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Old 04-19-2007, 10:30 AM   #1  
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Default Provo Craft's Angel Policy and Cuttlebug

I noticed on Joan Bardee's blog, Paperlicious, that she has posted a number of angel policies. I was surprised by a few things in Provo Craft's statement which seem to me to be broad and restrictive.

These are taken from Provo Craft's website.

"2. Any craftwork to be sold must not incorporate third-party copyrighted material. The craftwork must contain only Provo Craft products that are sold under the Provo Craft trademark."

"8. Wherever possible, each item using or incorporating Provo Craft’s copyrighted material must be marked with “Includes Copyrighted Material of Provo Craft and Novelty, Inc.” in a reasonable size and location that gives reasonable notice.


9. Copyrighted material of Provo Craft may not be altered in any manner, including but not limited to, masking or overlaying portions in the overall design. Any other alteration will be considered an infringement of copyright. In addition, Provo Craft expressly reserves all moral rights in any copyrighted material."

I know that I have seen others mention their Cuttlebugs when making cards to sell and would seem like it should be OK. But, am I reading this right? If we want to use an embossing folder we need to use only other Provo Craft products when making a card to sell. And then we can't mask etc. Clauses 2 and 9 seem particularly restrictive. I must be missing something. Does anyone have a logical, more permissive interpretation of this.

My Cuttlebug box and folder packaging both bear the Provo Craft and Novelty copyright and trademark so it would seem they are covered by this policy.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:51 AM   #2  
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CTMH stamps want something similar about this. They only want their images and papers used on a card and nothing else. Like that is going to happen!

I think both are WAY too restrictive.

Anyone else have ideas about this?
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:55 AM   #3  
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You're reading it right! I know that a lot of people blast SU as they feel their policy is too restrictive, but obviously these companies have even more restrictions. And then others such as Hero Arts prohibit resale entirely.

If you're purchasing stamps with the intent of selling handmade items, you've got to do your homework first!!
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:04 AM   #4  
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Well Provo Craft has tried a lot of things lately that have bit them in the behind, lol, this one will. I frankly will use my Cuttlebug dies and embossing folders for anything I want and will let them get their attorneys on me. I was a CM rep at one time, about 2 yrs later I sold CM stuff on ebay, they had their attorney write me a nasty gram to which I responded so sue me. They did not and I don't believe PC would either.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:20 AM   #5  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by inkpad
I noticed on Joan Bardee's blog, Paperlicious, that she has posted a number of angel policies. I was surprised by a few things in Provo Craft's statement which seem to me to be broad and restrictive.

These are taken from Provo Craft's website.

"2. Any craftwork to be sold must not incorporate third-party copyrighted material. The craftwork must contain only Provo Craft products that are sold under the Provo Craft trademark."

"8. Wherever possible, each item using or incorporating Provo Craft’s copyrighted material must be marked with “Includes Copyrighted Material of Provo Craft and Novelty, Inc.” in a reasonable size and location that gives reasonable notice.


9. Copyrighted material of Provo Craft may not be altered in any manner, including but not limited to, masking or overlaying portions in the overall design. Any other alteration will be considered an infringement of copyright. In addition, Provo Craft expressly reserves all moral rights in any copyrighted material."

I know that I have seen others mention their Cuttlebugs when making cards to sell and would seem like it should be OK. But, am I reading this right? If we want to use an embossing folder we need to use only other Provo Craft products when making a card to sell. And then we can't mask etc. Clauses 2 and 9 seem particularly restrictive. I must be missing something. Does anyone have a logical, more permissive interpretation of this.

My Cuttlebug box and folder packaging both bear the Provo Craft and Novelty copyright and trademark so it would seem they are covered by this policy.

I read their policy as was taken back by it a little.
Only because I didn't know.
for posting it on your Blog.

I quess from now on I will be posting that copyrighted information on my cards that use Provo Crafts items as well as the cuttlebug embossing folders.

I also wanted to add some thing about The Angel CompanyTM Policy:
The Angel CompanyTM Grants Purchasers of it's Stamps a Royality Free License to Create and sell items which contain The Angel CompanyTM and Mabelle RO TM images, Providing each image is Hand-Stamped!

Mechanical reproduction without prior Authorization is prohibited.
This can be found on Page 255 in the current catalog under Other information.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:26 AM   #6  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by inkpad
9. Copyrighted material of Provo Craft may not be altered in any manner, including but not limited to, masking or overlaying portions in the overall design. Any other alteration will be considered an infringement of copyright. In addition, Provo Craft expressly reserves all moral rights in any copyrighted material."
So you're not allowed to layer anything? That would be "overlaying portions in the overall design."

Even from a basic crafting perspective, that makes no sense. Maybe they had a lawyer write the policy, one who has no clue what the products even are
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:29 AM   #7  
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Originally Posted by phunkymama
Maybe they had a lawyer write the policy, one who has no clue what the products even are
That would explain it!
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:29 AM   #8  
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I posted a link to this on the Cuttlebug thread a couple weeks ago (I think thanks to BarbaraAnne_stamps) but no one seemed to comment, which I found surprising.

