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Old 08-12-2008, 02:05 PM   #3881
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Hi Denise! It took a while, but I think I finally guessed the state.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:07 PM   #3882
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Hi Denise,

I was just commenting on the comments that were being made at another post....sometimes I would really love to just jump in and make some remarks, but as the saying goes..."some things are better left unsaid" and I would rather coexist in a harmonious way, rather than stir up the pot. Besides, I come here for a few reasons, one being able to JOKE around with some others *pointing at SophineLafontaine*...there are a lot of ladies that have really good senses of humors....oh....and then of course there is stamping!

I live in a very religious community with few friends...there is some entertainment value here for me....

I love this thread because we can all talk theories other than the bible and the dude with the robe and sandals.

Now, let me sit back, and sip on my lime slushie from Sonic!

Sandra
I went to school with him Seriously UC Santa Cruz. Always wore his robe to classes
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:08 PM   #3883
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*pointing back at Sandra*

Is your son still interested in going to church?

My mom tries to get me to go to church about once or twice every month, but I am never interested.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:11 PM   #3884
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Victoria, I love your baby's bald head (in your avatar)!
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:38 PM   #3885
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*pointing back at Sandra*

Is your son still interested in going to church?

My mom tries to get me to go to church about once or twice every month, but I am never interested.
Well, we certainly haven't mentioned it...neither has he thankfully...he is preoccupied with "bad guys" at this time.

As I kid our family all went to church...my dad searched and searched for a church that would allow him to smoke. Church was a big thing for him because he was in the funeral business. Hobnobbing with the ministers was in the funeral directors best interest.....

Talking with my dad recently...he doesn't buy into the big guy anymore...

I think that turning point for me and religion was when I got "caught" whistling in church...and I was chastised before I got to about the third note...."You don't whistle in the house of the Lord"! I honestly could not believe what I was hearing! I thought...."what, God doesn't like whistling"? "How sad"

*whistling off*.......into the sunset.....

Sandra

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Old 08-12-2008, 02:40 PM   #3886
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I went to school with him Seriously UC Santa Cruz. Always wore his robe to classes
*chuckling out loud*....I just read your comment!

Like SophieLafontaine....I love that bald head too! When my son was born I was so afraid that he was going to have a head full of hair!

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Old 08-12-2008, 04:16 PM   #3887
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Victoria, I love your baby's bald head (in your avatar)!
Thank you. He's such a love. Just turned six months and already weighs almost 18 lbs!
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:53 PM   #3888
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Sophie,

Thank you for your sweet words in the gallery. To have someone of your artistic stature say my card is awesome, well, it's AWESOME!

Thanks bunches.

Rainsong
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:58 PM   #3889
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Where do I fit in? Intellectually, I don't think Jesus is a divine being, but the other day, watching "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" there is a scene in a gospel church, and I find tears falling down my face and wanting to believe. A few years ago, at a church group I attended with a guy I have known forever, I started answering the questions posed by the minister, in such a fashion that they offered to send me to seminary - I went for a visit and felt as if I was walking in a demented, demonic place. I ran like heck. God doesn't trouble me - as supreme being, energy, whatever one calls it - I don't have trouble with a God presence. But I am so torn - my brain thinks one way, my heart reacts in another. Anyone else have this trouble?
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:41 PM   #3890
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Well, Laurie, I will admit it. I want badly for there to be a God or another life after this one, or some purpose, or a reason for it all...whatever. I am moved by love and beauty and kindness and I want to believe that there is a reason. (And I want to believe that I will see my Dad again) But at the same time I accept that there might not be, and I won't know during this life. But I hate what religion does to people; I feel that religion ruins the beauty of the idea of God. I learned in Sociology that Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and I believe that without reservation. It is easy to let someone else think for you, and religion does that.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:46 PM   #3891
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Laurie, how nice that you've found us and feel comfortable sharing your thoughts. I think of you all the time. How are you and your DS doing?

Dont' feel like you need to answer just know I"m thinking of you.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:05 PM   #3892
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This is the question that really really makes me wonder too. The physists say that energy changes form but never goes away. A light bulb is turned off or a plug pulled out-the current or stream of the energy stops but it is still there waiting to the turn of the swich or the return of the plug. We die- our hearts fail or brain stops being able to have conscious processes- where does the energy go? My atheist friend says that death is it- it is over and I won't know it so forget it but somehow I still find myself wondering.
I think the energy of the body is released into the earth in decomposition. Fertilizing the flowers in a way....

