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Old 01-23-2009, 07:27 PM   #81
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Oh, the irony! Don't these companies with such restrictions realize that the more money we make selling our creations, the more money we will spend on THEIR products? That really is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by chickadeelodge View Post
My understanding is that the Sure Cuts A Lot program is NOT made nor endorsed by ProvoCraft.

The Design Studio is made by Provocraft and works with existing cartridges, enabling a person to 'tweak' the existing cartridge die cuts (as I understand it). Sure Cuts A Lot allows the user to download dingbats, etc. and the possibilites are truly endless. As I understand it, a person can design pretty much ANYTHING with that program. Last I heard, ProvoCraft was trying their best to block this program.

I personally think ProvoCraft is shooting itself in the foot with its restrictive policies regarding sale of items made with their products. I for one am more than happy to utilize the companies that DO support the home crafter who is trying to make a few dollars to keep up their habit.

Hats off to all you wonderful companies with fabulous Angel Policies in place. You make our day!
You are correct in that Provocraft did not put out Sure Cuts A Lot, they put out the design studio. I own both. I bought the design studio when it first came out as a way to incorporate images together (welding) and then cutting them out. When SCAL came out it really did a number with PC. They are adamant about the fact that having SCAL in use with your Cricut will void the warranty. SCAL has to update the firmware on your Cricut, but so does design studio so there really isn't a difference in that. I am on the Cricut forums and this issue comes up a lot. We are just told by Provocraft that SCAL isn't "good" for your Cricut..........I really think it's not good for Provocraft and they realize that. I have yet to meet one person on the Cricut forums that have had one issue with SCAL. It's sad that most of us are not buying new cartridges due to policy and price.

My Cricut is almost 2 years old and at this point I have all but gotten rid of most of my cartridges and now call my Cricut "my cutter". So over time I've learned with SCAL that I can draw my own SVG files and cut them out with my Cricut. Wow, I need to get off this soap box. I'm sorry, but I bought a product for almost $300.00 and have to keep buying cartridges that are hardly ever on sale and that you can't use coupons to buy their products either, it kind of turns your product into a money pit, not for us, but for them.

I too want to thank the other companies for their Angel policies as I have never thought of making a great deal of money off of my products. If anything, when I sell something the money goes straight back into buying more product! It's the pleasure out of making things that is the profit, not the monetary gain. I wish Provocraft could see that. Ok.....sorry, I'm done
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:52 PM   #83
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:51 AM   #84
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okay, i have a question. I was just reading the new scrapbooks, etc. magazine, and they made a valentine (p 121). in the supplies list, they list the cricut being used ALONG WITH other non-pc products (some su paper, american craft stickers, paper studio products, etc.--the list is quite lengthy). is this illegal in the way of using pc products with non-pc products for publication? after reading everyone's posts, and then reading this magazine, i was curious as to the legality of this. i love this thread- i wish i would have known all this before i bought my cricut. now i am seriously considering scal instead of more cartridges. too bad i already have a disney one... tia for your thoughts.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:43 AM   #85
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I'm only making a comment here, but in response to the post made by kdriesen #84, I would say they can do that since it is only being submitted to a publication and not being sold. Again, this is just my opinion. I do see this a lot in the various magazines for cards that I get. But in the Supplies listing, they are not always terribly specific as to what specific embossing product was used. So maybe that's another way they can get away with it.

As this is a bit off topic for this forum, I will make a comment anyway. I have the Cricut and Expression and about 25 cartridges. I use them all the time and will continue to. I don't have the other program that others mention and have no need for it. I also don't have any intention of selling the items I create. I prefer to give them away. I find that more enjoyable.

