading all the posts.

I have never been a SU! demonstrator but I bought their products for about 8 years or so. The last straw for me was when they added the 7% tax on the 10% shipping and handling because I am in NJ! That means I pay the 10% for shipping and handling, 7% sales tax on that,( like a "punishment for living here , although I know it is a legal thing) and then the regular 7% NJ sales tax! That all adds up! I order from all around the USA and nobody else charges me that extra 7% on their shipping.

They are way over priced as far as I am concerned. I remember the time when so many of their sets were about $14.95! Now, even the background stamps are more than that..............
I would like to clarify something that I do know about tax and shipping charges. YOUR INDIVIDUAL STATE that you LIVE IN is the one who MANDATES how shipping is taxed or not taxed. Some states have you add your product total to shipping first then tax that entire amount. Other states have you tax product only and then add for shipping. This is not a SUP policy, but rather how your state mandates it be done. I realized this when I moved from Virginia to Indiana and saw the change and was THEN at that point was told why my state taxed shipping, in addition to the product total after inquiring about it. States do change these things more often than we think , it is just another way of raising taxes on us without us realizing it.

Granted, I am not 100% that this was your case, Kitty, I just wanted to share what I did find out at one point in my life about this same thing because at first, I too was ticked!

One thing about the shipping charge I feel is that in general it IS exageratted. Most of the time my items come in these huge unnecessary boxes filled with that brown paper that seriously is wasteful. I also noticed a couple of idea-books back how they inflate the prices of certain stamp sets that have a 'verse' or 'quote' in it that they know a person will probably pay 'any' amount for. So, they take advantage of that sometimes, too

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Old 09-02-2009, 11:29 AM   #402
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I think SU has severely underestimated the influence SCS has had on their bottom line. THey wouldn't be where they are today without SCS and other similar sites.

They're about to find out exactly how influential SCS has been, though.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:33 AM   #403
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But isn't that what their policy says? If my best friend sells CTMH she can't be my friend on facebook anymore because she posts about crops and CTMH sales and stuff in her updates....

If I was a demo and had a SU! blog, I can totally understand it, but saying I can't have friends on FB is reaching too far IMO and the fact that some of the demos on here think that isn't a big deal scares me.

I can honestly say that I am glad I didn't sign up last month because I wouldn't want to have to think about this stuff and I only have 3 posts on my blog. I just wouldn't want to deal with this stuff.

Also, as a rep for another DSA company that is non-craft related. They have restrictions on being able to sell for another DSA company and they have restrictions on what events you can post on your company sponsored website, but they have no rules or guidelines about FB, my spcace, twitter, etc. That is the only part of this I don't agree with.
I think these kind of comments are taking it to the extreme. I highly doubt SU! wants to "control" anyone and I'm sure all of these things will be addressed by the company.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:37 AM   #404
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I think SU has severely underestimed the influence SCS has on their bottom line. THey wouldn't be where they are today without SCS and other similar sites.

They're about to find out exactly how influential SCS has been, though.
Don't know about what they are "about to find out." SCS can still influence SU sales and there's no reason it shouldn't.

Because any demo who has previously linked or suggested SCS to customers has already introduced them to the site. And as long as demos still choose to participate here, and demos and customers upload to SCS, then SU will still benefit from SCS.

Most demos also have other contact with their customers. They can refer people personally to SCS, too.

I think SU's point is that it would be in the best interest of their business to not do so.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:41 AM   #405
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I just called SU demo support and they will be clarifying in a couple of hours on their website. This is what I was told by ds....We just can't link to other sales. Hobby demos are the meat and bones of Stampin Up. They do not want to get rid of us. Nothing changes for me because I am not on a design team or have a blog. We can all still play at SCS. We can still have a link to our dbws under our siggy.

So what I gather is SCS is like being in the food court at the mall.... you can still choose what you want. We are only restricted to linking or selling other products. I feel bad for the dt members. I also feel bad for those fabulous demo support people that have to field all of our questions. I will remain a loyal demo and a loyal SCSer!
Oooohhh..... I hope you are right!!!!! I do understand the need for SU to regulate to some extent its demos activities on the internet however what I have read so far has been way to restrictive. It left me with an ucky feeling about the company as I read the no linking, facebook, twitter stuff. I mean really, most things on the internet really are only a few clicks away so its just ridiculous to think SU can isolate their internet exposure as much as has been suggested by some.

