|
| |
|
Splitcoaststampers.com - the world's #1 papercrafting community |
|
|
You're currently viewing Splitcoaststampers as a GUEST. We pride ourselves on being great hosts, but guests have limited access to some of our incredible artwork, our lively forums and other super cool features of the site! You can join our incredible papercrafting community at NO COST. So what are you waiting for?
Join the party at Splitcoaststampers today! |
|
|
01-19-2009, 10:17 AM
|
#1
|
Hardware Hotshot
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US--midwest
|
cuttlebug and angel policy
I just want to hear everyone else's opinion on this. I purchased 3 cuttlebug folders, and then found out that their angel policy is not really good enough for me. I want to make cards and be able to sell them whereever I wish to. Not that I really have any time right now to do that, but maybe someday I will. I will not be purchasing their products anymore! (SU sizzix texture plates-here I come). I am so glad I bought the big kick instead of the cuttlebug, I just will not invest my money into things I won't be able to use the way I wish to.
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 10:21 AM
|
#2
|
Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TX
|
This is the same reason I don't buy from some stamp companies, even though their images are adorable.
__________________ -Lorie-
.��*.��*-:�:-.��*-:�:-- .��* .��*
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 10:38 AM
|
#3
|
Matboard Maniac
|
:eek: I didn't know about that, so had a search and here's a link to explain the legalities for anyone who's interested.
http://www.provocraft.com/company/le...gel.policy.php
That will certainly make me think twice before I buy anymore.
I do use my sizzix texture plates a lot but there are some designs that they don't have that I would like.
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 10:43 AM
|
#4
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweeeetttt home Alabama
Posts: 13,447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Yeah it's REALLY strict and if selling is important to you, not worth it!
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:15 AM
|
#5
|
Splitcoast Dirty Dozen
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northumberland, UK
|
Spellbinder's policy is similar so if selling is important to you then you might want to think twice about Nesties etc as well. They don't have the restriction that ProvoCraft do on mixing with other people's products (personally, I think that's the real killer - I could make and sell a card with CB embossing and die cuts but not if I include a stamped image on there) but they do have the "limited and local" clause in there. The Spellbinder policy is on their customer service page here.
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:26 AM
|
#6
|
Insane Embellisher
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rural WI
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Wow...this really bites...so, if I understand this correctly...I may NOT sell a card with a CB embossed folder and a stamped image layered over it?
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:30 AM
|
#7
|
Glitter Queen
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lens, northern France
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by BellegirlWow...this really bites...so, if I understand this correctly...I may NOT sell a card with a CB embossed folder and a stamped image layered over it? |
Really???
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:31 AM
|
#8
|
Crimping Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
So what if you use other ProvoCraft products- like the expression. Make up card kits to sell- using die cut cricut stuff- is that "illegal" too?
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:32 AM
|
#9
|
Insane Embellisher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northeast Massachusetts
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by Fanny de LensReally??? |
basically, that's the gist of it.
__________________ Ashley
former SU! Demo, taking a break. but i'll be back soon enough.
new fan club member! supporting the site i love so much.
my etsy shop ;; my blog
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 11:59 AM
|
#10
|
Splitcoast Dirty Dozen
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northumberland, UK
|
Quote: Originally Posted by 3girls1guySo what if you use other ProvoCraft products- like the expression. Make up card kits to sell- using die cut cricut stuff- is that "illegal" too? |
The policy doesn't mention anything about selling die cuts etc, it only deals with handcrafted goods. I guess if you sold the kits with the rider that the finished cards were for personal use only you might be OK but you might want to check that out if you do any amount of it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Fanny de LensReally??? |
The Provo Craft policy says:
2. Any craftwork to be sold must not incorporate third-party copyrighted material. The craftwork must contain only Provo Craft products that are sold under the Provo Craft trademark.
A stamped image would be third party copyrighted material so I don't see a way to do it. Same for DP - it's copyrighted so that would be a no-no too. I'm glad I don't make to sell, what a headache trying to get your head round this lot!