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Old 01-24-2009, 05:47 AM   #86
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okay, i have a question. I was just reading the new scrapbooks, etc. magazine, and they made a valentine (p 121). in the supplies list, they list the cricut being used ALONG WITH other non-pc products (some su paper, american craft stickers, paper studio products, etc.--the list is quite lengthy). is this illegal in the way of using pc products with non-pc products for publication? after reading everyone's posts, and then reading this magazine, i was curious as to the legality of this. i love this thread- i wish i would have known all this before i bought my cricut. now i am seriously considering scal instead of more cartridges. too bad i already have a disney one... tia for your thoughts.
Most of the time when a magazine is getting ready for publication they contact the companies of the products they are using to ask about copyright laws. Copyright laws for the use of products for publication is much different than the laws for selling the item. Are they infringing on copyright laws in their publication? I doubt it. Are we infringing on copyright laws if we make a similar (not exact but using the same material) valentine and sell it? Yes, because Provocraft's Angel policy states that "Any craftwork to be sold must not incorporate third-party copyrighted material. The craftwork must contain only Provo Craft products that are sold under the Provo Craft trademark."

SCAL has been a great product for me. I enjoy it more and more that I learn to use it and play with it.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:06 AM   #87
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Default other companies' angel policies

Wow! I never gave much thought to the use of tools when making cards, etc. to sell. I'm glad I caught this thread before I began selling anything.

I just checked out EK Success' site http://www.eksuccess.com/pdfs/Angel_...ines_Sheet.pdf and their policy is also pretty restrictive as well as annoying, i.e the submission sheet.

I'm curious about the ProvoCraft policy because they don't have much paper anymore. So how can any of us make anything to sell if they don't have ALL the product we need? Or is that their goal?

I've emailed Making Memories as their policy seemed to be more about the trademark than their products.

I'm glad that SU! recently changed their policy, but their punches are made by EK Success aren't they?

I'm not dissing the policies, that is the right of the companies. I do agree with many of you though that I'm going to be looking more carefully at what I purchase from now on.

Thank you for this thread. Please keep up the information.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:30 AM   #88
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Default Hot Off the Press angel policy

Okay, I'm on a mission.

Here's Hot off the Press' angel policy. Please note they address their Disney products
http://www.paperwishes.com/articles/id/67148

I emailed Carl punches and Marvy to find out their policies.

I'm mentally going through the products I have and looking up angel policies. Does anyone know about defunct companies? I have several Emagination punches and thought they went out of business.

Off looking for more angel policies.
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:37 AM   #89
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Default Fiskars' angel policy

Here's another:

http://www.fiskarscrafts.com/aboutus/angel.aspx

I'm apologizing a little bit for my zeal...
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:53 AM   #90
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Can you imagine if we had to provide credits to every "media" we use for every "product". For example, the back of our cards could read ....

Paper by xxxxxxx
Stamp by BBBBBB
Glitter by FFFFFF
Glue by PPPPPP
Cut out 1, 2, 4 by HHHHHH
Cut Out 3, 5 by TTTTT
Dimensional by OOOOOOO
Hardwork and Creativity by me

I'll have to make bigger cards to include it all

Last edited by MJHBJS; 01-27-2009 at 10:54 AM.. Reason: OOOppps forgot Cutter by MMMMM and scissors by TTTTT
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:03 AM   #91
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Can you imagine if we had to provide credits to every "media" we use for every "product". For example, the back of our cards could read ....

Paper by xxxxxxx
Stamp by BBBBBB
Glitter by FFFFFF
Glue by PPPPPP
Cut out 1, 2, 4 by HHHHHH
Cut Out 3, 5 by TTTTT
Dimensional by OOOOOOO
Hardwork and Creativity by me
LOL But many companies says you can't use other copyright material with their products. Maybe you need to sell "card kits" with each separate piece noting the company on the back , a diagram on how to assemble the card and some adhesive in the kit. LOL
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:30 AM   #92
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Default from Making Memories

I just received this from Making Memories:

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in using Making Memories products in your work. We love to hear that we are creating products that you can use in your projects. Feel free to use any of our products in your projects for sale. But please remember that Making Memories products are protected by copyright laws and cannot be electronically reproduced without appropriate consent. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
makingmemories
Customer Service

1-800-286-5263

1-800-631-3103 (fax)

customerservice@makingmemories.com

Yes, you can use our products for resale as long as it is not electronically copied.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:00 AM   #93
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I was intending to buy a cuttlebug as soon as I had enough money... because I wan't to gain time embossing in order to sell a few cards to allow me to buy more stuff. Now I'm going to be very careful not to buy provocraft products. They've just lost a potential customer.

