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Old 03-22-2005, 01:55 AM   #1
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Default Case'ing and alternate website opinions needed

Alot has been said lately about CASE'ing. I agree that an attempt to give credit is required, even if it is just admiting they got an idea from another, possibly unknown source, whether it be similiar layout or inspiration for something else.

I know I have spent many years scanning and downloading card samples of things I had sets for and liked, or just layouts and ideas I thought were really cool and wanted to use. In the past, there really hasn't been as much of an emphasis on who came up with the idea.

I have literally thousands of SU card samples and have spent multiple hundreds of hours building a website so people could view them. This was before I found SCS. I started realizing that many of the samples, that I had obtained from other sources, were cards from SCS. Some of it could be people just posting their card to more than one group but not all of them. Other people copied and posted to their site, I'm sure.

My problem is that now I feel guilty for launching this website because I don't want to steal someone's thunder, ya know? I put a disclaimer on each page saying that I did not create these cards and that the "kudos" belongs to the actual creator of the card. I also asked that if someone saw their card posted there, they could email me and I will add their name to give them credit for the card, or remove it if that is what they prefer.

I don't even like to view the gallery now because I have a hard time stopping myself from downloading a copy of the cards, (you all are way more talented than I) I would kind of like to get an idea for how you guys feel about this. On the one hand, I want to be fair to those who created the cards and give credit where credit is due, but I also don't want to just throw away countless hours of work, where I could have been stamping. The site was started about 2 1/2 years ago, with a good intention of providing a high quality site, where people could "one stop shop" for ideas, techniques, patterns & templates, etc. Now, I feel like I would be stealing and have actually taken down the site.

Let me also say that as I downloaded these cards, I renamed them immediately with my numbering system that tells me at a glance which sets were used on the card and if they are still current. Unless the copyright info has their name on it, I have NO clue of who made each card, and do not have the time to spend searching the millions (?) of cards here to find the creator(s).

So, how would you feel if your card was one that was on my site? Would you be angry and ask for immediate removal, or ok with it as long as I added your name as the artist? Do you feel the disclaimer is sufficient and adequately conveys what I'm trying to say? Any opinion you have is very welcome, I won't be offended. I've toyed with the idea of just doing techniques and templates but those aren't original either so it's pretty much the same either way.

Thanks in advance. If I do decide to re-post the website, I'll post it so people have an opportunity to claim their artwork.

Stampin' Hugs - Linda T
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:07 AM   #2
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I've given permission to Lori Pinkham to upload my work to her web site, after she PM'd me asking if I wouldn't mind. (She visits my gallery often for new samples.) A lot of other Splitcoasters have given their permisson, also. I'm sure if you did the same with people whose work you'd like to include on your site, you'd get positive responses.
I was upset, however, to find scans of my work on a site I didn't give permission to. I was also not credited for my designs. After I contacted the site's owner, the issue was resolved, though.
If you post the website, it will give people a chance to "claim" their work and receive proper credit.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:36 AM   #3
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Default Case ing is wonderful

Yes, Linda, I collect ideas, rename then and save them for reference in my favorites as I collect sayings, photos, scrapbook pages and anything else that might interest me, just as I collect books with pictures of cards, etc. As a reference I use these ideas to make cards, scrapbook pages and any other art I want to create. One of the wonderful things about the internet is that you have a huge world in which to collect. I, for one, am getting very tired of all this "she used my ideas and didn't give me credit" stuff. If you don't want someone to copy it, don't put it on the internet. If we, all those who post, don't lighten up on this, less people are going to post their creations and less people are going to open up information sites for us (people like me who are not so creative on their own).

If I ever saw one of my creations on the internet on anybody's site, I would be so thrilled............so, please, copy anything of mine that you would like.

I do not mean to offend anyone here, but the internet is a vast resource for all of us to use, no harm is intended by using someone elses ideas.

Thank you for listening.
Laura
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:49 AM   #4
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Default Ditto!

I totally agree with what Laura posted. I am new to this website and am very thrilled with all the ideas and help I get for my stamp workshops. This is a great place and I would hate to see it turned into a negative cesspool. Thanks SCS and it's members who have worked so hard putting this site together. I'm looking forward to the upcoming changes.

Robyn
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:51 AM   #5
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I think copying is the biggest compliment!

