I am so miffed!!!

[camsmom]

I just got another demonstrators newsletter forwarded to me from a customer. This demo lives in NE, while I live in MD. I guess she assumed that I would never see the newsletter, because she took a card I had posted on this website and put it in her newsletter without asking my permission, and without crediting it to me. I also noticed she has a card by Lana as well. I do not know this woman, and can't beleive she would not only put artwork without contacting the creator, but then not give them credit.

I know the SU policy now allows artwork to be downloaded, but this was not from SU, it was from here. I guess I just work hard to be honest, and when I CASE (even if it is changed but got the idea), I try to credit the original designer.

I am sure she would be none to pleased if I just took her newsletter and put my artwork in it, and to me it is the same thing.

[ohjen]

I am so sorry that you have been hurt by one of the people from this wonderful sight! It makes me sad :( to think that someone from here would do that intentionally. We all share ideas, but do try to credit the person who originated the idea.

Just know that you are appreciated by a large number of splitcoast members!

Jennifer

[camsmom]

I have no issue with someone copying my card and making their own, and many have asked to post my things to their website and I always say yes b/c I think it is very flattering. I certainly copy the ideas of others, but always try and give credit, and I would never cut and paste a card and send it to any customers.

I love this site and love the sharing that goes on here between EVERYONE. I guess I am more upset b/c it is being done in a business sense and being sent to customers. It is not going to make me have a bad feeling towards SCS, (I don't think anything could do that!) it just is irritating.

Thanks for the sweet words Jennifer!

[scrappin'stamper]

I agree that was not right!!!

I think SU has changed their policy for borrowing cards from their website for demonstrator webpages!!

I am sorry for you!

-Andrea

[JulieHRR]

I don't know that this helps, but I now watermark all photos of my creations to help avoid this happening, and it HAS happened to me, too.

I even contacted the demo'r directly and requested she remove the photo of my work from her site, as she'd copied and pasted it without permission, and without crediting the true artisan . . . she never replied. She had also done this to another demo'r, and probably many more that don't even realize it!

If she had only asked out of courtesy and offered to credit me as the artisan, I would have considered allowing that . . .

Unfortunately, there are many unethical folks out there, and once you put something out on the internet, it is considered "public" domain, altho I don't understand why . . .

I've also heard there's a way to "lock" your online photos so people can't do this, but I have no idea where to get this, if it's software, or what . . .

I'm sorry you have been a victim of this person's unconscionable behavior. . .

[camsmom]

She also has cards on her customer newsletter taken from this site from Karen Gephart and "ilove2stamp2001", as well as Lana and myself. I have just started doing my name when I do the SU copyright thing since I am getting ready to start my own on-line gallery.

The card is not on a gallery she can remove, it has already been sent to all of her customers.

Oh well, I e-mailed her and she probably won't write back, but I will be more careful. I am pretty calm about it now, and have been stamping and making up my own ideas to vent. That is the best medicine!!! :P

[melmel]

I notice though that when you click on a card in this gallery, it gives you the option to send it as an ecard. I'd never done it before, but aftewr reading this post, I thought, hmmm, and went and tried sending one to myself just to see what happens. When the ecard comes up it just shows the card but does not show any info about the member who made or posted it, so probably a good idea to always attach your name to the photo like Julie suggested...

[purplewinkle]

Camsmom,

She should not have done that. You may know this, but it was a compliment to your artwork. I am NOT excusing her in anyway, but I am hoping that this makes you feel a teeny bit better. She liked your work enough to copy it. HTH

[mhthorpe]

I can understand your feelings. Your cards are beautiful and you should be recognized! I'm glad you have made me aware of this, even though I don't have a newsletter, etc. I am aware for the future, just in case!
I am relatively new to this site so I am not sure how you find the "real name" for many of you to give you credit. Is there a way?
Thanks!

[alasku2stamp]

While I think on some level I would think this is a compliment, on another, I would think that we should give credit. Public Domain or not.

I also do not agree that SU should be allowing demos to upload someone else's work to thier websites. As a customer,I would want to see what my demo has done. Does she/he know her stuff? Do I waste my time with this demo or try to find someone who can truly help me? But I digress...

Julie, Her Royal Rubberness, how do you watermark your work? Do you mind sharing that with us?

