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09202005, 10:03 AM

#1

Glitter Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 5,982

is the teacher wrong or am I wrong? hERE'S THE QUESTION.
My daughter had a math problem in school last week which happen to be a problem solving question for math.you figure this out and tell me who is right and who is wrong and explain your answer to me.just in case I am wrong.NOT?'
She marked my daughters paper as wrong she had 4 questions each worth 25 points. she got 2 right 2 she got wrong we feel both of the ones she marked wrong were right .she should of gotten 100% not 50%.as this is now a failing grade as apposed to be a passing grade.so I wrote to her explaining how we got our answer.I have yet to see what she has to say about it.
the teacher gave us an answer of 3 for the first answer and 4 for the second answer.
o.k here goes.Question 1 SOME NOT SUM.
Some of the 12 children are playing in the pool,and some of the kids are on the pool deck.Twice as many kids are in the pool,how many kids are in the pool.
now my daughter put 8 kids are in the pool.since 12 needs to be divided into equal parts there should be 4 to each group.then you combine 2 of those groups together which will give you twice as many as 4.So 4+4=8.
the teacher said the answer is 3.how is 3 twice as many.can someone explain this to me.
keep in mind that it said SOME AND NOT SUM.That is the differance here in this question it doesn't specify at all how to do this problem.
I know this is easy but for a 4th grader it is also confusing.since we had to reread this over a few times.we did however ask another teacher who teaches there and she came up with 8 also as her answer.
question 2
we already know there are 12 kids.7 kids have towels.1 towel is wet, how many kids do not have towels.my daughter gave an answer of.4
but the way she wrote it it was suppose to be in a sentence,so she wrote it like this.
it is four..(meaning 4 towels are wet,but didn't say wet towels in her answer so the teacher marked it as wrong.)
now the teacher wrote it as wrong and wrote down this next to hers.
the answer is 4 wet towels.
don't you think that by giving the answer of 4 in her answer that she should of given her some credit.
so now this gives her a score of 50% rather than 100%.which is a failing grade as apposed to passing grade.
who is right and who is wrong.
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Last edited by Lisa62; 09202005 at 10:07 AM..



09202005, 10:25 AM

#2

SCS Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 21,298

Former 3rd garde teacher, and my master's has a math emphasis.
The pool question if that was exactly as written, I would say you were right.
I read it as 2x + 1x =12 or 3x=12 so x=4
hence 8 in and 4 out
As far as the wet towelsI was nitpicky as well and called nonspecific answers "naked numbers" (4 what? caterpillars? was my commonly used response)
HOWEVER I would not take off all of the points, but merely deduct a few for clarity.
Was this a homework or classwork or what? It seems like if there are 25 points for each answer that some partial credit needs to be assigned, especially for the "wet towels" response.
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09202005, 10:26 AM

#3

Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,872

For the 1st answer I got 4 and the 2nd answer I got 6 children don't have towels (12  7 = 5 minus 1 wet towel is 6 children without a towel)???? I don't think that these problems are easy for elementary aged children. The concepts are easy but the way the problems are worded definitely aren't.



09202005, 10:35 AM

#4

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Driving round in circles
Posts: 13,011

I got the same answers as Tickleytoes, 4 for the first question, 6 for the second. 7 started with towels, 5 without, one extra doesn't have a towel as it is wet, therefore 6 don't have towels.
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Ally
Last edited by Ally; 09202005 at 10:40 AM..



09202005, 10:48 AM

#5

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 43,101

Well I got the same answer for the first question.
HOWEVER The second question I did not get the same answer as the teacher did....
The question was how many do not have towels ? correct??
Would that not be 5??
It did not ask anything about the wet towels just the number of children without towels?????



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09202005, 11:00 AM

#6

Stampin' Fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,472

I think you are right on the 1st problem. There are 8kids in the pool!!!!
As for the 2nd problem I think the answer is 5, the 1 wet towel doesn't matter, it was just thrown in to confuse the student to see if she/he could still figure it out.
I think you should go in and talk to the teacher. Or at least call her. Have the teacher explain how she came up with her answer for the 1st problem, even though it is WRONG!
Let us know what she has to say, PLEASE.
Dina
Last edited by dgmlmax; 09202005 at 02:41 PM..



09202005, 11:07 AM

#7

Glitter Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 5,982

update
I just got back home .the teacher read my note and said she was up late correcting papers.
and read it wrong.she gave my daughter 100.since the first answer was indeed 8 kids on the pool.and the second 1 was 4.
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09202005, 11:11 AM

#8

Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,872

Why is the 2nd answer 4? I don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa62
I just got back home .the teacher read my note and said she was up late correcting papers.
and read it wrong.she gave my daughter 100.since the first answer was indeed 8 kids on the pool.and the second 1 was 4.