Plus, isn't that why we're all out there looking at the magazines, catalogs and internet, for the ideas? I think if you don't want your work copied then you shouldn't post your creations. (That's just my opinion - don't want to upset anyone, but that's how I feel.)
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:51 AM   #6
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I would have to agree with Laura. I would have to say that most of the projects I make or whether for myself or for a demonstration - are from someone else's ideas. If someone has the time to sit and experiment, great for them, but I work 60 hours per week and it is all I can do to find time to stamp...let alone experiment from scratch!

I have never uploaded anything of my own, but once I had, I would expect people to copy it, download it, do whatever with it....after all isn't that why I would upload it?

I make it a point to metion at my workshops, that "gee, this wasn't my idea" when we are making a project - so that my customer doesn;t think they have to create from scratch either!

I often see people say they have "cased" a card - and I bet in reality, 90% of what we do is cased...whether we realize it or not or are willing to admit it or not!
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:53 AM   #7
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I'm sure you wouldn't want my work, as i'm not very talanted. However, anything that I upload is free game, thats why I do it. If I was to ever make anything I didn't want cased, I wouldn't upload it to the gallery.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:57 AM   #8
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Whatever happened to "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? IMO, the main purpose of these websites is to give ideas to those of us who are not naturally creative. If people don't want their work copied, they always have the choice to not post it.
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:06 AM   #9
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Ditto. If you don't want your ideas copied, don't post them here. Give credit where you can, but I can understand there will be too many to remember.
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:10 AM   #10
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Quote:

Originally Posted by stamper_jamie
I'm sure you wouldn't want my work, as i'm not very talanted. However, anything that I upload is free game, thats why I do it. If I was to ever make anything I didn't want cased, I wouldn't upload it to the gallery.
Jamie
I just saved 2 of your posts into my favorites....so I guess you're a little more talented than you thought!
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:33 AM   #11
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Default Sharing cards

Whenever I post a card to a website, I am thrilled when others like it enough to copy it. What a compliment! The whole idea of groups like this is to share ideas and inspire creativity.

These are just cards after all. It's about having fun.
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:50 AM   #12
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I too agree with Laura.. the complaining dont make any sense to me, Maybe those people need to set up their own secret site..to me, making and sharing cards is what this site is all about. Lighten up ladies.
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:58 AM   #13
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Default Casing

Thank you Linda! I've really been bothered by the thread about "casing" a few weeks ago. I've been afraid to send anyone anything I've stamped because I'm not sure if I should be saying "this is cased" or "this is semi-cased" or what. I too, have been gathering ideas from numerous places. I usaually alter the idea but the main idea is someone else's. With all the stampers out there, how can we possibly come up with an original idea everytime. For that matter, how do we know if what we "think and believe" is an original idea, wasn't in reality, someone else's first? I am not computer savy so I don't have my own gallery, but if I learn how to upload, anything I upload will be there for everyone.

This part is for Jamie. I "semi-cased" your 8 pages paint prints. examples. They are awesome!

A very specil thank you to all the wonderful artists who contribute to SCS!
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:24 AM   #14
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I'm going to give my humble opinion, in which may be the case or not the case (no pun intended :

As stampers, a lot of us have access to the SU inspiration sheets Idea Book & Catalog, mini catalogs, and the SU Portfolios....my point being, when using the ideas from these sources many stampers are going to come up with some of the same layouts, using the same colors, same stamp sets, etc. Or, same layout, different stamp set, etc.

I'm inspired by EVERYONE's uploaded projects, I only wish I could be as talented and create the original ideas I'm in awe of on this site!

I want to thank EVERYONE for sharing your work for all to see which helps many of us to learn by creating something similiar or the same. You are all great teachers and we also learn from each other, regardless of our level of creativity.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking time to share your artwork that inspires so many.
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:56 AM   #15
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This has been an interesting string to say the least!

I am so thankful that a complete stranger standing in the stamping aisle of Walmart told me about this site! I too am not very creative on my own, but this site has inspired me and given me new incentive to "get stampin"!

I would feel honored if someone wanted one of my designs on their site, but I also understand the artists out there who are very creative wanting to be mentioned as the designer.

I think it would be appropriate to use someone's card on your site and state artist unknown. That way you don't hurt anyone's feelings but also have the design out there for others to see and get ideas from. This way you are giving the artist who created the card credit even if you don't know who they are.

Just my thoughts.

