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Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3inva
I dont' know what label would fit me. I am open to all possibilities. I think that organized religions are clubs that were started to fill a need by people to control, to belong...... The part that I really disike about org relig is the need for them to be "the all knowing right one" . I see spiituality or lack thereof as an issue of respect- we all need to respect the right of the other to excerise his/ her mind to think and to have the evolution of their thinking experience however they want. I have a friend- an absolute extreme atheist who spends a great deal of time pontificating as to how Christians are bizzare- that was of thinking offends me- not because I agree in the C way of thinking but because of the respect issue- why does anyone have to be right?
I ponder all of the possibilities and in the end I am okay with the current determination that I have no idea what is or isn't out there.
I think that makes you sort of agnostic?
Wiki gives this "definition" -
Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.
Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and non-religious people, using 'agnostic' in the newer sense of 'noncommittal'. However, this can be misleading given the existence of agnostic theists, who identify themselves as both agnostics in the original sense and followers of a particular religion.
.................................................. .........
Does that help any?
Personally I agree with you about organized religion. I believe it was put together to "control" people to an extent. I think it stays because it also gives power to some.
My personal feeling about god is that if he exists, he's so vast and all encompassing - not this guy up there who's keeping tabs - that whether we kneel or prostrate ourselves "the right way" or what prayers we say, or songs we sing - is immaterial. So I concluded that the personal god of most religions is a myth.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
I should have read this thread before posting a new one! i just wanted people to realize not all scs are catholic and christian. so be it if they are - just realize not everyone is!
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,988
Hi Dawn? Welcome to the thread. Of course you made me go look at the thread you started, but I didn't post anything since you found different people here.
I know when I first came here, it seemed like everybody had scripture in their siggies.
I tend to stay in CE when I'm not here or chatting. Keeps me out of trouble.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
for what it's worth - i'm a "hardcore" believer - but i have tons of "heathern" friends.
i don't hide teh fact that i'm doing some church function but i don't think (guys help me out here) that i've been on the conversion warpath to them.
it IS possible to "co-exist" peacefully.
It is possible to "co-exist" peacefully. I'm surrounded by southern baptists. I don't mind my christian friends talking about events at church, the wonderful sermon that was preached, etc. I just don't want to be converted. I also don't want to debate, so I generally just don't talk about religion.
Must be part of the bible belt??
Restaurants have prayers on the wall, mailboxes extoll the virtues of God, I was surprised at how different and much much more religious, and how much more intertwined religion was than where I live only 4-5 hours away.
Glad to be home, lol
__________________ Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth or the only truth. -Charles Anderson Dana
Whereas someone who very much wants to live with kindness, compassion, generosity and gentleness will find that also, whether it's in religion or in living ethically.
I always feel sad anyone feels the need to pity or belittle others--for me doing so on religious grounds not only disrespects nonbelievers, it also disrespects God, because it sort of says 'well, what's going on here doesn't conform to my ideas of how people should be living, that's really sad,' instead of understanding that the world may be far more mysterious and beyond our comprehension than we realize, believers or not.
Jane, this is all so well-put. I just don't think that people have to have a religion to behave ethically, but so many seem to think that religion and morals are mutually exclusive--you can't have one without the other. And I don't want to be pitied for not believing in religion because my life is completely full and wonderful without it--hey I stamp right?
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
My personal feeling about god is that if he exists, he's so vast and all encompassing - not this guy up there who's keeping tabs - that whether we kneel or prostrate ourselves "the right way" or what prayers we say, or songs we sing - is immaterial. So I concluded that the personal god of most religions is a myth.
When I was a little girl, I used to ride someplace in the car and picture this being sitting in the clouds with his fingers on all the cars guiding them to their destinations. Then I would see dozens of cars and wonder how he could do that. Even then that idea seemed strange, but now the idea of one being controlling 7 billion people, as well as the rest of the universe just seems absurd!
However I do often marvel at the ways that things seem to be connected. Does anyone have any thoughts?
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
What part of Ohio did you visit? Was it Southern? Was it rural? I grew up and lived in Ohio, right next to Akron, until I was 25, and I had no sense of Bible Belt. People did not ask us to visit their church, there was no prayer in the workplace or in school, and I did not know anyone, personally, who went to church every Sunday. But this was Northeast Ohio, and Southern Ohio is a whole different country!
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
Why is it so easy for Christians to think that people who become agnostic/atheist will suddenly go mad and start stealing and cheating and murdering. Like that is going to change our essential nature?