You're probably thinking more about the "spirit" or "soul" - but that isn't going to be addressed by physicists, ya know?
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:23 PM   #3893
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Laurie, I also cry all the time at watching movies. For some people when they have something really devasting happen, they reach out at something.
Maybe there really is something there. Maybe there isn't. But if works for them at the time, what the heck. We all need something to get us through the tough times. sometimes I think that is why God was "invented". sometimes I think maybe there is a god and he's testing us. I just don't know
and I want to BE me.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:26 PM   #3894
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I have a dear friend who is not at all religious but told me she feels better thinking her parents are someplace watching over her.

I asked her if they also watch her when she's in the bathroom, on the toilet, making love with her DH, etc.

Of course not - it's just a little trick we tell ourselves to ease the pain of loss.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:38 AM   #3895
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Anybody remember the movie Corina Corina with Whoopie Goldberg? The little girl has lost her mother and her father tells her there is no heaven or god or something, it is just for people to feel better and the little girl says "what is wrong with that?"
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:41 AM   #3896
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Sewsplendid, I think I found this thread a long time ago and read it sometimes, may have even posted a long time ago, but always feel more at home here, as a possible christian, than i do in threads with REAL christians!!! Muddy Otter makes me think and I really like a lot of the posters in this thread. Thanks for the welcome. DS is doing ok and so am I, all things considered!!! Thanks for asking.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:00 AM   #3897
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Earlier this year, my mom died, and just before she died, she read "ninety minutes in heaven" and our entire family tree book (a one inch + thick book that traces her father's family all the way back ...). She was always of strong faith, and I am of the mind that you go where you expect to go when your body dies. she expected to go to heaven, she is there, whatever her vision was of heaven. She always said we lived hell on earth.

The way psychology describes schizophrenia is also how one can describe religion, belief in the unseen kind of thing.

How about the time I was walking in my yard, years before divorce, very unhappy, and I felt/heard : "you are not alone" - I searched everywhere for a person who could have said that - NOBODY in the vicinity. But it was the rose bush called golden showers that the voice came out near...I am irreverent and blasphemes. And so perplexed. Thanks for listening.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:19 AM   #3898
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Where do I fit in? Intellectually, I don't think Jesus is a divine being, but the other day, watching "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" there is a scene in a gospel church, and I find tears falling down my face and wanting to believe. A few years ago, at a church group I attended with a guy I have known forever, I started answering the questions posed by the minister, in such a fashion that they offered to send me to seminary - I went for a visit and felt as if I was walking in a demented, demonic place. I ran like heck. God doesn't trouble me - as supreme being, energy, whatever one calls it - I don't have trouble with a God presence. But I am so torn - my brain thinks one way, my heart reacts in another. Anyone else have this trouble?
For me, one of the hardest things about finding myself unable to stop believing, and the strongest argument against religion as an institution, involves the cruelty and bullying involved in so much of religious life. It's not just the big stuff--Crusades, Spanish Inquistion, forced isolation and/or conversion native and aboriginal races and attempts to exterminate their beliefs--but the ongoing small cruelties: the person who thinks it's 'helpful' to tell someone who's just lost a beloved non-Christian person, deeply loved in their lives, that 'it's too bad you won't see X in heaven because they didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.' Or preoccupation with the sexual behavior of others (ie, gay relationships, pharmacists refusing to dispense birth control) with so much judgment and unkindness. I accept that one of the challenges of faith involves living--and worshipping--in community with others. But when it comes to Christianity, I can't help wishing that more believers would stop pointing fingers at others they consider offensive, and spend more time asking honest questions and looking within.

I guess I feel that at their best, faith, belief and/or religion encourage a meditative, greater deep awareness and acceptance of the world as it is--both in all its beauty and joy, and all its cruelty and despair--and a commitment on the part of the believer to do all they can, both in service to others around them and to the world at large; appreciation and gratitude for the world's goodness and blessings, and for the individual love and basic comforts of one's own life; and finally--and centrally--a greater degree of introspection on the part of the believer regarding their own faults, and a commitment to work to overcome them. Not those physical, makeover-type flaws but the deeper matters of character: envy, pettiness, judgment, and anger, all of which perpetuate so much unhappiness not only for the believer but for those around her or him. So that belief becomes not so much a matter of compelling others to convert as it does a matter of living, down to the core, quietly, without any pomp or boasting, what one believes. And letting one's life, commitment to service, and inner calm all honor what the believer sees as divine.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:15 AM   #3899
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Hey Sally good to see you back.