Also, the food court analogy is GREAT!!!! The company should be happy to have such a prime spot on a site like SCS... which I do not believe they support financially at all. Papercrafters from all over come here, browse lots of things, and at least in my case still buy plenty of SU. I would hate to see this site suffer to loss of soooo many demos or worse for SU... for them to lose so many talented SCS demos!!!!
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:41 AM   #406
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me again... Sorry!! My computer is doing these double posts .
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #407
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I have never been a SU! demonstrator but I bought their products for about 8 years or so. The last straw for me was when they added the 7% tax on the 10% shipping and handling because I am in NJ! That means I pay the 10% for shipping and handling, 7% sales tax on that,( like a "punishment for living here , although I know it is a legal thing) and then the regular 7% NJ sales tax! That all adds up! I order from all around the USA and nobody else charges me that extra 7% on their shipping.

They are cutting off their nose to spite their face, I think. It would serve them right if these demonstrators all left SU!
Like someone else said, "Whatever happened to freedom of speech?"
Does SU! think they are "Big Brother" or something?

Don't "crucify" me! This is "OPINION TIME!" RIGHT?
the system double posted me.......see below

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Old 09-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #408
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Don't know about what they are "about to find out." SCS can still influence SU sales and there's no reason it shouldn't.

Because any demo who has previously linked or suggested SCS to customers has already introduced them to the site. And as long as demos still choose to participate here, and demos and customers upload to SCS, then SU will still benefit from SCS.

Most demos also have other contact with their customers. They can refer people personally to SCS, too.
I agree with everything you've said...BUT I'm talking in regards to customers. Most of the people in this thread are customers (and how many more are reading but not commenting?) and these types of "business decisions" affect their bottom line.

Just because you upload here (or participate) it doesn't mean you are (or will remain) a SU customer.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:46 AM   #409
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If I want to shop exclusively, I would go right to the source. You can't do that with SU--you have to find a real live person to sell the stuff. There in lies the problem--they don't have a "store".

It is great to sit in your jammies and point/click and it is shipped to you with no make up on...granted you can do that with SU but why the middle man??? It seems to me they would make a greater profit by losing the direct sales thing...I mean if really this is what it is all about.
I believe you can buy direct from the Stampin' Up website without involving a demo if you want. They do ask if you want a particular demo to get credit but you don't have to. They then take that money and divide the profits amongst all demos.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:46 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by kitty14 View Post
I have never been a SU! demonstrator but I bought their products for about 8 years or so. The last straw for me was when they added the 7% tax on the 10% shipping and handling because I am in NJ! That means I pay the 10% for shipping and handling, 7% sales tax on that,( like a "punishment for living here , although I know it is a legal thing) and then the regular 7% NJ sales tax! That all adds up! I order from all around the USA and nobody else charges me that extra 7% on their shipping.

They are cutting off their nose to spite their face, I think. It would serve them right if these demonstrators all left SU!
Like someone else said, "Whatever happened to freedom of speech?"
Does SU! think they are "Big Brother" or something?

Don't "crucify" me! This is "OPINION TIME!" RIGHT?
You are so correct, this is opinion time, and it is great that we all have the freedom of speech to share our opinions.

But I do think you need to get your "knowledge" straight before you voice your opinion. In regards to the 7% tax on the shipping, THAT is your STATE'S law, not SU. I live in Washington state and we have always had to pay sales tax on the shipping.

Stampin'Up! by NJ state law "HAS" to charge you that tax. You said yourself it is a sales tax, and only your state has the authority to charge that. Your state is figuring that shipping is something that is being sold to you so you need to pay the sales tax on it.

If SU wanted to make money by charging tax, (which is impossible for them to do) then they would charge ALL states tax on the shipping. They would not just pick NJ. Again, you need to vent that problem to your state, not to SU who is only doing what they are told they have to do.