I think people are afraid- they are afraid to believe or think for themselves therefore nonbelievers scare the heck out of them- it's more than they can handle. Very sad really since the whole concept of ethics and morality goes way beyond belief in particular god/s. Some of the most serious bible busters I know are the most immoral and have the lowest level of ethic. I understand that an atheist is feared by others or deemed a certain type of person but hey- shouldn't you be able to hold your head up high and relish the freedom to think whatever you want- we answer only to ourselves. I view all aspects of life as big zero to ten scales that are filled in with all types of extremes and everything in between.
When I was a little girl, I used to ride someplace in the car and picture this being sitting in the clouds with his fingers on all the cars guiding them to their destinations. Then I would see dozens of cars and wonder how he could do that. Even then that idea seemed strange, but now the idea of one being controlling 7 billion people, as well as the rest of the universe just seems absurd!
However I do often marvel at the ways that things seem to be connected. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Yes I too ponder what energy lies out there and it seems there is something even if it boils down to pure chemistry and physics. I like the concept of coming back so I try watch my karma!!!!!! I enjoy aspects of the Eastern religions and I love the ideas of the Native American Gods. The whole idea of heaven is beyond my reach- not that I would not want a really nice place to live but the discusssions about it are too out there.
Yes I too ponder what energy lies out there and it seems there is something even if it boils down to pure chemistry and physics. I like the concept of coming back so I try watch my karma!!!!!! I enjoy aspects of the Eastern religions and I love the ideas of the Native American Gods. The whole idea of heaven is beyond my reach- not that I would not want a really nice place to live but the discusssions about it are too out there.
When I was discussing agnosticism with my 28yr old DD, I said I'd like to believe that there is some kind of energy or something that connects everything, but I don't know... She said, "You mean like "the force" - but not as nerdy? lol Gave me a chuckle...
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Last edited by tigerlily55; 08-11-2008 at 02:49 PM..
Reason: punctuation
What part of Ohio did you visit? Was it Southern? Was it rural? I grew up and lived in Ohio, right next to Akron, until I was 25, and I had no sense of Bible Belt. People did not ask us to visit their church, there was no prayer in the workplace or in school, and I did not know anyone, personally, who went to church every Sunday. But this was Northeast Ohio, and Southern Ohio is a whole different country!
About 2 hours Southeast of Akron.
Fairly rural...
Definitely heavy on the God.
__________________ Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth or the only truth. -Charles Anderson Dana
When I was a little girl, I used to ride someplace in the car and picture this being sitting in the clouds with his fingers on all the cars guiding them to their destinations. Then I would see dozens of cars and wonder how he could do that. Even then that idea seemed strange, but now the idea of one being controlling 7 billion people, as well as the rest of the universe just seems absurd!
However I do often marvel at the ways that things seem to be connected. Does anyone have any thoughts?
I have thoughts.
I have never believed in god. I even remember being in second grade saying the Pledge of Allegiance and not saying "under god". So in that regard I never thought things like you stated didn't make sense because I would have never thought about it like that.
As for things seeming connected I think it's a few different things Like for one people like to find patterns and coincidences. And I also think as humans we all have a finite number of types of responses to a finite number of experiences, kwim? So there truly is so much commonality.
But again I'm the weird atheist who believes in ghosts but that's a whole nother issue
When I was discussing agnosticism with my 28yr old DD, I said I'd like to believe that there is some kind of energy or something that connects everything, but I don't know... She said, "You mean like "the force" - but not as nerdy? lol Gave me a chuckle...
ummmm, there is NOTHING nerdy about the Force, sheesh, some people.
I have never believed in god. I even remember being in second grade saying the Pledge of Allegiance and not saying "under god". So in that regard I never thought things like you stated didn't make sense because I would have never thought about it like that.
As for things seeming connected I think it's a few different things Like for one people like to find patterns and coincidences. And I also think as humans we all have a finite number of types of responses to a finite number of experiences, kwim? So there truly is so much commonality.
But again I'm the weird atheist who believes in ghosts but that's a whole nother issue
OK, I'll bite. So, you believe in an afterlife but not god? Or you believe in ghosts but not an afterlife?
Sorry if this is a bit off the current discussion but I'm curious!
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
OK, I'll bite. So, you believe in an afterlife but not god? Or you believe in ghosts but not an afterlife?
Sorry if this is a bit off the current discussion but I'm curious!
Yes- I agree- how can there be ghosts without some sort of transfer of energy or ongoing energy? Here's yet another concept for me to ponder!!! I am anxious to hear your ideas.