Denise nice to "meet" you.
Thanks Victoria...I'm usually lurking around here at least once a week...just don't always have time to post, but I'm getting my email updates!

BTW, could your avatar be any cuter!!!???
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:20 AM   #3900
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Well, Laurie, I will admit it. I want badly for there to be a God or another life after this one, or some purpose, or a reason for it all...whatever. I am moved by love and beauty and kindness and I want to believe that there is a reason. (And I want to believe that I will see my Dad again) But at the same time I accept that there might not be, and I won't know during this life. But I hate what religion does to people; I feel that religion ruins the beauty of the idea of God. I learned in Sociology that Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and I believe that without reservation. It is easy to let someone else think for you, and religion does that.
I can soooo relate to this! I miss my mom and also hope to "see" her again. Right after she died I couldn't even dream of her without her being dead or a ghost in the dream. That has only changed slightly. Now I sometimes have dreams that she is apparent in them, but not really present...at least she's not dead! It's pretty funky, but I don't remember most of my dreams lately. Too much coffee!? hehehe
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:30 AM   #3901
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Anybody remember the movie Corina Corina with Whoopie Goldberg? The little girl has lost her mother and her father tells her there is no heaven or god or something, it is just for people to feel better and the little girl says "what is wrong with that?"
Is it wrong that the only thing I remember about that movie is that Ray Liotta was HOT!?
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:36 AM   #3902
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Thanks Victoria...I'm usually lurking around here at least once a week...just don't always have time to post, but I'm getting my email updates!

BTW, could your avatar be any cuter!!!???
Nope. He's as cute as can be
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:12 AM   #3903
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I can soooo relate to this! I miss my mom and also hope to "see" her again. Right after she died I couldn't even dream of her without her being dead or a ghost in the dream. That has only changed slightly. Now I sometimes have dreams that she is apparent in them, but not really present...at least she's not dead! It's pretty funky, but I don't remember most of my dreams lately. Too much coffee!? hehehe
Right after my Dad died, my sister and I both had dreams where we "discovered" he was alive and frantically asked the mortician to get "that stuff" out of him and put his blood back. Gross & creepy, I know, but so weird that we both had the same dream. I have had dreams with him in them ever since, and he is always alive and it's like he never died. I love it when I have a dream like that...it's very comforting.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:19 AM   #3904
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envy, pettiness, judgment, and anger, all of which perpetuate so much unhappiness not only for the believer but for those around her or him. So that belief becomes not so much a matter of compelling others to convert as it does a matter of living, down to the core, quietly, without any pomp or boasting, what one believes. And letting one's life, commitment to service, and inner calm all honor what the believer sees as divine.


Jane, I am awed by you. You always seem to say what I feel, and your perspective is amazing. Thank you for your insight. This quote it wonderful. It made me think of a wonderful woman I worked with this year...she quietly lives her Christian convictions and doesn't wear them on her sleeve and try and make everyone else believe like her, and I have so much respect for that kind of faith.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:14 PM   #3905
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Jane, really, you are so eloquent and can put into words the thoughts I have had and been unable to express. Thank you for your gift of words.

Ray Liotta was hot in that movie!
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:07 PM   #3906
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Victoria, I love your baby's bald head (in your avatar)!
I agree...can't resist a baby with a giant bald, white head (my cousin was this kind of baby when I was in HS and my color guard friend and I could pick my family out of the crowd in the stands when we were on the field by his giant, white head! ) I also love the plaid hat. Too cute!
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:14 PM   #3907
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I think the energy of the body is released into the earth in decomposition. Fertilizing the flowers in a way....

You're probably thinking more about the "spirit" or "soul" - but that isn't going to be addressed by physicists, ya know?
I don't ususally have conversations about faith with believers, it just makes me uncomfortable, but I had one with two science teachers last week. They wondered about where the energy in the brain goes, and all I could think about was this quote...it just aids in the decomposition.

I think you are saying that the brain and the spirit/soul are two separate things? That is a big concept to wrap one's brain around!
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:44 PM   #3908
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I don't ususally have conversations about faith with believers, it just makes me uncomfortable, but I had one with two science teachers last week. They wondered about where the energy in the brain goes, and all I could think about was this quote...it just aids in the decomposition.

I think you are saying that the brain and the spirit/soul are two separate things? That is a big concept to wrap one's brain around!
Well, I think I'm saying that they are separate IF you believe in them.

I'm thinking if there's no god, there's no soul. Right? Not that we're "soulless minions" (is that from some movie?) but just that it's a made-up concept.

