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Old 08-24-2010, 08:47 AM   #1
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Default Sharing Digi's is Stealing!

I wanted to discuss this in this forum because the folks here obviously love digi's as much as I do. I came across this message on the Greeting Farm blog and was seriously dismayed Splendid Stamping with The Greeting Farm: Digital Images: FYI and a Winner .

While I still love my rubber and clear stamps and the smell of ink etc I started my digi collection for two main reasons; the savings and the savings...oh I said that, the instant gratification. Really it's all about the savings.

I don't know how many times I've seen on the sites I purchase from not to share files and then to read that communities have been set up for exactly that purpose is just nuts. I've even seen recently people stamping images only available in rubber and scanning them into their computer and selling the print outs.

I live by myself on an extremely small budget, I don't get to purchase all the time, even a $3 digi. I've been working on my Copic collection for two years and barely own enough to use. I have one set of Nesties someone bought as a gift and covet the ovals but I don't share my digi's. We have to be fair to the artists and the companies or this much less expensive, quicker, and easier option may dissappear as quick as it gained popularity. Please from one digi lover to another be respectful of the companies wishes and don't share your digital files.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:58 AM   #2
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Suppose that will put a stop to image swaps here on SCS ?
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:55 PM   #3
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Of course it's stealing but how is it not stealing to stamp some rubber images and give them to people? People request images all the time and get them but I don't see any company threaten to stop selling their stamps because of it.

Someone once sent me a digi image which I had asked a question about. I could not in good conscience use it and refused it. I then went and bought it from the company because I understand that if I want an image, I need to pay for it first.

Sharing ANY image is stealing and I think that should be the message rather than targeting digi users.
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
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There is a difference between stamping an image and sharing a digital file. A stamped image is one image (or whatever the agreed upon number is) a digital file is as if you copied the rubber stamp and gave it to someone cutting out the company. The message is not to give your digital files away rather encourage people to purchase the file themselves.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:15 PM   #5
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I totally agree Diana that digi files should be purchased and never shared.

But I disagree with you on the rubber images. So it's okay to stamp an image and send it to me. When it is not okay? When you send 5 of an image, 10 of an image, etc.

Or is it okay to buy a digi image, print a copy and send that to someone snail mail? See how all the areas become grey? It should not be okay, period.
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:41 PM   #6
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I have to agree with Laura on this. Sharing images (either digital or with a stamp) is the same thing.
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:48 AM   #7
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Mo Manning of Mo's Digital Pencil addresses this very clearly. sharing ANY images is passing along copyrighted material and therefore illegal. so the swapping of images is considered copyright infringement when it comes down to it. she says that the majority of people who do it just truly do not know that it is wrong.
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Old 09-01-2010, 06:53 AM   #8
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So just for clarification, from the powers that be here on SCS, will image swaps be discontinued?
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:01 AM   #9
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I am the owner of a small digistamp company and agree it is very wrong to share digital files. But I personally don't have a problem with someone printing out a couple of my images and giving those to a friend to use. But like I said I do NOT agree with sharing the file. That is stealing as it was never paid for by the person that received the shared file.

I used to participate in the PIF thread here on SCS, and that is the reason why I now own numerous Penny Black stamps and some other stamp companies too. Does anyone know what most stamp companies policies are on these pay if forwards? I know Sugar Nellie (I believe) had a thread here at some point when they first became a member company, saying they don't have a problem with PIF's but I don't know any other company's policies on that.

I am also the creator of digital tuesday challenge, and I can assure you that when stamp companies give us images to use we only email the images to the designers who actually will use their stamps for the challenge. If the designers do not want to use their images they will not receive the files.

This is a great topic, it is good to be out here for everyone to read, because some people might just not think about it as stealing but will realize it is after reading this.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:53 AM   #10
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there is a thread about this someplace here at SCS where many of the stamp company owners chimed in that they didn't want their stamped images shared. I will have to track it down for you...... but it will have to be later in the day, sorry. off to do a bunch of errands. I am sure it is either in the digi or general stamp threads....
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:45 AM   #11
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ohjenView Post
there is a thread about this someplace here at SCS where many of the stamp company owners chimed in that they didn't want their stamped images shared. I will have to track it down for you...... but it will have to be later in the day, sorry. off to do a bunch of errands. I am sure it is either in the digi or general stamp threads....
I remember this thread. It was HAMBO stamps that did NOT want their stamps to be shared for Wish RAK or PIF. THat has been respected as its their wish.