Judi
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Old 03-22-2005, 06:17 AM   #16
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I've never joined in on any discussions before but I'll tell you this site is the best thing I've ever found for inspiration to help me with new ideas for camps and workshops. I also find great things for my daughter to make for her kids to give at school parties. I thought that was purpose for everyone that uploads their work. Could I be wrong? I wish I could find more sites like this one... I don't know to do it or I would be happy to share my work. Thanks...
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:23 PM   #17
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Default CASE'n

I was going to add my opion, but everyone else already did! I would add though not to take down your website, because there can never be to many inspirational places to look up ideas. And, if it was me, your disclaimer and info about contacting you to lay claim to ideas would be enough for me. Don't worry or feel guilty, TY for doing the leg work and taking the time to compile great ideas for everyone to find all in one spot!

Barbie
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:38 PM   #18
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I would not take down your website either! You have said that the cards were not your orriginal creations, and credited the ones you know who created them, and for the ones that you dont know who created them, the creater can contact you and you would be happy to give them credit! I think that is fair (to me at least!)

As for me, case or post away! I know that I get so much inspiration from here, sometimes it is hard to know if an idea was yours or something you saw of page 27 of 80 from last weeks recent posts that just stuck in the unconsious mind! If I know who did it, I will credit, if not, it is just inspired by some wonderful person on SCS, dont know who - sorry!

Good luck!
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:42 PM   #19
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First, let me say, I'm a problem-avoider! I probably also don't deserve an opinion, because I don't post in the gallery, but....

Why don't you take the extra second to type in the creator's name? It would solve your problems because the one's that are offended would be given credit, and the ones that aren't, well, they would get credit, too.

Personally, I think case-ing is fine. I just think you should give the person who made the original a little "limelight". That is how to avoid problems with people who are so up-in-arms for not getting credit.

Please don't say it would take too much time. I think it would be better than closing your site. Just do it for now on, and be a "flybaby" about the older posts...look up 15 at a time and give them proper credit.

Disclaimer: This is to be read in a "let me help you solve this" voice, not a "I am always right" voice
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:43 PM   #20
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I wouldn't mind having my cards on your site, but I would like to have my name listed I think if I put the time into making the card, I should get my name listed. That's all

Maybe I'm just an attention ***** though?
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:52 PM   #21
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i say post it and give people the info to contact you.

if someone is offended by your collection (that you aren't taking credit for!) then they can ask for their cards to be removed or credit given.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Case'ing and alternate website opinions needed

Quote:

Originally Posted by imastampaholic
I put a disclaimer on each page saying that I did not create these cards and that the "kudos" belongs to the actual creator of the card. I also asked that if someone saw their card posted there, they could email me and I will add their name to give them credit for the card, or remove it if that is what they prefer.
I think thats fabulous...I asked a question about casing lately because I was unhappy with someone casing a shoebox swap (which is actually quite flattering) and then publishing it as their idea. The moral I learned was to have more faith in my ability and to start sending in tp pubs/contests!!
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:13 PM   #23
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I have been visiting your site for about two months. I absolutely love it and find it such a treat to be able to view all of the creativity. It inspires me to become more versatile with my sets.

I commend the people who set up this site. For their countless hours of dedication to provide so many people with such a wonderful tool. With all the bad things happening in the world - this site and all the people who contribute to it - thank you! When I learn how to upload - I will be happy to contribute & anyone can copy me! Nothing here but praise!
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:34 PM   #24
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Thank you ny2nh, so much, that makes me feel good. Thank you.
Jamie
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:43 PM   #25
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Well IMHO, if you are the one who made the card, then it's "yours". It's your creation and you probably didn't use every single item in the very same way anyway did you?

But... if you took an image of someone else's card that they created and used it on a website, I think technically it's copyright infringement. This is the same if you are using someone else's quote on a card or scrapbook page. The item is their creation and you really need their permission to use it (in most cases).

But... all the above controversy can be avoided if you just get the person's permission in the first place. KWIM?

Personally, I like to copy certain elements of a card or scrapbook layout, maybe even the layout itself - but I use different colors, different papers, etc. so it's really my creation, right?
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Old 03-22-2005, 04:54 PM   #26
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Unless a card has been copywritten, like for example Hallmarks cards have, then they are not breaking the law if they use it in anothe place! Unless you all want to go and pay $$ to get your card Copywritten, then if you post it in a PUBLIC place like on the internet then it is FREE GAME!!