09202005, 11:54 AM

#9

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Take off, eh?  to the great white north
Posts: 16,809

Quote:
Originally Posted by tickley_toes
Why is the 2nd answer 4? I don't get it.

me either!
the first answer is 8 because 8 is twice as many as 4 and 8 + 4 = 12
the second answer is 5 kids do not have towels. the question was asking how many children don't have towels, not how many children had dry towels, therefore: 12  7 = 5
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09202005, 11:57 AM

#10

Polyshrink Goddess
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Richland, WA
Posts: 645

I think the second question is supposed to be answered like this to get an answer of 4:
There are 12 kids. 7 of these kids have towels in their hands, leaving 5 kids not holding towels. Out of these 5 kids, one kid got his towel wet so it's hanging on the fence. This leaves 4 kids that don't have a towel anywhere near the pool.
My opinion, this was a badly written question since you have to make assumptions to answer the question (i.e., the wet towel was not one of the towels that the 7 kids had).



09202005, 12:05 PM

#11

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Buckley AFB, CO
Posts: 13,142

See I got 8 for the first answer and then 4 for the second one. 7 towels + 1 wet towel is 8 towels, therefore leaving 4 kids without towels.
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09202005, 12:07 PM

#12

Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SE Wisconsin on Lake Michigan!
Posts: 3,104

I don't get why the 2nd answer was 4 either. Just because your towel is wet doesn't mean you don't have one!
My DS is in 5th and I've never seen word problems written so poorly as the ones you presented in your original post. The 2nd question should have said something to the effect of 'one kid didn't have a towel because it was wet, how many kids didn't have a towel to use'. That would indicate that you count the wet towel as not having a towel. Just because I have all of my towels in the washer and they are wet doesn't mean that I don't have towels!
I never liked word problems!



09202005, 12:15 PM

#13

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 60,495

Quote:
Originally Posted by photocropper
Well I got the same answer for the first question.
HOWEVER The second question I did not get the same answer as the teacher did....
The question was how many do not have towels ? correct??
Would that not be 5??
It did not ask anything about the wet towels just the number of children without towels?????

That is exactly what I thought. Unless it was typed here differently than on the test, there was no question of how many wet towels there are. I would have answered 5.
And I would have said 8 for the first one.
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09202005, 12:15 PM

#14

Matboard Maniac
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 226

For the second question, what if one of the seven towels that kids have is the wet towel. That is not specified.
Let me tell you where I'm coming from. I have a degree in Mathematics and have taught 7th grade math, Algebra, Geometry, and currently, Algebra II.
And, the first question has to be 8 kids in the pool.
2x + x = 12
3x = 12
x = 4
2x = 8
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09202005, 12:20 PM

#15

Abbelicious
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: home of the stamping viking goddess
Posts: 40,474

I say 8 for the first answer and 5 for the second. It says 7 kids have towels one towel is wet. Who cares if the towqel is wet, the kid still has a towel, there are 7 towels so that leaves 5 kids w/out.
What stupid questions.
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09202005, 02:45 PM

#16

Gabfest Goddess
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: officially single again and BACK in PA!!!
Posts: 7,839

If there are 12 kids, 7 have towels and one is wet (one of the 7 towels is wet) then 5 children do not have towels. The being wet has nothing to do do with the word problem it's just thrown in to confuse. Classic math problem.
I'm glad the teacher corrected HER mistakes! However the answer to #4 the way it's written is 5 towels not 4 LOL!
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09202005, 06:45 PM

#17

Mad Swapper
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,763

Since the teacher admitted to grading the papers late at night and made a mistake, we may, also, conclude that she made up the test late at night....thus, the poor wording of the story problems. I would keep close watch over your child's work this year!



09202005, 06:54 PM

#18

Die Cut Diva
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,872

Let's hope so because I was worried that I was having trouble with grade 4 math!
Quote:
Originally Posted by instcollector
Since the teacher admitted to grading the papers late at night and made a mistake, we may, also, conclude that she made up the test late at night....thus, the poor wording of the story problems. I would keep close watch over your child's work this year!




09202005, 07:04 PM

#19

Forum Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Paradise
Posts: 9,874

CandC'smom has it right about the first problem... but here is how the teacher came up with 3...
2x + x = 12
(she didn't add the x's together first)
divide each side by 2
x + x = 6
(now she simplified)
2x = 6
divide again by 2 to isolate the variable
x = 3
BUT that is still wrong because it is TWICE as many so really following that logic, it would be 6 kids in the pool and 3 not  which makes for a wrong answer when you plug everything back in to the original equation...
2x + x = 12
2(3) + 3 does not = 12
The second answer is definitely 5... poorly worded question if the correct answer is 4!!
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09202005, 07:09 PM

#20

SCS Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 21,298

Quote:
2x + x = 12
(she didn't add the x's together first)
divide each side by 2
x + x = 6
(now she simplified)
2x = 6
divide again by 2 to isolate the variable
x = 3

that can't be right because of this step:
Quote:
divide each side by 2
x + x = 6

If you divided 2x + x=12 by 2, you would get
x + 1/2 x= 6 NOT x + x = 6 (you need to divide the whole thing by 2, not just the first 2x, but also the "1x")
so x would still equal 4
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09202005, 07:13 PM