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 12:30 PM
|
#12
|
Compulsive Stamper
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Wow! and not in a good way. It never occurred to me that I couldn't sell handcrafted cards that I make using both the embossing folders and the nesties. Makes sense to not allow the commercial operation, but the little amount of selling of handmade cards? To me, it is a complement to these companies that the crafter uses their products to make beautiful cards, LO, etc. Am I wrong?
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 12:42 PM
|
#13
|
Hardware Hotshot
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US--midwest
|
I didn't know about the nesties! Glad I only bought 2 sets! It's a shame:( , they are so much fun!
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 02:59 PM
|
#14
|
Splitcoast Dirty Dozen Alumni
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 3,607
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
I think it is ridiculous that so many of these crafting companies put restrictions on the use of their products. Afterall, one is not going to make a fortune selling anything handcrafted and as far as I am concerned, it is free advertisement for the companies when you use their product to make your crafts.
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 03:23 PM
|
#15
|
Mad Swapper
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by WestiesI think it is ridiculous that so many of these crafting companies put restrictions on the use of their products. Afterall, one is not going to make a fortune selling anything handcrafted and as far as I am concerned, it is free advertisement for the companies when you use their product to make your crafts. |
Very well said! I agree 100%.
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 03:29 PM
|
#16
|
Polyshrink Goddess
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Well that stinks.
__________________ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 03:34 PM
|
#17
|
Glitter Guru
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas
|
How do they know? Is there a police force for craft shows? I swear they are taking all the fun out of this. They should be glad their product is selling right now!
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 04:09 PM
|
#18
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by WestiesI think it is ridiculous that so many of these crafting companies put restrictions on the use of their products. Afterall, one is not going to make a fortune selling anything handcrafted and as far as I am concerned, it is free advertisement for the companies when you use their product to make your crafts. |
If you want to use art images you didn't design, you're just gonna have to deal with it or come up with your own stamp line. Welcome to the wonderful world of copyright law and intellectual property!
Sorry to be so blunt, but people come on here and whine about this all the time. The reason that these companies make money from their intellectual property is that they have the legal right to determine how their work is used.
__________________ Rachel
Proud SU! demo and Sci-Fi Geek!
My Stampin' Up! blog
"I'm a time traveler -- I point and laugh at archaeologists." 10th Doctor, "Silence in the Library"
|
|
|
01-19-2009, 04:12 PM
|
#19
|
Glitter Guru
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas
|
All I am saying is if they make it so tough then why buy the product???? I do not sell anything I make but it really does not seem right. I won't buy anymore of their product, that's for sure! Seems like in a soft economy they would be THRILLED to have anyone buying!
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 06:06 AM
|
#20
|
Pearl-ExPert
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 2,589
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by 53queenbeeHow do they know? Is there a police force for craft shows? I swear they are taking all the fun out of this. They should be glad their product is selling right now! |
I agree!
I can understand the policies on ARTWORK, stamped images included, but I do not agree with the policy on using tools such as dies to create items to sell. In fact I do sell things I create with almost all the products out there. I have the right to puchase items and make whatever I would like out of it. If they don't want me to sell anything I create, sue me. Haha...that's their only option. And they don't have time for that. They would at most win the entire profit I made off of them which is NEGATIVE $5394.84.
Yep, I use Cuttlebug folders (WITH non-provocraft stamps...GASP!), nestabilities, punches, etc...all in my projects. I sell a card a week, if that. It's not about mass-producing to make money...it's that I can sell my stuff if I want to.
__________________ Cher
No longer stamping...on to bigger things.
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 06:13 AM
|
#21
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: prolly in my 'rubber room'... in the mid-west
Posts: 11,531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by cjbappI agree!
I can understand the policies on ARTWORK, stamped images included, but I do not agree with the policy on using tools such as dies to create items to sell. In fact I do sell things I create with almost all the products out there. I have the right to puchase items and make whatever I would like out of it. If they don't want me to sell anything I create, sue me. Haha...that's their only option. And they don't have time for that. They would at most win the entire profit I made off of them which is NEGATIVE $5394.84.
