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Old 11-14-2013, 09:54 AM   #121
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I'm not sure either but a big pro to paypal is the buyer protection program. I only sell off old crafting supplies through pay pal so that way I know I have the money! Thankfully I've never had to use it either as a buyer or a seller!

I will say it does make it awful easy to do any kind of online shopping, lol! Pretty much just click and buy....dangerous....
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #122
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I have a feeling there are fees someplace that cover this. I had a problem a few years ago, a company shipped a bunch of GLASS refill bottles in a priority box.

Just the glass bottles. In the box. The box was half green when I got it. I had NOT used PayPal and had to pursue it myself. All I was able to get was the 2.50 for the one broken refill. Never mind all the other labels were practically unreadable because of the green ink. I swore to use PayPal after that - they seem to ALWAYS stick up for the buyer. With me, it was like the company didn't want to even talk to me. And yes I posted here about it at the time. (A complaint.) And no I don't remember their name. lol

So I'm really glad PayPal did what I thought they would.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:57 AM   #123
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From what I remember, Paypal will hold their account for the refund.

I really like that "Come All Ye Faithful" set from Papertrey. Dogs in sweaters! It's cute.

I won't order though. Once I know a company has had customer service issues ordering from them seems like spinning the wheel on "Wheel of Fortune" just one more time. No matter what, that bankrupt is going to come up! I'm just too cheap to risk my money!
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:11 PM   #124
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Add me to the list! I wrote to their customer service as well and told them of my feelings. I have never been a customer of theirs and now I never will be! I am a seller on an auction site and always bend over backwards to make my buyers happy if there is ever a problem. Why? Because I want them to come back! It's a drop in their bucket and look what Julie has created with their cheap policy! Who knows how many potential and also current customers she has lost because of this one tiny incident! So glad you got your money back and I'm sure she's stewing over losing. Sweet!
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:59 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by ceramicat1 View Post
From what I remember, Paypal will hold their account for the refund.

I really like that "Come All Ye Faithful" set from Papertrey. Dogs in sweaters! It's cute.

I won't order though. Once I know a company has had customer service issues ordering from them seems like spinning the wheel on "Wheel of Fortune" just one more time. No matter what, that bankrupt is going to come up! I'm just too cheap to risk my money!
I think the dogs in the sweaters are cute too. I just didn't like that they attached the names of sacred Christmas carols to dogs. But otherwise, it is very cute.

You're right that ordering from them is a gamble! Good for you for being careful with your money!
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:02 PM   #126
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Add me to the list! I wrote to their customer service as well and told them of my feelings. I have never been a customer of theirs and now I never will be! I am a seller on an auction site and always bend over backwards to make my buyers happy if there is ever a problem. Why? Because I want them to come back! It's a drop in their bucket and look what Julie has created with their cheap policy! Who knows how many potential and also current customers she has lost because of this one tiny incident! So glad you got your money back and I'm sure she's stewing over losing. Sweet!
Good for you! It's excellent that you recognize the immense value of great customer service and took the time to let them know that they've lost a customer because of their attitude.
Thanks, I'm glad I got my money back too!
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:02 PM   #127
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just think about it this way Papertrey were never out $16 that is their marked up retail price, so even if they sell on the plate as used they should still be in profit. That is another reason that it is a no brainer to refund.
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:06 PM   #128
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I'm torn about something and would love to hear what you all think. I just listed a ton of my PTI sets in the buy/sell forum because I want to convert those products into money with which I can support other companies.
I have $44 in free "rewards" dollars left on my account with Papertrey. I should go ahead and redeem that and get the free stuff that I earned by shopping with them, right? Or would that somehow be going against what I'm trying to stand up for here? Hmmm...I wonder if I do place an order with just those free dollars, if my order will ever arrive...
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by bbbp View Post
I'm curious how this works. You pay through PayPal and they send the money to said company for payment. When you dispute and PayPal gives you your money back - where do they get the money from? Does said company give the money to PayPal who in turn gives it to you? Or is PayPal out the money unless they are able to get it from said company? What if said company does not want to refund?
Paypal will charge this against future payments. The next person who orders from PTI through Paypal will have their entire payment credited, but $16 less will go to PTI, the rest will pay off PTI's debt to Paypal.
Make sense?
I wonder if they've already sold that plate with your fingerprints all over it...
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:58 PM   #130
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Paypal will charge this against future payments. The next person who orders from PTI through Paypal will have their entire payment credited, but $16 less will go to PTI, the rest will pay off PTI's debt to Paypal.
Make sense?
I wonder if they've already sold that plate with your fingerprints all over it...
LOL LOL

