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Old 08-30-2007, 10:31 AM   #1
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Default can I sell CASED cards? *moved

I found an acetate card in one of the galleries here a couple of days ago. I made the card as a Teacher Appreciation card, and everyone who has seen it has loved it, including a lady who has a boutique. My question is can we make cards for sale from the ideas we find in the gallery or in the how-to section? If so, how do we credit the original? I know that to sell with Stampin Up products I would have to have a specific stamp set.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Old 09-01-2007, 12:26 PM   #2
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I found an acetate card in one of the galleries here a couple of days ago. I made the card as a Teacher Appreciation card, and everyone who has seen it has loved it, including a lady who has a boutique. My question is can we make cards for sale from the ideas we find in the gallery or in the how-to section? If so, how do we credit the original? I know that to sell with Stampin Up products I would have to have a specific stamp set.

Any help would be appreciated.

Crafts
Can anyone help me with this question? Does anyone know?
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:32 PM   #3
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Honestly, in a situation like this, I can't see that it's a problem. Yes, you will want the "angel policy" stamp on the card (although where to put it on an acrylic card, lol...?) to satisfy the company's policy. If you set up a website and advertised the card globally....well, that might be a different story, lol. But in a small environment like you're talking about, I just don't see it as a big deal, kwim?
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Old 09-01-2007, 01:20 PM   #4
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A boutique would be a problem for Stampin' Up! stamps because you are not allowed to sell them in a fixed retail location, even with an angel stamp on the back. You can sell them at craft fairs and bazaars with the angel stamp without a problem.

Other companies vary. Some are more strict and some are more lenient.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:15 PM   #5
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I think the OP is asking about the etiquette involved where she is selling a card that is not her original design.

If I'm right, then I would think it would depend on how close to the original is was - if it was a direct case then I would guess the best thing to do would be to contact the designer of the original card and ask their permission. If it was your variation of the design, I would guess you would be okay, but I'm not the CASE police.

Anyone?
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:25 PM   #6
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I think the OP is asking about the etiquette involved where she is selling a card that is not her original design.

If I'm right, then I would think it would depend on how close to the original is was - if it was a direct case then I would guess the best thing to do would be to contact the designer of the original card and ask their permission. If it was your variation of the design, I would guess you would be okay, but I'm not the CASE police.

Anyone?
I agree with this I would say 99% of the time the original designer would say "sure!" But it's a nice courtesy to ask first. JMHO.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:33 PM   #7
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ya... I think it's always best to ask... I mean... what if the original designer also sells her cards... then she might prefer it if you didn't use the design.

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Old 09-01-2007, 06:47 PM   #8
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #9
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From what I'm reading in the OP, people in her workplace have asked to buy her card. I'm sorry, but I don't see where that's a case for the CASE police, lol. She did not mention fixed retail location or anything but selling to a few co-workers. No reason to build this up into a big thing...
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:12 PM   #10
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I am so confused about CASED and copywrite info. If you go to every blog and every website, your are going to see JUST about the same type of card design somewhere along the line.

Just the example with the acitate, there was a class on it on one of the websites I went into. Please don't ask me which one, because I go into soooooooooooo many, just as I am sure most of you do I do not remember. If it's not the same image, is it "CASED"?

So my question is this, "Who designed the card, and has the LEGAL rights?"

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, so please don't jump down my throat, I am just trying to find out becuase I honestly, really don't know.

I see all kinds of cards with copywrite and designed by info on them, who really is the owner?

If there is a Lawyer out there among SCS, could you please give a very short explanation? or pm me. I would really appreciate it, because I have had this discussion with other people, and everyone has a different idea on what is what, and I would really appreciate the correct information.

Thanks,

Alice
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSBetsyZ View Post
From what I'm reading in the OP, people in her workplace have asked to buy her card. I'm sorry, but I don't see where that's a case for the CASE police, lol. She did not mention fixed retail location or anything but selling to a few co-workers. No reason to build this up into a big thing...
No... not a case for the "case police" for sure! lol! All I'm suggesting is that if you see a card you like in the galleries or on a blog and want to sell to a friend, customer, co-worker... whomever... a quick note to the original artist can answer any question you might have about the use of the card/design.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:29 PM   #12
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JulieHRR, Queen of all that is rubbah and papah, has some excellent info on her blog. It's a good bit of reading, but I personally feel it's time well spent. There's three entries:

Read First

Second Entry

Third Entry

Good shtuff, Jules!!
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:39 PM   #13
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Default Not a lawyer . . . but here's my 2 cents anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommaladystamper View Post
I am so confused about CASED and copywrite info. If you go to every blog and every website, your are going to see JUST about the same type of card design somewhere along the line.

Just the example with the acitate, there was a class on it on one of the websites I went into. Please don't ask me which one, because I go into soooooooooooo many, just as I am sure most of you do I do not remember. If it's not the same image, is it "CASED"?

So my question is this, "Who designed the card, and has the LEGAL rights?"

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, so please don't jump down my throat, I am just trying to find out becuase I honestly, really don't know.

I see all kinds of cards with copywrite and designed by info on them, who really is the owner?

If there is a Lawyer out there among SCS, could you please give a very short explanation? or pm me. I would really appreciate it, because I have had this discussion with other people, and everyone has a different idea on what is what, and I would really appreciate the correct information.

Thanks,

Alice
Someone correct me if I'm wrong . . . but the copywrite and design watermarks folks place on the designs they post are specific to the [U]image[U] of the card, not necessarily the card design itself. For example . . . someone posts a beautiful card made with the latest PaperTrey set. If they don't put their watermark on the jpg there is nothing to prevent or deter another person to copy the JPG from the SCS gallery to their computer and e-mail it to Nichole Heady for her monthly contest and pass it off as their own. If the card had a watermark with designer and stamp copyright information, the watermark would be part of the picture itself and couldn't be removed from the JPG by another user, therefore preventing someone from being able to pass off someone else's work as their own.