Yep, I use Cuttlebug folders (WITH non-provocraft stamps...GASP!), nestabilities, punches, etc...all in my projects. I sell a card a week, if that. It's not about mass-producing to make money...it's that I can sell my stuff if I want to. |
yup! me too
i do sell a few cards here and there, but i am most definitely still WAY in the red!
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 06:32 AM
|
#22
|
Hardware Hotshot
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US--midwest
|
Quote: Originally Posted by row4dIf you want to use art images you didn't design, you're just gonna have to deal with it or come up with your own stamp line. Welcome to the wonderful world of copyright law and intellectual property!
Sorry to be so blunt, but people come on here and whine about this all the time. The reason that these companies make money from their intellectual property is that they have the legal right to determine how their work is used. |
I hope my post didn't come over too whiny. At least I didn't want it to sound like it. Just wanted to hear others thoughts on it.
It is funny that most posters didn't even know about this angel policy since the cuttlebug stuff is so popular. I think every company should have a huge imprint on their package "Do not purchase if you are wanting to sell cards with our products".
Another thought...would they really sue somebody over it?
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 07:08 AM
|
#23
|
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
What's funny is the VERY few cards I sell. I turn around and buy more stuff. So if they really want to enforce it they will be really cutting their nose off to spite their face.
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:32 AM
|
#24
|
Hardware Hotshot
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US--midwest
|
Quote: Originally Posted by jody5grayWhat's funny is the VERY few cards I sell. I turn around and buy more stuff. So if they really want to enforce it they will be really cutting their nose off to spite their face. |
That is just why I consider selling cards - so I can buy more stuff.
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:37 AM
|
#25
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: prolly in my 'rubber room'... in the mid-west
Posts: 11,531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by jody5grayWhat's funny is the VERY few cards I sell. I turn around and buy more stuff. So if they really want to enforce it they will be really cutting their nose off to spite their face. |
me too... as soon as i get those FEW dollars they are tucked away for more supplies!
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:46 AM
|
#26
|
Crimping Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
provo craft
Not sure if this is a way to get around anything..but like on ebay when you can't sell tickets, they are selling a photo album and the tickets are a free gift with purchase. Wondering if we can sell the card and the background is free???Just a thought. I have a website that I "sell" cards on more like listed not really selling and the only way I buy more of their stuff is if I sell some, I mean I am a total hoarder but really how much stuff can you use or make to give away? I think that sure would put a cramp in the companies wallets??? Or are we just so obessed that we will buy it anyway???
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:47 AM
|
#27
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Liverpool, Ohio
Posts: 13,463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by jody5grayWhat's funny is the VERY few cards I sell. I turn around and buy more stuff. So if they really want to enforce it they will be really cutting their nose off to spite their face. |
Same here - how stinky of them! Luckily there are enough products out there, that I can just sell the cuttlebug and buy big shot At least it is simple and easy to follow their angel policy.
__________________ Sheena
Blog
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:50 AM
|
#28
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Liverpool, Ohio
Posts: 13,463
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by craftsrlbNot sure if this is a way to get around anything..but like on ebay when you can't sell tickets, they are selling a photo album and the tickets are a free gift with purchase. Wondering if we can sell the card and the background is free???Just a thought. I have a website that I "sell" cards on more like listed not really selling and the only way I buy more of their stuff is if I sell some, I mean I am a total hoarder but really how much stuff can you use or make to give away? I think that sure would put a cramp in the companies wallets??? Or are we just so obessed that we will buy it anyway??? |
Or maybe you can advertise the other products - like the SU items and put their angel policy stamp on, and then say the cuttlebug images are a free gift :mrgreen:
__________________ Sheena
Blog
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 08:54 AM
|
#29
|
Mad Swapper
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by swain78Or maybe you can advertise the other products - like the SU items and put their angel policy stamp on, and then say the cuttlebug images are a free gift :mrgreen: |
Great idea! :cool:
__________________ Kat
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 09:49 AM
|
#30
|
Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wait! Let me check my barcode.....
Posts: 14,123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
I agree with Cher.....I sell all the stuff...to buy more stuff....
Blessings.
