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I took a little gift in to a friend at a local bead shop with bead embellishments. She LOVED it. She asked why we weren't selling them in the store? I said I probably could but that they would need to have the handstamped logo on the back. Of course I wanted to double check the Angel Policy and just noticed that you can't sell SU images in fixed locations. I have heard of others doing it in other places in the country. My mom has even bought cards at little craft stores and sent them to me only to discover they were SU images. Am I reading the rules wrong? Or are there lots of people out there breaking the angel policy? I will just go buy some Hero Art stamps or something if I need to.
__________________ Michelle Thomas Craft Well, Wrap Often, Stamp Much!! I FiNallY DiD iT - TAC AnGeL #2645
TAC (The Angel Company) has a TRUE angel policy. Not only are you allowed to sell what you create, you are encouraged to sell your art if you so desire.
Hero Arts also has an angel policy, but it's a bit more relaxed than SU's. You can sell cards using their images anywhere, but you must get written permission and also agree not to use any image more than 50 times. I guess that's so you'll keep buying new stamps. LOL!
I love TAC's policy, but find their stamp images a little stiff and out-dated. I wish I liked them, because I hate the fact that I can't sell cards made with SU! images in fixed locations. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that they even consider a desk in the workplace to be a "fixed location"! (Sorry, but I do sell my cards at work, and will continue to do so.)
__________________ "Life is much too important to be taken seriously." Oscar Wilde Proud to be a member of Mo's Digital Pencil Challenge DT! My BlogMy Gallery
Last edited by Happy Heart; 08-15-2005 at 08:06 AM..
I'm just adding some info, for those who may not be aware of the following:
Almost every rubber stamp manufacturer has an Angel Policy. Some Angel Policies are very lenient, and others are more strict. Angel Policies differ vastly among the many manufacturers in this industry. Many limit the # of projects per image that you may create within a year, and require that you submit written details regarding your plans so they can maintain that information for their records. Some require that their copyright notice be on the back of every creation using their images. In any case, it is the consumer's responsibility to inquire with the manufacturer for the details PRIOR to using those images for profit in any way.
These policies (and copyrights) are in place to protect the manufacturer and the artists who create the artwork featured on the stamp images. When we purchase a rubber stamp, we are purchasing rubber, and in some cases, wood! ;) However, rights to the artwork remain with the manufacturer/artist.
I strongly urge anyone who is considering stamping projects for resale through any venue, to please contact the manufacturer of the images you wish to use, prior to pursuing your endeavor, to avoid legal ramifications.
Stamp happy!
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
I understand the reasons for the Angel Policies, HOWEVER, we buy rubber stamps for no other reason than reproducing an artist's work. That is the reason it is made into a stamp!
I love SU!'s stamps, but it is really discouraging that we can't sell our cards (other than the occassional craft fair or customer request) wherever we want. The longer I am with SU! the more it bothers me.
Hero Arts also has an angel policy, but it's a bit more relaxed than SU's. You can sell cards using their images anywhere, but you must get written permission and also agree not to use any image more than 50 times. I guess that's so you'll keep buying new stamps. LOL!
I love TAC's policy, but find their stamp images a little stiff and out-dated. I wish I liked them, because I hate the fact that I can't sell cards made with SU! images in fixed locations. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that they even consider a desk in the workplace to be a "fixed location"! (Sorry, but I do sell my cards at work, and will continue to do so.)
Why don't you just take orders for cards at work, but refrain from keeping a display of them there? It's possible to sell cards to your coworkers and not violate the Angel Policy while you do it. I have a real problem with people who knowingly do things they're not supposed to just because they don't like the rules, and that's not limited to issues with the SU! policy. Be careful, as this "I'll do it anyway" attitude has come back to bite an SCSer or two.
__________________ Rachel Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog "I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
I understand the reasons for the Angel Policies, HOWEVER, we buy rubber stamps for no other reason than reproducing an artist's work. That is the reason it is made into a stamp!