Interesting thoughts about the commonality and finiteness of experience- I had not thought about that possibility. Howver and with all due respect, quite honestly in my life of 54 years- just when I think I heard it all another whammy seems to strike!!!!!!! So for me that makes the absolute of limited experience theory a difficult one to grasp.
Ya know I believe in ghosts too, not to mention reincarnation. I used to have so many deja-voo experiences and that is what I felt deep down...like I was repeating an experience from a prior life. Weird huh!?
Ya know I believe in ghosts too, not to mention reincarnation. I used to have so many deja-voo experiences and that is what I felt deep down...like I was repeating an experience from a prior life. Weird huh!?
Not weird at all- I used to have the deja vu's a lot too- them seem less as I have gotten older- wonder if that because the old life is further away?????? I love vintage clothing & one time in Utah I saw clothes hanging at a yard sale- I picked up an awesome old hat & on the underside it had a label I kid you not with my name. I still have the hat!!!!!!!
OK, I'll bite. So, you believe in an afterlife but not god? Or you believe in ghosts but not an afterlife?
Sorry if this is a bit off the current discussion but I'm curious!
Ok the only way I can explain it in words because is more like a gut feeling to me is this..
I think that there is every possibility that the core of a person, the essence or energy for lack of a better term can hang around after the body dies. No I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't really believe in reincarnation but also don't discount it because there have been times I've met people that I feel like I've already known, yes it may just be that they are triggering some memory of a family member or past friend but who knows. I think it very presumptuous of me to assume that I know everything that there is possible in the world.
Here's another way I think about it. The "person" that someone is is separate from their body. If someone loses a limb they aren't less, if they become paralyzed they don't become less of who they are.
It also helps me think thru out of body experiences. There have been three times in my life that I have had dreams about places that I have NEVER been and then when I do get there it is exactly like my dream. Did my "person" go visit it? Does the human brain have all the possible knowledge in there and it's just a matter of who has it and how they can decipher the messages? Who know?
I guess ultimately I'm open to all types of possibilities regarding physiology, the power of thought (would that be considered prayer if it's not directed at one being?) and physical occurrences.
Have I thoroughly confused you and made you think I'm crazy?
Yes- I agree- how can there be ghosts without some sort of transfer of energy or ongoing energy? Here's yet another concept for me to ponder!!! I am anxious to hear your ideas.
Interesting thoughts about the commonality and finiteness of experience- I had not thought about that possibility. Howver and with all due respect, quite honestly in my life of 54 years- just when I think I heard it all another whammy seems to strike!!!!!!! So for me that makes the absolute of limited experience theory a difficult one to grasp.
First let me say that I kinda understand what you are saying but with two little ones making noise behind me and the coffee not kicking in yet I'm a little lost. Are you saying you think you've experienced all that you can then something else happens and throws you for a loop? Sorry I'm dense this morning eve tho I did get 5 blissful hours of sleep in a row before the baby was hungry
I was going to say something else and it escaped me sorry. I'll come back to it if I get it back.
Ok the only way I can explain it in words because is more like a gut feeling to me is this..
I think that there is every possibility that the core of a person, the essence or energy for lack of a better term can hang around after the body dies. No I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't really believe in reincarnation but also don't discount it because there have been times I've met people that I feel like I've already known, yes it may just be that they are triggering some memory of a family member or past friend but who knows. I think it very presumptuous of me to assume that I know everything that there is possible in the world.
Here's another way I think about it. The "person" that someone is is separate from their body. If someone loses a limb they aren't less, if they become paralyzed they don't become less of who they are.
It also helps me think thru out of body experiences. There have been three times in my life that I have had dreams about places that I have NEVER been and then when I do get there it is exactly like my dream. Did my "person" go visit it? Does the human brain have all the possible knowledge in there and it's just a matter of who has it and how they can decipher the messages? Who know?
I guess ultimately I'm open to all types of possibilities regarding physiology, the power of thought (would that be considered prayer if it's not directed at one being?) and physical occurrences.
Have I thoroughly confused you and made you think I'm crazy?
No, not crazy... Just a little weird I get the energy, the essence or whatever still existing after death although I'm not sure what purpose that would serve. Just hanging out in a big mosh pit somewhere out in space?
I always wonder about the seeing someplace you dreamed about and realizing it was the same. I'm not sure if that's ever happened to me. I always kind of put that down to something being in your brain from something someone said, or something you heard, or read or saw on tv.
