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Old 07-21-2006, 05:51 AM   #161  
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ahhh..but if you had left it at that..but you continued by saying
"what some people wont do for a sale"

That implies an indication that you think it has happened..

And nope...not super sensitive or hearing bells of truth ringing...
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:51 AM   #162  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deca1964
First off I gotta say you girls are hysterical!!! Jan...your song just cracked me up!!

As for the *serious* side of this thread (darn, how did it get back to the serious side anyway? LOL)
I am not a demo, as I have stated before so I am going on assumptions but I am thinking that in the demos only forums, the least talked about things is templates and techniques. I mean I see it as more of a support thing. I might be wrong...I have been known to be..L
But I *envision* it in my mind as being a support system in place where they can discuss things that might be working with some and not working with others. Granted, since we are all on here at SCS we have a hard time imagining that running the business side of SU could be difficult for a demo BUT..I can see lots of *problems* that they might want to just bounce off each other. LIke what you might ask?
Ok lets try these out for size:

1. How do you get people to actually book a workshop? Kind of important since workshops tend to be the scenario where *newbies* are converted into rubber obssesors such as ourselves on SCS. Trust me...not everyone loves the idea of having home parties etc and as a consultant for another company, I know this makes expanding your business very difficult

2. Where do you find new *business* when you might live in a small town and have several demos already in town? Again, goes very easily for any company and product.

3. How do you charge for classes? Again, my demo might be charging $20 for a Stamp a stack and demo 2 down the street might be charging 40 but inclueds a 3 course lunch. Which method works better to draw more customers?

4. Where do you promote your business?

5. Have you ever tried (this or that...insert any example you want into this question)

6. How did you handle this sort of situation? (again imagine any sort of, perhaps, *difficult customer* situation) I'll give you an example from my own selling experience...Customer comes to the party, sees Product A in person, loves it, ooohs and ahhhas over it,.has to have it...gets excitede and orders it. When she recieves it she says.....nay.....it's not want I wanted...hello? Unlike 80% of the catalogue you didnt order it blind you saw it in person...yet........the customer is always right...(altho having been a retail biz owner for 16 years I can honestly say that aint true...LOL)

Ok see what I mean by a support system? Sure, they learn new techniques and stuff off each other too but they learn that stuff off of us creative customers too sometimes so that part of it to me isnt so big.
Like I said, I might be wrong but it is MY vision of the demos forum...and if it is even remotely close I dont need to know what happens behind door number one JMO
Deca - you just explained about 95% of what goes on in the demos forum...
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:53 AM   #163  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenmouer
Deca - you just explained about 95% of what goes on in the demos forum...

Well like I said...was just what I "envisioned" it....
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:53 AM   #164  
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I am fortunate enough to have a demo who announces at each club which products she will not sell us (her choice) because she feels that they are not up to standards. When she received 6 or 7 pads of a certain shade of red a couple of years ago, that the color was off, she suspended us from ordering that color until she was sure the problem was fixed. When 2 of us (including me) ordered Cool Cat and got it with bubbled rubber, she asked people not to consider ordering it until she had assurance that the problem had been fixed. She discouraged us (and still does) from ordering the ink pads due to the problem of them sagging after a bit of use. We instead order reinkers and get blank pads and are all much happier with that. On the other hand there are some demos who defend these products to the death telling customers that they are just too picky or that the products are intended to do these things. One local demo actually told her group that the sagging of the pads was to allow for a special stamping technique and that they were made to do that.

I am sure these things happen in every company. I am not saying that SU tells demos to do this, but we know that sometimes demos DO do this. So when we talke about "unsatisfactory" product I do think an honest demo will be upfront instead of defending their company as infallible. By having a demo who does this I have formed trust. The other demo has no idea why people drop out of her 10 clubs to move to the other demo's clubs. It is about being more concerned about happy customers than money. Focusing on the money has caused it to backfire for the less than honest demo.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:01 AM   #165  
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Regarding post 164...ok..there is a fine example of what might be discussed in the Demo forum....remember that this post was around the secrecy of that demo forum. In my opinon when something like that comes up demos likely discuss it among themselves...how each deals with it is their own business and I feel they have a right to have a demo's forum to discuss things like this among themselves. I know I'd rather hear things like that from my demo than in a general forum...
And yes...there are bad business people in every business..the point is that this is a site that is run by volunteers who put in a lot of hours so that we rubber stamping obssesive gals can have a place to share ideas....I am sure thye certainly didnt intend this to be a place to bicker among one another like is happening on this thread.
Personally I love everything I have learned and found here at SCS and more power to them if they choose to leave a couple of areas (demos only, fan club) as selective entry! Like someone else said...their playground..their rules
And on that note, rather than continue to drag this thread on endlessly I am not going to say another word in this thread...

Unless of course I am verbally attacked again in some way...LOL
Have a good day ladies
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:04 AM   #166  
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Quote:

I am sure these things happen in every company. I am not saying that SU tells demos to do this, but we know that sometimes demos DO do this. So when we talke about "unsatisfactory" product I do think an honest demo will be upfront instead of defending their company as infallible. By having a demo who does this I have formed trust. The other demo has no idea why people drop out of her 10 clubs to move to the other demo's clubs. It is about being more concerned about happy customers than money. Focusing on the money has caused it to backfire for the less than honest demo.






the same can be said about any demo/representative from any company-home sales or not.