Yes, however, that doesn't give anyone the right to financially "profit" from the artwork in an unlimited fashion, without fair and due compensation back to the creator of the artwork.
Please let me interject--I'm not here to debate the rights/wrongs, pros/cons of all the Angel Policies. I'm just trying to relay information so all perspectives are seen.
For example, (HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING!!!): Let's say I create a pattern, and I copyright it. I post it to share. Do you have the right to take my pattern and mass produce it for profit for yourself, without compensation back to me, the creator of it? Well, legally and ethically, no. A graphical image falls under that same protection, whether we agree with the law/policies or not.
This is a hypothetical example to illustrate WHY copyright protection and Angel Policies exist.
Granted, maybe someone making creations for a bazaar will not make thousands and thousands of dollars, however, IF they did, would it be fair to the artist of that graphical image?
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
The stamp is made for the sole purpose of the image on it being reproduced. The artist was compensated when s/he drew the image and sold it to SU! (or was paid a salary, whatever...). When the image is released to the public for sale, the person buying the stamp should be able to do whatever they want with the image (short of stating they are the original artist of the image).
To me, it is the same as a cookie cutter designer stating you cannot sell the cookies made with their cutter.
As far as the copyrighted pattern, yes, I believe you should be able to use this pattern to create projects and profit from these items. The pattern is copyrighted, so you cannot sell the PATTERN, not items made with the pattern. Same as stamped images. You should be able to sell a card using a stamped image wherever you want because you have used the stamp to create a project. It would be wrong to use the stamp to create a mold and reproduce the image on more rubber stamps and sell those. Make sense?!
I'm thinking we will have to agree to disagree on this subject...but that's what make this world great!
I'm not a demo, and I don't know the details of the Angel policy. However, as has been proven on ebay thousands of times, there are often loopholes.
Would it violate the policy if you sold/gave your "friend" a lot of cards, and then she decided to sell them somewhere else?
"Oh, I have no control over what my friend does with the cards I sell her!" Just like the ebayers who mysteriously have all the new release sets before anyone else but aren't technically demonstrators.
I do not know a lot about the angel policy but here is a scenario. Someone stamps a card, submits it for publication and gets paid for the submission. Is this allowed? They are essentially selling it to a magazine to be used. Not only is the artist profiting from the stamped image but ultimately the magazine is as well. Does the magazine have to also pay a royalty to the stamp company? Maybe the magazine views it as advertising since the stamp company is mentioned. This is just a situation I was pondering as I read this thread. NE thoughts?
BTW: I have never been fortunate enough to have this happen to me. Just curious.
Last edited by anniesmom; 08-15-2005 at 01:18 PM..
Reason: added
The stamp is made for the sole purpose of the image on it being reproduced. The artist was compensated when s/he drew the image and sold it to SU! (or was paid a salary, whatever...). When the image is released to the public for sale, the person buying the stamp should be able to do whatever they want with the image (short of stating they are the original artist of the image).
To me, it is the same as a cookie cutter designer stating you cannot sell the cookies made with their cutter.
Actually, just because you buy the cookie cutter doesn't give you permission to sell cookies made with their design, they could have a copyright on it. I know specifically that any of the Disney character cake pans made by Wilton are considered by Wilton to be one time use only pans, not for resale. So even though you've bought a cake pan that can last for years and years, the copyright states that you have bought it to make one cake only. (And this isn't something I heard from someone, we were taught this at a training meeting for Wilton Instructors.) And while I think this is probably the stupidest copyright policy I've ever heard of, it does exist and there are punishments if you are found to violate that policy.
I definitely agree that SU has a strict policy. I myself have been burned countless times when I think I've come up with a way to actually make some money, and then found that carrying out my "brilliant" plan would violate policy. I think it falls under the "this sucks, but I can't change it" kind of a thing. Any time I've thought about violating the policy for whatever reason, I've considered what my integrity is worth (**this is just my own personal decision on the matter, not meant to bash anyone who feels different). But on the other hand, it could be worse. We could be told that we're allowed to use the image one time, can you imagine?