Excellent to know that about PayPal. Thanks for enlightening us!
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:30 PM   #131
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I'm torn about something and would love to hear what you all think. I just listed a ton of my PTI sets in the buy/sell forum because I want to convert those products into money with which I can support other companies.
I have $44 in free "rewards" dollars left on my account with Papertrey. I should go ahead and redeem that and get the free stuff that I earned by shopping with them, right? Or would that somehow be going against what I'm trying to stand up for here? Hmmm...I wonder if I do place an order with just those free dollars, if my order will ever arrive...
Tough to walk away from rewards, but I would on principle. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it, however.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:13 PM   #132
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I believe it's like a credit card company, in that they give the customer's money back then deduct it from the amount they send the dealer. I'm sure there is a 'flowing account' for PTI's orders through PayPal, so it would be deducted from that pool.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by rachipohli View Post
I'm torn about something and would love to hear what you all think. I just listed a ton of my PTI sets in the buy/sell forum because I want to convert those products into money with which I can support other companies.
I have $44 in free "rewards" dollars left on my account with Papertrey. I should go ahead and redeem that and get the free stuff that I earned by shopping with them, right? Or would that somehow be going against what I'm trying to stand up for here? Hmmm...I wonder if I do place an order with just those free dollars, if my order will ever arrive...

Those dollars are yours. Don't forfeit them. You could always sell what you get with them. A good thing to get might be the anniversary set (although just one set, since they are $24). Just be advised that your $44 doesn't count towards the $70 free shipping.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:54 PM   #134
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Those dollars are yours. Don't forfeit them. You could always sell what you get with them. A good thing to get might be the anniversary set (although just one set, since they are $24). Just be advised that your $44 doesn't count towards the $70 free shipping.
Yes, that's a good point. And yes, I have never paid shipping one time when ordering from them, but I had already planned on having to pay shipping on this order, since I won't be spending one dime over the $44 rewards dollars.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:22 PM   #135
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Double check they haven't revoked them before you place the order. Considering everything else it wouldn't surprise me...
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:44 PM   #136
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Of course I have a criminal record, that's why I'm trying to steal $16 from Papertrey! lol

I did already report them to the BBB which then gets transferred to their local office. And I agree totally that it's not about $16, it's about the principle. To that end, I'm very happy to report that PAYPAL GAVE ME MY MONEY BACK!! (I guess they weren't convinced by the all those fingerprints all over the plate... ) I highly doubt I'll be receiving the plate in the mail now, because I doubt that she ever sent it in the first place...and now that PayPal decided in my favor, she will definitely not send it back. That's good, I didn't need it in the first place; that's what started all of this!

YAY, PAYPAL!!!! Makes me more comfortable than ever to pay with their service.
I am so happy you got your money back. I am sure the person who read the fingerprint comment fell out of their chair laughing. I know I would have. I am sure PayPal has seen some crazy comments but that one had to be a top ten.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:51 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by rachipohli View Post
I'm torn about something and would love to hear what you all think. I just listed a ton of my PTI sets in the buy/sell forum because I want to convert those products into money with which I can support other companies.
I have $44 in free "rewards" dollars left on my account with Papertrey. I should go ahead and redeem that and get the free stuff that I earned by shopping with them, right? Or would that somehow be going against what I'm trying to stand up for here? Hmmm...I wonder if I do place an order with just those free dollars, if my order will ever arrive...
I wouldn't trust it. This is just me I would have all sorts of scenario's running through my head. Are they going to spit on my order? Are they going to send me used stuff? I would keep thinking I made these people mad and they will probably do something mean.

