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Old 02-27-2008, 10:43 AM   #1
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Default A rough beginning. :(

I just need to vent sorry. I've been teaching some beginning stamp classes, and people go through all lengths to try to save a dime, and end up wasting dollars. If you are going to stamp in your home (so you need your own supplies)....there are certain things you MUST have.

1) a good sharp pair of scissors, preferrable tonic or fiskar with spring action handles.
2) a TONIC cutter (SU sells)....choose between a 6 inch or 12 inch base.
3) an ATG gun with tape
4) at least one stamp
5) something to supply color (ink refill, stamp pad, marker, chalk...whatever)
6) paper

After the basics, above, you can purchase a ribbon, brad, punch, glitter, etc.

In my book a TONIC cutter and an ATG are NOT optional equipment. I own/have used 10 or 12 different cuttters, and dozens of types of adhesive. I have wasted tons of money, time, and material. Just buy what you need.

Again, it was a rough day. I'm just venting....so just ignore me and go on!

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Old 02-27-2008, 10:50 AM   #2
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am I wierd? (yes?)

There are lots of differences in paper, stamp manufacturers, coloring tools. Lots of grey areas, lots of great purchases, and I can even understand an inferior purchase. There are so many good choices that I wouldn't tell someone to stick with a particular brand...though we can discuss pros and cons of each, and what's applicable to your project.

But for a paper cutter and adhesive...there's no grey. There's no close 2nd runner up. There's no other brand or product I would suggest you consider (but you do have to choose between the 700 and 714 ATG). You will save so much money in the long run, and be so satisfied with your produce. Save your other adhesives...there will be certain applications you might still reach for them....but go buy a Tonic and ATG.

do other people see it as black and white as I do?

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Old 02-27-2008, 10:55 AM   #3
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not really I have been stamping off and on for years and until recently I didnt have a cutter, and I still just use acid free stick glue and it works for me..I have a fiskar cutter now and I really like it..but find myself using scissors alot. My advise to prevent yourself distress, when teaching beginning classes..precut the cards with your cutter and make up beginning stamping kits, charge a minimal charge to cover your supplies and it will go much smoother and distress you less..
sorry it stresses you...((((((hugs)))))
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:06 AM   #4
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I currently use Mono Adhesive and a Fiskars Rotary Cutter and they both work perfectly well for my needs and I am happy with what I can produce with them. I don't think there is any one specfic product that anyone has to have. Everyone has different requirements and product needs and they will work with what ever suits them best.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:09 AM   #5
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I agree somewhat with you. People like to cut corners, and then end up spending more money in the long run to get more appropriate products.

However, if they do find a lesser quality product that works for them, then that should be fine too.

I have to say your "At least one stamp" made me giggle....you mean I can't stamp without a stamp?
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:10 AM   #6
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I don't have the specific brands mentioned in the top 3, although I agree that they are good quality items, I believe that there are other brands that are high quality as well.

I think that items like paper trimmers, scissors, and adhesives, are like purses, you have to find the one that just "fits" you.

I'm with you 100% on just investing the money for quality right from the start! It will absolutely save you money in the long run.

I remember when I first started cardmaking, my mom trying to talk me into buying a paper trimmer. Why would I ever need one of those when I have scissors!? lol!
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:11 AM   #7
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Some I agree with, some not.

You do need a good scissors; you don't need the ATG. I love making cards, I don't have the ATG and I don't know that I'll ever feel a need to get one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mono Multi as an adhesive. I also agree that you should invest in a good cutter instead of buying multiple lesser-quality ones, but do you really need top-of-the-line if you make 6 cards a year?

Try to remember, you're teaching beginning stamp classes. Some of your students may be just trying the hobby on for size. Seriously, if someone had told me that to even start, I needed to shell out $50 for a glue dispenser, I'd have had a cow and found another hobby. Now that I've been doing it for a while, $50 isn't bad, but when I first started? It would have really made me do a double-take.

Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:18 AM   #8
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i will never own an ATG gun (this size of the thing doesn't make it look easy to use--maybe your students are intimidated, too!) and my fiskars 12" cutter is perfect for me and my needs. i agree with krystie lee and would say it's a matter of personal preference. now stamps? you NEED more than just ONE!! LOL!!!!
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:25 AM   #9
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cbetView Post
Some I agree with, some not.

You do need a good scissors; you don't need the ATG. I love making cards, I don't have the ATG and I don't know that I'll ever feel a need to get one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mono Multi as an adhesive. I also agree that you should invest in a good cutter instead of buying multiple lesser-quality ones, but do you really need top-of-the-line if you make 6 cards a year?

Try to remember, you're teaching beginning stamp classes. Some of your students may be just trying the hobby on for size. Seriously, if someone had told me that to even start, I needed to shell out $50 for a glue dispenser, I'd have had a cow and found another hobby. Now that I've been doing it for a while, $50 isn't bad, but when I first started? It would have really made me do a double-take.

Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade


LOL!!
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:28 AM   #10
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I use an ATG and a fiskers 12" cutter. I think beginners, however, should start with a that red duck dispenser(my mind is drawing a blank) and call it a day. 50$ is just way too hard for a beginner who doesn't know if they'll keep the hobby
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:33 AM   #11
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I did some of my first stamping at "stamp camp" workshops - went with a friend for fun - and everything was provided. The demonstrator had a $15 fee with a $5 rebate if you made a purchase. I had a great time - then looked at the catalog, and figured I'd never be able to afford to stamp on my own. I was encouraged to choose a stamp set or two, and pick up a few things at Joanne's/Michael's/A. C. Moore to try things out.

Yes, I've tried some things that didn't work out as well as more expensive things might have, but I've also had fun experimenting and creating on my own, and have gradually built up a collection of supplies I can work with. I have a wish list - and get lots of ideas here. I don't consider any of the money I spent wasted. I'll eventually have top-of-the-line stuff, but for now, I have stuff that is functional - and that works for me!
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:34 AM   #12
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I've been stamping & scrapping for about 10 years now, and I use a Fisker's 12" paper trimmer and have for years & years. I also still use glue sticks - much cheaper, easier to come by and I like using them. I know I'm in the minority but it works for me and I figure, why change? I do use other types of adhesive for different things (popdots, tombo glue, etc.) but I know how it is to start on the cheap. Who knows if the people coming to your class will even enjoy stamping in the future?

Hang in there!
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:58 AM   #13
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I agree with the girls above that cutter and adhesive are a personal preference. I use a tape runner and am happy with it. I consider myself a fairly serious stamper who spends at least a $100 a month on stamps and stuff.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:00 PM   #14
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I started out scrapping 10 years ago with just glue sticks and what ever sissors happened to be in the house. Over the years I have built up my selection of things to use. If there had been a must have list when I started and it had expensive things on it I never would have kept up with it.
I use all kinds of different adhesives now depending on what I'm gluing down. I like glue dots for embelishments, double sided tape for ribbon, glue sticks and rollers. I don't get the big deal about an ATG gun. I've never seen one used in a demo or even sold in a store in my area.
If I can't see how it works before I buy it then I'm not going to buy it.
I hope that you don't get to stressed out with your beginners. Remember you want them to keep comming back for more!
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:30 PM   #15
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If I was a beginner and heard I couldn't stamp or produce a card until I had purchased all of that - I probably would never have tried!

I used a $12 cutter and Walmart red duck tape for a long time before I invested in my *ahem* 5 cutters (which I use all of for different things) and dozen glue choices I have for myself....
.....and I think more than one stamp is a lot more helpful than all the tools!