Thanks God for the moment as I am a beginner I don't think I've got a lot and I might have none. Actually I have no idea of the brands I've bought.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:01 AM   #94
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I was intending to buy a cuttlebug as soon as I had enough money... I want to gain time embossing in order to sell a few cards to allow me to buy more stuff. Now I'm going to be very careful not to buy provocraft products. They've just lost a potential customer.

Thanks God for the moment as I am a beginner I don't think I've got a lot and I might have none. Actually I have no idea of the brands I've bought.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #95
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This makes no sence to me. That would be like shooting yourself in the foot for a retailer. Why would I buy anything as a tool that I can't use in my profession. It's crazy. That's like saying if I paint my bedroom with Sherwin Williams paint, I can't sell the house if the kitchen is painted with Sear's paint. Also, I can they possibly prove that you used their product. There are so many alike now. Plus I can emboss pokadots on paper with or without their folder.

I don't really plan to sell anything I make, but please, this is ridiculous.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:03 PM   #96
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JulieHRR, I agree that we should respect the copyright laws of all the companies; but I wonder how would these companies survive if they simply expect us to buy ALL those things just to make crafts for ONLY our family.

Given the competition and variety in this market, I think all those companies will perish which have a strict angel policy. The more they let people sell their handmade goods, the more they'll flourish. I don't understand why these companies can't understand that.

I was thinking of buying cuttlebug folders but now I think I'll go with Sizzix.

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Originally Posted by JulieHRR View Post
Well, it's very well known that Disney will not hesitate, no matter how small and inconsequential a crafter might think they are.

Provo Craft has purchased licenses from Disney, to produce Disney images on various craft products.



As someone else has mentioned, this topic has been raised repeatedly, so I guess I'll repeat what I've repeated before, too.

Intellectual property rights and copyright law exist for the protection of all; to disregard them hurts the very artists/illustrators, and creative geniuses behind the very products we claim to love and want to buy.

This is rampant in the music industry, and it is happening in the craft industry as well, causing huge losses in revenue.

If they can't make a living because others are profiting off their intellectual property, no matter what it is, no matter how little, without permission, they eventually quit and go take jobs in other fields where they can.

It's a much bigger picture, and you can't just look at it from the perspective of, "Well, *little ol' me* is not making big money."

It is the collective damage done by thousands with this mindset that hurts the very industry that supplies the products we love to buy and use.

There's so much more to the creative industries (music, art, craft & hobby, etc.) than consumers are aware of, and the trickle down effect of disregarding copyright for one's own benefit has more negative impact than you might imagine.

OK, I'm off.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:57 PM   #97
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Given the competition and variety in this market, I think all those companies will perish which have a strict angel policy. The more they let people sell their handmade goods, the more they'll flourish. I don't understand why these companies can't understand that.
I don't understand why crafters often can't accept that these companies have every legal right to dictate how their intellectual property is used -- it's incredibly ironic, since crafters really should be the most understanding! It's because of the intense competition and variety that they MUST protect their copyright. In the case of the music industry, sure, more and more people got to listen to the songs being "shared" but the artists who worked to create them weren't getting the benefit from their work. Many, many stampers get upset and post their frustrations here all the time when someone copies their work and then benefits from it by submitting the copy to a contest or for publication. It's really no different.

Disney's the strictest company around when it comes to duplication of their licensed art, and sales of their product is hardly suffering as a result, whether it's craft kits, quilt fabric, or children's toys!
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:55 PM   #98
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Very interesting topic ladies I love this exchange of opinions and ideas. Here are some of mine, and they don't have copyrights

Reading through the angel policies posted in this thread, I can see that they do allow us to sell our craft items that were made using their products in small or local scale like that of craft shows or art fairs. When the product companies were writing these policies, I think they were pertaining to those who abuse their products through mass production and making huge profits out of it. Who among us from SCS alone has mass produced cards and made thousands of dollars, let's say, in one year? If and when I do sell cards, I'd be very happy to just get back what I paid for for the table or space I got in a craft show, which in my area would be $30.