#21

Forum Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Paradise
Posts: 9,874

Quote:
Originally Posted by camsmom
that can't be right because of this step:
If you divided 2x + x=12 by 2, you would get
x + 1/2 x= 6 NOT x + x = 6 (you need to divide the whole thing by 2, not just the first 2x, but also the "1x")
so x would still equal 4

Right... she didn't divide the second X by 2... miscalculation on her part... it didn't work anyway when plugging it back in to the original equation.
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09202005, 07:19 PM

#22

Crimping Master
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,011

I'm glad it worked out
I work in a school and Yes...teachers do make mistakes. I'm glad you took the time to write a note and wait for the answer....after a long day it's easy to go crosseyed when you're grading papers at home. You'll be a good role model to your daughter to show her that things can be worked out!
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09202005, 07:59 PM

#23

Diversified Multicultural Postmodern Deconstructionist Philogian
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sitting on the hot rock
Posts: 30,703

I'm terrible in math and still managed to come up with 8 for the first question and 5 for the second.
Rainsong
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09202005, 08:07 PM

#24

Forum Fanatic
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 9,351

I, too, was a teacher (high school English), and we are all capable of making mistakes. I can't tell you how many times when I numbered my questions that I would misnumber (which is why I majored in English, not Math, and why I am totally confused by all of your X's Britta)!!!!
But I do think it is a tad rude to assume that because she was up grading papers late at night and this one test is poorly worded that Lisa needs to watch her child's work this year (we should watch anyway, but not to assume the teacher is going to make a ton of mistakes). And we definitely canNOT assume that she wrote the test at night.
That test could have easily been a test from the textbook (they are usually pretty difficult to get), or she could have just screwed up when writing it at noon. I have made up tests before and the questions seemed pretty clear to me, but then a student will read them in ways that I hadn't forseen. That is the difficulty of the written word (which we should all realize from this site).
Yes, there were several nights that I had to grade papers at midnight, but I don't know of many jobs where you take your work home and don't get paid for it. Teachers do have lives outside of the classroom, and sometimes papers have to be graded late at night just to get done. So I really don't see the problem with her making a mistake becaue she was grading late at night. She admitted and fixed the problem. A really bad teacher would have denied the error.
And I, too, was a stickler for complete sentences and correct wording for answers. It helps the students to learn to state exactly what they mean to say.
Disclaimer: This teacher may really be awful, but from this one incident, I don't think we should make assumptions or draw conclusions about her teaching, testmaking, or grading abilities.
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11202005, 07:32 PM

#25

Polyshrink Goddess
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 617

I've never been good with word problems so I didn't even attempt to figure out the answers. As for the grading...........my daughters teacher counts points off for not having the last name on the paper or the teachers name for the paper. They have to write their name (first/last, teachers name, date, & their student # in the class on the top of EVERY paper). My dd NEVER writes her last name, I've told her over & over to write her last name, she says I'm the only Stephanie in the class & she knows who she is, why do I have to write my last name or hers(she put last inital once & was deducted points). KIDS...........but it's getting frustrating since my daughter is slightly dyslexic & every point matters for her. She's in 5th by the way. Missi



01252006, 04:53 AM

#26

Glitter Queen
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11

i know this may be a late reply but i joint today and itd annoy me if i didnt try to answer this so here goes...the towel question asks...12 children..7 had towels but 1 was wet,how many didnt have towels.it wouldnt matter if 1 was ripped and 1 was short or long or round it stills boils down to the fact 7 had so 5 never.but the math question asks of 12 children double the amount were in rather than out and that must ob state there were 8 in.i think maybe that teacher hadnt had a cup of coffee that morn so i personally would go in and ask her to her face the question,answer and how she attained the answer.also i dont know what fourth grade is as we say years in england and they keep changing the way that works i just cant keep up with all the change.hope you sorted it out..x..



04252006, 01:39 PM

#27

Kookie Creator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 463

I hope I don't get this bent out of shape over this kind of stuff when I have kids. It seems like you were more concerned with being right than anything else. People all make mistakes. Yikes!



04252006, 02:05 PM

#28

SCS Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Severna Park, MD
Posts: 21,298

wow7 months have passedhow did this thread pop back up?
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Last edited by camsmom; 04252006 at 02:08 PM..



04252006, 02:38 PM

#29

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,447

What grade is this???
Question 1 was an algebric equation.
The solution ends up as 4 kids are in the pool.
Question 2 seemed like a simple subtraction problem. I also did not see any mention of 'wet' towels for the answer, just how many did not have towels. 12  7 = 5 kids don't have towels
Was this a test? If so, typically partial credit is given all the way through some college classes.
Last edited by EleeK; 04252006 at 02:45 PM..



04252006, 02:44 PM

#30

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 18,589

I just found this thread, and though I did not try to solve either problem, it totally cracks me up that there have been some 21 posts made trying to figure things out after the OP noted that the situation was resolved. LOL.
I understand why... I just think it's funny that the thread hasn't died yet! rofl.
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04252006, 02:45 PM

#31

Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 18,589

Quote:
Originally Posted by camsmom
wow7 months have passedhow did this thread pop back up?

OK... totally missed that. Now it's even funnier!!
bwa ha ha ha!!!!!
lmao!
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