I too sent the Clown Flushing card to another group I am on b/c I just had to share but I didn't notice what info it sent.

[JulieHRR]

Yes, I can share how to watermark on my eMac--I'm not familiar with how to do it on a PC . . . I would suspect that people who own Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 can do it easily, from what I've heard, so if you own that program, investigate the watermark in your user's manual or help.

It is my understanding that using Adobe Photoshop Elements to watermark your photos is probably one of the EASIEST ways to do it.

My way, is probably much more complex, but works, until I can buy the Adobe software . . . .
I had to do it this way:

I had purchased some software from www.yellowmug.com which designs neat little software programs for Macs and they are relatively inexpensive and very easy to use. The software I ordered is called EasyBatch. I'll explain what it does in a moment.

Now, to create the watermark, I used my AppleWorks program and in the DRAW format, I typed a text box as I wanted it to appear, selecting font, size, centering it, etc. I then copied it, opened the PAINT format, and pasted it into there. In PAINT, I could then resize it to certain pixels to get the size you see shown in my current watermark. I did have to experiment to see what the end results would be, until I got the size I wanted.

The watermark has to be saved as a .png file, and not as a jpeg. When it is in .png format, it can be drug into the watermark "well" of the Easy Batch Program and in there, you click on buttons to determine it's location on the photograph, and the opacity of it . . .

Once that is done, the watermark itself is ready to go.

After I take my photos and download them to the computer into iPhoto, I can drag the photos, which are in jpeg format, into the photo well of Easy Batch. Easy Batch has buttons that enable me to determine overall kb size, etc.

I select all the photos I want to watermark and reduce in size and drag them into the photo well, and Easy Batch takes it from there.

I store them in a folder on my desktop and then upload THOSE watermarked photos into my gallery and SCS.

I'm sure the above sounds confusing--I'm not a computer whiz and just followed the steps for the software I bought. I highly recommend buying Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 and am planning to get it myself as I think it would be easier than what I'm currently doing, altho, it sounds more complex than it really is.

[alasku2stamp]

Whoo Hoo! My dh would love to get Adobe so this will be a good excuse for me to say "hey darlin', why don't you go ahead and get the Adobe program." hehehe Thanks Julie. Your instructions were great!

[mikage99]

Julie,

Does the watermark you add go across your entire image? I found an example (not of your cards) and the example watermark was so large that it seemed to 'distort' the image too much. Where do you choose to put your watermark?
TIA,
-m

[veramats]

Hey everyone, since I use a scanner, would it just be appropriate to place a small piece of paper at the bottom of the card that has my name and SU's copywrite info?

Would that cover Angel policy as well as piracy?

As for your aggravation with that other demo, I'd just chalk this one up to experience and figure out a way to watermark or whatever to make sure it can't happen again. The only way I'd get irritated is if a demo in my town did this.

I think that I very often copy ideas without realizing it. I see so many great cards and when I go stamping, I'm very often using those ideas subconsciously.

Vera

[christih]

I know you can do a watermark in Paintshop Pro also.
And even if you scan it with the piece of paper under/over the card, someone could just crop that out before they upload it.
I can't believe someone would just put artwork on a site and not give credit!:shock:

I download alot of the cards from here to a directory on my harddrive, but I would never put them on a website promoting myself as the artist!

[camsmom]

Thanks for the great ideas. I have just strted to put my name with copyright stuff on the cards here, and I will be checking into doing a watermark so it is not quite so obvious. At least I do try and color coordinate them LOL.

scrappin'stamper I have a ?-did SU change their policy regarding using Stampers' Showcase work onto your own webiste? Last I heard you were able to take the images and use them. I would love it if that policy were changed and you could only use your own artwork.

The woman did e-mail me back saying that she recreates the cards and sometimes people e-mail them to her, so she did not know where she got them or who made them to credit the person. PUH-LEEASE! The cards from this site were EXACTLY the same as on her newsletter-shading, tilt of items, placement of embellishments. And I would be surprised if a customer just happened to send 4 cards from this site without telling her (or wothout her asking) where the cards originated.

Oh well, I'll just chalk that up and be flattered since the other cards she took were wonderful, so I am in good company at least!