I am actually a very positive person. I have seen some truly mean people in my life. Once I have been slapped I don't want to get slapped again so I stay away.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:54 PM   #138
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I would just walk away from them and forget the earned dollars, seems a bit hypocritical to order from them now.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:33 AM   #139
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I would just walk away from them and forget the earned dollars, seems a bit hypocritical to order from them now.
I agree. Once I am done with something, I don't look back.
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:25 AM   #140
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wow.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:01 AM   #141
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Add me to the list! I wrote to their customer service as well and told them of my feelings. I have never been a customer of theirs and now I never will be! I am a seller on an auction site and always bend over backwards to make my buyers happy if there is ever a problem. Why? Because I want them to come back! It's a drop in their bucket and look what Julie has created with their cheap policy! Who knows how many potential and also current customers she has lost because of this one tiny incident! So glad you got your money back and I'm sure she's stewing over losing. Sweet!
She's probably said "good riddance" and forgotten all about it! Sorry I'm so sarcastic this morning.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:04 AM   #142
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I'd never buy from PITI just on principle because of all the controversy they've caused, but luckily I've never thought their stamps were all that marvelous anyway. Every set I've ever seen of theirs I've seen on another company's website (just a bit different). I'll buy from reputable companies anyday. Gina K, Marco's Paper, Flourishes, Verve, SU, CTMH, AMuse, Stampendous, etc. etc etc. I don't even look at any blogs they're connected with. Just too many really great companies worth my coins.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #143
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In contrast; I have a customer service story to tell that is how it should be done IMO. This happens to concern Stampin' Up! but I would share regardless of the company.
When the new catalog came out this year I decided to go ahead and order about six new colors that were now part of the line-up; just to freshen up my supplies. One of the colors I ordered was Island Indigo. I bought the 8 1/2 x 11 paper; ink pad and refill.
I unwrapped the ink pad and put it in my carousel; but never opened it.
Just this past week working on Christmas cards I wanted to use this color. Opened the ink pad and it had a HORRIBLE smell. Plus is was EXTRA juicy, to the point that bubbles would form on the top when I tried to ink my stamp. My stamp has a lot of solid areas and I thought the new ink pad would be great for good coverage.

Getting past the smell was one thing but I could not get good even coverage, the bubbles were forming on the stamp and giving me a very blotchy image. I tried scraping across the top of the pad with an old credit card and removed a good deal of ink. This still did not help the coverage issue plus it still SMELLED...and none of the other new ink pads I'd bought at the same time had these issues.
I finally emailed my demo and asked if she knew of any problems with this particular color. She said she would call SU and ask. They are sending me a replacement ink pad, no questions asked, no "send us your bad one" or "send us pictures of the images you are getting"....just ....brand new ink pad.
Now THAT is how customer service should be handled!!
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #144
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Amen!! Yes, you're right, that IS how it should be done! I've had a similar experience with Stampin' Up (not an ink pad, but dried out markers). Their service is fantastic and I appreciate that very much!
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:27 PM   #145
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I think that's why I still have $25 in my account for over a year. I stopped shopping during the last PTI kerfluffle, and then got great service with SU once I joined as a demo, and haven't bought since. I do need to do something with the rewards though, in case they expire at some point...
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:51 AM   #146
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After writing to PITI, this was Julie's response and I have included my email to them. Love the response!

Hi Diana,
Thank you for your email. I am sorry that you are so upset by what you have read on the internet, that you felt compelled to write to us.
As a company, we follow our policies to the letter. We believe in truth, honesty and integrity. Not everyone follows the same rules regardless of what they proclaim on the internet. We have never taken advantage of or lied to a single customer. We are not shooting ourselves in the foot, we are making sure that all of our customers are treated fairly and respectfully by following our written policies. While I fully understand you may not believe a word I say, I think you should consider there are two sides to every story and then there is the truth. Sometimes the louder you scream, the more you have to hide.
Thank you so much, Diana! I wish you all the best in you future endeavors.
Take care,
Julie Heskamp
Customer Service
Papertrey Ink
________________________________________