I also agree with Julie, double check w/ the company first before you make items for sale just to be sure.
I did a bunch of craft shows last year and got permission from PSX and Hero to use their stamps (limited use) but I have other stamps from companies with few restricions on their stamps and I tend to use those for projects for sale.
I love TAC's policy, but find their stamp images a little stiff and out-dated. I wish I liked them -Happy Heart......Quote
I see that you love TAC's policy........I don't find our stamp images Stiff or out-dated in anyway....
Can you please tell us what you mean by this?
Have you seen our NEW catalog and STAMPS??
I personally Love our Stamps and Products.....
Yes I have Stamps from other companies and I use them as well.
I just went with TAC because of their policy. I like the freedom of being able to sell my artwork where-ever I want to.
Of course we can not sell our work at home parties.
Which makes good sense to me.
Cause we are into selling Stamps and other stamping supplies. not my artwork.
I just got a TAC catty. Great embellishments, GREAT designer papers (love that basic gray!). Great "extras".......but.....I think I know what she means about the stamps being....how did Happy Heart put it.....a bit stiff and outdated.....
I only liked a very FEW stamp sets in the TAC catty. I wanted to love them, I did! It was my first TAC experience. Well.......I could only find a few sets (most of which were word or alpha sets) because they're either too "cutesy" or "country" for this girl! There are some that are VERY striking, but overall, I'm not in love with the stamps!! Some of them remind me strongly of SU stamps from years past...so I'm guessing an former SU designer now works for TAC?
The sets seems somewhat "dated" ~ as in, saw a very similar set a few years ago ...
Prices seem OK though, I'm just not sure how that whole acrylic system works, I'll have to ask my TACAngel about that!
__________________ ~Debbi~
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending. ~Author Unknown
One thing to note is that you can sell your cards at a fixed location if you are presented as a "guest artist" and are present at the store front. You cannot have a permanent display at a fixed location, but you can have a "guest appearance" at one. From there you can have business cards (make them ATC's LOL!) to hand out for customers to make future purchases. I've done this once and it worked out well. I did check with both my demo and SU to verify that I really could do it like that. As long as *I* wasn't a permanent guest artist then it was fine.
__________________ Michelle
Docorate of De-Edumacation, Lawd, How Cum granted by Rainsong
"What's life if not doing things for other people?" Martin Gray
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row4d,
Yeah it's people with your attitude that comes back and bites people's backsides when people think they need to tattle! You did see me walk across the SU convention stage didn't you? ;) rofl!
Don't get me started again...I have a feeling that if this EVER gets to court...the copyright will not hold up. (Thier attorney is bigger then MY attorney.) Believe me I'm the first person to want to uphold a persons right to choose i.e. the artist...but the very purpose of a RUBBER STAMP is to make more images of the chosen stamp. I'm NOT in my basement making copies of the RUBBER STAMP to sell the RUBBER STAMP!
Geeez!
Oh yeah, did ya also know it cost $75.00 a hour for a copyright search? Did you know that SU has their CATALOGS copyrighted??? Do you know the history of the copyright laws in this country??!! And why we even have them? AND how they have changed over the past few decades??
Like I said don't get me started...you are talking out your backside!
Are you SURE you don't WORK for SU directly??!! You sure have a love affair going with them...
God help those who can't think independently!
Kim
Quote:
Originally Posted by row4d
Why don't you just take orders for cards at work, but refrain from keeping a display of them there? It's possible to sell cards to your coworkers and not violate the Angel Policy while you do it. I have a real problem with people who knowingly do things they're not supposed to just because they don't like the rules, and that's not limited to issues with the SU! policy. Be careful, as this "I'll do it anyway" attitude has come back to bite an SCSer or two.
