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Old 04-15-2005, 10:24 AM   #1
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Default Problem with 12x12 SU CS-Need Scrapbooker's Help!

This questions is related to SU's measurement of the 12 X 12 paper.

I tried to complete a project THEY put in our Stampin' News only to find out that the 12 x 12 paper is not cut to that size. When I confronted them they said it is cut smaller for embellishments and that is the way all the industry cuts the 12 x 12 paper. How can I cut three 4 x 12 sheet strips if I am going to be left with the last one 3 3/4 wide. You have to buy a whole new package to complete the project. I have to cut for 40 people and it cannot be completed with just one package.

O.K. I admit I do not scrapbook, but I am excessively upset that the paper is cut too short. I can't seem to get over this feeling of being cheated. I have written scathing letters to them on how cheap I consider this practice to be, only to be told, it is in their book and that is the way it is.

After all of that my big questions is to all your scrapbook experts is this basic practice to cut the paper short? It just seems you should cut it 12 x 12 if that is the way you advertise it, or call it ALMOST 12 x 12. Am I the only person out there that this has upset? Most sheets are cut and measured to fit your pictures, not put in the whole sheet in every time. If you are going to use the whole sheet, it seems in the best interest to cut it 1/4" before putting it together than ruining all other projects because it it cut incorrectly.

I feel like I need anger management counceling over this. I have to be wrong if I am the only one out there that is upset about this. I just can't believe this to be an accepted practice.

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated so I can just move on. I don't want my customers this mad at me for this.

Thanks for you input,

Doris Spath
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:30 AM   #2
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Well-I have no strong opinion either way. I see your frustration about that (I think SU! paper is actually 11 7/8 x 11 7/ especially if you start cutting and haven't compensated-then you have a random piece of scrap. I also understand what others say-that once you add layers and embellishments/fibers or what have you-it will fit better if it is a tad smaller.

Hmm...looks like I didn't have anything to contribute really....shoulda kept my fingers shut I guess... lol

I'm sorry that you are upset though.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:36 AM   #3
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I don't know what project you're creating, but could you maybe trim yours just UNDER 4" wide? Like 3 15/16" on all of them ??
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:49 AM   #4
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Wink compensating for paper size differences

When i was taught paper crafting, I learned that rather than measuring with a ruler, it is safer, no matter what company's cardstock you use, to actually score by folding in half and in half again to get same size strips for a project...especially if you are doing an accordian folded project...that way those differences become fairly imperceptable....you will always be at the exact 1/2 or 1/4 point on the paper....
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:02 AM   #5
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That would have been logical, however I had already set in motion to cut for the 40. I have the papercutter that cuts 6 sheets at a time and didn't notice the difference until after I had cut all of them the one four inches and then started on the second batch of 4 inches, which all of a sudden instead of having the third stack be the same it was a 1/4" short. It just proves that I can't trust them now. That wouldn't have happened to the 8 1/2 X 11. You get what you bought.
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:05 AM   #6
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I'm sorry. You must be very frustrated.

I thought this was common knowledge. I can understand how not knowing that would be very frustrating though.

I don't think SU has tried to hide this knowledge, but I'm sorry that you feel that you were misled.

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Old 04-15-2005, 11:06 AM   #7
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I'm not sure exactly what help you're wanting, also. If this is just a rant, that's fine but at first I thought you wanted feedback on how to salvage your project.

Is that what you want? Or do you want to just be "heard"?
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:27 AM   #8
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Having been a scrapbooker for several years before I discovered stamping and Stampin Up, I can say that SU is in the minority when it comes to making their papers just shy of a true 12x12. In fact, their cardstock is the only one that I have found (so far) that is not 12x12.

Patterned papers are different. There are several companies that make their patterned papers 12x11 3/4 - but they are slowley changing to true 12x12 so the patterned papers line up with the cardstocks.