To quote my dd....
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Stampin' is supposed to be fun!
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:33 PM   #16
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I have been paper crafting for nearly 8 years, using the same 12" Fiskars Personal paper trimmer. I also exclusively use Mono Multi. I have created many a masterpiece with my choice of tools/adhesive. It is whatever works for you! My mom and a friend of mine HATE the Mono Multi...they make such a mess with it...I wouldnt' use much else!
I can justify spending 1.99 on a tube of Mono Multi-not so much ~$50.00 on the ATG. That is just my financial situation. It I had to spend around 100.00 on a trimmer and a glue dispenser I would have to hang up my hat! JMHO Keri
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:57 PM   #17
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I have to say, I just went to go check out the ATG guns, and I am not terribly impressed. They seem so big, especially for doing small projects! I love my tape runners, I probably spend more money that way, but they are small and easy to use, and work better than the double sided tape I was using! I keep trying new things though. So, the TONIC paper cutter you are talking about, the one that SU! sells is the cutter, right? Not the little slider trimmer? I just have a trimmer. It works for me, but someday I might want to upgrade.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:04 PM   #18
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I have an ATG that I love, but I've never told anyone starting out they have to have it. I've helped a lot of friends start. Not all of them could have afforded any paper to stamp on if they were buying the ATG. I didn't get one until 6 years into my obsession.
I do not have a tonic cutter. I have the cheap Zision cutter that I know how to use to make sure I get straight cuts. I got my cutter for $5.98 at JoAnn's. I don't think I need another cutter and if I do get another one, I'll get a guillotine cutter from an office supplies store. I don't have any tonic or fiskars scissors. I have the JoAnn's versions of those scissors. My family and friends love the cards they receive even if I haven't used the name brand cutter or scissors to produce them. I would prefer my friends put more of their money towards quality paper and ink, and start with very few things cause what if they don't like being paper crafters. I don't want them staring at lots of money gone down the drain.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:09 PM   #19
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I agree that I don't think you "need" an ATG or a specific kind of cutter to start making cards. I personally use the Tombow (aka SNAIL) adhesive as my everyday stuff and sticky strip when I need a stronger hold.

At our weekend crop a few weeks ago, I was joking with my demo about her ATG714 and that it sounded like she was packing heat. I know that they will save you money in the long run on adhesive, but it is just so big. I can purchase refills for my tombow for $2.40 and they are much more convenient to drop into a bag to take to a crop.

I know it's frustrating dealing with beginners. Maybe you could try doing more advanced classes where you are dealing with people who won't be shocked when you tell them they need a $50 adhesive gun.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:11 PM   #20
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Sorry you're having a rough day, hope it brightens up for you.

Wanted to add that I have an old school paper cutter that's like 15 years old, no adhesive gun and no special scissors. I like to stamp but have never made a card nor do I scrapbook and am not sure I ever will.
I just like to stamp to decorate items for fun, and have no need for all those items.

Do I cut corners, yeah I probably do. I love being creative and saving money on hobbies makes me happy too.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:21 PM   #21
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For a beginner, I would suggest getting one of the many books on the subject from a craft store. Both AC Moore and Michaels have excellent ones to choose from. They are beginners books and explain the basics and what basic supplies you would need to start out with.

I agree with many of the posters in this thread that you don't need to go whole hog with spending for an ATG or a super delux paper cutter. You need the basics. After you get the feel of the craft and decide what direction you want to go in, then as your budget permits, go for the more expensive quality ones. Just because my Fiskars cutter only cost me $12 doesn't mean it won't cut like the $50-$100 cutter Stampin' Up or Making Memories carries. Each person needs to decide for themselves and the only way to do that is by trying things.

I started out with the small Fiskars cutter and now have progressed to a larger cutter, but have also purchased several others along the way. Each of them I still do use for particular applications, the same goes for adhesive/glue. I'm not a Contractor to use the ATG gun. I like something smaller and much easier to handle. One ATG gun will not work for all gluing applications. I have several glue/adhesive items that are used for various applications.

If you're teaching a paper crafting 101 (Beginners) class don't overwhelm the people by telling them they MUST have all the super expensive stuff. They'll loose interest before they even start. Besides......you should suggest to your students, not tell them what they need to have.

Those of you that use these expensive items, that's fine for you, but there are other items less expensive that can be used also just as well.

To answer the question of the poster in #1.......Yes there are gray areas, it's not all black and white. We can give opinions, but others have opinions as to what works for them also.