I am glad you found a demo you trust and you can work with.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:37 AM   #167  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deca1964
Regarding post 164...ok..there is a fine example of what might be discussed in the Demo forum....remember that this post was around the secrecy of that demo forum. In my opinon when something like that comes up demos likely discuss it among themselves...how each deals with it is their own business and I feel they have a right to have a demo's forum to discuss things like this among themselves. I know I'd rather hear things like that from my demo than in a general forum...

I think it belongs in the general forum precisely because there ARE demos who don't share the information with their customers, or like the one I mentioned, try to convince customers it is intended to be that way. By keeping it in the demo forum, you allow demos like this to continue to behave this way and for customers to feel like these very issues are being kept secretive in the demo forum so that sales don't suffer!
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:44 AM   #168  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by annabelle1974
I think it belongs in the general forum precisely because there ARE demos who don't share the information with their customers, or like the one I mentioned, try to convince customers it is intended to be that way. By keeping it in the demo forum, you allow demos like this to continue to behave this way and for customers to feel like these very issues are being kept secretive in the demo forum so that sales don't suffer!
guess what? has not happened in our demos forum so it is a moot point.
When demos have issues from customers (lie about a product or problems) demos get as upset as customers if not more so. WHY? Because they do not want to sell things people are unhappy with.
Period.
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:07 AM   #169  
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I don't understand what it is that has not happened in the demos forum that you are referring to.
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:10 AM   #170  
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I will not be posting further this morning because it appears to me that some are being obtuse and purposely twisting my words. It is their misconceptions that hang in the air and since I am unable to make you understand, it is best I not add fodder for misconstruing.
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:11 AM   #171  
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By keeping it in the demo forum, you allow demos like this to continue to behave this way and for customers to feel like these very issues are being kept secretive in the demo forum so that sales don't suffer!
nobody is doing that
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:12 AM   #172  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by annabelle1974
I am fortunate enough to have a demo who announces at each club which products she will not sell us (her choice) because she feels that they are not up to standards. When she received 6 or 7 pads of a certain shade of red a couple of years ago, that the color was off, she suspended us from ordering that color until she was sure the problem was fixed. When 2 of us (including me) ordered Cool Cat and got it with bubbled rubber, she asked people not to consider ordering it until she had assurance that the problem had been fixed. She discouraged us (and still does) from ordering the ink pads due to the problem of them sagging after a bit of use. We instead order reinkers and get blank pads and are all much happier with that. On the other hand there are some demos who defend these products to the death telling customers that they are just too picky or that the products are intended to do these things. One local demo actually told her group that the sagging of the pads was to allow for a special stamping technique and that they were made to do that.

I am sure these things happen in every company. I am not saying that SU tells demos to do this, but we know that sometimes demos DO do this. So when we talke about "unsatisfactory" product I do think an honest demo will be upfront instead of defending their company as infallible. By having a demo who does this I have formed trust. The other demo has no idea why people drop out of her 10 clubs to move to the other demo's clubs. It is about being more concerned about happy customers than money. Focusing on the money has caused it to backfire for the less than honest demo.
You know, I've heard this thing about sagging ink pads quite often and my usual thought was....

Just as I've always known that not wearing a bra would cause the girls to go south, I've always figured that when I have a piece of felt filled with ink with a linen cover whose center is repeatedly depressed and banged by enthusiastic stampers (including me!) that the center of that pad might sink in just slightly after I used it a while. So when people said "sagging pads" I always thought, "Maybe they are just mashed a bit?"

So, imagine my astonishment that when I went down just now to do a survey of my ink pads I couldn't detect much, if any, of this "sagging" going on in my SU! pads. I looked at my oldest and most used pads like Real Red and found no real sagging center...they were a bit uneven (by maybe 1/16" here and there) but there was no sag to speak of.

Well, I reasoned...maybe because I've used these a LOT and have inked up many many stamps on these pads that they have gradually equalized? So I went to some pads which were either newer and/or little used colors and found exactly the same thing....they looked newer, but the even-ness of the inking surface was pretty much the same front to back.

I even looked at the new color pads I received last year when I did have some quality issues with the pad surface being uneven and which ink pads I did send back and receive some that were still uneven. Ya know what? They were flatter than when I got them!

"What's going on here?" I said to myself. "I've been a demo for three years now and my pads get constant use...surely mine should be sagging far worse than any customer's pads! And the pads that might have gotten the same use that a customer might give them...those aren't sagging either?"

So I decided, having put on my scientific lab coat to make this really official and stuck a mechanical pencil or two in a nerd pack in my pocket and putting on a studious expression...where was I? Oh, yes, I decided to go into the storage room where I keep my NON-SU! pads from way way back before I became a demo...I still have 'em and have quite a lot of them. Since only SU! pads are supposed to experience this problem, all of these should be perfectly flat, right?

Sorry to burst anybody's bubble about SU!'s bad horrible ink pads, but the ones in the storage room ALL sagged. I had Memories ink pads, DJ Inkers, you name it, I had them. They were almost all sagging in the center, pretty much WORSE than any SU! pad I have and I have to say, ladies, that I've used these far less than I used any SU! pad in my collection. There were only a few that were flat and those were pads that had a thinner felt than most, which would stand to reason, i.e. less fibers to compress means less compressed fibers. I also have to conclude that the pads that were sagging were probably a bit dry, so it's natural that they curl a bit at the edges, perhaps? Hard to tell...the thicker ink pads all had a dip in the middle, though.