[JulieHRR]

I don't have issues with anyone CASEing my artwork (actually re-creating their version of it with their own two hands)--I find it highly flattering. I think most of us do?

What I and others take issue with, is someone "copying and pasting" a photograph off this site or any other, that features someone else's actual artwork, into their website or business promotion literature, WITHOUT requesting permission and without CREDITING the actual artisan--they are falsely misleading viewers and customers into believing it's their artwork.

On the issue of public domain or not, I could NEVER, in good conscience, take someone else's photo of their art work without permission and without proper credit and use it in any fashion.

To me it is akin to theft and theft is certainly not flattering anyone in any way. That may sound like a harsh view, and it is strictly my personal opinion/view--others may disagree with me. :shock:

[neighbor_nancy]

I use MS Picture It! Premium to add/paste the text for the copyright line (from a Word document I've saved so I don't have to type it in each time).

However, I recently found copies of my cards with the copyright info removed. The individual had asked me if they could post a few samples, I was flattered and said sure. A couple of months later, I was surprised to see some of my most recent samples on her site - with my full name on it and my copyright info removed (although she HAD attributed these samples to me). Due to security reasons, I rarely post samples with my full name - preferring instead to put Nancy K. in my copyright info. As soon as I found out, I contacted her and she removed my full name from the site quite graciously.

What I learned from this (and a few other experiences along the way) is that if I really want to have control over my samples for security reasons I shouldn't post them at all. Since I cannot imagine doing that, I think I have to be less worried/paranoid about it.

I attribute some of the previously mentioned faux pas the others have mentioned in this thread to the notion that there really aren't any clear norms or rules that crafters consistently follow. As a result, people don't know what MY "rules" are either. Go figure! :o

I am to trying learn how to let these things go and not get my shorts in a bunch quite as often. Does it still bug me? Yup. It does. Like I said, I'm still learning! The first thing I'm doing these days, however, is giving the benefit of the doubt and contacting the other person first. 90% of the time they just didn't realize it would be upsetting to the original artist.

Good luck!

All my best,

Nancy

[rlayton]

I think a discussion similar to this was posted a month or so ago. I continue to be confused about the whole thing. I would never take a picture from this site and claim it as my own or post it anywhere. I do, however use this site for inspiration. I most often change cards and use them for my classes or workshops. It is hard for me to understand what other reason there would be for anyone to post if they didn't realize that others would see the cards and copy them. Is the problem that they are using them on a website without credit? Or do the artists of these cards not want me to use some similar design in a workshop without crediting them?
I look at the gallery every day. I sometimes print out a card I really like to use, but most often I stamp later and I am sure I use the inspiration of many cards and come up with something I like. Why else would I look at all these posts if not to be inspired?
Could someone post the RULES? I love this site and would hate to never be able to use all the wonderful ideas that are here.
Roberta

[neighbor_nancy]

I think that may be part of the problem, Roberta - there really aren't any rules. Many of us have preferences, and that makes it hard, particularly for newbies.

I think one issue that is being discussed most often is that some stampers are copying the images posted here and on our personal sites. Then they are posting to their own websites or to handouts and not giving the originator credit. We all get inspirator from the artwork, and many of us (including myself!) copy and paste to personal files. I also copy the source information (i.e., the origator's name and the url or website address) when I copy an image. If I CASE something, I can give credit to the originator when I post my card to my own website, for example. Not everyone does this, but I'm applying a form of the Golden Rule here - that I'd want someone to credit me if they copied and stole everything from my design. The thing is that I've not registered my artwork (nor do I believe I could do it since the stamps themselves are the copyright of SU) and it isn't illegal to do what we're taking issue with.

Does this help at all?

Nancy

[JulieHRR]

Roberta,

It's not a matter of "rules" per se, as much as it is "etiquette"--COURTESY is probably the best word!!!! Our society as a whole seems to have lost the meaning of the word . . . sadly . . .

If you CASE a card, give the original artisan credit, whether you use it in a swap or post it online.
If you want to use a photo of someone else's work, ASK them permission first. If it is granted, be sure to credit them as the artisan of that work.

That's really all there is to it . . . and then everybody's !!!!