As for not fitting into the page protectors with embellishments and such (that being the logic behind not having true 12x12) I have NEVER had that problem, and some of my pages are really 'lumpy'. Even my 12x12 SU scrapbook takes the true 12x12 pages with embellishments. Most page protectors are actually made slightley larger then 12x12 to compensate for the embellishments.

It is something that drives me nuts with SU, and the reason I do not use their cardstock for my main background when scrapping. I still use it for matting and such, but never a whole sheet for the background - I hate having the next page behind it showing through on the edges.

It is my greatest wish that SU will make their papers a TRUE 12x12.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:19 PM   #9
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Yeah, it bothers me too, but I guess not enough to do anything about it. The first time I cut my 12x12 paper for 6x6 scrapbook pages, that's when I noticed it! Now I just know to watch my measurements more carefully when cutting the paper. I know you're upset about wasting the paper and having to use another pack. Do you have enough on hand? Can you use the short pieces on another project?

I don't see anything listed in the catalog that the paper is anything other than 12x12. They really should document the actual measurements. They are actually intentionally misrepresenting the product, which has been grounds for many class-action lawsuits in other industries. NOT that I intend to sue SU! It's just that legally it could be possible.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:37 PM   #10
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmed
Having been a scrapbooker for several years before I discovered stamping and Stampin Up, I can say that SU is in the minority when it comes to making their papers just shy of a true 12x12. In fact, their cardstock is the only one that I have found (so far) that is not 12x12.
I've been scrapping for 8 years and my experience is totally the opposite. The number of companies that manufacture completely true 12x12 cardstock are more numerous than you might think. Even Bazzill, which is by far the hottest cardstock on the market among scrapbookers is NOT true 12x12. I just took out a piece and measured it!

It's not the end of the world! I also don't freak out when that last piece of TP on the roll doesn't equate to a whole sheet, but your mileage may vary.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:43 PM   #11
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmed
Having been a scrapbooker for several years before I discovered stamping and Stampin Up, I can say that SU is in the minority when it comes to making their papers just shy of a true 12x12. In fact, their cardstock is the only one that I have found (so far) that is not 12x12.
Not to be contrary, but I've been Scrapping for about three years and I have yet to find paper that is actually 12x12. Most companies cut it just shy of this so you can get it into your page protectors. I used to use Bazzil paper before I found SU (and our canvas stamp!!!) and it is cut smaller than 12x12.

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Old 04-15-2005, 12:47 PM   #12
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Hi Kimberly,

My biggest question was "is this common practice to cut it short".
Second one....isn't anyone else upset about this? I can't believe more people haven't written in to SU for this shortage. One of the biggest sales point they have made was how big their page pockets were to hold all the embellishments, now it is they are making the sheets shorter to compensate and allow us the room.....just pathetic if you ask me. You add up the 1/4" by the millions they cut that is a lot of paper!
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:05 PM   #13
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Default just my 2 cents...or is it 1 3/4 cents?

I worked in a scrapbook store about 8 years ago, before it really took off. This was when 8.5x11 was the norm and 12x12 was just creating interest. I know back then, when we use to order 12x12 cardstock (and there were only about a dozen colors), that it was 11 3/4 x 11 3/4. It apparently had to do with the maximum allowable cutting width that most manufacturers had on their machines. However, over time the demand for true 12x12 had manufacturing standards change...and now we get true 12x12 from most companies. Or at least that is what they told me when I asked a scrapbook supplier years ago. Hopes this makes you feel a little better, or it may suggest that stampin up need to update their manufacturing.
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:08 PM   #14
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I do think it's common to have paper cut smaller than a true 12x12. I'm not sure why unless it is for the page protectors. I am waiting to buy an album that is a true 12x12 so I don't have to trim the lo's I have already done.