So what is the secret to the SU! pads not being that saggy, since we can assume this is a problem that ALL dye-ink pads can suffer from? I thought it might just be the use of a brayer on ink pads...by using a brayer, I might be evening out the surface of my ink pads. I had a brayer that I used before on my non-SU! ink pads, but I pretty much confined that to the rainbow pads, not the solid colors.

But since I haven't really used a brayer on every single SU! ink pad in my collection, I have to reject this conclusion and come to the only sensible one: ink pads may sag in the middle with a bit of use, but by repeatedly using the pad, not only the center, but the corners and edges of the pad by use of the brayer or by inking up background stamps where you put pressure on the entire pad or by using larger stamps that naturally press down on more of the surface of the pad, and by keeping the surface well inked so that the edges do not lift and curl, the surface of SU! ink pads WILL go back to or retain their original fairly flat condition. And I say fairly because a lot of pads with a thinner felt pad WILL be flatter. But folks...they don't hold as much ink, so you are going to have to reink those puppies a lot more often. Ink pads like SU!'s and others with a thick piece of felt that holds a lot of ink will continue to have a somewhat uneven surface.

So when I hear of demos like Annabelle1974's that tell their customers NOT to buy SU! ink pads because they sag...I have to wonder how much time those demos really gave these pads to prove themselves? I'm all for being upfront and honest. Right now there are issues with the Stampin' Scrub, for instance. One of the discussions in our "secret demo forum" is when the heck is this going to be fixed and what should we tell our customers? Can I let you in on a secret? Almost to a woman, every single demo has said, "I tell my customers to wait to buy this item until the problem is resolved" or "I let customers who order this know that if they are not satisfied, that I will get them a full refund even if it comes out of my pocket." Yep...we are a lot of tricksy, evil demos, gollum, gollum!

SU!'s return policy really rocks! They are willing to take back anything on quality issues, they pay for the postage, and keep my customers happy. Certainly if my customers were not happy with their ink pads, I would send them back, but I would first inform them that over time the pads DO equalize and that time and plenty of ink is all that is required to resolve this problem. And if my customers got bubbled rubber on any sets, I would return them myself to get a new set for them. I've never gotten a set with a flaw in it, but SU! has been willing to send out replacement rubber for ANY problem I've ever had. They even replaced a missing block on a set that one of my customers bought from another demo years before and she couldn't be sure if it had not been there to begin with or if it had just fallen out since she had received it. SU! replaced it anyway. How cool is that?
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:22 AM   #173  
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Old 07-21-2006, 07:56 AM   #174  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by annabelle1974
I think it belongs in the general forum precisely because there ARE demos who don't share the information with their customers, or like the one I mentioned, try to convince customers it is intended to be that way. By keeping it in the demo forum, you allow demos like this to continue to behave this way and for customers to feel like these very issues are being kept secretive in the demo forum so that sales don't suffer!
See here is a perfect example of what one person thinks...I have not experienced sagging pads...so why would I inform my customers not to buy them based on one person's experiences...as with any products from any place you can have a bad batch of things...in the stamping community there might be things that are a bit off or someone gets a defective product every once in awhile...that happens all the time with stuff you buy from stores...
the issue is not that demos are "hiding" problems...it is just many many many demos don't experience the same problems as other demos do...maybe that demo got a defective item...
Personally I would never discourage a customer from buying a product unless I know there is a bonafide widespread issue with it. I have my personal opinions about some things I sell - there are some things I just don't like (like pastels - personal opinion - not just SU's - any chalks or pastels - can't figure out how to use them so they look good)...if asked for my opinion I am honest...
But quite frankly like I said before words are powerful - think about it - your demo doesn't like using SU pads because they sag to her disliking (like I said I haven't noticed this to an extent it has disrupted my stamping and I have had some pads going on 3 years now) - so she tells her customers this - her customers tell others they meet and so on and so forth...things get twisted and next thing you know people are saying SU pads are inferior because they sag and all the demos know it but they push and sell them anyway...
If one of my customers came to me and said "I heard SU pads are bad because they sag" I would honestly answer "I have never had that problem and after using other store bought brands of stamp pads I prefer SU ones" - from that point on it is up to my customer to make their own decision.
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:05 AM   #175  
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Jan - have I told you lately that I love you?? lol
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Old 07-21-2006, 08:49 AM   #176  
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Originally Posted by Jenmouer
... so when a product you are trying to sell is badmouthed the first thing you want to do is defend it like a baby - and there is nothing wrong with that... just because you don't like something or have a problem with something doesn't mean everyone else will or does...
I have to disagree with this statement. Why should anyone's first instinct be to take it personally and get defensive when someone says they don't like this or that product from SU? Is that really healthy? Would one want one's daughter to have the same behaviour about inanimate objects like American Girl dolls, Girl Guide cookies, or what have you? We're not talking about the Shroud of Turin, or the Mayan pyramids here; we're talking about INK PADS, STAMP SETS, etc. If I say in a thread I don't really care for the In Colours and think that they aren't very classy, why should demos flock to that thread in GenPop and get all defensive over it to try to: drown out my voice by burying my post under threadjacks about their manicure; prevent others from agreeing with me in the thread by targeting a tempest in a teapot at me, and; prevent me and others from saying anything like that again because I'll know that I'll just get yelled at for being "so negative"?