Here's what I think:

- even if we sell our cards, the odds of us making a lot of money is very small. How many cards can one person make to earn at least hundreds of dollars? That's what I like about Wizard's policy because it's specifically stated that "Please do not mass-produce, allow production by hired workers or produce your work in assembly line fashion."

- I totally agree that our use of their products is free advertisement. Knowing each other, we tend to want what others have when it comes to this expensive hobby of ours. When I go to craft shows and see vendors who sell handmade cards, I like to know (and ask the vendor) a specific tool they used if I really like how it looked, and would definitely buy one for myself.

- Maybe this won't make sense, but when it comes to cardmaking for example, can anyone tell me the numbers/percentage between those who sell for a profit and those who sell for fun? Because if I will sell cards in a craft show, I'm doing it for fun And if there's a profit, it just goes back to the market to buy more tools and supplies for this hobby.

- I think a lot of people are giving a different meaning to Intellectual Property Rights. What I know about it is IPR is protection from those who steal somebody's ideas (creations of the mind) in the form of artwork, inventions, designs, etc (thus intellectual) for a profit through reproduction and adaptation. If I sell a card with an embossed background using a Cuttlebug folder and a colored stamped image from Inkadinkado, I don't think that's stealing from ProvoCraft or Inkadinkado. I created a card using tools and materials, and that Cuttlebug folder is a tool, among with the other tools that I used like the papercutter, stamp, scissors, punches, etc. Nestabilities dies are tools. Stamps are tools. The magazines and books classify them as tools. They do wear out or break but they are not consummable like glue, ink or paper. If they are not tools, what are they? Now, if I create an embossing folder that is exactly like any of the Cuttlebug folders, or create a scalloped oval that is exactly the same as that of Nestabilities and sell them, or re-package these products and put my own label on it, that is stealing and is, I believe, a violation of IPR. I don't see any difference with woodworkers who build and sell wonderful furniture and use special tools to give shape and texture to their chairs and tables, to us cardmakers who make cards and use special tools to make our cards look beautiful, and let's say, sell them. If we sell our cards, I don't consider that stealing from these wonderful companies. We paid for these tools for us to use and create with. And what we create using these tools are our creations. Provocraft, Wizard, Sizzix, Stampin' Up and all of these other companies created their products with tools too. Just like what CandyStripe said, we are just using these tools as a framework of our own creations. And I don't think selling our creations is selfish. I think it is selfish for these companies to tell us what to do with these products that we paid for with our hard earned money. You mean to tell me, it is ok to resell an already used Cuttlebug embossing folder for double the price on Ebay but it is not ok to sell a card created with a variety of tools and materials, including a Cuttlebug embossing folder for a 50 cent profit?

- I also agree that it is a different story if we sell embossed card fronts of Cuttlebug or stamped images of Stampin' Up, CTMH or any other stamp companies, or renaming a digital scrapbooking element file and selling it as your own. Because there is no creativity involved in there. You didn't create. You just reproduced, or shall we say, mass produced these items. I consider it the same as photocopying an artwork and selling them. Or burning multiple copies of Beyonce's CD and selling them. That is piracy. And that is selfish.

- However, if it is written and supported by law, as stated by these companies' policies, we do have to abide by it. Come to think of it, why don't these companies print these specific policies in their packaging so the buyers can be aware of it. Not all people who buy these products go to the official websites to read legalities and stuff. Very few people do. I myself haven't read any of these policies until chancing upon this thread. (I know I just said what CandyStripe said in her post, but I just wanted to say it again.)

- Can anyone tell me if there has been a single cardmaker like us, who has sold some cards, made a few dollars profit, and were sued by these companies?

