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Old 09-04-2009, 02:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by nbtbby View Post
Erika,
Thanks for taking the time to enlighten us from that perspective. As you said earlier, no matter whether SU had thought of that or not, I can see where some demo's would feel disadvantaged.

I am wondering if those in some of the scenarios you described went to SU and explained that even without a contract, there would be a loss for either the designer or the design team of a monetary nature, that they may consider those on a one on one basis. That may not be a written contract, but many monetary transactions are considered a contract by the courts. It was my understanding that they were working one on one with people depending on their situations. It would be worth a try anyway.

Belinda
I certainly hope so. SU doesn't want us breaking our contract with them, so I am hoping that they give the same considerations to the companies that DTs members have contracts with.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:18 PM   #42
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I just wanted to say "thank you" to all of you for keeping this conversation above board, objective, respectful and civil. This convo has been much more inviting than other convos on the "other side."
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:30 PM   #43
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Some demos have argued that they are not in it for the business-- that all they are in SU for is the discount. But SU provides the same training and basic benefits to all demos.
Not exactly.

If you're hard-of-hearing, as I am, along with quite a few demos I've gotten to know who are also hearing-impaired, you do NOT have the "same" training.

Audio training presentations that do not offer a written transcript are pretty much useless, if you're unable to hear one word in three--and unsure about the other two.

And yes, I've brought up this point with SU! Every Single Time a new training file has been released.

Never got any response other than "thank you for your comments and we are taking it under advisement".

Really puts you at a disadvantage, especially when there are new issues of importance to learn about. So do the Webinar presentations. I had to log on iChat with my upline and sideline to be able to ask for clarifications when I couldn't hear.

If we were EMPLOYEES, this would be covered by the ADA. SU! avoids this burden by contracting with us as independent contractors.

So much for "equal"--and how hard is it to give us something in writing?
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:53 PM   #44
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But SU has NOT said you can't shop at Michaels, they have NOT said you can't buy/use propducts from competetors, they haven't said you can't show off your creations to family, friends, and internet pals. All they have said is that you can't PROMOTE these companys by linking to their websites where a customer/potential customer can place an order.
SU also does NOT want credit given to the 'other stores & companies' = they want demos to be a vague as possible. So if I post a card in my Gallery that uses Hero Arts tree stamp - I would have to label it as TREE STAMP and not put the Hero Arts on there - To me this is VERY DISRESPECTFUL to all of the other artists and companies. But yet - other design team members for other companies will give SU respect and list the product as SU. To me those are the respectful people and companies I will now spend my money with.

I for one have a whole new look at SU right now. Many of my SU stamps will give me money to buy new stamps from different companies when I sell them.


SUNSHINE MAMA - I love your views and you have some very valid points that I never thought of.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:42 PM   #45
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First to Nicole... sorry for the turn your thread has taken here... I appologize in advance for hijacking it a bit longer.

I got the feel from the webinar that not giving out competitor's names was business advice rather than an explanation of the terms of the contract. SU's legal representatives told one of the presenters (they had only two microphones, so only two people were able to speak, and legal was there to make sure the presenters got everything correct) to be sure to mention the part of the IDA that says "incidental and occasional" mention is ok. So while SU's business advice is that demos not mention names (so as to not send our customers out after something), the legality is that we can mention names.

Personally, I have gone very nearly SUO on my blog, but I do support a friend who is a demo for a competing direct sales company, as well as another friend who has her own internet company, and if I choose to showcase their project either here on SCS or on my blog, I will mention the companies. Since I won't be promoting (go out and buy it now!), I believe this falls under the "incidental and occasional" mention outlined in the contract I signed.

And I still believe that "promoting, marketing, or selling" does not fall under behavioral restrictions.

As for the opportunities provided to demos... the opportunity is given to all demos to rise to any title within the company. People do not sign up to be hobby demos or business demos-- they sign up to be demos. So the opportunity exists to receive the benefits given to higher-level demos, including more frequent teleconferences.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the old IDA said that we could not "sell, promote, or demonstrate... [while] meeting with existing or potential Demonstrators or customers." SU has simply clarified that internet "meetings" are still meetings.

Yes, I signed the IDA, so obviously I feel that I can live with the restrictions on promoting and marketing other companies' products. I understand that there are those who feel this infringes on their rights. But as long as it's not the government telling me what I can and can't post , I still have a choice in the matter. I could have chosen not to sign if I felt that the contract was too restrictive. Every single demo has that choice.

I know it's a difficult decision for many, and I do feel for them.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:51 PM   #46
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I'm sorry for the situation you are in.

I'm happy to help in your writing campaign, as I'm sure others would be! I'm equally sure there are many of us who would be happy to provide transcripts to you and others since SU has not done so yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by organizedhome View Post
Not exactly.

If you're hard-of-hearing, as I am, along with quite a few demos I've gotten to know who are also hearing-impaired, you do NOT have the "same" training.

Audio training presentations that do not offer a written transcript are pretty much useless, if you're unable to hear one word in three--and unsure about the other two.

And yes, I've brought up this point with SU! Every Single Time a new training file has been released.

Never got any response other than "thank you for your comments and we are taking it under advisement".

Really puts you at a disadvantage, especially when there are new issues of importance to learn about. So do the Webinar presentations. I had to log on iChat with my upline and sideline to be able to ask for clarifications when I couldn't hear.

If we were EMPLOYEES, this would be covered by the ADA. SU! avoids this burden by contracting with us as independent contractors.

So much for "equal"--and how hard is it to give us something in writing?
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:08 AM   #47
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As for the opportunities provided to demos... the opportunity is given to all demos to rise to any title within the company. People do not sign up to be hobby demos or business demos-- they sign up to be demos. So the opportunity exists to receive the benefits given to higher-level demos, including more frequent teleconferences.
I agree, Belinda, that we can all strive to attain a certain level within the demo ranks. But...the fact of the matter is that not all demos will be at the rank (due to new incoming demos or people that have life situations that don't allow them to build more than a hobby) to be included in those teleconferences.

Again, I understand that SU will include higher level demos in conference calls, but THIS particular matter has left lower level demos feeling disadvantaged and targeted. Like I said earlier, I don't think that was SU's intention, but the feeling among demos that are affected negatively by not knowing ahead of time and others that DID know ahead of time has left many feeling hurt.
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