In regards to "freedom of Speech, they never said we could not talk about or not use other products, they said they did not want us "REFERRING where these other products could be found by giving link and info such as price, item # etc on our websites and blogs and other internet communications.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:46 AM   #411
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I think these kind of comments are taking it to the extreme. I highly doubt SU! wants to "control" anyone and I'm sure all of these things will be addressed by the company.
How is it taking it to the extreme?

it is black and white in the Q&A is it not?

I think they should cut back on the FB, twitter aspects.... the other, I understand, but I don't for one secodn think I'm taking it to the extreme. Many people peacfully co-exist with SU! and CTMH demos as friends.

Honestly, this is starting to remind of the CM demo we had around my area, the one who said if we used anything but CM our scrapbooks would rot in a shallow grave along with those of us who purchased them..... yeah she would pay to go to a Church sponsored crop to walk around and tell everyone how nice their page was but it wasn't in the right album or on the right page or made with right paper, and didn't use the right border stickers.... come on.

I like that there are SU! only blogs out there. I also like being able to buy from CTMH friend and my SU! friend and from PTI and my LSS..... there is a balance and I think SU! can get there without building walls around itself.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #412
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Don't know about what they are "about to find out." SCS can still influence SU sales and there's no reason it shouldn't.

Because any demo who has previously linked or suggested SCS to customers has already introduced them to the site. And as long as demos still choose to participate here, and demos and customers upload to SCS, then SU will still benefit from SCS.

Most demos also have other contact with their customers. They can refer people personally to SCS, too.

I think SU's point is that it would be in the best interest of their business to not do so.
I think there could also be another minor point of taking ideas as your own. If demos are participating here but not freely sharing that information with their customers there is ample opportunity for them to present tutorials, layouts etcs as their own work rather than crediting the source of the inspiration.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:49 AM   #413
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I think one gal a few pages back said it best that 'when we signed our original contract with SUP!, we agreed to not sell or promote other companies at our WORKSHOPS, CLASSES, etc.'

NO WHERE did we say that IN OUR OWN PERSONAL TIME we wouldn't work at the Local Scrapbook Store or IN OUR OWN TIME 'NOT share our creations of other products' on our 'personal blogs'.

If I was paying SUP $5.00 a month to host my blog, like blogspot does for free, then I would see how they could ask me to stop showing other product on my SUP based-blog. But my blog is mine, ya follow?

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this any different if I was working full time at Walmart and had an extra part time job at Kmart? Walmart doesn't have a rule that if you work at Kmart part time you can't tell anyone, right? I know these are apples to oranges in comparison, but do you know what I mean?
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:49 AM   #414
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I agree with everything you've said...BUT I'm talking in regards to customers. Most of the people in this thread are customers (and how many more are reading but not commenting?) and these types of "business decisions" affect their bottom line.

Just because you upload here (or participate) it doesn't mean you are (or will remain) a SU customer.
Absolutely true. I guess I misunderstood and thought you were doubting whether SCS could still influence SU sales in a positive way. SCS can hurt and it can help, but I think it's always been that way.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:54 AM   #415
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I am really curious to see what is going to happen to the demos who have to make that choice. I can think of one blog in particular that I love, she is on my Google reader, a demo and creates for another stamp company. I love her creations, I feel bad that one she has to make that choice and two I am going to miss out see her creations from either company because of this.

I guess the whole point is no matter what rules SU has other companies are going to be there. It is up to me where to spend my money. I would rather see SU demos incorporated with other stamps, CS, inks, etc to see just what the product can really do.

I am not bashing SU in any way, I think they have a great product and I am sure they have thought long and hard about what they feel is right for them, for their business. Honestly it makes me realize how many other great companies there are that are not having their DS teams make that choice. Those companies to me, make stamping and creating feel more like a community something fun we can all do. Right now, to me SU seems like they do not want to play nice with others. That is kind of sad.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #416
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How is it taking it to the extreme?

it is black and white in the Q&A is it not?

I think they should cut back on the FB, twitter aspects.... the other, I understand, but I don't for one secodn think I'm taking it to the extreme. Many people peacfully co-exist with SU! and CTMH demos as friends.