We know the brain exists, but the soul... when I was little, I thought it was on my left shoulder. Don't ask me why, I don't know.

If there's not God, there's no need of the soul. Everything is just chemistry.... Feelings are chemistry too, right? So much we don't understand.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:01 AM   #3909
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Sophie,

Thank you for your sweet words in the gallery. To have someone of your artistic stature say my card is awesome, well, it's AWESOME!

Thanks bunches.

Rainsong
Well Rainsong, it was a pleasure first to see it, and then an additional one when I realized YOU had made it! And thank YOU for the compliment!!
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:14 AM   #3910
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Can anyone explain what a soul is (or, if they don't exist, what they're supposed to be)? Or a spirit. I've read the dictionary (many dictionaries). I don't understand, and have never understood. Pastors and Sunday School teachers keep trying to tell me that it is the "core" of what I am.. well, to me that would be my mind and the sum of my thoughts, feelings, and preferences. But they kept saying no, it's what you are when all that is taken away. Well... for ME anyway... um, that would be ...NOTHING. Nothing would be left if all that was taken away (speaking for myself only).

And they always use the example of "well, if your hand got chopped off, you would still be you" so I understand how it is not the body, but I don't understand how there can be something separate (like a soul or spirit [are they the same thing??]) from the mind.

Edited to add: This was prompted by Barb's post #3907; shoulda pushed the <quote> button instead of just starting to type
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:24 AM   #3911
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Sophie, in reference to loosing a hand but still being ok, that is just fine for a hand, but you can't loose your brain and still be ok. I don't believe there is a soul/spirit, just an accumulation of experience which is stored in the brain, which when damaged or dead takes the experiences (and thus "me") with it.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:24 AM   #3912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
Can anyone explain what a soul is (or, if they don't exist, what they're supposed to be)? Or a spirit. I've read the dictionary (many dictionaries). I don't understand, and have never understood. Pastors and Sunday School teachers keep trying to tell me that it is the "core" of what I am.. well, to me that would be my mind and the sum of my thoughts, feelings, and preferences. But they kept saying no, it's what you are when all that is taken away. Well... for ME anyway... um, that would be ...NOTHING. Nothing would be left if all that was taken away (speaking for myself only).

And they always use the example of "well, if your hand got chopped off, you would still be you" so I understand how it is not the body, but I don't understand how there can be something separate (like a soul or spirit [are they the same thing??]) from the mind.

Edited to add: This was prompted by Barb's post #3907; shoulda pushed the <quote> button instead of just starting to type
My own perception is the soul is what makes you 'you.' Thoughts, emotions, life experiences, conscience all stirred together make you unique from every other person.

Ever hear of the Guf? The Hall of Souls. The Talmud teaches the Messiah will not appear until the Guf is empty of souls. With my theory of "soul," the hall will never be empty even if souls are recycled (reincarnation) because old souls would continue to have new experiences with each successive life, thus transforming the "soul."

Okay, may not be the most rational line of thought...but it's early yet and I haven't finished my second cuppa.

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Old 08-23-2008, 09:14 AM   #3913
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Okay, coolness. Karen, about losing a brain, if my DH could read your post, he'd mutter that I'd already lost my mind. *grin*

Rainsong, no, I've never heard of the Guf. What IS your theory of souls?

Well anyway, I completely understand what both of you are saying a soul (or the "me") is. Everything all together, not Nothing. Thanks!
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:48 AM   #3914
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Morning ladies. We sure are deep thinkers in here today.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:49 AM   #3915
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Well I should rephrase that . You all are some deep thinkers. I'm excited Survivor is starting soon. not so deep.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:13 AM   #3916
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Quote:
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Well I should rephrase that . You all are some deep thinkers. I'm excited Survivor is starting soon. not so deep.
Ooooh, with only watching my DVR of Olympics, I totally missed that. I'll be excited with you
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:18 AM   #3917
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September 18. ANd Prison Break starts Sept 1
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:20 AM   #3918
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Wentworth Miller. Now he might make me believe in god. At least exclaim his name once or twice

http://www.thoreast.com/graphics/wen...ler_people.jpg
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:23 AM   #3919
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I'm "watching tv" too. Through the internet; channel France24 (news). We pay $80 for DirectTV (mainly for DH's soccer coverage) and no French TV!! Argh!!! I have to get my French TV through the internet!!!
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:31 AM   #3920
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Sophie I love your blog. I need to bookmark it so I go regularly. May I add it to the blog list on my blog?
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