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Old 12-23-2019, 04:24 AM   #1
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Default PAYPAL BEWARE - BUT HAPPY ENDING

So I have a tale of caution for you all. I’ve long believed that if you are scammed on a website and have used PayPal you can appeal and they will reverse charges if you were ripped off. Apparently not!!

I ordered an item from a website which had an ad on Instagram. It was for a stainless steel over-the-sink drying rack. It was cheap and I expected it to be poor quality possibly but I certainly didn’t expect what arrived.

I got a cheap plastic set of containers. Ones of similar quality to dollar store items. Certainly not worth what I paid and not at all as described. And not even close to the size of what was described. I contacted the seller who offered some reimbursement but insisted that I received the item ordered. No way. The photo on my receipt and on my shipping confirmation showed a completely different item.

Of course when I went to the site and looked up the item I ordered, they had replaced my item with a photo of the cheaper item. Yet it still said ‘stainless steel over the sink rack’. In the top corner it even said $144 off (maybe not the exact number but over $100 off). For cheap plastic trays? What?

So I appeal to PayPal. I send them photos of my receipt and shipping notice with a totally different product. Their conclusion? I need to return the item to get a refund. Can you imagine the shipping to send this back to China? The address they gave me was even in Chinese! I can’t write Chinese! I wrote back explaining everything again. They still denied my claim! I am so mad it’s not even funny. The worst part is I was so sure of my tightness in this case that the Chinese company offered me a refund if I withdrew my PayPal case and I didn’t take it because I was hoping PayPal would stop working with them with evidence of fraud.

Oh man, I just hope this means no one here will get scammed like I did. I’m attaching photos of my receipt. Also a better photo of what I ordered from another website as the photo doesn’t enlarge well. But it’s clearly not what I was sent even so. And a photo of what I got.




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Old 12-23-2019, 04:41 AM   #2
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Wow. Sorry to hear you are going through this. And thanks for the heads up on PayPal. I only use them to order my craft supplies from companies I know, but it’s good to be aware.
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:38 AM   #3
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This confirms my reason for NOT using Paypal. People on BST threads don't understand why I don't use it. I have been burnt in the past and it took lots of MY time and MY money to clear it up and identity thief is a hard battle.
So sorry to hear of your troubles, but it confirms nothing has really changed in Paypal.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:36 AM   #4
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Did you use your credit card as the PayPal form of payment? If so, would they not help you dispute this issue? So sorry this has happened to you.........especially at this time of the year.
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Old 12-23-2019, 10:42 AM   #5
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I use PayPal only for sellers who I’m 100% sure would help if there was a problem.
And linking a credit card to PayPal is much safer than linking a checking account or debit card.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:12 PM   #6
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Wow. Talk about bait and switch.

Yes. Definitely try the CC company.
This is very disappointing. I have always had really great CS with PP. I might also go up the food chain at PP. You cant have better evidence than you do with those pics. I dont know that they would stop doing business but they should have forced the refund issue for you. Something must be going on for the company to be offering you the refund to get PP off their back.

Maybe take it.

I dont know that I am surprised to hear this in a way bc if they are doing a huge volume of business via PP they are making real money. One complaint is not going to sway that sadly no matter how righteous.

I flatly refuse to order from China ever. I think the one thing I have gotten was some washi tape. And I didnt mean to. That was my bad for not checking. I have heard SO many of these stories with the exact same problem-you cant return it there. I still have not figured how they are shipping to us...that smells like the stuff is worth a literal nickle for them to be making any money. I have been shocked at how fast it got here. I will say that.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:53 AM   #7
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The same thing happened to me. I ordered a shirt from a company advertising on FB (never again). I thought I was safe using PayPal. The shirt came from California at least 4 sizes too small. I wrote them because I wanted to return it but they never wrote back so I contacted PP. They contacted the company who said I could return it to China. The shipping back to China was double what the shirt cost so I didn't do it. PP said the case was closed because they did offer to take it back.