- What about the other countries who are actually pirating these products because the scrapbooking/stamping/card making tools that are available here in the US are really hard to get from their end? Those products that are actually made in China for example, don't you think that they are not being repackaged and sold elsewhere? What about the crafters from outside the US who sell their creations using these tools, whose country's currency value is a lot lesser than the US dollar?

Thank you ladies for a very interesting and healthy discussion. I'm looking forward to more of what you think
Hear, hear!!!!! Well said, and I totally agree. Put that policy right on the front of your package, and see what happens to your sales.
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Old 07-01-2009, 03:35 PM   #99
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Nancystamps and SKICIO, while it may be true that each individual crafter may not make much money from their sales, once you take those few dollars and then multiply them by 1 million crafters (considering that there are more than 300 million people in the US I don't think this is an unreasonable number), you get quite a bit of money, KWIM? Like JulieHRR said a few months ago when she posted to this thread, it's the collective action of a large number of people that causes legitimate and significant damage.
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:17 AM   #100
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If I make a card with an embossed background, or maybe a die-cut image, and sell it (and I'm not talking mass-produced), the purchaser may either: a) say "wow", that looks great, I'm going to go add that CB folder/die to MY collection (cha-ching, sale for Provocraft) or b) not be remotely interested in those products beyond the nice card they needed. Sorry, I'm not seeing the "damage". I'll abide by the rules (and target my purchases accordingly), but I don't agree with it. Again, why can't (won't) they post their policy right on the package then?
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:57 AM   #101
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If I make a card with an embossed background, or maybe a die-cut image, and sell it (and I'm not talking mass-produced), the purchaser may either: a) say "wow", that looks great, I'm going to go add that CB folder/die to MY collection (cha-ching, sale for Provocraft) or b) not be remotely interested in those products beyond the nice card they needed. Sorry, I'm not seeing the "damage". I'll abide by the rules (and target my purchases accordingly), but I don't agree with it. Again, why can't (won't) they post their policy right on the package then?

My sentiments exactly! Right now I have plans to make a basket full of holiday cards to sell at work. 100% of the proceeds will go to a charity of my choice. I also have plans to use a cuttlebug embossing folder for some of the cards. As far as I'm concerned Provocraft can go piss up a rope. At this stage of my life I am not going to worry about the aggregate millions of dollars that other crafters are earning using a Cuttlebug. Neither do I worry about using my embroidery machine to embroider little flowers on hand towels.

I also whole heartedly agree that Provocraft should take a lesson from the cigarette companys. In big bold letters state on the front of the box, so there can be no misunderstanding: IF YOU USE THIS PRODUCT TO MAKE MONEY YOU WILL DIE!!!! OR WE WILL SEE YOU IN COURT!!!

That sort of warning would certainly give me pause before I jeopardized my health and welfare by buying a Cuttlebug.

So I will probably go ahead and use my little snowflake embossing folder on the 10 cards I had planned on using it on. If I feel especially adventurous I might also add a stamped image. I hope they will sell. And if they do I'm not going to feel one bit guilty - I'll take what money I get and donate it to somebody. My plan is to have a basket of about 100 cards, made in multiples of ten (so someone could buy a small set ). That's my plan, and I'm stickin to it -------- Cuttlebug be damned.










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Old 07-02-2009, 04:08 AM   #102
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My sentiments exactly! Right now I have plans to make a basket full of holiday cards to sell at work. 100% of the proceeds will go to a charity of my choice. I also have plans to use a cuttlebug embossing folder for some of the cards. As far as I'm concerned Provocraft can go piss up a rope. At this stage of my life I am not going to worry about the aggregate millions of dollars that other crafters are earning using a Cuttlebug. Neither do I worry about using my embroidery machine to embroider little flowers on hand towels.

I also whole heartedly agree that Provocraft should take a lesson from the cigarette companys. In big bold letters state on the front of the box, so there can be no misunderstanding: IF YOU USE THIS PRODUCT TO MAKE MONEY YOU WILL DIE!!!! OR WE WILL SEE YOU IN COURT!!!

That sort of warning would certainly give me pause before I jeopardized my health and welfare by buying a Cuttlebug.