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You know; this is just like the debate that started when i asked if someone could sell su stamps to me, i live in norway. I don't think that the companies who has that kind of rules regarding how one can use their stamps, really makes an effort to check that people are following those rules though.
We have to be honest about su, and every other stamp company, they are in it to make money, and it's us the consumers that are making sure that these companies makes money. In fact we are the best pr that they can get for their products because we make cards and sell/give them away for others to see what we have made and what we have used to make it. That's how certain stamps becomes trendy and popular.
This is for every one to decide what to do, but i do feel that some people are a bit two faced about this......
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janelill,
Your right...it's NOT the companies (they really have better things to spend thier money on) that does the snooping it's the other demos of the company that think they are the "Stamp Police".
In my case, I didn't try to hide...got "busted" and so the story goes... I still haven't been "outed" I can order SU just as before. lol! You can't copyright SU paper, etc! rofl!
Now if your thinking whoa...I must be a real *sshole, then you don't KNOW me, and have nver bothered to find out where I'm coming from. I'm not a politician because I'm not politically correct or diplomatic. In other words I'm not two faced.
Kim
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelill
You know; this is just like the debate that started when i asked if someone could sell su stamps to me, i live in norway. I don't think that the companies who has that kind of rules regarding how one can use their stamps, really makes an effort to check that people are following those rules though.
This is for every one to decide what to do, but i do feel that some people are a bit two faced about this......
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimeboss
janelill,
Your right...it's NOT the companies (they really have better things to spend thier money on) that does the snooping it's the other demos of the company that think they are the "Stamp Police".
In my case, I didn't try to hide...got "busted" and so the story goes... I still haven't been "outed" I can order SU just as before. lol! You can't copyright SU paper, etc! rofl!
Now if your thinking whoa...I must be a real *sshole, then you don't KNOW me, and have nver bothered to find out where I'm coming from. I'm not a politician because I'm not politically correct or diplomatic. In other words I'm not two faced.
Wow...didn't know I was going to get so many people upset with this. I just wanted to share my disappointment earlier today and make sure I was interpreting it correctly.
As for those of you who say go ahead anyway in some form or other, that is just not my style. I have a very high moral integretity that wouldn't let me do it now that I know the policy. I do think it stinks, but as someone pointed out, there are other companies out there that do let you use their stamps to make handmade items to sell.
Someone mentioned the acrylic stamps such as TAC and Stampendous sell. Well I took the plunge today and bought my first Stampendous set at the local Archivers store. I LOVE the acrylic system and as my DH said "WOW! It is that easy? And they keep on sticking and you store them like that? That will really save you space!"
I like SU sets, but the last 2 years they really had less and less that I really liked. Everyone has different tastes and the small teaser I got (THANKS for sharing your site Kimeboss) of the TAC stamps I think I will have to place an order so that I am able to make these gifts and cards for my friend to sell at her store.
Thanks again to everyone for sharing your thoughts and opinions.
__________________ Michelle Thomas Craft Well, Wrap Often, Stamp Much!! I FiNallY DiD iT - TAC AnGeL #2645
Well that was COMPLETELY uncalled for. Perhaps people wouldn't think you were a jerk -- however unjust that characterization may be -- if you didn't flame people with insulting posts like this.
I have stated on more than one occasion that I wish the Angel Policy were more lenient as I'd love to be able to submit my stamped creations to my school's gallery store or put a display in the candle store where I work as my bosses are only too happy to allow it. I was willing to play by their rules as a customer, and will continue to do so now that I am a demonstrator. I am very much an independent thinker and have never been one to agree blindly with anything. Anyone who knows me personally can attest to that.
The University of Virginia (class of 2000 here, baby! ) has a strict honor code. Not only are students expected to abide by the code themselves, but they are also not to stand by while others knowingly violate it. If we knew that any of our fellow students had committed an honor offense we were expected to report it. No, we weren't spending all our time running around looking for violators just so we could turn them in (UVA wasn't named the top public university for nothing!), but we did seek to maintain the school's reputation for integrity.