Honestly, this is starting to remind of the CM demo we had around my area, the one who said if we used anything but CM our scrapbooks would rot in a shallow grave along with those of us who purchased them..... yeah she would pay to go to a Church sponsored crop to walk around and tell everyone how nice their page was but it wasn't in the right album or on the right page or made with right paper, and didn't use the right border stickers.... come on.

I like that there are SU! only blogs out there. I also like being able to buy from CTMH friend and my SU! friend and from PTI and my LSS..... there is a balance and I think SU! can get there without building walls around itself.
Yes, I absolutely think it is extreme. You honestly believe that SU! does not want you to have your sister or a relative as one of your facebook friends??? Please...

Everything is not black and white.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:57 AM   #417
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Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this any different if I was working full time at Walmart and had an extra part time job at Kmart? Walmart doesn't have a rule that if you work at Kmart part time you can't tell anyone, right? I know these are apples to oranges in comparison, but do you know what I mean?
I have no idea about Wal-Mart... but many business have a "no compete" clause in their contracts-- whether you work as an employee or as an independent contractor.

SU is within their rights to ask demos not to promote competing products. Demos are within their rights to refuse to sign the new agreement. If they make that choice, they are also choosing the consequence of not being able to continue as a demo for SU.

And (clarifying again) SU is not saying that demos cannot use or even post projects using competing companies' products-- they are saying that if you do use or post pictures, to not "promote, market, or sell" those products.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:58 AM   #418
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Absolutely true. I guess I misunderstood and thought you were doubting whether SCS could still influence SU sales in a positive way. SCS can hurt and it can help, but I think it's always been that way.
Oh my gosh, no! LOL Like I said in an earlier post (at least I think I did, I've had numerous posts eaten today LOL) SU wouldn't be where it is today if not for SCS.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:00 PM   #419
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I am really curious to see what is going to happen to the demos who have to make that choice. I can think of one blog in particular that I love, she is on my Google reader, a demo and creates for another stamp company. I love her creations, I feel bad that one she has to make that choice and two I am going to miss out see her creations from either company because of this.

I guess the whole point is no matter what rules SU has other companies are going to be there. It is up to me where to spend my money. I would rather see SU demos incorporated with other stamps, CS, inks, etc to see just what the product can really do.

I am not bashing SU in any way, I think they have a great product and I am sure they have thought long and hard about what they feel is right for them, for their business. Honestly it makes me realize how many other great companies there are that are not having their DS teams make that choice. Those companies to me, make stamping and creating feel more like a community something fun we can all do. Right now, to me SU seems like they do not want to play nice with others. That is kind of sad.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:03 PM   #420
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I have no idea about Wal-Mart... but many business have a "no compete" clause in their contracts-- whether you work as an employee or as an independent contractor.

SU is within their rights to ask demos not to promote competing products. Demos are within their rights to refuse to sign the new agreement. If they make that choice, they are also choosing the consequence of not being able to continue as a demo for SU.

And (clarifying again) SU is not saying that demos cannot use or even post projects using competing companies' products-- they are saying that if you do use or post pictures, to not "promote, market, or sell" those products.
You forgot the part that is most upsetting to people ~ no linking to other blogs, etc that do "promote, market or sell" other companies products...which includes SCS.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:07 PM   #421
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:11 PM   #422
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SCS is totally wonky today.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:12 PM   #423
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Ha. Perfect.

It certainly does seem they want to pretend they are the only company in town. I know if I had not seen all the lovely samples on SCS, I would not have ordered from SU. But, shhh, don't tell your customers about SCS, because then they would know other companies existed! Of course, I love the fact that Shelli has the "don't be mean in your comments!" thing on her blog, so maybe in Shelli's Stampin' Up land, as long as you can control everything, there is one stamping company, everyone leaves gushing comments on your blog, and everyone rides unicorns through a chocolate forest.
mmmmmmm, chocolate forest. I wanna go there!
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:15 PM   #424
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Well I will be one of the many demos who refuse to sign the new IDA. I have already asked & been removed from the demo forums since reading some of the posts almost made my head explode. It seems that if you are staying, the response philosophy to anyone with concerns is get outta the boat (oh and by the way let your customers know they could buy from me).