[neighbor_nancy]

I think Julie has done an excellent job of putting it succinctly! Thanks, Julie! I agree 100%

Nancy

[mara]

Hi all!
This is my first post. I am causally replying to the discussion on the demo who used other people's artwork without proper credit. I do not do this so that I will receive tons of emails...so please if you disagree with me just let it stay at that.

I am doing the reply so that there is a bit more understanding for the entire topic. While not crediting someone for an image is not necessarily acceptable, you do not know that the person who did it, did so under malicious thoughts. Could it be that the image was GREAT and was shared and when sent did not have the creator's name? Someone else suggested as much.

We are in the business of sharing and that was what the person did. Did she intentionally state that the image was created by her? If so, then it was malicious. If not, then it could have been a lack of sharing knowledge..

Either way, it is GREAT that someone told her the reasonable expectation. I would just say that you don't know the person, as stated. You told her your feelings. You informed her of what your reasonable expectations are..and hopefully there was a lesson learned. I just hope you weren't too harsh. Gosh, we are supposed to be sharing. That is why we post and why we create. I just hope one err doesn't beget another one.

[scdecker]

Cam's Mom,
In a situation like this, my grandmother would quietly point out that not everyone has had the same benefits of a good upbringing that others of us have. While it definitely rankles to have your work go uncredited, at least, as ytou say, it was with good company, and hopefully everyone can learn a bit. I think Julie HRR has done a wonderful job of expressing appropriate expectations on use of samples posted to the site.
Sorry you were hurt in the process.

Mara - the whole point of sharing is for others to get ideas to try their OWN hand at things.

[camsmom]

To the author of the newsletter who is responding to this post:

I did not list your name here (nor will I know) as being the person who sent out the newsletter out of courtesy, and since you want to make sure I am "not too harsh" I will bite my tongue a bit.

Just to be clear on my feelings I will quote what Julie so clearly put earlier:

"It's not a matter of "rules" per se, as much as it is "etiquette"--COURTESY is probably the best word!!!! Our society as a whole seems to have lost the meaning of the word . . . sadly . . .

"If you CASE a card, give the original artisan credit, whether you use it in a swap or post it online.
If you want to use a photo of someone else's work, ASK them permission first. If it is granted, be sure to credit them as the artisan of that work. "
And here is my addition to make my own personal feelings more clear:
Do not use other people's artwork on your newsletter or site without their permission. If you don't kow where the art came from, ask. If you can't find out whose it is, and therefore don't have permission to use it, don't send it out to your customers. Better yet-come up with your own and show your customers what YOU have made. Your customers deserve that.

[ilove2stamp2001]

Okay, I had one of my fantastic donwline members email me this thread. Looks like someone has taken one of my cards and put it into a newsletter? Well, first of all - I find that hugely flattering. Second of all - I EXPECT to be credited for the card. Like Julie said, being CASE'd is the highest form of flattery, but I post my cards on here to share the ideas - NOT for others to take my work and use it for THEIR customers' benefit. I work hard on all of my ideas, I take the time to stamp the cards, put the money into purchasing all of the materials, and then take the time to scan them and upload them to this fantastic site! Please take these things into consideration when thinking about using someone else's artwork. I'm sure we would all agree that this site is a fabulous resource. But let's not take advantage of it. Thanks!

[camsmom]

SCDECKER-you are completely right! I am flattered, and I love when someone says they got inspiration or directly CASE'd one of my cards. :lol: I am a fan of CASE'ing, just not a fan of the cut and paste shortcut :!:

Your post reminded me of a Miss Manners column! Thanks!!

[LunarLana]

Hi Everyone! Again a hot topic! And it's funny to me that this came up. I just got home from a weekend trip today and received an e-mail from my 5th upline. It was basically a forward from someone to her in which she had cards from SplitCoast. There were several of my cards pictured on this e-mail. The e-mail was sent to the entire team of hundreds of people. My name was not on it and I did not get credit for my work or acknowledgment that I was a member of the team. Someone else basically took it upon themself to share my work for me. So. . . I go back and forth on this one. I share because I love to share with people. I love the feedback from people. Then things like this happen. I can understand how these things happen. My 5th upline probably doesn't even know where the photos came from.