Disagree with me all you want, but please do not stoop to vulgar insults. It's not becoming, and IMO doesn't represent TAC very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimeboss
row4d,
Yeah it's people with your attitude that comes back and bites people's backsides when people think they need to tattle! You did see me walk across the SU convention stage didn't you? ;) rofl!
Don't get me started again...I have a feeling that if this EVER gets to court...the copyright will not hold up. (Thier attorney is bigger then MY attorney.) Believe me I'm the first person to want to uphold a persons right to choose i.e. the artist...but the very purpose of a RUBBER STAMP is to make more images of the chosen stamp. I'm NOT in my basement making copies of the RUBBER STAMP to sell the RUBBER STAMP!
Geeez!
Oh yeah, did ya also know it cost $75.00 a hour for a copyright search? Did you know that SU has their CATALOGS copyrighted??? Do you know the history of the copyright laws in this country??!! And why we even have them? AND how they have changed over the past few decades??
Like I said don't get me started...you are talking out your backside!
Are you SURE you don't WORK for SU directly??!! You sure have a love affair going with them...
God help those who can't think independently!
Kim
__________________ Rachel Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog "I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
Well put row4d. I do not think that following sensible rules set to protect someone's artistic property makes you unable to "think independently."
The Angel Policy is strict, but you gotta follow it - whether you agree with it or not.
The stamp is made for the sole purpose of the image on it being reproduced. The artist was compensated when s/he drew the image and sold it to SU! (or was paid a salary, whatever...).
Yes, that is true, they are paid, and yes, it is true that the image is produced on a rubber stamp for the purpose of being reproduced for personal use by a 2nd party, however it is NOT created for the purpose of being reproduced (whether hand-stamped or not) by a 2nd party for personal GAIN, unless such permission is granted by the owner of the graphical image.
Quote:
When the image is released to the public for sale, the person buying the stamp should be able to do whatever they want with the image (short of stating they are the original artist of the image).
That is a matter of opinion--but by copyright law, only the owner of a graphical image can determine how his image/intellectual property may be used. However, there is another perspective I would ask folks to consider:
This is an interesting and VERY difficult dilemna for a manufacturer. Let's say someone purchased a C-BRAND (hypothetical name) rubber stamp, and wanted to use the image to create G-string panties, for example, for resale in a store that carries *adult* products.
Unfortunately, consumers begin to associate the graphical image, the G-string panties, C-BRAND, adult products, etc. as one collective image.
Now, C-BRAND does not manufacture adult products, nor do they want their name/company associated with adult products, G-string panties, nor the retail store they are sold in, in any way shape or form. Without copyright protection and angel policies, they do not have recourse in protecting their company's image, because they would not be able to control HOW their images are used by the public at large.
Quote:
I'm thinking we will have to agree to disagree on this subject...but that's what make this world great!
I realize there is a lot of disagreement on the topic of Angel Policies, etc.
And, as I mentioned, I'm not here to debate the good/bad of Angel Policies. Just pointing out that there is more than just one perspective on the situation as a whole, and that copyright laws and Angel Policies exist for the protection of artists, manufacturers, etc., whether or not we as individuals agree with the law or the strictness of the policies.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieHRR
This is an interesting and VERY difficult dilemna for a manufacturer. Let's say someone purchased a C-BRAND (hypothetical name) rubber stamp, and wanted to use the image to create G-string panties, for example, for resale in a store that carries *adult* products.
Unfortunately, consumers begin to associate the graphical image, the G-string panties, C-BRAND, adult products, etc. as one collective image.
Now, C-BRAND does not manufacture adult products, nor do they want their name/company associated with adult products, G-string panties, nor the retail store they are sold in, in any way shape or form. Without copyright protection and angel policies, they do not have recourse in protecting their company's image, because they would not be able to control HOW their images are used by the public at large.