Having said all that, I don't think it is really PP's fault and I still use them for many online purchases. I like that I don't have to put my credit card number in every time I buy something (more chance to get hacked). I consider it a lesson learned not to trust FB ads unless it is from a reputable company that I have heard of. Even then, I usually don't click on the link FB provides. I go to their website directly instead.
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:12 AM   #8
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When I see anything on a website (eBay, Amazon) that says it is coming from China (long delivery time is a big tip off) I do not order it. You really have to look where it says it is shipping from and if it is from China you better be sure what the terms are for returning it. I ordered a top from one of those sites that pops up on our feeds that has the really cute clothes. My bad was that I never checked the size chart and didn't realize it was shipping from China. When I received it, it was way too small. So I started looking at the website and the description of the item and realized they had a completely different size chart from US sizes. I really felt dumb that I didn't look into it more before I ordered. Now I see lots of those companies showing up on FB or advertising on the internet and I stay away. Too bad, though, because their clothes are really cute and unique and inexpensive.
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:26 AM   #9
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I’m sorry you got ripped off and appreciate your warning others. A lot of those on-line clothing ads are scams that originate from China. Terrible quality, one arm long, one short, famous designer ads/photos stolen, etc. The Washington Post just did an article about it but there are many other articles if you can’t read it due to the paywall.

Most of the scam sites - and there are tons - are hosted by Shopify, which backs more than a million merchants/websites. Several scam clothing sites like Annie Cloth and Mod Lilly pop up here on SCS a lot, which is odd since I haven’t visited a clothing website for a very long time.

Here's how fake online stores will sell you overpriced retail junk - The Washington Post
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:19 AM   #10
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Oh Beth, I saw some gorgeous tops from mod lily ads on here! Luckily I don't shop online because their pictures were tempting!
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:24 AM   #11
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Oh Beth, I saw some gorgeous tops from mod lily ads on here! Luckily I don't shop online because their pictures were tempting!

I know! Most likely stolen pictures from a designer - just like Alibaba/AliExpress steal designs.

It’s really sad that Shopify doesn’t clamp down on the clothing scams. One site has a list of the scam sites and some are well known but many just change names repeatedly — again like the Chinese die companies do on Amazon.

Last edited by bjeans; 12-26-2019 at 01:28 PM.. Reason: Autospell auto messed up
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:58 AM   #12
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Well now that one annoys me-if you got it from CA I don't want to hear about it going back to China! If they specifically SAID it was shipping from CA...that is something PP should definitely step on. Was it in some small print under returns?? CA as I recall is a very pro-active state. Maybe you could write their AG or something...they may step on them.

It is sad the almighty buck is allowing way too many shenanigans. A person could spend all day trying to protect themselves or following up.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:27 PM   #13
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Rebecca, did you happen to call and speak to a person at PayPal? I ask, because I had something similar happen to me. I sent in the refund request to PayPal and they denied it. I was livid. I called and spoke with a person, explained the situation, and told them how disappointed I was with them (PayPal). He said often times it is how you word your request. (!!!) He redid my refund request, and I got my refund by the next day. I would be sure and tell them (if it comes up) that it is impossible to return the item since the Seller did not provide a return address. And that what you can find is in Chinese. It doesn't hurt to give it another shot, you've got nothing to lose.

PS: Although I was furious, I was calm and polite when speaking to the person at PayPal. I try to follow the "you catch more flies with honey" theory when possible. I admit, there have been a few times that hasn't worked, and it got ugly.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:28 PM   #14
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Oh, and FYI, my refund had to do with me getting charged for a one year subscription for something.
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Old 01-03-2020, 11:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grateful2bsaved View Post
Rebecca, did you happen to call and speak to a person at PayPal? I ask, because I had something similar happen to me. I sent in the refund request to PayPal and they denied it. I was livid. I called and spoke with a person, explained the situation, and told them how disappointed I was with them (PayPal). He said often times it is how you word your request. (!!!) He redid my refund request, and I got my refund by the next day. I would be sure and tell them (if it comes up) that it is impossible to return the item since the Seller did not provide a return address. And that what you can find is in Chinese. It doesn't hurt to give it another shot, you've got nothing to lose.