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Old 02-27-2008, 01:26 PM   #22
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For people just beginning I would not be suggesting "expensive" equipment like the ATG gun. I've been stamping about 10 years now - started with Scotch double stick tape and to this day have found nothing better. A friend has an ATG gun and I will probably end up getting one - but it uses scotch double stick tape, so really all I am buying is a large dispenser with bigger rolls of tape. For a paper cutter - I've gone thru so many and each time I buy a better one - but I am glad I started cheaper - so often we start a hobby just to find out that it does not hold our interest. I would start out with very basic minimal cost items and let stamping work its magic!
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:47 PM   #23
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Here is one possible source of frustration. Kathy is an instructor. People might be expecting to produce instructor/pro level work at a workshop or at home after her instruction, but they don't want to buy the right tools.

If you want cards that aren't crooked, you will do far better with a serious rotary or guillotine paper cutter (I can even get a perfect score with a stylus and the grooves on my 12" Tonic cutter). If you want straight cuts all the time, which in my opinion, really sets your work apart as high quality, it's harder to get there with a Fiskars Euro Trimmer or scissors. Now, all some people need/want are the scissors or the Euro Trimmer. That's great! But, if I were to go into Kathy's class, then complain or be difficult because my work didn't look just like hers, and it was because I wasn't using the tools to get me there, well then, I can see Kathy's consternation.
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:35 PM   #24
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When most start out, they tend to buy cheaper product. Which makes sense, why spend a ton of money before you know if you will like it. I know I didnt start buying high quality stuff for a few years into my adventure I just started buying SU DP, I do love it.
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Old 02-27-2008, 03:46 PM   #25
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I didn't start out with them, but I love my tonic cutter and ATG gun. But then again, I have a slight tool fetish (and managed to marry a man who refuses to do any sort of home improvement/car maintenance - go figure!)
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:32 PM   #26
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cbetView Post
Some I agree with, some not.

You do need a good scissors; you don't need the ATG. I love making cards, I don't have the ATG and I don't know that I'll ever feel a need to get one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mono Multi as an adhesive. I also agree that you should invest in a good cutter instead of buying multiple lesser-quality ones, but do you really need top-of-the-line if you make 6 cards a year?

Try to remember, you're teaching beginning stamp classes. Some of your students may be just trying the hobby on for size. Seriously, if someone had told me that to even start, I needed to shell out $50 for a glue dispenser, I'd have had a cow and found another hobby. Now that I've been doing it for a while, $50 isn't bad, but when I first started? It would have really made me do a double-take.

Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade
This is the best thing I have read all day . Thanks it is been a rough week and I needed a good laugh.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:00 PM   #27
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cbetView Post
. . . Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade
You. I wanna par-tay with you, girl!

Thanks for a great belly laugh tonight!
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:50 PM   #28
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cbetView Post
Some I agree with, some not.

You do need a good scissors; you don't need the ATG. I love making cards, I don't have the ATG and I don't know that I'll ever feel a need to get one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mono Multi as an adhesive. I also agree that you should invest in a good cutter instead of buying multiple lesser-quality ones, but do you really need top-of-the-line if you make 6 cards a year?

Try to remember, you're teaching beginning stamp classes. Some of your students may be just trying the hobby on for size. Seriously, if someone had told me that to even start, I needed to shell out $50 for a glue dispenser, I'd have had a cow and found another hobby. Now that I've been doing it for a while, $50 isn't bad, but when I first started? It would have really made me do a double-take.

Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade


too funny!!!! but true come to think of it that's how I was sucked in.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:54 PM   #29
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If my demo told me I had to have those things in my first class I would never have started stamping.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #30
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thank you all for your insight and perspective. It helps to realign my thinking. The day did get better, and reading all your notes put a nice finish on the day! tomorrow we'll start again!

kathy
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:10 AM   #31
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thank you all for your insight and perspective. It helps to realign my thinking. The day did get better, and reading all your notes put a nice finish on the day! tomorrow we'll start again!

kathy
Great Attitude!
Hope you have a better day today!!
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:45 AM   #32
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Some I agree with, some not.