I forgot about Hero Arts' policy - I'll have to go look into that. I have to admit this is why I don't buy Whipper Snapper stamps. Not that I've ever sold much of my work, but a girl can dream, right?
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:39 AM   #9  
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As Ron White says "I dont think so Scooter." I have sold cards and will continue to sell cards with my cuttlebug images mixed with other stuff. This is just way over the line.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #10  
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Me thinks so too..they sure know how to take the fun and the few $$ that might get for selling our cards..I always get asked where did i get the cute stamp..or paper or embellishment etc. i am always happy to say where..i think it is advertisement for them!!..its like we have to do all things in secrecy..sum is going a bit too far in my opinion..now we have to keep everything seperate?? cutters, paper, embellishments..puleezzz..
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Old 04-19-2007, 05:41 PM   #11  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubbernecker
Not that I've ever sold much of my work, but a girl can dream, right?
I don't either but I like to think I sometimes influence friends who do sell cards. I'll make sure I point out this policy in the future. While I really like my cuttlebug I might have thought twice about purchasing it if I knew I'd never have the option of selling cards with it.

I think it's a little sad to think of all the publicity this site has given that product only to discover limitations that don't jive with the uses that many of us have for the product either now or envision in the future. It would be a good idea to bring up copyright/angel issues up on any new product, not just stamps, that the "enablers" start talking up.

And about bringing this up on cuttlebug threads - I did some searches before posting this but it's so hard to find specific topics in those long threads. I just gave up and started a new one. Sorry I wasn't cruising those threads when you posted it earlier.
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:07 PM   #12  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by inkpad
9. Copyrighted material of Provo Craft may not be altered in any manner, including but not limited to, masking or overlaying portions in the overall design. Any other alteration will be considered an infringement of copyright. In addition, Provo Craft expressly reserves all moral rights in any copyrighted material."
I'm very puzzled by what this paragraph means. Does it mean if we use Rob and Bob Studio 12x12 papers, all of our projects for sale must be 12x12 and must not have any embellishment or stamping on it that obscures the paper?? Sounds like we're only allowed to sell their sheets of paper, then, and not anything actually made from it.
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:07 PM   #13  
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Then I think I'll just give my cards away and if anyone wants to tip me for them, then I'm covered, right? Because I didn't SELL them, just gave them away and got a gratuity. See? I COULD be a lawyer! Hee, hee!
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:10 PM   #14  
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Maybe we should all write in to Provo Craft and tell them that #9 doesn't make sense and ask them to rewrite.
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:53 PM   #15  
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Yowzer! I hopped on over to the blog (thank you Joan) and read the Hero Arts one specifically. As I just sold a Mother's Day card with their sentiment on it! It says they grant permission for personal and non-commercial use only. They specifically use the phrase *commercial use* in the next sentence that is prohibited.

Well, I don't own a business, I just occasionally sell a card or two to my sister's co-workers. I don't think that qualifies as *commercial use*, so I think it is ok to use their stamps on a card.

Any thoughts on this interpretation?

I pasted it here:

All Hero Arts designs and products are original and copyrighted, including the entire contents of Hero Arts Online. The purchaser of a Hero Arts product is granted a limited license to use such product, for personal, noncommercial use only. Reproduction of Hero Arts products or images in any way for either commercial use or in an inappropriate manner is prohibited without written consent.
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:11 PM   #16  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by inkpad
And about bringing this up on cuttlebug threads - I did some searches before posting this but it's so hard to find specific topics in those long threads. I just gave up and started a new one. Sorry I wasn't cruising those threads when you posted it earlier.
I'm glad you posted this here! You're right - it got buried in the other thread (I can't keep up with that one anymore anyway) and people need to know about this.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:08 PM   #17  
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I put together the list because I was reading, and in some cases, agreeing with, some criticism of SU's policies.

Wow! I was seriously shocked when I saw some of the other company's "angel policies"! (Before we jump on the lawyers (LOL), remember that a lawyer's job is to do the client's bidding.)

My reading (or as I say at my lawyer day job "I could support an interpretation of) of Hero Arts' policy is that if you want to sell something made with one of their stamps you should contact them and get permission.

Provo Craft's? Yes, I think the OP is correct in her interpretation. I can't find a loophole in this one!
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:21 PM   #18  
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Man! Hero Arts isn't making this easy! Contact a company on the off chance I may sell a card using one of their sentiments? What a huge pain. I think I only have 4 of their stamps.

I think I will buy All Year Cheer II from SU! and use their Mother's Day stamp on my cards instead and sell my HA stamps on Craigslist. LOL!

Thanks Joan, when my DH heard about the Angel Policy from HA, he agreed with me about buying AYC2 from SU! Any reason to place another order with my DH's blessing is a good one!

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