**IF YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR ARTWORK COPIED OR YOUR PICTURES USED BY OTHERS THEN DO NOT POST THEM ON THE INTERNET!!!!**
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:11 PM   #27
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SU says in their Demo magazine to use the card ideas they give you. I say CASE away girls! I agree w/using creator's name, if you really know who came up w/idea in the first place
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:12 PM   #28
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Just my opinion here:

For most of us, this just isn't an issue. I doubt anyone would want to copy my cards (I am a newbie that just started in October )

The ones that it really bothers are the really talented ones that could probably write their own book. They are VERY good at what they create and it shows. Just post something on all the boards that you downloaded off with the disclaimer for the creators to email you with their info and all should be good to go in a perfect world! See- all is great!
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:20 PM   #29
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I recently posted a card on a few different sites. I had a lot of people asking "did I mind if they copied" I told them go right ahead that is why I posted. I also submitted a card to a card sample magazine contest. It was a card that was CASEd and tweaked only slightly. Before I sent it to the magazine I contacted the person I cased it from and asked if she minded me doing this. She said she was very flattered and only asked that I mention her name as the inspiration. IF my card gets published we will both get credit.
I haven't seen the posts about caseing so I don't really know what was said. From this post I am assuming someone was upset about being cased. For me I am happy that someone liked my creation well enough to copy it.
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:32 PM   #30
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Quote:

I've given permission to Lori Pinkham to upload my work to her web site, after she PM'd me asking if I wouldn't mind. (She visits my gallery often for new samples.) A lot of other Splitcoasters have given their permisson, also. I'm sure if you did the same with people whose work you'd like to include on your site, you'd get positive responses
Quote:

I wouldn't mind having my cards on your site, but I would like to have my name listed I think if I put the time into making the card, I should get my name listed. That's all

Quote:

Why don't you take the extra second to type in the creator's name
I agree with all these posts, I think if you have access to the name, then it only takes a second to add it to the site. Even with a disclaimer, there will be those who will assume that the creations are yours.........
As far a casing concerns, I think it is always beneficial to the casee and the caser if credit- whether it is totally cased, inspired by, or whatever -
is given when possible. Makes everyone do the happy dance.

Valerie
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:37 PM   #31
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As others have said don't close your site down. I have seen many other sites that carry the disclaimers you use saying that I don;t know where this card came from & if it is yours please contact me to post your name or if you want it removed. That seems like it would cover anyone's objections to it being posted. I case alot and modify slightly, does that mean I should feel like I can't send out what I make? I don't think so. Sorry so long.

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Old 03-22-2005, 05:41 PM   #32
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Default What constitutes CASEing?

I always try to give credit where credit is due. But I wonder what exactly constitues CASEing? A lot of times I see an idea/design/layout in the SCS gallery, but I almost never have the exact ingredients to reproduce the design. So I borrow the layout, add my own stamps and embellishments, and voila! I have a new creation. Is that the same as CASEing?
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:56 PM   #33
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Okay, I shouldn't jump in here, but I can't help it.

I have had my website since 11/01. I have built it with images from my own work, friends, family, swaps and various e-groups I run or participate in.

I always credit the artist that created the image. Always. I try to always get permission to use the images, too. Sometimes I have gotten permission so long ago that I ASK again. Better safe that offend someone, right?

I have NEVER taken an image from this site or any other card gallery to use on my site. (Well, I have done it once, because someone ASKED me to). I think that if I went to someone else's site and took images from someone else's site -- including this site -- without express permission from the artist , it would be wrong. Taking an image is kind of like, well, stealing, isn't it?

In my opinion, there is a BIG difference between copying an image for personal use (To CASE or use for inspiration) to REMAKE a card -- and TAKING an image that is on someone else's site. BIG dfference. I think using cards for inspration is why we all surf the web and card galleries, after all. In my opinion, that is one of the reasons we are here -- for inspiration!

Personally, I think it is flattering if people case something I've made. ...and I don't mind if people use artwork that I post to e-groups on their sites -- as long as they credit me WITH MY NAME -- and not with a generic "this was made by another artist". I think that is wrong, too!

That all being said, if I have ever used an image from someone who doesn't want it there, they only need to let me know -- I will delete the image faster than you can say the word. I never want to offend anyone with my site!

On the other hand, I always welcome new artwork/artists! Keeps it fresh, ya know?