You do need a good scissors; you don't need the ATG. I love making cards, I don't have the ATG and I don't know that I'll ever feel a need to get one. I'm perfectly happy with my Mono Multi as an adhesive. I also agree that you should invest in a good cutter instead of buying multiple lesser-quality ones, but do you really need top-of-the-line if you make 6 cards a year?

Try to remember, you're teaching beginning stamp classes. Some of your students may be just trying the hobby on for size. Seriously, if someone had told me that to even start, I needed to shell out $50 for a glue dispenser, I'd have had a cow and found another hobby. Now that I've been doing it for a while, $50 isn't bad, but when I first started? It would have really made me do a double-take.

Remember, as we try to indoctrinate others into our cult, we must ease them into it gently - start with "all you need is some paper, scissors, glue and markers" and as they become comfortable with that, start introducing the special cutters and premium stamps and special adhesives, and gradually desensitize them until they truly believe that they can't live without a Cricut or Wishblade


So THAT'S how it happened! You guys are good....!
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:01 AM   #33
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[/COLOR]

So THAT'S how it happened! You guys are good....!
Large amounts of chocolate served during the process helps to create a sense of euphoria, which aids in the desensitization . . .

By the way, a note to Kathy, the OP - Now you've got me researching that Tonic cutter, because I am quite frankly not so much in love with any of the 5 I already own (except for my large Fiskars rotary, but that's really too big to take along anywhere) and if I had back the money I spent on the multiple Fiskars and the Cutterpede, I could have the Tonic with money left over for stamps!
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:49 PM   #34
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You know, I think the OP was just venting..it is so hard when people EXPECT their first cards to look stunning, like a Julie HRR card, or Jeanne S, or Bad Sherry, or any of the amazing stampers on this site. I know my cards don't ever look as good as their cards, but it was hard to take in the beginning, lol. It's hard to tell folks that in order to get a straight cut you need a good cutter, or that in order not to spend a ton of money on tape that an ATG gun works great, although I love mono multi too. Anyhow, I know she was just venting. I love all my things that I have aquired over the years. I started off with a 12 inch fiskar that my mom got me for my birthday 5 years ago when I wasn't even doing cards then. She gave me a ton of her cheap cardstock (a lot of which I still have), and I got a stamp set and black ink pad. Well now I own over 1000+ stamps, every color of ink SU has ever come out with, an ATG, 3 tonics (the 12 x 12, the 12 x 6 and the mini 6"), multiple bottles of mono multi, a scor-it, a wizard, 2 sets of nestabilities, more paper then I ever knew existed, lol..and the list just goes on!! Most of the things I have aquired in the last 2.5 years have come from having an uber generous husband who gives me money for the major events (birthday, x-mas, etc), so that works out great for me and my addiction. Is there more I could get, sure, there is more I want always, lol..but that is the nature of this craft, get us hooked and we will just keep spending!

So to the original poster, vent away! And to Cheryl, with a "C" , you nailed it right on the head!!
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:44 PM   #35
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Thanks you all! yes, I was just VENTING!!! it had been a frustrating day. And no, I don't give my people the list of "supplies"...and yes, I ease them into it. But some people spend plenty of money on stuff....yet they don't buy "what they need to get the job done". Then they are frustrated because their cards fall apart, or their card just doesn't look as nice (because they're not able to cut straight, accurate lines). I know myself, I wish someone had told me to buy the Tonic before I wasted money on 4 other cheaper cutters. I spent $5/week on glue for so long....I would have saved SO MUCH if I had known earlier to buy the ATG. Some people just emotionally (or financially) can't spend a large sum at one time. Some people can't see the detail that's wrong with their cards. It's a process. We are all learning. And we all have to learn at our own rate, as we are ready. It had been one of those days when you just keep banging your head into the wall, because someone is asking the questions, but not listening to the answers. We've all been there (me too!). So I guess it's just my turn to be on the receiving end! I really appreciate all your support....and allowing me to vent! thanks!

kathy
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