All I can say is this: If people do not use common courtesy when using other people's work, they will soon be finding these awesome creations disappearing from websites. I have seen it before and unfortunately I'm sure we will all see it again. I know several terrific stampers who do not post or share their work any more because of this issue. No one is saying that you can't CASE or use their work. Just please use common courtesy and try to credit the people who probably spent a lot of time coming up with the idea in the first place and were willing to share it with everyone.

As for me, I will now be posting my name on the cards I make. I'm not sure it will make much differece though. Unfortunately this will always remain a hot topic and there are always going to be people out there that do not care if they use good values in their stamping lives.

Okay I feel better (I think).
Lana

[cathy maxwell]

Question:

How or where should one mark a CASED card for a swap?

Cathy

[veramats]

I just thought of a question. I often copy cards from this and other sites to put into a favorites folder for me to look at later when I'm stamping.

If I were to some day have a gallery of my own as a demo and post some of my favorite cards, how do I track down who made it? Many cards I save onto my desktop have no name on them and months later I can't track down the artist. Should I just say that another artist created it and I found it somewhere on SCS?

Or, should I just recreate it, scan etc.?

Just thinkin' ahead, let me know what the consensus is!

Vera

[Laurie FW]

Sometimes this can happen unintentionally. I CASED a card and wrote it on the back and sent it as a RAK to someone on this site, who posted it (under RAK's) and credited it to me and didn't put that I had CASED to to begin with! I was horrified and told the person I had CASED from (my demo) about it and she didn't mind, but I really did! Now I am afraid to send out RAK unless I am 100% the artist of the card, which for me is usually retired sets!

[camsmom]

Veramats-if you were to have a gallery, you should get the creator's permission directly from them. If you save a card I would save their name along with the card and their e-mail so you could check with them if at a later date you wanted to post their card. If you don't have their permission, I would err on the side of caution and not post it. (just my opinion, of course!)

If you CASE it and post it, it is great to have the original creator's name, but at the very least say you cased it from a card on _________ site.

If you send a RAK of a CASE'd card (how many more acronymns could we get?), maybe in the comments you can say you CASE'd it from ______. That's a good ?

[love6kids]

Laurie~ I have the same concern. I have hesitated to join a RAK for that reason. I would hate to have someone think that I have copied their sample without giving credit, even though I always state it with the "recipe" on the back.
I honestly don't care if someone uses my design, but I really don't want to be accused of using someone else's improperly. For this reason, I have not participated in very many RAK's!
~Alicia~

[Yvette]

As I've gotten into sending RAK cards, I've decided that the safest way to make a card is to use SU!'s Inspiration Sheets and go from there. That way I know if I'm CASEing something, it's from a source that was meant to be CASE'd.

Yvette

[veramats]

Thanks Camsmom for the response. I guess I'll just create my own for my future gallery. I love to stamp anyway, so creating my own is no burden!

By the way, I know that RAK means random act of kindness, but what does it mean to join a RAK?

If I did ever submit a card to SCS or any other site, I'd have to say that all of my stamping has been heavily influenced by hundreds of stampers! Who knows what my subconcious will CASE! :lol:

Vera

[camsmom]

I wanted to say Thanks to all that have posted their opinion. I love this site, and have gotten some private messages about continung to post even with the very limited number of people that do copy/paste. I have also received pms from others concerned about their work being used w/out permission, and possibly not posting b/c of that. I think Julie stated guidleines we should remember the most clearly, and I will just let you check what she wrote since it was said so well.

Here is my 2 cents about RAKs- I would not care if someone copied my card for an RAK since they are not using it to promote their business, they are using it to promote kindness and letting others feel special, and that is my goal whenever I send any card. I hope that those of you sending cards don't hesitate to send something b/c it is not 100% your own idea. Everyone CASEs the ideas here in one way or another-even if it is ribbon placement, or color combinations you may not have thought of before. I knwo I love looking at the new posts for that reason. If they didn't, then no one would look at the art galleries and comment on the wonderful artwork and expressions of creativity. In my little mind I feel using CASEd ideas for RAKs or personal use is completely different than using them in a business type format.

[Cate]

I understand the bit about using cards and not creditting for business,and would be miffed if someone else took credit for card I had worked hard on.

BUt ...
What if you come up with something and then find something very similar in a gallery?