Yes, we all have the right to respectfully share our opinions on this board, but it seems to me sometimes the courtesy afforded to those who state how happy they are with this or that object from SU isn't necessarily offered to those who are unhappy with something. Nobody goes into a thread about which new BG stamp to get first and gives those posters grief for buying into SU's marketing plan. Believe it or not, annabelle, jpmayo, and myself don't rally each other behind the scenes to 'deal with this problem' when the 'problem' is people stating their personal preferences and opinions about crafting supplies.

I do agree with the last part of your statement, though, and the converse is true as well. Just because some folks don't like this or that SU thing, doesn't mean everyone else won't, and just because you like this or that product, doesn't mean that other folks will too. I wish we could let statements about preferences remain at that, rather than trying to control the content of the GenPop boards. If we did that, I would bet stamps that the thread that kicked off this whole circus would be sitting back on page 5 after we all aired our opinions in a calm manner. Instead, a whole lotta folks jumped in, made a stink, took comments about a CATALOGUE personally, tempers got riled, and some folks got so huffy that they said (paraphrasing), "Well, I never!! I'm glad none of my customers are like YOU!" Statements like that make it feel like 'demo vs. customer' around here, I tell ya.

That's all again JMHO. I'm sad to see that things got so out of hand, and I'm glad for folks like Consuelo and Britta who've been trying to return some perspective. I just had to speak up for hopefully the last time after seeing some comments about how "it's okay that I take statements about SU personally!" and "I talk freely to other demos about my likes and dislikes, but boy if a customer does it I don't like it, just like I joke with my Irish family about being Irish but boy if some outsider does it they better watch out!" In the latter case, to me the two things are NOT the same at *all*.

Peace out!
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:18 AM   #177  
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Jan, that is exactly the point we are trying to get across...just b/c it has not happened to you, does NOT mean it hasn't happend to other people. I wouldn't stoop to calling customers a liar about issues that are beyond their control. If ONE customer has an issue with quality, SU has an issue with quality.

I think you made the point better than I ever could as to demo vs. customers on here...thanks! Look at how your reacted when Annebelle said her pads were sagging...all defensive and "well, MY pads don't do that, so how could yours possibly be sagging??"

THAT is what we are talking about....
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:23 AM   #178  
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to clarify:

I do not stay up nights wondering what goes on in the demo forum... it was a tongue in cheek comment but I forgot you cannot see my tongue... or my cheek.
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:49 AM   #179  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by sassyat30
Jan, that is exactly the point we are trying to get across...just b/c it has not happened to you, does NOT mean it hasn't happend to other people. I wouldn't stoop to calling customers a liar about issues that are beyond their control. If ONE customer has an issue with quality, SU has an issue with quality.

I think you made the point better than I ever could as to demo vs. customers on here...thanks! Look at how your reacted when Annebelle said her pads were sagging...all defensive and "well, MY pads don't do that, so how could yours possibly be sagging??"

THAT is what we are talking about....
Huh?
As a customer, I read Jan's post. It never said annabelle or anyone else was a "liar". It didn't even imply it. She explained in a very funny way a possible explanation for "saggy" pads and how to un-sag them by using background stamps or brayers or re-inking. Her post also addressed the issues of quality and how SU! WILL take care of those issues. AND, she was funny about it.
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Old 07-21-2006, 10:16 AM   #180  
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Originally Posted by Mahloumel
I have to disagree with this statement. Why should anyone's first instinct be to take it personally and get defensive when someone says they don't like this or that product from SU? Is that really healthy? Would one want one's daughter to have the same behaviour about inanimate objects like American Girl dolls, Girl Guide cookies, or what have you? We're not talking about the Shroud of Turin, or the Mayan pyramids here; we're talking about INK PADS, STAMP SETS, etc. If I say in a thread I don't really care for the In Colours and think that they aren't very classy, why should demos flock to that thread in GenPop and get all defensive over it to try to: drown out my voice by burying my post under threadjacks about their manicure; prevent others from agreeing with me in the thread by targeting a tempest in a teapot at me, and; prevent me and others from saying anything like that again because I'll know that I'll just get yelled at for being "so negative"?

Yes, we all have the right to respectfully share our opinions on this board, but it seems to me sometimes the courtesy afforded to those who state how happy they are with this or that object from SU isn't necessarily offered to those who are unhappy with something. Nobody goes into a thread about which new BG stamp to get first and gives those posters grief for buying into SU's marketing plan. Believe it or not, annabelle, jpmayo, and myself don't rally each other behind the scenes to 'deal with this problem' when the 'problem' is people stating their personal preferences and opinions about crafting supplies.

I do agree with the last part of your statement, though, and the converse is true as well. Just because some folks don't like this or that SU thing, doesn't mean everyone else won't, and just because you like this or that product, doesn't mean that other folks will too. I wish we could let statements about preferences remain at that, rather than trying to control the content of the GenPop boards. If we did that, I would bet stamps that the thread that kicked off this whole circus would be sitting back on page 5 after we all aired our opinions in a calm manner. Instead, a whole lotta folks jumped in, made a stink, took comments about a CATALOGUE personally, tempers got riled, and some folks got so huffy that they said (paraphrasing), "Well, I never!! I'm glad none of my customers are like YOU!" Statements like that make it feel like 'demo vs. customer' around here, I tell ya.