I'm trying to regain my perspective. I've spent 2 years and too much money to convince friends of the virtues of SU. But ultimately, it's only paper, ink & rubber. I can sell my SU supplies when I resign. I can continue to hold stamp camps and use whatever products I choose. I can actively research and provide information on alternative product sources. I also have the right to truthfully explain why I no longer represent SU and my reasons for refusing to sign the new IDA.

As I noted on the demo side - I won't ever worry if my personal actions meet the SU protocol litmus test - that's just laughable.

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Old 09-02-2009, 12:15 PM   #425
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I think one gal a few pages back said it best that 'when we signed our original contract with SUP!, we agreed to not sell or promote other companies at our WORKSHOPS, CLASSES, etc.'

NO WHERE did we say that IN OUR OWN PERSONAL TIME we wouldn't work at the Local Scrapbook Store or IN OUR OWN TIME 'NOT share our creations of other products' on our 'personal blogs'.

If I was paying SUP $5.00 a month to host my blog, like blogspot does for free, then I would see how they could ask me to stop showing other product on my SUP based-blog. But my blog is mine, ya follow?

Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this any different if I was working full time at Walmart and had an extra part time job at Kmart? Walmart doesn't have a rule that if you work at Kmart part time you can't tell anyone, right? I know these are apples to oranges in comparison, but do you know what I mean?

Don't know about Wal Mart, but I do know that when you go to work for a hair styling salon, you sign an agreement that you will not work for another salon while employed at said salon.

Also, it usually always states in a contract that "if you leave", you cannot take your customer with you or take the customer info you or send out mailings to your customers telling them you are leaving and where you will be working. ALSO, most salon contracts state that if you leave, you cannot work within a 2 mile radius of the salon that you are leaving.

Apples to Oranges, yes, definitely, but the point is, each and every business does whatever it thinks it has to do to keep their business going. I know many stylist who thought this was the dumbest contract ever, but they signed because that is what most salons require. Funny how as the stylist grew in their customer base and decided they could set out on their own and set up their own salon, they handed the exact same type of contract to stylists who wanted to come to work for them.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:16 PM   #426
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SCS is totally wonky today.
I know...though it's probably helped keep the drama about this situation down to a dull roar.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:17 PM   #427
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SCS is totally wonky today.
Darn it... *slapping forehead*... I meant to suggest yesterday that folks check in on the home page for Daven's announcement about the server changeover.

They're still tweaking but Daven has a thread in Site Suggestions and Questions asking if there's anything particularly weird happening.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:26 PM   #428
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I know...though it's probably helped keep the drama about this situation down to a dull roar.

LOL
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:34 PM   #429
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Well said, akstampmama. Over-reaction, misinformation, and just plain not reading the Q&A and viewing the video at SU, seem to be the thing today.

Challenge anyone who thinks the change is unreasonable to go to sites like Scor-Pal, Michaels, Martha and others and see if there is marketing of other competing (competing being the key word) craft companies on them. I would also challenge folks on the forums here to read the SCS forum rules about advertising products. These types of rules are not new to SU or any other craft company. It is simply not fair or informed to come down on SU for this.

To switch the focus slightly, the discussion posts on this subject pushed me over the edge today. Mainly a lurker here on SCS, I've made two decisions.

First, since SCS no longer has a focus on SU only, I won't be steering customers here anymore. I used to tell everyone about how great this site was and how inspiring. I saw the suggestion to not tell customers about SCS in another post today and think it's a great one. (Friend, I'd like to give you credit but I've forgotten your name.) Personally, however, I will continue to come to SCS and appreciate it as a resource for ideas on the SU galleries only (for a long time, have set my browser to go there only).

There is just too much negativity here, particularly about SU. Why would I want my customers to see that?

Second decision I made was to discontinue my subscription to the Weekly Inkling since it no longer focuses on SU products. Understand what SCS is trying to do but since it was bought and broadened to have other stamp companies, and since the forums are so negative, will limit my use. And the ads are getting annoying.

Respectfully,
Debbie O.
Proud Army wife (retired) and SU demo since 2003
Got a blog too, but since it's SU only perhaps shouldn't give the address here )

Wow.... you talk about negativity and yet yours is the most negative post I've read.... and I've read all of them.

