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Looking for opinions . . . I attended a stamp camp on Saturday (1-16-10) and we made Target mailboxes and you could also make two 3"x3" cards of your choice, that was it nothing else.
I did some shopping and ended up with a total bill of just over $100. I did not look at my receipt (because I knew I had spent a lot) until I got home, and when I did I discovered that the demonstrator charged $25 for the class fee. To say I was surprised is putting it mildly; I know that supplies cost, but the mailbox is only $1 and there could not have been more that $2 or $3 worth of other supplies.
I know that there is some class prep but there were only five of so it could not have been that much time. I think $25 class fee is way too much, am I being cheap? I will definitely not become a regular member but should I tell the demonstrator why or should I just leave it alone.
Over my side the pond its normal for class fees to be advertised up front. I've never done one where they haven't. That's either being the Tutor or attending myself.
If I were you I'd contact the place and ask her about it - I think its unfair to charge people if they didn't know.
To be fair the cost of the items is often immaterial - preparation before hand can take hours. And as they say time is money.
Hmmm. When we did lunchboxes at my demo's house, we each got two lunchboxes (way more than a buck a piece--they were the SU ones) and plenty of dp to cover them, ribbon, modge podge, etc, and we made dividers for the inside. I think the cost was $30, but it may have been $25. I remember thinking it was fair for what we were getting out of it. We were at her house for four hours, too.
I wouldn't complain to the demo at this point. She may have spent a lot of time preparing, and she deserves compensation for that. BUT I'd not go back without a clear understanding of the fee, and if I decided not to go back, I'd tell her the reason...she's too pricey for my pocketbook.
She's free to charge what she wants, but if enough people feel like you do, she'll have to bring her prices into line with demand.
Also, I expect that the fee will cover the supplies and some small time on her part to organize (I often have been to classes where the demo says, "I did all this ahead of time for you.") Well demos...........don't do it for us. We'll do it ourselves and learn. That will save you time.
Also, I've had demos make full meals for classes............(and add charges accordingly, with good reason). Demos---skip it. We can all bring a bottled water and snacks if we need them, and then skip the meal cost.
That's my 2 cents.
I'm coming there to make the project, etc. I'm not coming to be fed a meal. Nor do I want to pay for one.
hmmmm, this is sticky. I'm still confused by the fact that you didn't know the cost up front. I think if this is really bothering you, should just ask. Maybe she over charged you by accident, or maybe she did spend more on the mailboxes-there are other sources than Target and they are more than $1. Good luck!
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I think charging $25 for a mailbox and two cards is hugely overpriced. At the workshops I have attended I'v been charged $9.00 for six cards, $6.00 for four cards, $15.00 for 10 cards, and $24.00 for eight 12x12 scrapbook pages. Maybe she made a mistake when adding. My demos always post the price with the details.
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The class that I have attended we paid $25 for making 6 cards, but if we bought $40 or more in product we received $15 off of the class price. I do agree that you should have known the cost of the class before hand. Was this the first time that she has conducted a class? Maybe she is unsure of what to charge.
I agree with many of the comments already given. $25 sounds to me to be what is the normal, though more than I would pay for a class like that. I would also bet the mailboxes cost more than $1. I've seen them for $5 and up depending where they were purchased. I agree, food is not necessary..food is too messy with crafting. It is not necessary to have all materials pre-cut and measured. How can I use my creativity if everything is already prepared for me? This kind of event, I would imagine is a money making venture for the demonstrator, so that's why the higher fee. It is not meant necessarily just to cover the cost of materials.....she is looking at it as a profit making venture too. But I think that is typical of all these kinds of things.
With these comments said, I am not a fan of these kinds of events and after going to a few, I don't attend anymore. I would spend the money purchasing products, if I used that particular brand, but I can make my own projects at home much nicer. I don't think those kinds of events are a teaching class where you would learn new techniques.
Class fees are tough...I used to attend a class that had the class fee waived if you spent $75 in product...Then, it went up to $100....The fee was $25, and it went up, with NO NOTICE to $35...I stopped going...
*on a side note...I charge $15 for 4 cards and a 3D project...Or, they can make a $30 order and no fee. I figure I make $15 either way...
I agree that you should have known up front about the cost of the class. I also believe that your instructor should have given you a break on the cost of the class based on your large order. I attend a monthly class that is free with SU! purchase of $20 or more. We usually get four projects to make and they are always so great that we usually end up spending way more than $20. It's up to the demo to "sell" the products by way of the projects she brings to class.
Wow that seems really high to me. I host a Year of Cards event and this year it is 13 (A2 sized) cards with envelopes and a card holder + a gift bag (this year it's awesome and has over $85 worth of SU products) + lunch + prizes for $40. I pre-cut all the card pieces and organize them by card in a little kit.
It's a charity event (the raffle part is) so I'm not in it to make a bunch of $$ but I can do all that for $40 and not lose money.
All prices should be very clearly advertised up front to prevent any confusion or disappointment in fee amounts.