That's all again JMHO. I'm sad to see that things got so out of hand, and I'm glad for folks like Consuelo and Britta who've been trying to return some perspective. I just had to speak up for hopefully the last time after seeing some comments about how "it's okay that I take statements about SU personally!" and "I talk freely to other demos about my likes and dislikes, but boy if a customer does it I don't like it, just like I joke with my Irish family about being Irish but boy if some outsider does it they better watch out!" In the latter case, to me the two things are NOT the same at *all*.

Peace out!
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Old 07-21-2006, 10:26 AM   #181  
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Originally Posted by JanTInk
You know, I've heard this thing about sagging ink pads quite often and my usual thought was....
*snip*
"What's going on here?" I said to myself. "I've been a demo for three years now and my pads get constant use...surely mine should be sagging far worse than any customer's pads! And the pads that might have gotten the same use that a customer might give them...those aren't sagging either?"
*snip*
Sorry to burst anybody's bubble about SU!'s bad horrible ink pads, but the [non-SU] ones in the storage room ALL sagged.
*snip*
So when I hear of demos like Annabelle1974's that tell their customers NOT to buy SU! ink pads because they sag...I have to wonder how much time those demos really gave these pads to prove themselves?
Sorry, Jan, but you really seem to be trying to call into question Annabelle's experience with sagging ink pads, trying to suggest they have ridiculous expectations of the ink pads, and don't give the pads enough time to prove themselves. This comes across as defensive to me. Obviously the stamp group Annabelle stamps with HAS had issues with the ink pads, and they have come to a solution they are all happy as clams with, so I don't quite understand why you wrote the treatise on how perfect your SU pads still are after three years of demoing and DDing. A short, sweet statement about your experiences, and a well wish for getting her SU products replaced would have come across as a lot less condescending.

Now I'm off to work! And when I get home hopefully will make some cards! Even I'm getting sick of my opinion now! :^)
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Old 07-21-2006, 10:49 AM   #182  
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Originally Posted by annabelle1974
She discouraged us (and still does) from ordering the ink pads due to the problem of them sagging after a bit of use. We instead order reinkers and get blank pads and are all much happier with that. On the other hand there are some demos who defend these products to the death telling customers that they are just too picky or that the products are intended to do these things. One local demo actually told her group that the sagging of the pads was to allow for a special stamping technique and that they were made to do that.
I am sure these things happen in every company. I am not saying that SU tells demos to do this, but we know that sometimes demos DO do this. So when we talke about "unsatisfactory" product I do think an honest demo will be upfront instead of defending their company as infallible. By having a demo who does this I have formed trust. The other demo has no idea why people drop out of her 10 clubs to move to the other demo's clubs. It is about being more concerned about happy customers than money. Focusing on the money has caused it to backfire for the less than honest demo.
Ok just to point out here - annabelle said HER demo discourages her from ordering pads due to sagging...so I take this to mean annabelle hasn't used true SU pads and therefore has taken the word of her demonstrator that the SU pads sag...
Jan was trying to point out that in her years as a demo she has heard from others of pads sagging but has never really experienced it to the exclusion of others...meaning that while hers show a small dip in the pad itself it is no different than any other stamp pads from different companies she has purchased in the past...her post wasn't making excuses for anything just merely pointing out and giving another view to a particular problem...
It is perfectly acceptable to give an opinion on something but you have to be prepared to accept another persons point of view...so if someone doesn't like say puppies...you have to realize that someone else out there LOVES puppies and will be more than happy to explain why they LOVE puppies and can do so - and yet you still get to hate puppies...it is when people make generalizations because of an incident or a problem that it becomes a problem - i.e. your friend with brown eyes hates puppies so therefore everyone with brown eyes hates puppies - unfortunately this is what sometimes happens with home based demonstrators...just because something might hold true for one demonstrator doesn't mean it holds true for all.
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:12 AM   #183  
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I have lots of stuff sagging........but my ink pads look good
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:53 AM   #184  
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Originally Posted by Jenmouer
...just because something might hold true for one demonstrator doesn't mean it holds true for all.
*Exactly*. Dozens of demos not having ANY issue with sagging ink pads does not mean others have not. If a customer says they've had issues with saggy pads, accept their statement at face value and leave it at that, no matter how hard you find that to be based on personal experience. I'm sure annabelle and her demo did not expect the Spanish Inquisition when they found their ink pads were performing poorly for them. (But then again, nnnnnoooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!)
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:10 PM   #185  
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Originally Posted by Mahloumel
Sorry, Jan, but you really seem to be trying to call into question Annabelle's experience with sagging ink pads, trying to suggest they have ridiculous expectations of the ink pads, and don't give the pads enough time to prove themselves. This comes across as defensive to me.
The problem being that Annabelle doesn't have ANY sagging ink pads from SU! because her demo told her not to buy them. It's my opinion that Annabelle's demo has done her a big disservice by dissuading her from buying SU!'s ink pads by portraying them as uniquely defective and/or always defective...this sort of disinformation is just as harmful to customer relations as "pushing" bad product, which I certainly don't do. And according to Annabelle, HER demo says the pads are bad, so the implication is that automatically every other demo who sells them does so with deceit in their hearts, trying to pull the wool over the eyes of innocent customers.

I could get pretty hot and bothered by the insinuation (and I am not the only person who reads between the lines of Annabelle's posts, as you can see), but it may amaze you to read that I was merely curious when I read her statement, not defensive at all. I'd heard people say this before and really wondered if there was anything in it. If I was being defensive, I just would have said that I had no problems with my pads, but since I was curious as to whether this was true (gotta admit...I don't look at my pads everyday to gauge their sagginess or their flatness (my butt is another story entirely), I just use 'em! ), I actually left my hot toast with peanut butter to go and look at my pads (toast got cold...), both SU! and non-SU!

