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Old 02-26-2007, 12:53 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlett75
As most of you know, despite the fact that atheists and agnostics have left other Biblically based/Christian Chit-Chat threads alone, we are being watched. Not only that... but, there are certain people who are just waiting to pounce on any post even toeing the line of the TOS. So, please... keep discussions focused on a topic or issue, not on any person.

However, I have to say that whole point of having an atheist thread was to celebrate what it means to be an atheist. The whole point of an agnostic thread is to "learn" and discover, to gather knowledge (in regards to reliion). An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An agnostic is someone who is examining all of the information BOTH FOR AND AGAINST religion(s) and/or deities. So, for those lurking and expecting to see nothing but pro-Christian sentiments, you are clearly going to see something that offends you. If you have a problem with a position you see, then start a new thread and bring up your issue. Atheists have run-ins with individual Christians every day. Atheists run into theists every day. It should surprise no one that we will be discussing how these run-ins effect our lives.

The Bible thread talks about how wonderful the Bible is and how true it is. We are going to be discussing the opposite.
The Bible thread, and several other threads, presume that Christianity is the best approach to life.
We will be posing the opposite assertion.
The Bible thread posters congratulate each other on life and accomplishments, church callings, prayers, and other milestones.
We will be doing the same here.
That said, there are a number of incidents, in the Biblical threads, that paint non-believers in a less than flattering light. There's a presumption that those who don't believe are missing out or misguided. It should surprise no theist that we will be discussing the opposing statement: that theists are misguided. Theists make the presumption that atheists/agnostics are "lost". We are going to address this, probably over-and-over again, amongst atheists/agnosics. Just as you celebrate your faith as theists: we will be celebrating our freedom as atheists/agnostics.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:58 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlett75
As most of you know, despite the fact that atheists and agnostics have left other Biblically based/Christian Chit-Chat threads alone, we are being watched. Not only that... but, there are certain people who are just waiting to pounce on any post even toeing the line of the TOS. So, please... keep discussions focused on a topic or issue, not on any person.

However, I have to say that whole point of having an atheist thread was to celebrate what it means to be an atheist. The whole point of an agnostic thread is to "learn" and discover, to gather knowledge (in regards to reliion). An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An agnostic is someone who is examining all of the information BOTH FOR AND AGAINST religion(s) and/or deities. So, for those lurking and expecting to see nothing but pro-Christian sentiments, you are clearly going to see something that offends you. If you have a problem with a position you see, then start a new thread and bring up your issue. Atheists have run-ins with individual Christians every day. Atheists run into theists every day. It should surprise no one that we will be discussing how these run-ins effect our lives.

The Bible thread talks about how wonderful the Bible is and how true it is. We are going to be discussing the opposite.
The Bible thread, and several other threads, presume that Christianity is the best approach to life.
We will be posing the opposite assertion.
The Bible thread posters congratulate each other on life and accomplishments, church callings, prayers, and other milestones.
We will be doing the same here.
That said, there are a number of incidents, in the Biblical threads, that paint non-believers in a less than flattering light. There's a presumption that those who don't believe are missing out or misguided. It should surprise no theist that we will be discussing the opposing statement: that theists are misguided. Theists make the presumption that atheists/agnostics are "lost". We are going to address this, probably over-and-over again, amongst atheists/agnosics. Just as you celebrate your faith as theists: we will be celebrating our freedom as atheists/agnostics.


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Old 02-26-2007, 12:59 PM   #163
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I'm confused - I thought the Darwin fish meant you were a Christian but believed in evolution? Am I being thick here?

no- it's supposed to mean that you are against the religionist's views of the worl- the christians used to use a fish instead of a cross- some still do- you probabay know this already lol- so we take their view and put the evolutionists spin on it. I've not yet seen a christian who uses the darwin fish in that way but maybe some do? I think it likely in the US at least they would probabay be harassed for displaying it?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:04 PM   #164
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I'm confused - I thought the Darwin fish meant you were a Christian but believed in evolution? Am I being thick here?
You're not thick. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that- in England- the Darwin fish is used as you describe.
Here- in America- it's used as sort of the counter-bumper-sticker to the Jesus fish. Which, even I have a problem with that, since atheists aren't always evolutionists. But, generally, the Darwin fish is recognized as an atheist symbol on this side of the pond.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:04 PM   #165
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Quote:
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no- it's supposed to mean that you are against the religionist's views of the worl- the christians used to use a fish instead of a cross- some still do- you probabay know this already lol- so we take their view and put the evolutionists spin on it. I've not yet seen a christian who uses the darwin fish in that way but maybe some do? I think it likely in the US at least they would probabay be harassed for displaying it?
Yes I'm familiar with the fish (my Mum has one in her car) but don't think I've ever seen the Darwin one. I just put two and two together and came up with 14.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:05 PM   #166
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I think it likely in the US at least they would probabay be harassed for displaying it?
*nod*
Unfortunately, that's very true. In fact, I'll let her describe her experience, but there's someone on this thread who has had her property damaged because of her atheist car decor.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:06 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlett75
You're not thick. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that- in England- the Darwin fish is used as you describe.
Here- in America- it's used as sort of the counter-bumper-sticker to the Jesus fish. Which, even I have a problem with that, since atheists aren't always evolutionists. But, generally, the Darwin fish is recognized as an atheist symbol on this side of the pond.
Ah, two nations divided by a common fish. I don't know any atheists who aren't evolutionists, btw. However, I don't think I know any Christians IRL who are creationists, either.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:10 PM   #168
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Do any of you declared agnostics and athiests have any local groups or friends who think similarly as you do? I dont wanna join any 'anti' groups just find some folks who see the world in a similar light as I do. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #169
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In Austin Texas we have the Atheist Community of Austin. I used to be very active in the group but when I took up backpacking and hiking it left little time to participate.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:14 PM   #170
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Ah, two nations divided by a common fish. I don't know any atheists who aren't evolutionists, btw. However, I don't think I know any Christians IRL who are creationists, either.
I know of one atheist who is not an evolutionist. It's an odd position for an atheist to take... and, I don't understand his thought process. He's not exactly a Creationist, but he doesn't like the fact that evolution doesn't explain creation...so, he's tossed the baby out with the bathwater. Note: Evolution does not address creation...that falls to other theories. Evolution addresses the premise of a common ancestor and constantly evolving life.