Sorry this happened to you I hate it when I realize something is more expensive than I thought it was and it's too late/unable to be returned!
Having read more of the posts, you were significantly overcharged.
I would ask/know the charge up front.
For demos out there............in today's economic times, I wouldn't be overcharging. People aren't going to come. And again, skip the "treats, snacks, meals" that you have to then pass along the charges to the participants. None of us need that.
I didn't see in your post, but how long was the event? I believe many demos short themselves on the time spent, not only prepping, but for the actual event. Some ( but certainly not all, and I'm not suggesting you) customers come to expect that the demos time should be free, too, which I don't agree with, either.
Did your $100 include your shopping and the class fee? If so, then your purchases may have been around $60 - $65 plus tax and shipping, which comes down to about $12 product commission for the demo. Not a heck of a lot when you factor in the time to process the sales, pack up the sale, deliver the sale, etc.
Many things go into pricing. I know when I did camps, which I gave up a long time ago, some months they got a lot of bang for their buck, other months, less so. Some months I averaged more per hour, other months if I made $5 an hour I was lucky. In the end, it evened out though.
I agree that her price should have been advertised up front.
I charge $10 a class.....if you put in an order of $25 in product....class is free...I've done this for years......I have added in the past 2 years that they bring their own adhesive...that was really a huge cost for me and everyone puts a dollar in a pot for the extra expense of envelopes or candy that goes into the project....a typical class includes....3 identical cards (they prefer that....2 to use and 1 to keep for a sample), and one gift type item.....candy bag etc.......I do make up kits....mainly because of the time it saves for them to make that many projects......oh, and all cards are finished on the inside.....refreshments include water or pop.....never allowed on the work table...it does take me hours to get ready for a class....and, if the adhesive is included in classes , that's a lot of money.....I used to spend $10 on that alone for each class...it's hard to judge why she charged such a big fee.....I think I would give her a call and ask....my classes begin at 7 and most of them are gone by 9-9:30.....the next day is a work day!
Well demos...........don't do it for us. We'll do it ourselves and learn. That will save you time.
Not necessarily. Everyone's skill level is different and what may take a demo 30 minutes to prep for a project might take a class full of people an hour or more to do. And if there's more than one project, it could potentially be much more time if the class participants are doing prepping. Tack that on to the regular class time and it could easily get way out of hand timewise.
Lots to consider when putting together classes....
I too think that was high. I was at a Birthday card stamp camp Friday night and we made three sets of 4 different cards. The cost was $16 for 12 cards. With a $40 order, we got a credit of $8. There was food, beverages and envies we also got to stamp to match.
I'm not sure it's overpriced. I mean I think most of these prices you guys are quoting are hugely underpriced. And that's fine, some demos are not trying to really make money, they are sharing their hobby and trying not to loose money. That's fun and great. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with a demo trying to make an actual profit on a class. Yes, even in addition to the commission on anything you'd buy it's ok for a demo to make a profit.
The only issue I have is that you didn't know. That does stink.
And of course if it's too much for YOU then there you have it, too much for you. You have to decide where to spend your valuable hobby dollars and if the class wasn't worth $25 for you, then now you know.
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That's high. My local Archivers was doing a Tattered Angels workshop this weekend and the costs were $25 for
Quote:
Create a great six-page mini album to house your heritage or family photos while learning fun, easy Glimmer Mist techniques. Not only will you leave with a misted masterpiece to show off, but you'll take your leftover supplies--including mini bottles of Glimmer Mist and a Glimmer Screen--home, too.
Six page album, new techniques and product that probably wouldn't have cost much less for the shopper than the class.
They are charging $18 for a Valentines class of 4 cards and an altered sweet jar + supplies.
One demo I have connections with sent out a survey asking:
1. What types of classes would one be interested in.
2. What type of cost seems reasonable.
She later told me it gave her a better idea of what classes to offer, and also to adjust the projects to the (rough) costs that people were willing to pay.
Makes sense to me...........might be another idea for other demos..............
One demo I have connections with sent out a survey asking:
1. What types of classes would one be interested in.
2. What type of cost seems reasonable.
She later told me it gave her a better idea of what classes to offer, and also to adjust the projects to the (rough) costs that people were willing to pay.
Makes sense to me...........might be another idea for other demos..............
That's high. My local Archivers was doing a Tattered Angels workshop this weekend and the costs were $25 for
Six page album, new techniques and product that probably wouldn't have cost much less for the shopper than the class.
They are charging $18 for a Valentines class of 4 cards and an altered sweet jar + supplies.
Remember that stores have a much deeper discount than a demo on supplies, so their profit margin is higher. Most stores get product for 50% of retail price versus a 20% SU! discount for demos (and if you factor in s/h and sales tax) the 20% is even less.
Way overpriced! I would not have gone if I knew I was going to be charged so much! Maybe that's why she didn't tell you up front! She knew most could not afford it. That is taking advantage, in my opinion.