I think it's sad that you would deprive your customers of a great learning sight because of what you perceive as negative behavior... when all I see is many intellegent women having a discussion on something that means a lot to them. People are entitled to feel the way they feel and to express their opinions, as long as they're expressed thoughtfully without being insulting or abusive.

And how hypocritical is it that you won't tell your customers about SCS but you'll continue to come despite SCS featuring other companies besides SU and the annoying ads that come along with it?

That's just sad....
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:40 PM   #430
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I was thinking would it help if someone started a pertiction? for all to to sign for deoms and coustmors, that are disgree with new teram I am not a deoms But, just don't what on is fair deoms Or coustmors. I will buy that much or that off? but do what to show my support. And even tho. I am going to post in my gallery! hotwheels
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:41 PM   #431
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SU has update a couple of the Q&A's on the site... Since they've been hashed and re-hashed here, I thought it appropriate to post them here.

Quote:
Q: On my personal blog, I have links to my friends' personal blogs and web sites. Some of them sell competing product. Do I need to remove these links?

A: No and yes. On your web site, blog, or other online space, the policy is that you may not post links to competitive companies' web sites, or to locations where a customer could purchase competing products. As you evaluate the links that you provide, the only restrictions would be that the link should not a) direct to the company web site of a directly competing company (retail, online retail, or direct sales), or b) direct to the web site or blog of a representative for competitive products where the customer may purchase from directly. For example, if you link to a friend's site and customers can purchase products directly from your friend on that site, you need to remove the link to that site. If they cannot purchase products directly from your friend's site, you do not need to remove the link. Updated 9/2/09.

Q: I regularly participate in online forums relating to the craft industry, and maintain a gallery of my artwork on one of these forums. With the new IDA, is this activity still allowed?

A: Yes. Participating in forums and posting your projects for your fellow crafters can be an important method of inspiration and recognition. It's important to note that the new IDA does not prohibit this kind of activity. You may link to any blog or forum that highlights the crafting industry in general, regardless of the products highlighted or advertised. You may want to consider, however, where you are sending your customers, and the kinds of advertising they're likely to encounter when you make your decision on what kinds of links you recommend that your customers follow.

We are currently exploring ways to provide more of an open community and sharing environment, as well as opportunities for artistic recognition for our many talented demonstrators. We will keep you updated on any new developments. Updated 9/2/09.
So, because of the concerns raised by demos, SU will now allow links to sites that do not directly sell competitive product (e.g. challenge blogs, SCS, etc.). If a site does sell competitive product (e.g. PTI, GinaK, digital stamp creators' blogs, etc.), demos still may not link to that site.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:44 PM   #432
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Yep.. I'm with you on this one.. I think it's potentially a violation of our first amendment rights to restrict personal blogs, facebook, etc. And, as you said, it's in keeping with 'current trends' in our government. I'll bet there are HUGE legal issues to come with this one.
I jut want to make a few counterpoints to this comment.

1. No one has an absolute freedom of speech in an means of communications. For example, you cannot should "fire" in the crowded theather if it isn's so. Likewise, there can be repercussions if I post on my Facebook page that Mr. XX is a pedophile if this is false. I realize that these are extreme examples, but they still point out that in society we do not have an unrestricted right of free speech.

2. As for legal challenges, what would they be? SU as a company has the ability to make whatever rules they choose for their demonstrators. Heck, if they wanted they could say that if you choose to be a demonstrator you can only wear green shirts inside out and if a demonstrator violates that dress code, then their demonstratorship can be terminated. No one has foreced any of us to become demonstrators. Each of us, for one reason or another CHOOSE to be a demonstrator, CHOOSE to enter into a contractual relationship with SU and will either CHOOSE to sign the new IDA and remain a demonstrator or will CHOOSE not to sign the new IDA and our relationship with SU will terminate. There is nothing ILLEGAL about this. If we choose to sign the IDA then contratually we must follow the terms of the contract. If you don't care for the terms of the contract, then you should not sign the contract and move on.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:46 PM   #433
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Well I will be one of the many demos who refuse to sign the new IDA. I have already asked & been removed from the demo forums since reading some of the posts almost made my head explode. It seems that if you are staying, the response philosophy to anyone with concerns is get outta the boat (oh and by the way let your customers know they could buy from me).