I mean that's kind of what made me start to question religion was I never had these "transcendent" experiences that other people talked about. Unlike Pat Robertson and George Bush, I've never felt god talking to me.
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
First let me say that I kinda understand what you are saying but with two little ones making noise behind me and the coffee not kicking in yet I'm a little lost. Are you saying you think you've experienced all that you can then something else happens and throws you for a loop? Sorry I'm dense this morning eve tho I did get 5 blissful hours of sleep in a row before the baby was hungry
I was going to say something else and it escaped me sorry. I'll come back to it if I get it back.
""And I also think as humans we all have a finite number of types of responses to a finite number of experiences, kwim? So there truly is so much commonality. ""
It is hard to explain isn't it- I think what I am trying to say is that I question whether there is a finite number of types of responses to experiences -I think this because while each of us is made up of essentially the same-each of us is so different in terms of our personal experiences- our emotional aspects- outlooks - interpretations and then the decisions that we make- in terms of the whole of it-everyone & everything around me- although there are patterns for sure- I have found that the only thing really predictable is the unpredictable. In asmuch as I have felt the spine tingling of the experience of --have I been here before or known you before- I am constantly blown away with- who would have thought that would happen or that s/he would do that!!!!!!
No, not crazy... Just a little weird I get the energy, the essence or whatever still existing after death although I'm not sure what purpose that would serve. Just hanging out in a big mosh pit somewhere out in space?
This is the question that really really makes me wonder too. The physists say that energy changes form but never goes away. A light bulb is turned off or a plug pulled out-the current or stream of the energy stops but it is still there waiting to the turn of the swich or the return of the plug. We die- our hearts fail or brain stops being able to have conscious processes- where does the energy go? My atheist friend says that death is it- it is over and I won't know it so forget it but somehow I still find myself wondering.
I don't know if any of you have seen this "Just mentioning" post...but I am watching from a far corner in the room...out of interest....with my shades on of course don't want anyone to recognize me.....
I don't know if any of you have seen this "Just mentioning" post...but I am watching from a far corner in the room...out of interest....with my shades on of course don't want anyone to recognize me.....
Sandra
I just reread the just mentioning post and your comment confuses me- has someone said something wrong because I sure don't see/hear it. It sounds as if you are proferring a threat or warning. Can you explain?
I just reread the just mentioning post and your comment confuses me- has someone said something wrong because I sure don't see/hear it. It sounds as if you are proferring a threat or warning. Can you explain?
Oh never mind- I have read your other posts & I seriously do not think I read your post in the proper context- sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know if any of you have seen this "Just mentioning" post...but I am watching from a far corner in the room...out of interest....with my shades on of course don't want anyone to recognize me.....
Sandra
Weren't you going to do that in church?
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
Oh never mind- I have read your other posts & I seriously do not think I read your post in the proper context- sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Denise,
I was just commenting on the comments that were being made at another post....sometimes I would really love to just jump in and make some remarks, but as the saying goes..."some things are better left unsaid" and I would rather coexist in a harmonious way, rather than stir up the pot. Besides, I come here for a few reasons, one being able to JOKE around with some others *pointing at SophineLafontaine*...there are a lot of ladies that have really good senses of humors....oh....and then of course there is stamping!
I live in a very religious community with few friends...there is some entertainment value here for me....
I love this thread because we can all talk theories other than the bible and the dude with the robe and sandals.
Now, let me sit back, and sip on my lime slushie from Sonic!
I was just commenting on the comments that were being made at another post....sometimes I would really love to just jump in and make some remarks, but as the saying goes..."some things are better left unsaid" and I would rather coexist in a harmonious way, rather than stir up the pot. Besides, I come here for a few reasons, one being able to JOKE around with some others *pointing at SophineLafontaine*...there are a lot of ladies that have really good senses of humors....oh....and then of course there is stamping!
I live in a very religious community with few friends...there is some entertainment value here for me....
I love this thread because we can all talk theories other than the bible and the dude with the robe and sandals.
Now, let me sit back, and sip on my lime slushie from Sonic!
Sandra
Things sometimes get lost in translation!!!! I hope you know that I am a very light hearted person myself!!!!!! I am just to quick to freak if I think someone is taking me too seriously at all since esp as I have said I am open to thinking!!!!!! I lived in an "unnamed" state for about 30 years- I went there back in the 70's as a skier- the state although not of the typical christian type has a major religion and they are very very very conservative and very righteous in their majority beliefs. I have never felt such repression as I felt there.
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Ghosts?
No offense...no warning...no threats here
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