__________________ Amber Shaw
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 09:53 AM
|
#31
|
Splitcoast Hall of Fame
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
|
Quote: Originally Posted by EllibelleAnother thought...would they really sue somebody over it? |
Well, it's very well known that Disney will not hesitate, no matter how small and inconsequential a crafter might think they are.
Provo Craft has purchased licenses from Disney, to produce Disney images on various craft products.
As someone else has mentioned, this topic has been raised repeatedly, so I guess I'll repeat what I've repeated before, too.
Intellectual property rights and copyright law exist for the protection of all; to disregard them hurts the very artists/illustrators, and creative geniuses behind the very products we claim to love and want to buy.
This is rampant in the music industry, and it is happening in the craft industry as well, causing huge losses in revenue.
If they can't make a living because others are profiting off their intellectual property, no matter what it is, no matter how little, without permission, they eventually quit and go take jobs in other fields where they can.
It's a much bigger picture, and you can't just look at it from the perspective of, "Well, *little ol' me* is not making big money."
It is the collective damage done by thousands with this mindset that hurts the very industry that supplies the products we love to buy and use.
There's so much more to the creative industries (music, art, craft & hobby, etc.) than consumers are aware of, and the trickle down effect of disregarding copyright for one's own benefit has more negative impact than you might imagine.
OK, I'm off. ;)
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . ) julieebersole.com "So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 02:38 PM
|
#32
|
Pearl-ExPert
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Very nicely said, Julie! I agree, I think we sometimes forget that much of our creativity feeds off the creativity of others. Without some fantastic artists creating the stamps and backgrounds, how could I hope to create a card, album page, or anything else? So, a huge thank you to the artists who make my "art" possible!
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 03:32 PM
|
#33
|
Rubber Obsessor
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Well I dont sell many cards except out of a little box at work once and a while. But I do make tons of cards by hand 12 at a time and then at the end of the year give them away to friends, family and co-workers. I think these angle policys are crazy sometimes, I do understand them to some extent but come on. I happen to be married to a great artist and often have him draw things for me to make cards with with cute little sayings that I come up with myself. A friend of mine is also a great dooddler, and I'm not so bad with a pen either I was joking and saying lets make our own stamps to sell. Well we are not far from it now. We will copyright the images within the month and be sending them out to make them into stamps. My angle policy will be: have fun!!! Dont steal my S%$# and dont mass produce with machines everything must be hand done. sell your handmade stuff where ever you wish just gives us the cudos (advertisement) And mix them with whatever products work best for you. I will let ya know when they are ready
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 07:29 PM
|
#34
|
Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
|
Well, I haven't started selling cards, but was contemplating it. I'm sure glad I figured out how to make my own embossing folders with my CraftRobo. I have quite a few cuttlebug folders, but haven't bought any for about year, and now that I know this, I probably won't buy anymore...
|
|
|
01-20-2009, 07:32 PM
|
#35
|
Rubber Obsessor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
I am new to rubber stamping and I certainly don't want to ever sell my things. However, I have looked at the Spellbinders Nestibilities and other dies and embossing folders . A person could spend THOUSANDS of dollars if they bought all of them. Do these companies think they will remain in business if only people like me, who only want to make a few cards for family and friends, buy a couple of their products? It would seem to me these dies are tools. And I know no one can copyright a geometric shape such as a square, circle, rectangle or oval. So they can't claim copyright on the plain edge geometric shapes. Interesting
|
|
|
01-21-2009, 03:50 AM
|
#36
|
Insane Embellisher
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia, where we have the beach and mountains all in one state!!
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
WOW, thanks for the heads up!!! I've always had a dream of selling my art work to "make money". I do respect each and everyone's policy on when it comes to using "their" products to produce my art work. But I had not idea with the nesties and cuttlebut stuff.... I will be more aware of this in the future.
BTW, I have not sold the first card yet, but I can dream!!!
Always hope,
|
|
|
01-21-2009, 03:57 AM
|
#37
|
Pearl-ExPert
|
Julie wrote a terrific post that explains some of the reasons for copyright laws.