I'm trying to regain my perspective. I've spent 2 years and too much money to convince friends of the virtues of SU. But ultimately, it's only paper, ink & rubber. I can sell my SU supplies when I resign. I can continue to hold stamp camps and use whatever products I choose. I can actively research and provide information on alternative product sources. I also have the right to truthfully explain why I no longer represent SU and my reasons for refusing to sign the new IDA.

As I noted on the demo side - I won't ever worry if my personal actions meet the SU protocol litmus test - that's just laughable.

Pat
I'm sorry but what you are saying about the demo side is just not true.
The "majority" of demos feel badly that anyone has to make this kind of decision and most all of us have said so time and again.

Just because you are angry at SU is no reason to blast the demos who are trying to see reason behind what SU is doing. I have never read one post yet that said what you are indicating about "let your customers know they can buy from me".
Out of the hundreds of post regarding this issue (and I mean that literally) I have only read two post that said they were all for this new rule and infact had asked for it many times. TWO posters out of hundreds is not reason to slam the demo forum.

I really am sorry that your leaving. I am more sorry for the demo who are on design teams and have to make their choice.

In regards to the blogs, the facebook and directing links issue, from the post that I am reading, and from the poll, out of about 1200 who polled, about 100 said they will be choosing leave. I feel bad for them. I also think some of them are going to regret it down the line because of mis information and because of so many interpreting the announcement so differently.

I will say that SU has a lot of clarifying to do and I think once the dust has settled, they will do so. I just wish many would wait till they get clear direct answers instead of heated misinformation, or twisted information.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:47 PM   #434
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I was thinking would it help if someone started a pertiction? for all to to sign for deoms and coustmors, that are disgree with new teram I am not a deoms But, just don't what on is fair deoms Or coustmors. I will buy that much or that off? but do what to show my support. And even tho. I am going to post in my gallery! hotwheels
You keep on uploading!!! I don't know that a petition would do any good. I'm sure the demos who wish to speak to SU will do so.

It would make me sad if the policies of SU were to diminish SCS in any way. So please, continue to share !!!
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:51 PM   #435
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I believe you can buy direct from the Stampin' Up website without involving a demo if you want. They do ask if you want a particular demo to get credit but you don't have to. They then take that money and divide the profits amongst all demos.
I went to the site and saw that change...boy, they could have promoted that one better!

Now, if they would just do "online virtual parties" how great would that be?
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:54 PM   #436
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Thanks so much, Belinda, for providing the updates. It definitely seems like some of the issues that were most troubling are actually resolved. Yay!

It was really critical for them to change linking of sites that "promote" other products to ones that are a venue for "purchasing" other products.

And to clarify that participation in places like SCS is okay - and decide that links to SCS will be allowed.

*Sigh.* Good for them. Good for demos and customers.

Still wish SU wasn't always backtracking.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:56 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by patintn View Post
Well I will be one of the many demos who refuse to sign the new IDA. I have already asked & been removed from the demo forums since reading some of the posts almost made my head explode. It seems that if you are staying, the response philosophy to anyone with concerns is get outta the boat (oh and by the way let your customers know they could buy from me).

I'm trying to regain my perspective. I've spent 2 years and too much money to convince friends of the virtues of SU. But ultimately, it's only paper, ink & rubber. I can sell my SU supplies when I resign. I can continue to hold stamp camps and use whatever products I choose. I can actively research and provide information on alternative product sources. I also have the right to truthfully explain why I no longer represent SU and my reasons for refusing to sign the new IDA.

As I noted on the demo side - I won't ever worry if my personal actions meet the SU protocol litmus test - that's just laughable.

Pat
I'm sorry but what you are saying about the demo side is just not true.
The "majority" of demos feel badly that anyone has to make this kind of decision and most all of us have said so time and again.

Just because you are angry at SU is no reason to blast the demos who are trying to see reason behind what SU is doing. I have never read one post yet that said what you are indicating about "let your customers know they can buy from me".
Out of the hundreds of post regarding this issue (and I mean that literally) I have only read two post that said they were all for this new rule and infact had asked for it many times. TWO posters out of hundreds is not reason to slam the demo forum.