Really, nothing is what they say it is now-a-days. A 2x4 piece of lumber is not a true 2x4. It's 1 3/4s x 3 1/4 or 3/12. I learned that the hard way when I was measuring and laying out a wall for Habitat for Humanity.
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:50 PM   #15
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Doris,

I have scrapped for many years and concur with some of the other posts that most of the papers I use are not true 12x12. I know this so I know to look for it. As a matter of fact, I use top-loading strap-bound page protectors, so if I use a true 12x12 paper, I have to cut it to fit! I do understand your frustration when trying to cut 6x6 papers. You just have to adjust your size a little. I believe SU is just doing what the rest of the industry has done, they are not trying to cheat anyone.

Have a glass of wine and a nice bubble bath, and you'll feel much better!

Hope that helps.

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Old 04-15-2005, 02:54 PM   #16
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Default True 12x12

Just as an FYI- Close To My Heart's cardstock and papers are a true 12x12.

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Old 04-15-2005, 03:06 PM   #17
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HA HA HA!!! I had to laugh the moment I read this... I too was trying to make probably the same project that you are talking about...the POCKET CARDS??? LOL

One of my "thirds" was just shy of the little other piece of paper I was going to use.... I then remembered that SU is 12x11 5/8 and will next time just adjust a touch with each... one eighth inch is not too much of an adjustment... I just trimmed the bit of paper that I used on the front of this so that it all worked out just fine... I am sure you can do the same and not have to worry about having enough for your workshop...right?
I am attaching it so you can see what I am talking about...
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:07 PM   #18
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Wow...adorable pocket card, Keri! Thanks for sharing it .
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:26 PM   #19
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Keri! Very pretty pocket!

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Old 04-15-2005, 04:39 PM   #20
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Thanks girls... it was soooo funny when I realized I need to trim the little edge paper.. I kept looking at it and saying hmmm what did I do wrong??? LOL!!! Then I realized it was just off a touch due to SU paper... LOL Oh well... glad I had my sharp Rubber Scissors on hand to trim it up...if you don't own those...GET THEM!!! SOOO worth the twenty dollars!!!
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:48 PM   #21
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Default short 12x12 cardstock

I too was very upset when I discovered that the SU 12x12 paper is short. And yes, I wrote them about it too. I didn't see anywhere in the catalog where it mentioned this and that is probably what upset me the most. (that they were selling 12x12 paper that isn't even 12x12) I discovered this when I was in the middle of a big project where I was using a 12x12 template and so all of my measurements were off. I just make adjustments now that I know about it. It is frustrating when you first figure it out though!
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:48 PM   #22
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Default SU's response....

Here is the problem that I have with SU....and I try really hard not to fault them *too* heavily for it, but on the same hand I *really* think they could create a "Facts Database" for common questions so that the operators could consistently give out the *correct* information!

The customer service rep who told you that "...that is the way all the industry cuts the 12 x 12 paper..." told you an outright lie. The industry is pretty much split 50/50 on the sizing issue. It differs with each manufacturer. And it isn't just c/s either - it's patterned paper as well. And beware if you "mix" pre-sized embellishments between manufacturers: if you have chosen a paper border from a manufacturer that adheres to the 11 7/8 or 11 3/4 sizing, then their borders will, too...which means if you try to place a "short" border onto a "true 12x12" page, you'll either be 1/4" or 1/8" short and will require something else to fill your gap.

With SU c/s, I have learned to take the 1/4" different into account:

Four 3" strips = 2 15/16
Three 4" strips = 3 7/8"
Six 2" strips = 1 15/16
Four 6x6" squares = 5 13/16"

It *is* frustrating. Unfortunately, while it isn't "industry standard" it is "accepted practice." If you shop in retail store, you may wish to do what I do: carry a small pocket tape measure when planning for those projects that the size really *does* make a difference. ~ K
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:50 PM   #23
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I have found that it is 11 7/8 not 11 3/4 do you all find yours to be a quarter of an inch different????
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:59 PM   #24
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Default Good question...