But then one's lifting the debate to an another level. What this debate is about, is not taking an image to use in massproduction on a business level, just selling a few cards!
And in my opinion, THAT's another discussion!
row4d said: "I have a real problem with people who knowingly do things they're not supposed to just because they don't like the rules, and that's not limited to issues with the SU! policy. Be careful, as this "I'll do it anyway" attitude has come back to bite an SCSer or two."
Wow! That sounds an awful lot like a threat to me! I'm not a demonstrator, and never will be, so I really don't think I'll suffer any repurcussions for selling a few cards to my co-workers as a convenience to them. My house is a "fixed location"....does that mean I couldn't sell from my home? That particular rule is ridiculous and un-enforcable, IMHO!
__________________ "Life is much too important to be taken seriously." Oscar Wilde Proud to be a member of Mo's Digital Pencil Challenge DT! My BlogMy Gallery
Hero Arts also has an angel policy, but it's a bit more relaxed than SU's. You can sell cards using their images anywhere, but you must get written permission and also agree not to use any image more than 50 times. I guess that's so you'll keep buying new stamps. LOL!
I love TAC's policy, but find their stamp images a little stiff and out-dated. I wish I liked them, because I hate the fact that I can't sell cards made with SU! images in fixed locations. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that they even consider a desk in the workplace to be a "fixed location"! (Sorry, but I do sell my cards at work, and will continue to do so.)
And more power to you selling them from your desk at work! It's against policy to sell them at a fixed "retail" location. Unless you work in a department store or some other place that sells items at retail, you can sell them with no worries.
The stamp is made for the sole purpose of the image on it being reproduced. The artist was compensated when s/he drew the image and sold it to SU! (or was paid a salary, whatever...). When the image is released to the public for sale, the person buying the stamp should be able to do whatever they want with the image (short of stating they are the original artist of the image).
To me, it is the same as a cookie cutter designer stating you cannot sell the cookies made with their cutter.
As far as the copyrighted pattern, yes, I believe you should be able to use this pattern to create projects and profit from these items. The pattern is copyrighted, so you cannot sell the PATTERN, not items made with the pattern. Same as stamped images. You should be able to sell a card using a stamped image wherever you want because you have used the stamp to create a project. It would be wrong to use the stamp to create a mold and reproduce the image on more rubber stamps and sell those. Make sense?!
I'm thinking we will have to agree to disagree on this subject...but that's what make this world great!
Do you also believe once you purchase a music CD you have the right to copy the artists' work to sell to customers?
What about posters? Would you have copies of � art made to distribute for profit?
Or a Hallmark card?
Copyright infringement is serious whether one copies the work of an artist or a writer. Contrary to what many believe, the vast majority of artists and writers do not make millions of dollars through the sale of their work. If they are lucky, the publsiher of their work will sell enough product to pay off the 'advance.' If they are luckier still, they will earn royalties on any sales after the advance has been met. Typical authors (not Stephen King, Patricia Cornwell, Norah Roberts or Rowling) make less than $2,500 per book--a book that may well have taken the author a year to write and another year or two to sell.
Can you live on $2,500 a year? I'm frugal, but I certainly can't live on that.
And artists are frequently poorer paid than writers.
Thanks for the clarification, Betsy! Someone had posted the "fact" about a desk at work being a "fixed location", and I thought it was an absurd notion! Guess it was also untrue! Since I work at a school, not a retail establishment, I guess I'm abiding by SU! policy.
__________________ "Life is much too important to be taken seriously." Oscar Wilde Proud to be a member of Mo's Digital Pencil Challenge DT! My BlogMy Gallery
row4d said: "I have a real problem with people who knowingly do things they're not supposed to just because they don't like the rules, and that's not limited to issues with the SU! policy. Be careful, as this "I'll do it anyway" attitude has come back to bite an SCSer or two."