I guess I would have to ask, if you are no longer going to be a demo, why would you even want to "actively find and promote" any product you want.
One would think that you were a demo because you wanted to "sell" SU product. If that is not why you were a demo, than why does any of this even matter to you? I mean, why would you even be upset about the whole thing. To me, that is more confusing than what SU is requesting.

I really am sorry that your leaving. I am more sorry for the demo who are on design teams and have to make their choice.

In regards to the blogs, the facebook and directing links issue, from the post that I am reading, and from the poll, out of about 1200 who polled, about 100 said they will be choosing leave. I feel bad for them. I also think some of them are going to regret it down the line because of mis information and because of so many interpreting the announcement so differently.

I will say that SU has a lot of clarifying to do and I think once the dust has settled, they will do so. I just wish many would wait till they get clear direct answers instead of heated misinformation, or twisted information.

I am "NOT" putting down your opinions or your feelings, but I just wish you weren't leaving on such an angry note.
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:10 PM   #438
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I went to the site and saw that change...boy, they could have promoted that one better!

Now, if they would just do "online virtual parties" how great would that be?
Hey, Linda. I believe the option to purchase without naming a demo was always there from the beginning of online shopping. I think it just costs you more. And maybe you don't get hostess benefits; don't remember those details though I had them memorized at the time!! I like to always name a demo so they benefit from the sale and I pay a "preferred" price.
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:13 PM   #439
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I'm am truly sorry ladies, I don't know why my post are getting double posted.........
The second post is different from the first post because it posted when I actually hit "review post", I reviewed, made some changes and carried on, then hit submit.
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:32 PM   #440
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Oh my gosh, no! LOL Like I said in an earlier post (at least I think I did, I've had numerous posts eaten today LOL) SU wouldn't be where it is today if not for SCS.
This is just an inaccurate assessment of the situation. Well meaning, I am sure, but still inaccurate. SCS was started by a SU demo for her customers and downline, so in essence it could be interpreted as the other way around. It grew early on as many other demonstrators and their customers participated here. To imply that SU has grown by leaps and bounds since the inception of SCS is also inaccurate. Until the last couple of years, the top performers in sales and recruiting have not even been active on these type of sites. In the last couple of years a few demonstrators have clearly benefited from SCS, but not SU as a whole. The recent struggles and declining numbers for SU can be as easily explained by a bad economy and internet competition as a whole and compare to most companies struggling in the current economy. They have made several business moves to tighten their belts, and secure their business model for the future, this is just one component that ultimately impacts a relatively small number of demonstrators. However, given the number of demonstrators with blogs, if they don't make some guidelines now, who knows how many it would impact down the road. There is still a large portion of SU customers who don't participate on the internet, which would be about 90% of mine. I think most people can look at this move and use some sound judgement to see the business reasoning behind it. Especially once we can weed out the facts from the comments that are just wild assumptions.

I think SU did let things slide for quite a while because this site was owned by a SU rep, but that is no longer the case. The site is now owned by outside business entities and many other businesses are represented here and SU owes them no special consideration or vice versa. The fact is that SCS would also miss the many SU demonstrators who still hang out here as well as their many customers. They would probably prefer that we let them speak for themselves. There is plenty of benefit to go around for all as far as that is concerned. There are a bunch of SU people who come here, read their ads and buy from the member companies, even if they can't link their blogs here.

A couple of my posts have been eaten today too, so I wanted to post this again for Holly, and thanks to those who have responded kindly to my posts.

Holly,
Yes SU has said that there will be some overlap where some demonstrators will appear to be out of compliance, when really they are working with SU's permission as they fulfill their contracts. SU is working with demonstrators on an individual basis. It seems like the only issues might be with people who have open ended contracts or agreements with no real end date. So I guess that would be where design teams will need to also be willing to work with demonstrators if those design team members wish to remain SU demonstrators. But yes, it is my understanding that they will be allowed to fulfill all of their commitments, just not for an indefinite period.


I think I'll go post on my blog now!



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