BUT for Wish RAK there is a set limit on what we send - 6 images.
I have bought so many many stamps and have turned into a customer at numerous stamp companies because of Wish Rak and PIF.
So there are benifits to it also ans not just bad things.

Now for digi's - YES I think it is very very wrong to share a file of a digi image. A few images given though will create new customers for that company.
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:50 AM   #12
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I used to do the image swap myself. one of the reasons I became so addicted to House Mouse & Bellas. and with my wealth of SU! stamps, I think I shared hundreds of them with people and didn't mind at all. but I stopped after learning of this. I sure didn't want any company upset with me.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:03 AM   #13
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I once participated in an image swap. The images were so poorly stamped that I ended up purchasing my own stamps. So I do agree that participating in a swap can lead to more exposure and sales.

I do think there is a big difference between sharing a few images (limited images) and sharing an electronic file (unlimited images, unlimited users). But if the company has a policy or preference, it should be abided by.
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:26 AM   #14
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it is the stamped images being discussed, not the actual stamps themselves.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:08 AM   #15
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Thank you ladies so much for addressing this. I think most people don't realize that it's a copyright violation or how much it hurts artists. Hopefully digital stamping will keep growing and become more popular, but file sharing is a huge problem for us. It takes away so much of our business when we're still trying to get digital stamping on the map.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #16
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no prob. we'd all be in a heap load of trouble if we couldn't give actual stamps as gifties!
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:00 AM   #17
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Thank goodness for digital stamping companies! I think it's great that you can satisfy the ever-present need for instant gratification while you save money and support artists!

I think artists and crafters should always research and respect the rules of the companies whose images they are using. That's a consumer responsibility, as it always has been with Angel Policies, policies of direct selling companies etc. If there's one thing the art community is known for I think it's that respect of other people's artwork and ownership of it.

Many companies allow the trade of, but not the sale of, stamped images. Many companies do not allow either. Again, that's the responsibility of the purchaser of that image.

So of course we allow swaps, but it's up to each of you to respect and honor the policies of the companies whose images you buy. Our swap forum runs on the honor system and will continue to..

Thank you for bringing up these important issues and talking about them. It's great to see our community's thoughtfulness about copyrights and art in general.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:48 AM   #18
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Thanks so Much Lydia !
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Old 09-19-2010, 12:37 AM   #19
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What you are discussing here is often called an "Angel Policy" in the stamp designer world.

Each designer has their own policies on how their work is used.
Here is a copy and paste of a better description for you about Angel Policies:

"Copyright is particularly pertinent to rubber stampers as the images replicated on stamps are typically designed by someone else. The originating artist may wish to protect their designs and how they are used. An Angel Policy is a limited license that specifies how the stamped images can be used.

Most Angel Policies allow the use of stamps to create hand crafted items for sale, providing that the images are hand stamped and not mechanically produced. Individual companies will have varying degrees of restriction. For instance some companies will state that the stamp may only be used to create products sold in craft fares and markets and not over the Internet or in permanent shops.

The types of restrictions that a stamp company may wish to apply include:
•Number of items made
•Places that items are sold
•Copyright statement required
Angel companies or companies with Angel Policies will define this on their website or in their catalog. If there isn't a web page headed 'Angel Policy', other places where an Angel Policy might be listed include FAQs and About Us.

Important Note: These policies are not designed to inhibit the creative output of stampers and in fact help protect the hand stamping business, by ensuring that stampers who want to sell their hand crafted products can do so without the fear of competing with mass produced versions of the same image. It also protects the designers ensuring that they can continue to provide a wide range of interesting and innovative designs.

Also Known As: Copyright, limited license"

Hope this helps everyone to better understand.