Okay, off my soapbox
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Old 03-22-2005, 06:39 PM   #34
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Quote:

Originally Posted by wynona
Just my opinion here:

For most of us, this just isn't an issue. I doubt anyone would want to copy my cards (I am a newbie that just started in October )

The ones that it really bothers are the really talented ones that could probably write their own book. They are VERY good at what they create and it shows. Just post something on all the boards that you downloaded off with the disclaimer for the creators to email you with their info and all should be good to go in a perfect world! See- all is great!
I disagree...I think it SHOULD bother anyone who takes the time to create their work of art. It is THEIR creation, regardless of their level of talent...afterall, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...who says one person is any more talented than another? We ALL deserve credit for our artwork. I may not be categorized in with the 'really talented' group, but I do make an effort to make my creations original (I don't intentionally CASE). Yes, I get inspiration from the artwork on this site and others. If my creation looks a lot like another person's creation because I was inspired by it, then I will give that person credit. But generally if something looks really similar to someone else's work, I won't post it.

I would make the effort to put the names of the people who created them. The ones that you are not able to identify I would take down. You will end up ruffling feathers if you don't.

All in all, I don't think it's right to post other people's work on your website without giving them credit. No, it's not copyrighted as someone else mentioned, but I feel it's common courtesy to give others credit for their work. Even if you have a disclaimer stating it's not yours, how many people do you think actually read that? People who enter your website are most likely going to think it's your work. Would you think it's right to write a poem or a book that was the same as something you just read and not give the original author credit? Of course not, that's plagiarism.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:37 PM   #35
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I'm not getting into this because I agree with most of what has already been said but I wanted to point one thing out. Stampin' Up! has given us permission recently to take images from the Stamper's Showcase and put them on our own SU! websites. They ask that we give credit where credit is due. For anyone not familiar with Stamper's Showcase, it's a gallery that demos have access to for ideas. They are other demo's cards put up by the company that have been contributed through contests and gathered at SU! events.

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Old 03-22-2005, 07:51 PM   #36
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First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has uploaded a card for us to case. I would be lost without it. I do admite I am one who hasn't always given credit, but not because I wanted the credit myself, just not sure who to give it too. So what I have started doing is saying Idea CASED from SCS that way I feel I have covered my basis and if anyone gets the card like in a swap, etc that they have done, then at least they know I'm not trying to pass the work off as my own. I have no talent when it comes to ideas, but boy can I case!
I do apologize to the ones who I have cased and forgot to put where I got the idea from. Please do not stop uploading your cards unless you really don't want to be cased, because I will have to quit if you do!!
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:20 PM   #37
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I think that a general "cased from SCS" should be enough as long as you are gracious about removing something if someone asks. I think if it is posted here, people should be interested in sharing it as long as you aren't claiming it as your own.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:53 PM   #38
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Thank you everyone for your comments.

I do think we've pretty much beat the case'ing horse quite dead, LOL.

We all agree that credit should be given where credit is due. Other variations are just another way to say the same thing.

No, I haven't decided what to do. The thought of spending hours checking each sample to see if I see a duplicate here to list the name is not a real pleasant thought. But then again, neither is completely redo-ing the site to take down those I don't know where they belong. Either way, it's a heck of a lot of work. I have some long hard thinking to do, maybe one of these days I'll find a happy medium.

Thank you again to everyone. I truly appreciate your comments. We are all one in our passion for stamping. Having the opportunity to listen to another's opinion and accept it and them is the way we learn and grow.

Hugs and kudos to you all, I respect, and admire you all greatly.

Linda T
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:14 PM   #39
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I have an Idea... why don't we all send you a few samples of cards that we have done??? that way you can have cards from people that are ok with you using their samples and you will not be with out a web site!!!

Let me know if you want me to send you some of MY cads.... I would be thrilled to have my work on your site!!

Shellie
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:05 AM   #40
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Quote:

it's common courtesy to give others credit for their work.
The above quote says it all! I couldn't imagine being inspired by a designer and NOT giving that person credit. If people continue to be so cavalier about recognizing others for their contruibutions, some of the best designers will stop posting. Then where would all you who depend on others for ideas be?
I keep hearing, "If someone CASED me and didn't give me credit, I'd still be flattered." Unless it's happened to you, you don't know how it feels! I know I'm thrilled when I receive credit and crushed when I don't. Knowing how it makes me feel, I like to give others the joy of recognition. It's a simple as that!
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