Remember that stores have a much deeper discount than a demo on supplies, so their profit margin is higher. Most stores get product for 50% of retail price versus a 20% SU! discount for demos (and if you factor in s/h and sales tax) the 20% is even less.
Yes, but demos are still competing with the stores for clients the same clients. So I would still say if I looked at the two classes I would go for the store one as it was more value for my money. The benefit of a demo is convenience. But a demo will push people away if they don't keep their pricing competitive and show value.
Yes, but demos are still competing with the stores for clients the same clients. So I would still say if I looked at the two classes I would go for the store one as it was more value for my money. The benefit of a demo is convenience. But a demo will push people away if they don't keep their pricing competitive and show value.
Although I do find it interesting that many will pay, without batting an eye $25 - $35 at a store, but balk at paying $10 - $15 - $25 at someone's home.
Although I do find it interesting that many will pay, without batting an eye $25 - $35 at a store, but balk at paying $10 - $15 at someone's home.
It goes back to that homemade = cheap thing. :rolleyes: also people think oh its at home there are no overheads...they aren't using using your heating/ac, electricity, wear and tear on your furniture etc. ;)
It goes back to that homemade = cheap thing. :rolleyes: also people think oh its at home there are no overheads...they aren't using using your heating/ac, electricity, wear and tear on your furniture etc. ;)
I do agree with that. When I used to conduct classes, of course you have the above, plus I kicked the family out and they usually went to dinner and movie. Good times by everyone, you bet. Especially the family who got a night out!
It does sound on the high side, but I agree with a lot of the points that Erin and Val raised. Demos run their businesses differently -- some to break even and some to make a profit. A fair amount lose money, although the line between hobby and business often blurs.
A few things to consider regarding pricing:
* The demo may not just be trying to cover the cost of materials like papers and mailboxes, but she may be trying to earn money to pay her costs for the other reusable items used for the class like stamps, inks, punches, etc.
* A demo gets a 20% discount on materials, but she does not get them wholesale or with volume discounts (usually) like Archivers can offer.
I price my classes between $15 and $25, depending on the projects. In general, my friends are not interested in placing orders/owning stamps (I know, gasp!), so my costs need to be covered by the class fee alone.
Yes, but demos are still competing with the stores for clients the same clients. So I would still say if I looked at the two classes I would go for the store one as it was more value for my money. The benefit of a demo is convenience. But a demo will push people away if they don't keep their pricing competitive and show value.
Yes, I definitely agree with this too.
There is variety among the stores in my area too. Archivers offers projects/pricepoints like you mentioned. Yet, the LSS offers a crop night for $10, which does not include any projects or materials, and there is often a waiting list.
I agree that the demonstrator should have definately stated the class price up front. I personally would NEVER go to an event without knowing the costs up front. That being said, however, I don't agree that $25 necessarily sounds high. I hold classes to make money- if I'm not making a reasonable hourly rate for my prep time, actual class time, clean up time- why should I hold a class. I'm a business woman. While I certainly attempt to price my classes competitively with the LSS, ultimately I price the class based upon the material cost and the hourly wage I intend to pay myself. For some of my customers, the prices are too high but for plenty of others the prices must seem reasonable because I generally don't have problems filling those classes.
I didn't see the project so it's hard to say if the cost was reasonable, but any class fee should have been advertised ahead of time. I never taught a class without telling people what it would cost.
I never taught a class where i charged that much, most classes were $10-15 and for that I would teach the class they got full handouts with step-by-step instructions for all the projects, access to all my supplies, most things were pre-cut and ready to assemble to make the class go faster plus I always included photos of additional projects they could do using the techniques shown in the class.
I agree that the class fee should be known up front and not come as a surprise/shock at the end. I always post my fee when sending out any announcement about the class/camp. Since I'm mostly a hobby demo and have camp once a month pretty much just so I don't have to meet my minimums by myself ( ), my fee is not as much as some. We do two cards and one 3D project for $12.00. I don't take any off for ordering (although this is something I may consider changing in the future). I do have iced tea, chips & salsa (my infamous bean salsa!) and usually cookies or something else sweet (can't stamp without sweets, can ya?!). That is all my choice cause I enjoy doing it and the ladies that come to my camps have been doing so for years. We just like getting together to stamp and chat. This is not how I pay the bills! I have a full-time job for that, so this is my fun time. Yes, it is a lot of work to prep for (especially when you are a master procastinator such as I!). But it works for me for now. My cards are more involved than most of the stamp-a-stack kind of cards that I've seen (not meant to be taken as a criticism) so they take a bit of time to prep and for the ladies to assemble. I think everyone has to find what works for them and make choices accordingly.
(attaching a quick pic of one of our projects today so you get the idea - envelopes and insides are part of all my cards although this pic doesn't have an envy yet cause my ladies stamp however they want on their envelopes)
__________________ Dana You can never have too many stamping toys.
I would never pay that much for a class that had a target $1 mailbox and a few 3x3 cards.
My demo charges $18 for 6 full cards and a 3d projects at her camps. 4 cards are easier and 2 are technique time consuming ones.
Class Fee