And as I reported, I found that the non-SU! pads sagged much more when you compare pads of similar thickness. My SU! pads are not sagging and I also have to add: I have never had a customer complain about their ink pads sagging or any other problem. Not once. If they had, I would definitely have sent them back. So I simply reported these FACTS. If my pads had sagged, I would have said so. They don't. End of story. Some of my pads are 3 years old, some are 2, some are 1 and I have my new In Color pads as well, so I have a wide sample.

As far as Annabelle's demo, I just have to wonder how much money her customers have saved...first they have to buy a blank pad (which if this demo is promoting and/or selling those they are going against their demo agreement, but that is another thing entirely) plus they have to buy a reinker, which if they are filling a whole pad with that they are going to need a new one fairly quickly. So the demo sells 2 reinkers from SU! instead of one pad and a reinker...but the customer still buys the blank pad (hopefully from someone else) which costs something like $2.99 (and I won't tell you what shipping was on just ONE pad from the site I looked at...let's just say it cost MORE than the ink pad itself...even buying 4 pads, I would have to pay 50% in shipping!). So instead of a $7.45 purchase (before S & H and tax) through SU!, the customer spends $7.99 buying a blank pad and two reinkers. I don't see any money savings there. And from my personal experience, if they had bought SU! pads in the first place and kept them nicely inked and used them they would have not had any problem with "sagging" at all. If they had, they can return them postage free within 90 days (unlike the other company that sells the blank pads...you pay to send them back and you have only 15 days).

I have no problem whatsoever with people saying they don't care for the new colors (hey, we have 48 other ones to pick from...bound to be something they like) or that they don't care for the stamps in the Holiday mini (there's a great big wonderful catalog that has more stamps to choose from)...after all, someone is bound to like them and I haven't noticed my sales lagging even when there are folks up here in the GPOP (I love how that sounds just like a prison, don't you? ) who say they don't like this or that...so frankly, variety pleases me...not everyone is going to like everything. If SU!'s stamps were tailored to just one set of tastes, I certainly would sell a lot less, which would mean less stamps for me...and that also means less stamps for me to use teaching my customers (which believe me I enjoy much more than selling them stuff), so you can see it's not just all about me.
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:26 PM   #186  
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Originally Posted by Jeanne S
I have lots of stuff sagging........but my ink pads look good
bahahaha!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:29 PM   #187  
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I have never posted in a thread such as this one before, but I have read and learned a lot!!!
It is so funny this has been an issue for the last couple of days- I am going through this right now at home. I had email my demo stating my opinion, and it was completely taken the wrong way. (My email was sent before this thread was started, so this thread had nothing to do with my situation.)

I guess some Demo's forget where SU! ends and they begin. It is not a personal attack on you in any way if the customer does not like a set, color, or what have you.

I worked in Sales for years, and my co-workers were there to support me. If a customer had a need I was not providing for someone else could help me out, and ultimately "we" would sell the product. I think this is one of the problems with SU!, there is no consistancy from one demo to another. We customers come here and "compare notes" which leaves us feeling as if we are left in the dark. I understand that each Demo has her own business, and she is free to run it however she sees fit. But, Please don't take it personally when other's opinions are not your own.

(I hope you get what I am trying to say. My baby is coming in 5 days, and I am having preggo brain something terrible.)
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:37 PM   #188  
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JanTInk
The problem being that Annabelle doesn't have ANY sagging ink pads from SU! because her demo told her not to buy them. It's my opinion that Annabelle's demo has done her a big disservice by dissuading her from buying SU!'s ink pads by portraying them as uniquely defective and/or always defective...this sort of disinformation is just as harmful to customer relations as "pushing" bad product, which I certainly don't do. And according to Annabelle, HER demo says the pads are bad, so the implication is that automatically every other demo who sells them does so with deceit in their hearts, trying to pull the wool over the eyes of innocent customers.

I could get pretty hot and bothered by the insinuation (and I am not the only person who reads between the lines of Annabelle's posts, as you can see), but it may amaze you to read that I was merely curious when I read her statement, not defensive at all. I'd heard people say this before and really wondered if there was anything in it. If I was being defensive, I just would have said that I had no problems with my pads, but since I was curious as to whether this was true (gotta admit...I don't look at my pads everyday to gauge their sagginess or their flatness (my butt is another story entirely), I just use 'em! ), I actually left my hot toast with peanut butter to go and look at my pads (toast got cold...), both SU! and non-SU!

And as I reported, I found that the non-SU! pads sagged much more when you compare pads of similar thickness. My SU! pads are not sagging and I also have to add: I have never had a customer complain about their ink pads sagging or any other problem. Not once. If they had, I would definitely have sent them back. So I simply reported these FACTS. If my pads had sagged, I would have said so. They don't. End of story. Some of my pads are 3 years old, some are 2, some are 1 and I have my new In Color pads as well, so I have a wide sample.