Diana Alvarez, Nov 14 16:32 (EST):
I have been reading all about your poor customer service on blogs so now you
can add me to the long and continually growing list of buyers who will NEVER
shop with you. I will spend my money elsewhere! Your communication skills
with your customers when there is a problem are appalling. Crafting
purchases are not a priority in these economic times and you are just
shooting yourselves in the foot just to save a few bucks. Good luck in
finding any customers willing to put up with such poor service. We WERE your
bread and butter!
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:21 AM   #147
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Wow....I have so much to say to this, but no time right now...will add later. Suffice it to say, good job in sending the email that you did, Diana!! Well spoken!
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:51 AM   #148
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Wow! That is so sad to hear about the awful experiences with PTI. I'm still staying away from them as a customer. I've had an awesome experience with Viva Las Vegas Stamps when I ordered the Inksentials stamp cleaner from them and they sent the staz-on cleaner instead. I asked about it and they said that they were out of stock on the one I ordered, gave me a refund on that item, and said to keep the wrong item for free. They're really nice , and I always get my orders quickly from them. I'm with the rest of you, I like the nice retailers. I'm more likely to shop from them again if they're kind.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:01 AM   #149
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SCS Member Company The Cat's Pajamas is another company with awesome customer service who goes above and beyond to correct any order issues. I have bought a kerjillion packs of Neenah paper from them, and stamps and twine and buttons and dies to boot...
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:07 AM   #150
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Is she writing the louder you scream part to the customer or herself??????? I'm confused....
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:20 AM   #151
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I'm torn about something and would love to hear what you all think. I just listed a ton of my PTI sets in the buy/sell forum because I want to convert those products into money with which I can support other companies.
I have $44 in free "rewards" dollars left on my account with Papertrey. I should go ahead and redeem that and get the free stuff that I earned by shopping with them, right? Or would that somehow be going against what I'm trying to stand up for here? Hmmm...I wonder if I do place an order with just those free dollars, if my order will ever arrive...
I feel what u should do is order with ur rewards and then sell them here...so that u get money for the rewards that would otherwise be wasted if u weren't going to order....I haven't dealt with them direct but somehow I like their stuff as I have just been buying them used.....
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:44 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Minders View Post
Is she writing the louder you scream part to the customer or herself??????? I'm confused....
I interpret this to be her commenting on the customer screaming - in others words the louder you complain. I interpret the second part of that sentence "the more you have to hide" to mean the customer is lying or hiding something. i.e. the louder a customer screams the more she seems to think they are not being truthful.
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by jkstampin View Post
I interpret this to be her commenting on the customer screaming - in others words the louder you complain. I interpret the second part of that sentence "the more you have to hide" to mean the customer is lying or hiding something. i.e. the louder a customer screams the more she seems to think they are not being truthful.
I interpreted it to mean the same thing, that if someone (in this case, ME) is screaming loudly, it's because they have something to hide. But when you think about it, that doesn't even really make any sense. If I knew I were in the wrong (as in, I actually HAD sent back a used plate and knew I had been caught in the deception), why would I bother going to all the trouble of doing what I'm doing...it takes time and energy to write these posts, file a dispute with PayPal for a mere $16, file a complaint with the BBB and post everything on my blog as well. I wouldn't waste all of that time for an unrighteous cause where I knew I was wrong. I suppose someone would, but again, it goes back to the question of how many people in the crafting world do you think are the lying, thieving type? It just isn't that likely. Add that to the fact that Papertrey has had countless other complaints against them over the course of many years, and it starts to seem pretty outrageous for her to accuse the complainer of being the one who has something to hide.