So I will probably go ahead and use my little snowflake embossing folder on the 10 cards I had planned on using it on. If I feel especially adventurous I might also add a stamped image. I hope they will sell. And if they do I'm not going to feel one bit guilty - I'll take what money I get and donate it to somebody. My plan is to have a basket of about 100 cards, made in multiples of ten (so someone could buy a small set ). That's my plan, and I'm stickin to it -------- Cuttlebug be damned.

d
Before everyone get so upset, please go here and read my post regarding selling your cards using Provo Craft/Cuttlebug products....it's GOOD news!!!

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Old 07-02-2009, 04:41 AM   #103
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Oh.... well, ok then......nevermind.
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Old 07-02-2009, 04:41 AM   #104
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I've been following all three threads, Pam! THANK YOU SO MUCH for investigating and clearing things up for us!!! (yay!)
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:51 AM   #105
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Very well said nancystamps! Couldn't have said it better! Ditto my thoughts.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:41 PM   #106
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THANK YOU PAM!!! I Love my CB,was just looking at some of the new folders and saw this thread,I do 2 craft shows in fall and usually am very careful about angel policys. The thought of craft police frightens me!!!
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:35 PM   #107
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Just FYI, Provocraft pulled their angel policy. They have been promising a republish since May. As of two weeks ago, they stated their policy would be released in 7 days...which has passed.
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Old 08-01-2009, 03:48 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattyd123 View Post
Just FYI, Provocraft pulled their angel policy. They have been promising a republish since May. As of two weeks ago, they stated their policy would be released in 7 days...which has passed.
I'm curious how it will come out. Especially with the new Cricut Gypsy coming out.
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:36 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieHRR View Post
Well, it's very well known that Disney will not hesitate, no matter how small and inconsequential a crafter might think they are.

Provo Craft has purchased licenses from Disney, to produce Disney images on various craft products.



As someone else has mentioned, this topic has been raised repeatedly, so I guess I'll repeat what I've repeated before, too.

Intellectual property rights and copyright law exist for the protection of all; to disregard them hurts the very artists/illustrators, and creative geniuses behind the very products we claim to love and want to buy.

This is rampant in the music industry, and it is happening in the craft industry as well, causing huge losses in revenue.

If they can't make a living because others are profiting off their intellectual property, no matter what it is, no matter how little, without permission, they eventually quit and go take jobs in other fields where they can.

It's a much bigger picture, and you can't just look at it from the perspective of, "Well, *little ol' me* is not making big money."

It is the collective damage done by thousands with this mindset that hurts the very industry that supplies the products we love to buy and use.

There's so much more to the creative industries (music, art, craft & hobby, etc.) than consumers are aware of, and the trickle down effect of disregarding copyright for one's own benefit has more negative impact than you might imagine.

OK, I'm off.
Dear Julie,

This is so well written - thank you! This is so true of artists who only receive compensation through royalty payments. They get no $ upfront for their work and make their livings from the royalties that their artwork produces. To one stamper who sells a few cards here and there it doesn't seem like a lot of money but when thousands are selling cards it DOES mean a huge loss of income to those artist.

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Old 03-08-2011, 11:55 AM   #110
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Quote:
Breaking copyright can be costly.
This is not copyright. This is trademark infringement.

As to dies of shapes? Good luck with restricting that. Even the tool and die companies don't get away with restricting that. You would have to be really, really unique. IANAL, but I am constantly amused and bemused by the ways in which IP law is misapplied and understood.

Stamps, on the other hand, are a very grey area due to the original artwork involved, when there is original artwork.

The reality is that most of these policies are written for international audiences. IP laws are incredibly variable from nation to nation and industry to industry. The more restrictive your policies are towards handicrafters, the less likely I am to buy from you.

Really, shame on you as a manufacturer for trying to usurp more rights than copyright actually gives you! (Die manufacturers and shapes like squares, circles, etc.)
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:35 PM   #111
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I totally agree that these companies have a right to outline their copyright policies as they see fit.