PS: Although I was furious, I was calm and polite when speaking to the person at PayPal. I try to follow the "you catch more flies with honey" theory when possible. I admit, there have been a few times that hasn't worked, and it got ugly.
I couldn’t find a phone number but I’ll look again. Thank you for this info.
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Old 01-05-2020, 09:14 AM   #16
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Seems to me, this is more of a "buyer beware" issue than a Paypal problem. I would never order from an ad in Instagram....occasionally I see things that look interesting and simply "Google" the item and take a look elsewhere...usually Amazon. At least in Amazon you can find reviews or other items that are probably of better quality.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:21 PM   #17
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oh, Paypal was easy to talk to when something happened with my son on Paypal. Although, I have experience to the opposite. The buyer was believed, not the seller. My son sold a digital account, the buyer told Paypal he didn't get it. (Not true.) And Paypal demanded money from my son. So, maybe it is hit and miss ...pretty much life, right? We are still working out the situation ...but yeah, I feel your pain regardless of the situation.
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:29 PM   #18
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Guess what? Grateful2bsaved was so right! I called and they said enough people complained about the scam that it’s now ‘known’ and my money has been refunded! Apparently it takes 100 reports of a scam for them to acknowledge it. Mine was one of them. I am beyond thrilled. Thank you so much for the awesome recommendation!
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:06 PM   #19
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There is no rule that 100 complaints must be filed first. What happens to the first 99 people? That seems to be a big PayPal problem; different reps say different things. It’s a crap shoot.

For anyone, PayPal isn’t a bank - it’s a service. So they are not bound by all the regulations that banks must adhere to for credit cards. Charging with a credit card provides more protection. For example, Federal law limits liability of credit card fraud to $50.00 - even if someone hacked into an account and charged $5,000.00.

If I don’t recognize a charge on a cc statement, during a phone call a rep will ask I want to dispute the charge. Or they may provide info that doesn’t appear on the statement. For example, maybe they may see what type of service it is and that will be a hint since sometimes businesses trade under a different name than their store name. (Not all banks provide high quality customer service but enough do to switch if not treated well.)

I use Paypal occasionally when I don’t want to go dig out my card, but only for stores I’ve shopped at, that are known to be reputable and have good customer service. Caveat emptor in 2020, y’all.

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Old 01-13-2020, 07:08 PM   #20
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So very glad OP got her money back finally! I learned my lesson about ordering from China on Ali express and will never do it again. Though i did ask for a refund which they gave me, i just don't trust their quality at all. And several items i ordered were not true to the picture they posted.
Nope, never again.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:06 AM   #21
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So very glad OP got her money back finally! I learned my lesson about ordering from China on Ali express and will never do it again. Though i did ask for a refund which they gave me, i just don't trust their quality at all. And several items i ordered were not true to the picture they posted.
Nope, never again.

That is because the pictures, the images, were stolen from artists and companies that own the items. Then they make cheap copies.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:29 AM   #22
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That is excellent news! Glad to hear it!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca Ednie View Post
Guess what? Grateful2bsaved was so right! I called and they said enough people complained about the scam that it’s now ‘known’ and my money has been refunded! Apparently it takes 100 reports of a scam for them to acknowledge it. Mine was one of them. I am beyond thrilled. Thank you so much for the awesome recommendation!
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjeans View Post
There is no rule that 100 complaints must be filed first. What happens to the first 99 people? That seems to be a big PayPal problem; different reps say different things. It’s a crap shoot.

For anyone, PayPal isn’t a bank - it’s a service. So they are not bound by all the regulations that banks must adhere to for credit cards. Charging with a credit card provides more protection. For example, Federal law limits liability of credit card fraud to $50.00 - even if someone hacked into an account and charged $5,000.00.

If I don’t recognize a charge on a cc statement, during a phone call a rep will ask I want to dispute the charge. Or they may provide info that doesn’t appear on the statement. For example, maybe they may see what type of service it is and that will be a hint since sometimes businesses trade under a different name than their store name. (Not all banks provide high quality customer service but enough do to switch if not treated well.)

I use Paypal occasionally when I don’t want to go dig out my card, but only for stores I’ve shopped at, that are known to be reputable and have good customer service. Caveat emptor in 2020, y’all.
I have my PayPal linked to one of my credit cards. I figure that way I'm covered both ways. If PayPal doesn't fix it, I'd go to my credit card company, since it is a charge on my credit card. Does that make sense? Luckily, so far I haven't had to test that theory though.

If PayPal had told me they needed 100 complaints first, I think I'd flip my lid. How did they come up with that magic number of 100? Like you said bjeans, what about those first 99 complaints?

As far as getting different answers depending on what rep you speak with, I'm pretty sure that's not uncommon. I've had that happen with more than a few.
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