As far as Annabelle's demo, I just have to wonder how much money her customers have saved...first they have to buy a blank pad (which if this demo is promoting and/or selling those they are going against their demo agreement, but that is another thing entirely) plus they have to buy a reinker, which if they are filling a whole pad with that they are going to need a new one fairly quickly. So the demo sells 2 reinkers from SU! instead of one pad and a reinker...but the customer still buys the blank pad (hopefully from someone else) which costs something like $2.99 (and I won't tell you what shipping was on just ONE pad from the site I looked at...let's just say it cost MORE than the ink pad itself...even buying 4 pads, I would have to pay 50% in shipping!). So instead of a $7.45 purchase (before S & H and tax) through SU!, the customer spends $7.99 buying a blank pad and two reinkers. I don't see any money savings there. And from my personal experience, if they had bought SU! pads in the first place and kept them nicely inked and used them they would have not had any problem with "sagging" at all. If they had, they can return them postage free within 90 days (unlike the other company that sells the blank pads...you pay to send them back and you have only 15 days).

I have no problem whatsoever with people saying they don't care for the new colors (hey, we have 48 other ones to pick from...bound to be something they like) or that they don't care for the stamps in the Holiday mini (there's a great big wonderful catalog that has more stamps to choose from)...after all, someone is bound to like them and I haven't noticed my sales lagging even when there are folks up here in the GPOP (I love how that sounds just like a prison, don't you? ) who say they don't like this or that...so frankly, variety pleases me...not everyone is going to like everything. If SU!'s stamps were tailored to just one set of tastes, I certainly would sell a lot less, which would mean less stamps for me...and that also means less stamps for me to use teaching my customers (which believe me I enjoy much more than selling them stuff), so you can see it's not just all about me.

Slightly off subject question. What is meant by sagging? Now that I think about it some of my pads slope in the center, they are sort of sticking up over the edges but the center, in general, is really flat compared to the sides, is this "sagging"? It doesn't cause any problems when stamping but maybe it would in the future? Thanks!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:42 PM   #189  
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Originally Posted by Lisadwb
I have never posted in a thread such as this one before, but I have read and learned a lot!!!
It is so funny this has been an issue for the last couple of days- I am going through this right now at home. I had email my demo stating my opinion, and it was completely taken the wrong way. (My email was sent before this thread was started, so this thread had nothing to do with my situation.)

I guess some Demo's forget where SU! ends and they begin. It is not a personal attack on you in any way if the customer does not like a set, color, or what have you.

I worked in Sales for years, and my co-workers were there to support me. If a customer had a need I was not providing for someone else could help me out, and ultimately "we" would sell the product. I think this is one of the problems with SU!, there is no consistancy from one demo to another. We customers come here and "compare notes" which leaves us feeling as if we are left in the dark. I understand that each Demo has her own business, and she is free to run it however she sees fit. But, Please don't take it personally when other's opinions are not your own.

(I hope you get what I am trying to say. My baby is coming in 5 days, and I am having preggo brain something terrible.)
Makes me wish I was pregnant some days...my brain has no excuses anymore!

I don't take it personally. But I could easily turn around and say that customers who state opinions seem to take it personally when demonstrators disagree with those opinions. Annabelle doesn't buy from me, so why should her personal opinions about products matter in the least to me? But when she makes these insinuations that in general we are all plotting in the demo forum to sell bad products to customers and that's why we don't want customers to see it...you can see that this might be..er...a bit inflammatory? I'm rather amused by the whole thing, myself. Annabelle might say she is as happy as a clam with the way her demo does things, but why is she so curious about what we talk about in the demo forum? Things that make you go, "Hmmmmm....."
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:42 PM   #190  
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Originally Posted by Jeanne S
I have lots of stuff sagging........but my ink pads look good
*snicker*

I don't have a whole lot to say on this subject - Jan and others have taken care of that for me - and have said it *way* better than I ever could!!
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:46 PM   #191  
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Originally Posted by Jeanne S
I have lots of stuff sagging........but my ink pads look good
ROTFL!!!

Just to add my own experience - I have @60 SU pads ranging from a few months to 5 years old. I have craft pads that are so old they were still using the same linen/felt as the classic pads. I use brayers almost never, and only recently started using large background stamps. At least half of the pads have survived from my newbie stamping days where I smashed all stamps, small-medium sized (all I had at the time), right smack dab in the middle of the pad with LOTS of force. That would ink it up better, right? <laugh> Two of them sag in the middle. Gee, they're retired colors that I don't have reinker bottles for, and are nearly dried out. Time for the trash...

Okay. Start again. I have @58 SU pads ranging from a few months to five years old, all with current reinkers, and none of them sag.

That's my personal experience with SU pads. This is not meant to represent anyone else's experience other than my own, nor is it meant to disparage anyone else's experience or tales they've related...
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:49 PM   #192  
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Originally Posted by 2stamp4fun
Slightly off subject question. What is meant by sagging? Now that I think about it some of my pads slope in the center, they are sort of sticking up over the edges but the center, in general, is really flat compared to the sides, is this "sagging"? It doesn't cause any problems when stamping but maybe it would in the future? Thanks!
If the sides of your pads are curling up, all that means is you probably need to reink them.

I believe what Annabelle is describing ( which I don't know how she can if her demo has never sold her one) is a genuine dip in the very center of the pad, something I've never observed in my SU! ink pads, but have seen in other pads. This might happen if a stamper only used the very center of the pad and put a lot of pressure in that spot (I wish some of my customers would listen when I tell them they don't need to mash the stamp as hard as they can on the pad!) then they might get compression of the felt in that one spot, but it certainly is not a permanent condition. It would probably happen with pads that are thicker...Versacolor pads and Vivid ink pads, for instance, have felt that is about 1/2 the thickness of most ink pads and so they do tend to be flatter. But ink pads are a squishy thing...when you push on them, any surface differences (as you have observed) are equalized and you will get good inking no matter what as long as you are moving the stamp around to get even coverage.