But I have a right to think the ridiculously restrictive, prohibitive angel policies are stupid. I also have a right to make my opinions known to manufacturers and to take my business elsewhere.

(And it's not like PC's angel policy would affect me much, I've sold maybe $100 worth of projects in the last ten years. But I still think the CB policy and the "you can't use any of our product with anyone else's product" policy complete ludicrous.)
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:06 PM   #112
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I just think it is amusing when companies try to usurp rights they don't really have. I'm annoyed when they try to create laws that don't exist.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:41 PM   #113
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Provocraft was looking into updating the policy due to the new Cricut Cake machine because a lot of people wanted to sell their cakes/cupcakes but were using the cricut machines for the designs. There was a big mess on the MB for quite some time. I haven't checked it out lately to see what came of it...but people who never went on the MB wouldn't know of the Angel Policy because it's not listed on their products....and someone else said their husband was a lawyer and the policy would not hold up in court....

to each their own??

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Old 03-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #114
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You know, I was wondering about the Cricut Cake after watching a presentation on HSN. The hostess was saying it would be a great home business to decorate cakes and the woman from Provo was totally agreeing and even making suggestions for different kinds of cakes and themes and things. Makes me wonder especially because Martha Stewart has a few Cricut Cake carts and that company doesn't strike me as the warm and fuzzy type who would encourage crafters to make a buck or two off their intellectual property. Anyway, has anyone heard anymore about this?
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancystamps View Post
If I make a card with an embossed background, or maybe a die-cut image, and sell it (and I'm not talking mass-produced), the purchaser may either: a) say "wow", that looks great, I'm going to go add that CB folder/die to MY collection (cha-ching, sale for Provocraft) or b) not be remotely interested in those products beyond the nice card they needed. Sorry, I'm not seeing the "damage". I'll abide by the rules (and target my purchases accordingly), but I don't agree with it. Again, why can't (won't) they post their policy right on the package then?

Totally agree! I really don't see the "damage" here except that which the companies will suffer in loss of sales!
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #116
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Hear, hear!!!!! Well said, and I totally agree. Put that policy right on the front of your package, and see what happens to your sales.
I think you covered ALL the points very succinctly and it made a very good read! My sentiments EXACTLY.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:24 PM   #117
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Does anyone know what is the angel policy for Sizzix Dies? And Nestabilities from Spellbinders? I would greatly appreciate any feedback!
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:13 AM   #118
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I just reread the sizzix angel policy. Looks like they are an angel company.

Angel Policy | Sizzix.com


I had contacted spellbinders a long time ago, probably when I started this thread back in 2009 and have not heard back from them.
But I just googled them and it looks like they have a limited angel policy now (limited to local sales).

Spellbinders Paper Arts - Designers & Artists - Angel Policy
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:36 AM   #119
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SERIOUSLY?? What do these companies expect us to do with all the stuff we make using "their' stuff? I'm sure most of you out there spend way more $ on THEIR stuff simply for the joy of crafting than we would make in profits selling the stuff we make!
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:36 PM   #120
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Any tips on complying to angel policies without making a mess of my card back? If I use three different products (or more!), that's a lot of stuff on the back! And if I write it by hand, yuk!

As to the SUPolicy limiting times or venue, I copied this from their Angel P:

" Completed, handmade or digitally created projects may be sold at competitive and non-competitive permanent retail locations, as well as temporary craft events, community fundraisers, and over the Internet. "

Re: ProvoCraft, there is an interesting line, #2. "Any Finished Product to be sold under this Angel Policy must either not incorporate Third Party Rights, or if it does, the sale must comply with all applicable Third Party Rights Restrictions.".

This suggests to me that I can use the CB as a background, etc., note the word EITHER.

One last thought, years ago when I was selling SU, it was my understanding that Angel meant just that. SU would consider one an Angel to put their copyright on a finished project but they old only request it, not demand it.

As I said, this was my understanding. Any thoughts? I have read a couple sights that say this Angel stuff is... Well, to put it nicely, not something that can be held up in court. Has anyone gotten any info from a reputable lawyer?
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