Keri:

It depends on when I bought them! I'm not all that good about "dating" when I've bought my c/s. Unfortunately, being *freakishly set in my ways* means that I hoarde both c/s and patterned papers...en masse! I also tend to *hide* it when it gets here so that I don't have to fib to DH about whether or not it is for me, a swap, an event, or a w/s....then I forget where I've hidden it.

Some are 11 7/8, some are 11 5/8, and others 11 3/4. Unfortunately, some I can tell by the colors pre-date the "re-alignment" to bring them back to the original, true, and intended 48. I think that when they did that, there may have put down some more strict cutting controls on their vendors. In the meantime, I still have to measure every time I go to make a cut....

sorry i'm such a goofball...
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:49 PM   #25
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You all have been great....I truely love the feed back. I'm still ticked at them, but I now know I have no control, except how much gin I have been pouring into my G&T this evening.....and I am much more forgiving at the moment.

Out of my rage I have gotten an absolutely adorable card shown from Keri, and receiving cards always makes me happier.

I feel like I have been to a group theropy class

Take care all,

Doris
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Old 04-15-2005, 07:28 PM   #26
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Keri!
Very pretty card! I'm inspired!
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Old 04-15-2005, 07:45 PM   #27
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I want to applaud all of you on this thread.

This is one of the best threads I have read in a while ... someone feeling frustrated about something .. feeling the freedom on this site to share their frustration ... other people "listening" and offering "how can they help" ... just wonderful!

You gals made me feel all warm and fuzzy!



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Old 04-15-2005, 08:47 PM   #28
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Thanks MJ...I have not uploaded to my gallery in WEEKS due to the site upgrades...it is nice to share here again! LOL
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Old 04-16-2005, 08:01 PM   #29
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Quote:

Originally Posted by FourAliments
Even Bazzill, which is by far the hottest cardstock on the market among scrapbookers is NOT true 12x12. I just took out a piece and measured it!
That's strange, I just measured a few of my Bazzill CS and all of it is a true 12 x 12.
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Old 04-16-2005, 08:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourAliments
Even Bazzill, which is by far the hottest cardstock on the market among scrapbookers is NOT true 12x12. I just took out a piece and measured it!


Quote:

Originally Posted by MsAudreyAnn
That's strange, I just measured a few of my Bazzill CS and all of it is a true 12 x 12.
Now here is where it gets weird. Bazzill is by far by the best know "name brand" c/s on the market. But National Cardstock also has textured c/s, some of which is now beginning to look deceptively like Bazzill...I picked some up the other day before I realized that it didn't match a Bazzill color wheel. I can't remember which of the brands it is, but one of the two is not "true" 12x12, and the other is. I've learned that I either need to shop at a store that separate Bazzill from National and other brands or that has a Bazzill color wheel if I'm looking to match papers.

You know: being so spoiled with SU papers, I'm really appreciative of being able to color-match everything. I really do get ticked when I got somewhere that doesn't have exactly what I want. Like the Chatterbox papers are all color-matched to the Bazzill c/s; so when a store carries one without the other, I find myself annoyed that I have to shop twice.

I know...I should be so lucky that these are my problems.... ~ K
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:33 AM   #31
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I have bazzill that are both....
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Old 04-17-2005, 07:29 AM   #32
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WOW.. thanks for the heads up on the paper sizes. I am a Bazzil freak and don't care a lot for the SU paper I know, it all matches and that is great! But, I just turned in my info to be a demo, so it is growing on me I have a PP hoarding addiction like too! lol But, when I measured most of my papers were true 12x12 size. I have K&Co., Basic Grey, Junkitz, SEI, MM, and others. I didn't measure every paper in all the sets, but the ones I did measure were true to size. I guess it just depends on the company. But not knowing and after cutting all those pages, I would be upset as well! It seems it should be stated somewhere in the book the true sizes. I am not one to measure all before I start cutting! But, I bet I will start! Thanks for the great thread!!
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