I have to wonder if the "sagging" isn't sagging at all, but the sides of the pad rising due to lack of moisture. That would explain why my old non-SU! pads look this way...the center would be the last place to dry out in an ink pad so logically the sides would curl before the center was affected. I haven't reinked these pads in a long time...mostly can't since it would be impossible to find a reinker for most of them.
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:55 PM   #193  
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Originally Posted by JanTInk

I have to wonder if the "sagging" isn't sagging at all, but the sides of the pad rising due to lack of moisture. That would explain why my old non-SU! pads look this way...the center would be the last place to dry out in an ink pad so logically the sides would curl before the center was affected. I haven't reinked these pads in a long time...mostly can't since it would be impossible to find a reinker for most of them.
See that's what I noticed. I've had maybe 2 ink pads "sag" (out of almost 100 pads) and it was driving me nuts. I added ink - let them sit - and now they're fine. The only ink pad now that the edges are slightly (and I mean like 1/16 of an inch) higher is my black - and I use that one a lot - and it's taken a real beating w/ me (especially when I first s tarted stamping ) and all my customers and friends using it. Heck I've had it for over 2 years and it's been used nearly every day - so really it's time to get a new one! :d
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #194  
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Originally Posted by JanTInk
If the sides of your pads are curling up, all that means is you probably need to reink them.

I believe what Annabelle is describing ( which I don't know how she can if her demo has never sold her one) is a genuine dip in the very center of the pad, something I've never observed in my SU! ink pads, but have seen in other pads. This might happen if a stamper only used the very center of the pad and put a lot of pressure in that spot (I wish some of my customers would listen when I tell them they don't need to mash the stamp as hard as they can on the pad!) then they might get compression of the felt in that one spot, but it certainly is not a permanent condition. It would probably happen with pads that are thicker...Versacolor pads and Vivid ink pads, for instance, have felt that is about 1/2 the thickness of most ink pads and so they do tend to be flatter. But ink pads are a squishy thing...when you push on them, any surface differences (as you have observed) are equalized and you will get good inking no matter what as long as you are moving the stamp around to get even coverage.

I have to wonder if the "sagging" isn't sagging at all, but the sides of the pad rising due to lack of moisture. That would explain why my old non-SU! pads look this way...the center would be the last place to dry out in an ink pad so logically the sides would curl before the center was affected. I haven't reinked these pads in a long time...mostly can't since it would be impossible to find a reinker for most of them.
Thanks for the tip. I just started stamping in Febuary, do you think they need re-inking already?? Darn, I hope not since I don't even have all the ink pads (very close) so I definitely haven't even thought of buying re-inkers...will have to investigate further but you know what? Several of my SS pads seem very dry to me and have ever since I got them but I just thought that I didnt know anything about them so I must have been wrong about them being dry, maybe you are on to something!
Ok, I'm sorry for taking this off subject again...
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:04 PM   #195  
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Thanks for the tip. I just started stamping in Febuary, do you think they need re-inking already?? Darn, I hope not since I don't even have all the ink pads (very close) so I definitely haven't even thought of buying re-inkers...will have to investigate further but you know what? Several of my SS pads seem very dry to me and have ever since I got them but I just thought that I didnt know anything about them so I must have been wrong about them being dry, maybe you are on to something!
Ok, I'm sorry for taking this off subject again...
Hey, that's okay!

I've noticed that the SS colors do tend to dry out quicker (maybe there is some chemistry or physics major who would know what that is...). A lot depends on the humidity in your house, where you store your pads and how often you use them. Well-loved colors probably need to be reinked every 6 months or so, colors you use less often can go as long as a year and sometimes longer before they need reinking. So having started in February, it's very possible that your pads simply need to be reinked, since it's been almost 6 months.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:06 PM   #196  
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Ok, thanks! My demo has all the reinkers and i'll see her Sunday so I think i'll aske her about it and see if she will reink one for me to see if that is the problem and them add reinkers to my "need" list!
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:09 PM   #197  
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Hey, that's okay!

I've noticed that the SS colors do tend to dry out quicker (maybe there is some chemistry or physics major who would know what that is...). A lot depends on the humidity in your house, where you store your pads and how often you use them. Well-loved colors probably need to be reinked every 6 months or so, colors you use less often can go as long as a year and sometimes longer before they need reinking. So having started in February, it's very possible that your pads simply need to be reinked, since it's been almost 6 months.
Six months?? Wow! I've had all my ink pads for almost four years and I've never had to re-ink any of them...some of them are still too juicy to use!
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:11 PM   #198  
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Six months?? Wow! I've had all my ink pads for almost four years and I've never had to re-ink any of them...some of them are still too juicy to use!
Are you sure it's not because you're squishing mosquitos in them?
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:14 PM   #199  
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Ok, thanks! My demo has all the reinkers and i'll see her Sunday so I think i'll aske her about it and see if she will reink one for me to see if that is the problem and them add reinkers to my "need" list!
Sounds like a plan! Luckily reinkers are one of the cheapest things we sell!
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:15 PM   #200  
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Are you sure it's not because you're squishing mosquitos in them?
Now, obviously I have missed something here....
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