I come from a needlework background and have known some of the best people in the industry over the years. The violation of copyright law- by those who said things like "the designers should be happy that I buy their charts" or "I'm not making a lot of money out of it"- has radically altered the needlework industry in recent years. I personally know several designers whose lost income has forced them out of business; others have seen their incomes drop dramatically because of the trickle effects of too many individuals who see nothing wrong with violating copyright law.
If you don't like the angel policy of a company, then do not buy their products for use in creating things to sell. Those policies are designed to protect the company and their intellectual property.
People need to see beyond their own selfish, self-centered perspectives. These companies are not setting rules to make your life more difficult, they are setting rules, legal rules that they are entitled to make, to preserve their company and the jobs of those employed by them.
Will you get caught if you violate angel policies? Maybe, maybe not. But, the needlework industry has become more aggressive in finding and prosecuting those who break the laws about copyright and the paper craft industry is likely to follow the same route if the practice becomes rampant.
Violation of copyright, including angel policies, is stealing, plain and simple. It's illegal. You are breaking the law. There are legal remedies for the companies and they can pursue them. If the actions of many individuals- who don't see that their individual action, repeated over and over by uncounted numbers of others who think the same way- start to impact the company's income, they will decide to take action against the perpetrators, or will go out of business.
And, is that what you want?
|
|
|
01-21-2009, 05:18 AM
|
#39
|
Gabfest Goddess
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,024
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
|
Quote: Originally Posted by LilliannWell I dont sell many cards except out of a little box at work once and a while. But I do make tons of cards by hand 12 at a time and then at the end of the year give them away to friends, family and co-workers. I think these angle policys are crazy sometimes, I do understand them to some extent but come on. I happen to be married to a great artist and often have him draw things for me to make cards with with cute little sayings that I come up with myself. A friend of mine is also a great dooddler, and I'm not so bad with a pen either I was joking and saying lets make our own stamps to sell. Well we are not far from it now. We will copyright the images within the month and be sending them out to make them into stamps. My angle policy will be: have fun!!! Dont steal my S%$# and dont mass produce with machines everything must be hand done. sell your handmade stuff where ever you wish just gives us the cudos (advertisement) And mix them with whatever products work best for you. I will let ya know when they are ready |
PROPS, girl!!
__________________ ~trish~
{there are no mistakes in rubber stamping; only embellishment opportunities}
|
|
|
01-21-2009, 06:57 AM
|
#40
|
Hardware Hotshot
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US--midwest
|
Quote: Originally Posted by tchkJulie wrote a terrific post that explains some of the reasons for copyright laws.
I come from a needlework background and have known some of the best people in the industry over the years. The violation of copyright law- by those who said things like "the designers should be happy that I buy their charts" or "I'm not making a lot of money out of it"- has radically altered the needlework industry in recent years. I personally know several designers whose lost income has forced them out of business; others have seen their incomes drop dramatically because of the trickle effects of too many individuals who see nothing wrong with violating copyright law.
If you don't like the angel policy of a company, then do not buy their products for use in creating things to sell. Those policies are designed to protect the company and their intellectual property.
People need to see beyond their own selfish, self-centered perspectives. These companies are not setting rules to make your life more difficult, they are setting rules, legal rules that they are entitled to make, Quote: to preserve their company and the jobs of those employed by them.
|
Will you get caught if you violate angel policies? Maybe, maybe not. But, the needlework industry has become more aggressive in finding and prosecuting those who break the laws about copyright and the paper craft industry is likely to follow the same route if the practice becomes rampant.
Violation of copyright, including angel policies, is stealing, plain and simple. It's illegal. You are breaking the law. There are legal remedies for the companies and they can pursue them. If the actions of many individuals- who don't see that their individual action, repeated over and over by uncounted numbers of others who think the same way- start to impact the company's income, they will decide to take action against the perpetrators, or will go out of business.
And, is that what you want? |
I don't see in which way it would hurt the company or designer if people would use their stuff to make cards for sale. That would just make the card maker buy more of their products, and the company would feel motivated to design new things.
I do accept their policy and will NOT sell anything with their designs, but I will also limit the items I buy from them. I would spend my money with them, if it weren't for their strict policy, instead I will buy from the competitor. The way I see it, that hurts a company more, than if they had a more open angel policy.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|