I would like to thank Stampinscrapind for starting this topic. As a designer I know it can be frustrating to see hours, days and sometimes weeks of work that go into designs get passed along with no return for the amount of work put into them. I don't think many people realize how much work does go into them. It's not just a matter of draw a quick pic and your done. It's nice to see that so many of you have respect for that.
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:37 AM   #20
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New around here but not to the digital world....
There are different laws governing digi stamps and rubber stamps. Digital stamp is considered to be a non comsumable item it can NEVER be used up. A rubber stamp is a consumable item which means eventually it will be used up. If you use a rubber stamp and stamp 6-10 images and send them to someone those 6-10 images will eventually be used up for their intended purpose of stamping. They are exhausted which means that eventually if the person wants more they will have to purchase the rubber stamp. Digital Stamps fall under the digital millennium copyright act. They are never exhausted. If you pass on digi stamp from user to user the original copyright owner gets cut out of the deal ALWAYS. It is this reason that digital items have different laws set up to protect them. This is the reason that artist that create art digitally seemily have more of say in how their can be used and for what purposes. However if you like whatever company, you should use their images and art whatever medium they are in as they request it be used it is only good manners.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:08 PM   #21
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It definately is a grey area. I for one feel if you purchase a digi download then that file should remain with you and no one else. However if you want to share a few of the images with a friend in a swap or something then only send a few and include the information where you got it from, so if they like they can purchase it themselves.
Same with the rubber stamps, you purchase for your own use. well what if you choose to want to swap images, it's not like your creating a file and giving it to them as a digi, your simply only giving them a set amount of images like 6 or so to try out. as well same thing should happen share the image for them to use and inlude the company and name of the stamp so if they like it they can purchase it.

because if its illegal to share images then wouldnt be wrong to do even card workshops simply because you would be sharing a few images. thats how us who just started making cards learn new techniques and layouts.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:42 AM   #22
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It really isn't a grey area at all. It's the law. That's pretty black and white to me.

It goes hand in hand with pirated movies and software. You buy the movie, you use it. You don't make copies of it and distribute the movies or sell them.
Even making copies of movies to give away to friends and family is still illegal (despite the fact that many people do it anyways).

As for workshops and sharing.... that would be like you inviting people over to watch the movie at your house with you. That's OK because the possession of the movie is still with you. You aren't giving copies of the movie to each person that watched the movie with you as they go out the door. In a workshop you are using the image to share only once. You aren't giving everyone a copy of the file to send home with everyone as they leave (at least you shouldn't be). They are taking with them the one image they used once in making the card or item for that workshop.

It's called a "limited license". When you purchase the digi stamp you are really only buying the license to use it within the perameters of the licensing agreement (ie if the creater of the stamp says "no" then no means no, it doesn't mean "well.... at your discretion"). Some digi stamp licenses have more lee-way than others (ie some want you to actually give credit to the creater of the stamp when you use it, others do not) but you still should be adhering to any instructions or angel policies that go with each digi stamp.

Otherwise, it's stealing.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:48 AM   #23
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I totally agree that sharing digis is stealing. Digital designs are fairly lost cost items. If you like them, then they are worth paying for. Please be aware that the designer has put considerable time and effort into creating that file for you. Well-done digital files take time and talent to put together. We need to support these designers if we value their art otherwise it won't be worth their while and everyone loses out. Trust me...no one is getting rich off digital design. Please pay close attention to the terms of use.

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Old 10-24-2010, 01:20 AM   #24
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All very interesting, lots of different views but all seem to agree that sharing digis is stealing.

I guess it comes down to conscience doesn't it because there's no way it can be policed.

Another thought..... do you think that maybe the artist has factored in the sharing possibility which then determines the price of said digi?
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Old 10-28-2010, 07:06 AM   #25
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I can't speak for other artists, but I myself do not factor that into the price. I do know that my work, no matter how well it is watermarked will still be stolen from time to time. It's just something you have to accept. But I still have faith that there are many honest people out there willing to pay for the effort put into them.

It can take me up to 10 - 12 hours over a course of a couple of days (as an estimated average... it all depends on the complexity of the design) to make a digital stamp. In Canada minimum wage is about $10/hr. Say I sell my stamp at about $2.00 ......that would meant that I would have to sell my design 50 - 60 times before I would even begin to make a profit from it. And unless you have gone big time, with your stamps and are known nationally or internationally.....it can take a very long time to sell a design that many times. So yeah, it wouldn't be worth someone's while to continue making them if they get stolen all the time. However, if it is something you enjoy and you have another day job to pay your bills, then you can do like I do and make them on the side.

The only things I really factor into the price are, the complexity of the design, how long it takes me to make, and whether or not I have added verses to go with my design. I sometimes sell mine with about 5 -10 verses to go with the image. So I will charge a little more because the buyer is getting some extra flexibility and added value with the digi stamp.
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