As one of the previous posts mentioned, there are only so many card designs out there and at least some of the time we're bound to have similar or the same ideas no matter how hard we try to be original. What would be unethical would be exactly replicating a person's card and then submitting it for publication or for consideration in a contest.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:41 PM   #14
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Thank you so much to all of you! I appreciate your imput. Let me make sure that I am understanding everything correctly. I can sell cards at craft fairs and to co-workers, friends, etc using Stampin Up products. I can not sell cards in an established store even when using the angel policy stamps. And I should check with the designer of the card to make sure that that person does not mind.

Let me know if I misunderstood anything.....

Thanks again!
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafts9873 View Post
Thank you so much to all of you! I appreciate your imput. Let me make sure that I am understanding everything correctly. I can sell cards at craft fairs and to co-workers, friends, etc using Stampin Up products. I can not sell cards in an established store even when using the angel policy stamps. And I should check with the designer of the card to make sure that that person does not mind.

Let me know if I misunderstood anything.....

Thanks again!
Sounds good to me!
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:56 PM   #16
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K, Ladies!

DH works for the US Patent and Trademark Office---you can pm me if you want more specifics about this, but JulieHRR and others aren't going to like this-----

There really is no discussion here, I'm sorry to say. Once it's put out in the public domain without a copyright, it's out there. Even if it has a copyright it is very difficult to protect it---that's why Disney and Xerox and McD's spend so much money (and it costs tons of money!!) diligently prosecuting others that use their images.

And as far as SU! and the Angel Policy---it hasn't been tested in a court of law yet, but DH (who works for the PTO, remember) thinks that it won't stand up in court. That's why instead of prosecuting, SU! simply refuses to sell to demos or refuses to let demos sell to customers who violate the written Angel Policy. SU! doesn't want to go to court and risk losing their case (no pun intended , as well as spending loads of money over the issue. And the publicity would not be benficial.

Think about this---did Andy Warhol get Campbell's permission before painting the soup can? Nope. If I draw a silhouette that looks like Mickey Mouse ears and sell it on a card do I have to get permission? Nope. I drew it. But I can guarantee you that if I start to make tons of money off of it, Disney will take me to court---it's their bread and butter.

There's more info to write, but this post is already toolong!! Basically, I'm sorry JulieHRR, but it really is basically true that if you put it out there in a public domain without a password or a dollar fee to access it then it is just that public domain.

However, courtesy and kindness and respect are what make us the very best that we can be---creatively and intellectually.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:59 PM   #17
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The problem here is that the watermark protects the photo, not the artwork. If someone creates an exact CASE of another's stamped art they still created it themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkyPapers View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong . . . but the copywrite and design watermarks folks place on the designs they post are specific to the [U]image[U] of the card, not necessarily the card design itself. For example . . . someone posts a beautiful card made with the latest PaperTrey set. If they don't put their watermark on the jpg there is nothing to prevent or deter another person to copy the JPG from the SCS gallery to their computer and e-mail it to Nichole Heady for her monthly contest and pass it off as their own. If the card had a watermark with designer and stamp copyright information, the watermark would be part of the picture itself and couldn't be removed from the JPG by another user, therefore preventing someone from being able to pass off someone else's work as their own.

As one of the previous posts mentioned, there are only so many card designs out there and at least some of the time we're bound to have similar or the same ideas no matter how hard we try to be original. What would be unethical would be exactly replicating a person's card and then submitting it for publication or for consideration in a contest.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:05 PM   #18
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However, courtesy and kindness and respect are what make us the very best that we can be---creatively and intellectually.
Indeed, it does
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Minx View Post
K, Ladies!

DH works for the US Patent and Trademark Office---you can pm me if you want more specifics about this, but JulieHRR and others aren't going to like this-----

There really is no discussion here, I'm sorry to say. Once it's put out in the public domain without a copyright, it's out there. Even if it has a copyright it is very difficult to protect it---that's why Disney and Xerox and McD's spend so much money (and it costs tons of money!!) diligently prosecuting others that use their images.

And as far as SU! and the Angel Policy---it hasn't been tested in a court of law yet, but DH (who works for the PTO, remember) thinks that it won't stand up in court. That's why instead of prosecuting, SU! simply refuses to sell to demos or refuses to let demos sell to customers who violate the written Angel Policy. SU! doesn't want to go to court and risk losing their case (no pun intended , as well as spending loads of money over the issue. And the publicity would not be benficial.

Think about this---did Andy Warhol get Campbell's permission before painting the soup can? Nope. If I draw a silhouette that looks like Mickey Mouse ears and sell it on a card do I have to get permission? Nope. I drew it. But I can guarantee you that if I start to make tons of money off of it, Disney will take me to court---it's their bread and butter.

There's more info to write, but this post is already toolong!! Basically, I'm sorry JulieHRR, but it really is basically true that if you put it out there in a public domain without a password or a dollar fee to access it then it is just that public domain.

However, courtesy and kindness and respect are what make us the very best that we can be---creatively and intellectually.
THANK YOU SOOOOO VERY MUCH. Just a tidbid-My father worked for a company and designed 4 things, one a sanitary pad, the other, some rice in a bag, and a couple of others, but since he worked for a company at that time, he has NO legal rights or gratuity to it whatsoever.

So I was just wondering about this type of info. You have cleared my mind and now I'm off to better things such as stamping, well not really, this is a Holiday weekend and there are too many craft sales out there. Bet a get a shopping.

Thanks so much,

Alice
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