Wow! That sounds an awful lot like a threat to me! I'm not a demonstrator, and never will be, so I really don't think I'll suffer any repurcussions for selling a few cards to my co-workers as a convenience to them. My house is a "fixed location"....does that mean I couldn't sell from my home? That particular rule is ridiculous and un-enforcable, IMHO!
Rachel wasn't issuing a threat so much as she was warning what has occurred previously to those who violate the law.
row4d said: "I have a real problem with people who knowingly do things they're not supposed to just because they don't like the rules, and that's not limited to issues with the SU! policy. Be careful, as this "I'll do it anyway" attitude has come back to bite an SCSer or two."
Wow! That sounds an awful lot like a threat to me! I'm not a demonstrator, and never will be, so I really don't think I'll suffer any repurcussions for selling a few cards to my co-workers as a convenience to them. My house is a "fixed location"....does that mean I couldn't sell from my home? That particular rule is ridiculous and un-enforcable, IMHO!
Well, it wasn't. I was just warning her that people have gotten in trouble for flaunting the rules when it suited them. And it does bother me to see people deliberately do the wrong thing. I hope it bothers you, too.
In regards to the "fixed location" restriction, your house does not seem to fit that description. Here is what the policy says:
Quote:
You may sell your craftworks at community fundraisers, seasonal boutiques or bazaars, or other temporary craft events. However,
the Stampin� Up! name, trademarks, or logos cannot be used at any location where personal hand-stamped items are sold, nor may
they be used in any manner to solicit sales of such items. Hand-stamped items cannot be sold in any permanent retail location
(any location that conducts business in a store, consignment shop, kiosk, mall, or Internet site), nor may they be sold to other
vendors for resale purposes, nor may they be sold at Stampin� Up! demonstrator-sponsored events such as workshops, stamp
camps, open houses, etc.
I apologize if my responses this evening sound a little terse, as I'm battling a splitting headache that just doesn't want to quit.
__________________ Rachel Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog "I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
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Sorry if it looks like I single you out, your just one of a dozen or so on SCS. I did a quick search on my past posts and this is what I found. This isn't ALL of them by anystretch, I have been hounded on SCS since last fall.
If some question my so called flaming or harshness of my post, I'd just say I've held my tongue / fingers pretty well over the period of time this has been going on. Enough is enough.
You were the one that refered to me as a "jerk" and I made "vulgar insults" lol! So who is calling who names?
Why can't anyone admit it, you were one of many on here that just relish the idea of tattling on people so you can get brownie points to make yourself what, feel good?? I never understood people and why they felt they must do the things they do because it's the "rules". There are SOOO many other things in life to be concerned about, loved ones off to war, people living with life and death decisions, hunger, street crime, in other words clean up your own backyard.
It's completely against the demo agreement, and very difficult to enforce. Trust me, many of us here have been reporting these auctions right and left, and a month or two ago finally got some small satisfaction when one seller was shut down. Another one whose demoship was pulled was an SCS member. Haven't seen much of her lately, but she tried to get us to believe she never had been a demo and her auctions and membership had been canceled unfairly. Of course, several demos remembered her being a member of the demos-only forum and it also still appeared in her profile.
About every month or so there's a long, heated thread complaining about eBay sellers that violate SU! policy. Some of them are also violating eBay policy, but only the ones who manipulate searches by including the phrase "not SU!" in their auction titles to get more hits from those looking for SU! product, and the ones selling current catalogs.
I'll bet everyone who failed to sympathize with her "plight" concerning her now defunct eBay store and canceled demoship is gettin' blacklisted (and I'm sure I'm on the list, but for some reason it doesn't bother me). Might get a little hard to follow forum discussions with that many ignored posts, though!
MamaK, you're going on my buddy list -- while we're both being ignored we can talk about our favorite Tree 63 songs!