For example: I was playing around with the new "Ladybug Picnic" set and found that the 2 bugs under the flower fit neatly onto a large square metal edge tag. Brilliant, cool, great for a swap. Then I found SCS through comments of SD, did a Google search and joined. Went onto galleries and found ... card with ladybugs under flower on metal edge tag.

Personally, at demos, workshops and stamp camps I always credit others if a swap card is admired and like the way Julie put it so beautifully. However, as an SU demo there are really only certain embelishments that I can use and sometimes "great minds think alike"

I know the beginning of this thread was a specific example of not giving due credit. It's just a question.
Cate

[Cambria]

Okay... so I'm so scared to even post on here since the last time I did, I was totally flamed, but, as said, Julie summed it up really well. I also agree with Camsmom about using CASE'd cards for RAK's. If you are making a card and sending it to someone, I don't feel you need to confess that it was CASE'd.... at least that is my opinion. As Demonstrators, we are speaking of artwork on the internet, newsletters, swaps, etc. If you are going to upload something to this site and it was CASE'd, I feel like you should say it was CASE'd or inspired by, or give the original artisan some kind of credit.

As for mentioned above with the metal edge tag.... that isn't CASE'd in my opinion. CASE'ing is usually when the whole card is the same, not using the same image on a tag, or taking an idea you saw somewhere and making something of your own with it.

The thing that bothers me is what Lana brought up. When you sit and create something (and there is a lot of awesome talented people on this site and others), it takes time and effort and I think we all agree it is awesome when someone likes it enough to "CASE", BUT, it also is really hurtfull when someone else takes that image that you have so openly shared and takes credit for it. By using that image without consent from the original artisan or simply stating who the artist is, you are actually giving others the impression that it is your work. You take away that person's will to share..... IN MY OPINION. I know that last month when I posted a comment about CASE'ing for newbies to let them know it is standard amoung demos to state when things are CASE'd, it was tremendously hurtful when people flamed me and accused me of wanting to copyright my images and of not sharing. If I didn't want to share, I wouldn't be uploading them to the internet.

Wouldn't it be a shame if those who were CASE'd didn't post anymore? Then Splitcoast wouldn't be as great as it is.... right? So, if you are uploading something to the net and you CASE'd it, just try and say so, and if you are a demo and are CASE'ing ask permission if possible, or at least post a name. As for ME, I would NEVER take an image and use it without permission in a newsletter or on my website (unless it was a swap card, but would still credit the artist). I totally understand how Camsmom felt......it is hurtful. If you are just sending grandma a card and you want to copy it from the net.......don't tell her if you CASE'd it from me!

Hope everyone had a wonderful 4th of July holiday...... I'm glad to be back!

[mhthorpe]

I find this forum very interesting but it disturbs me and saddens me also. I HOPE no one stops posting on this site! Your beautiful cards excite me and inspire me so! Camsmom, Lana, Beate, JBalcer, and many more, you have a wonderful artistic gift and to be able to share that with others must be so rewarding. To not share it would be somewhat sad--like keeping it under a basket. Always know you are appreciated.
I completely understand your feelings about being copied and not being credited. It is not fair and it is disrespectful. You are justified in feeling this way and I hope no one ever does that again and I hope I never do that unwittingly. I just hope no one would do it maliciously or selfishly. For some reason I don't think "stampers" are the type of people who would do that. If they do, it has to be a sign of insecurity and that shows up inevitably anyway!
But THANK YOU to all who participate here. It is a joy to visit this site and to lose any one of you would be quite a loss.
If it is of some consolation, just know that everyone wants to copy a Rembrandt, Van Gogh and Michelangelo. You sure don't hear a clamor for an original mhthorpe! Ha!
Mary

[Jenmouer]

I would be miffed to....

It is one thing to CASE a card - meaning you put your time and energy and supplies into actually making the card vs. just taking an image off of the net.

If you do take an image off of the net and don't know the name of the person you should at least credit the site to which you found it - ie www.splitcoaststampers.com

If the image was sent to you - and you have no idea where it came from or who did it - the answer is simple - don't use it...

I do agree 2 people can have the same idea and use the same colors - I have done some cards using the ornament wheel and before I uploaded mine I looked in the gallery and I'll be darned if someone didn't have the same idea, right down to the colors as I - if you put them side by side they would not be "identical" but you would have thought maybe one of us CASED each other - which is just not possible.