The fact that she can still write "We believe in truth, honesty and integrity" makes me wonder if she isn't suffering from some kind of fully delusional mental disorder. She has dealt with losing customers left and right, up & down because of her terrible service and rude, condescending attitude OVER AND OVER again over many years and still insists that she is in the right?? ALL those customers are wrong and she ALONE is right? Wow, the arrogance is astounding.
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:23 PM   #154
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I interpreted it to mean the same thing, that if someone (in this case, ME) is screaming loudly, it's because they have something to hide. But when you think about it, that doesn't even really make any sense. If I knew I were in the wrong (as in, I actually HAD sent back a used plate and knew I had been caught in the deception), why would I bother going to all the trouble of doing what I'm doing...it takes time and energy to write these posts, file a dispute with PayPal for a mere $16, file a complaint with the BBB and post everything on my blog as well. I wouldn't waste all of that time for an unrighteous cause where I knew I was wrong. I suppose someone would, but again, it goes back to the question of how many people in the crafting world do you think are the lying, thieving type? It just isn't that likely. Add that to the fact that Papertrey has had countless other complaints against them over the course of many years, and it starts to seem pretty outrageous for her to accuse the complainer of being the one who has something to hide.

The fact that she can still write "We believe in truth, honesty and integrity" makes me wonder if she isn't suffering from some kind of fully delusional mental disorder. She has dealt with losing customers left and right, up & down because of her terrible service and rude, condescending attitude OVER AND OVER again over many years and still insists that she is in the right?? ALL those customers are wrong and she ALONE is right? Wow, the arrogance is astounding.
Rachel, I understand that you are very upset about this whole situation, and I've read all the posts.

With all good intentions, I do want to tell you that there is something called "defamation of character" in the law. I know you believe that has been done to you by the remarks made by the owner of Papertrey...

But the same claim could be made by the owner. If I were you I would be careful about using words in a public forum like the above opinion about her mental state.

How Do I Prove Defamation of Character?
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:33 PM   #155
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Rachel, I understand that you are very upset about this whole situation, and I've read all the posts.

With all good intentions, I do want to tell you that there is something called "defamation of character" in the law. I know you believe that has been done to you by the remarks made by the owner of Papertrey...

But the same claim could be made by the owner. If I were you I would be careful about using words in a public forum like the above opinion about her mental state.

How Do I Prove Defamation of Character?
That's a good point, thanks for pointing it out. But I wasn't stating it as a fact, or making a "claim", just "wondering". And, as it says in that article that you gave the link to, opinions are typically protected, and what I said above was definitely just an opinion (as you stated), and not even a formed opinion at that, just a speculation and not a statement of fact.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing, I appreciate it!
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:44 PM   #156
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Conversely PTI have definitely called the poster a liar which IS defamation of character, and ssubstantiated the claim with a claim about her fingerprints...
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:12 PM   #157
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Conversely PTI have definitely called the poster a liar which IS defamation of character, and ssubstantiated the claim with a claim about her fingerprints...
I understand, but Papertrey may have "deeper pockets" than Rachel, and probably has a lawyer on a retainer. Lawsuits can be filed and must then be defended. Even if there ends up being nothing proved, it can be a royal pain to be taken to court.

We are a very litigious society, and anyone with money for court costs can file a suit. It may be dismissed, but as I said it can be a royal pain to be sued, even when you are actually innocent, and in fact may be the injured party.

If you are sued, you must respond. Every day I see preposterous things on the news about things like this.

I personally would not take a chance of something happening for $16.00.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:52 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by jkstampin View Post
I interpret this to be her commenting on the customer screaming - in others words the louder you complain. I interpret the second part of that sentence "the more you have to hide" to mean the customer is lying or hiding something. i.e. the louder a customer screams the more she seems to think they are not being truthful.
I was being sarcastic. I think the fact that she even replied proves that she's trying to convince herself she's done nothing wrong. If she REALLY thought she was doing the right thing I don't think she should have even replied.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:57 AM   #159
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PTI would also have to decide if it would be worth the bad press to litigate. Blogs and Forums are one thing but I would get myself booked on every morning show about the ridiculousness of the situation if it were me and they sued. At the moment I would just try to keep to the facts.

And FWIW I like PTI designs etc. However I keep waiting for new ownership and management before I will commit my money. I shop for ethical reasons all the time, this is no different to me.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:59 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Minders View Post
I was being sarcastic. I think the fact that she even replied proves that she's trying to convince herself she's done nothing wrong. If she REALLY thought she was doing the right thing I don't think she should have even replied.
I agree. The reply itself had me scratching my head. Why reply to something that clearly didn't require a reply? Your explanation makes sense.
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