IF you would have read the complete OP your referring to, You would NOW know I've NEVER been an SU DEMO, you can't lose what you never HAD.
btw, gloating is very un-becoming
Then why was your eBay store shut down? There is no restriction on non-demos selling their current stuff there (although my personal preference is to trade here). Were you by any chance listing current catalogs for sale, which is a direct violation of eBay policy? Also, when I checked your SCS public profile the other day to see if the other posters were telling the truth about you being a demonstrator, it listed you as being a member of the demo-only forum (the subtitle identified it as a group for SU! demonstrators). If you never were a demo, how'd you manage to gain access to that part of the site?
Well that was COMPLETELY uncalled for. Perhaps people wouldn't think you were a jerk -- however unjust that characterization may be -- if you didn't flame people with insulting posts like this.
I have stated on more than one occasion that I wish the Angel Policy were more lenient as I'd love to be able to submit my stamped creations to my school's gallery store or put a display in the candle store where I work as my bosses are only too happy to allow it. I was willing to play by their rules as a customer, and will continue to do so now that I am a demonstrator. I am very much an independent thinker and have never been one to agree blindly with anything. Anyone who knows me personally can attest to that.
The University of Virginia (class of 2000 here, baby! ) has a strict honor code. Not only are students expected to abide by the code themselves, but they are also not to stand by while others knowingly violate it. If we knew that any of our fellow students had committed an honor offense we were expected to report it. No, we weren't spending all our time running around looking for violators just so we could turn them in (UVA wasn't named the top public university for nothing!), but we did seek to maintain the school's reputation for integrity.
Disagree with me all you want, but please do not stoop to vulgar insults. It's not becoming, and IMO doesn't represent TAC very well.
I'm not a demonstrator, and never will be, so I really don't think I'll suffer any repurcussions for selling a few cards to my co-workers as a convenience to them.
FYI: The policy does not only apply to demonstrators, it applies to anyone that wants to sell their cards. Granted, the repercussions for a demonstrator may be worse if they want to keep their demonstratorship. Just a heads up.
Kimeboss, there is a huge difference between "tattling" on someone for violating the angel policy and for someone selling current items on Ebay. I'm sure that many who are not demonstrators would not understand the big fuss, but it's a huge deal to those of us who follow policy. Any demonstrator who sells current items on Ebay has a huge impact on other demonstrators who are selling the way SU wants us to (and the way we all agreed to when we signed up to be demonstrators). Is it fair for me to hold workshops, investing my time and money, to have people come, make my things, and then not order from me because they think they can get it cheaper from Ebay? It hasn't happened to me yet, but I know there are many out there who have their businesses hurting because of this. Not to mention, it's completely unethical to agree to something, sign an agreement stating such, and then disregard it.
I just wanted you to realize that your'e comparing apples to oranges (though I'm not sure you'll agree).
Well, I tried to be discreet and not name names, but I guess now everyone knows it was you. And as far as calling names, you called yourself something I'd rather not repeat -- I was just responding to that.
Once I discovered SCS the B/S/T forum became my first stop when looking for retired stamps that I'd missed the first time around, but before that I'd often check eBay. I saw lots of "illegal" auctions long before the topic started coming up here, and since dishonest demos "eBaying their way" to promotions hurt my own demo (now my upline), I did what I could to protect her business by notifying SU! of these auctions whenever I came across them, and reporting the current catalog sellers to eBay since that was also a violation of their policy. I guess the reason it seems as though so many were singling you out was that you kept making a federal case out of it, so to speak.
I'm doing my best to be civil here, and I hope that all those old posts you pulled up prove that.
__________________ Rachel Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog "I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
Go ahead & debate all you like, and feel free to let everyone know if you think the policy is right, wrong, unenforceable or whatever. But copyright law is just like the posted speed limit: if you get busted for violating it, nobody cares whether you think it's unfair.
So why spend our time arguing about it and picking fights? If you have questions, ask Stampin Up, and if you don't like SU's answer, talk to a lawyer.
SU Angel Policy Blah
I Changed my mind