I know many IRL Christians who are creationists.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:17 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Wasatch Wizard
Do any of you declared agnostics and athiests have any local groups or friends who think similarly as you do? I dont wanna join any 'anti' groups just find some folks who see the world in a similar light as I do. Anyone have any suggestions?
Move to England - where nobody really cares what you believe.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:20 PM   #172
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Do any of you declared agnostics and athiests have any local groups or friends who think similarly as you do? I dont wanna join any 'anti' groups just find some folks who see the world in a similar light as I do. Anyone have any suggestions?
I have an atheist blog that seems to have a great following of awesome people around the world. I'll pm the link to you.

Locally, for me, there are no atheist groups. LOL I live in probably the only predominantly Christian/Conservative area of California. I talked to a friend here who said that the last time Bakersfield tried to put together a group, they were LITERALLY chased out of the restaurant when a church group found out where their meeting was going to be held. The church group sat behind the atheist group and mocked them the whole meeting, then followed members home. That pretty much ended any public meetings.

The ACA (which Virginia mentioned) is fabulous. Even if you don't live in Austin, they have a great podcast and a great show.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:21 PM   #173
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Move to England - where nobody really cares what you believe.
I keep telling my hubby that I want to move to Switzerland or New Zealand.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:22 PM   #174
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I keep telling my hubby that I want to move to Switzerland or New Zealand.
Both sound lovely, although NZ doesn't have the language barrier. It's described as England 50 years ago before they "paved paradise..." etc.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:23 PM   #175
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Move to England - where nobody really cares what you believe.
Really? How cool is that!
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:24 PM   #176
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Do any of you declared agnostics and athiests have any local groups or friends who think similarly as you do? I dont wanna join any 'anti' groups just find some folks who see the world in a similar light as I do. Anyone have any suggestions?
I must admit, from an English perspective, I don't really understand this need because here we tend to keep our beliefs to ourselves and conflict doesn't tend to occur.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:25 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Bagpuss
I must admit, from an English perspective, I don't really understand this need because here we tend to keep our beliefs to ourselves and conflict doesn't tend to occur.
Think how much nicer our entire country would be if this were the case. *sigh*
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:28 PM   #178
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I have a close friend who's atheist, but we only manage to get together about once a month, as she has little ones and homeschools.

She homeschools because the public schools are "too Christian" for her.

As for her children, what does she teach them? Well, when they did world cultures, they did in-depth studies on ALL the world religions. They did Egypt and their culture and beliefs, Greek, India, China, they did Buddha and Hindus and various other ones I can't think of now. THEN they did Europe and Christianity - treating it just like any other world culture/religion.

She - and her kids - are very bright. When a bird died in their yard, her DD made a really cool sarcophagus out of a shoe box.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:30 PM   #179
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When a bird died in their yard, her DD made a really cool sarcophagus out of a shoe box.
When I see the word "sarcophagus" I always read "oesophagus". Conjures up some pretty weird images, I can tell you.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:55 PM   #180
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I must admit, from an English perspective, I don't really understand this need because here we tend to keep our beliefs to ourselves and conflict doesn't tend to occur.
It was that way here when I was growing up in Virginia...either that or I just wasnt paying much attention, lol. We moved to Utah a few years ago and needless to say alot centers around religion here...it is imbued into the culture so to speak!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:07 PM   #181
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mm that is pretty weird

the trouble with schooling over here is you more or less have to take what is nearest to you- my kids went to a Church of England school- so they had assemblies with prayer in the morning etc- manys the fights I had with the school about my kid's right to choose- I always had to write letters to get them excused from assembly and for attend church on certain days- at their choice mind- I always asked them. and in my sosn's Pagan phase he wore a pentacle to school on a silver chain and was shouted at by his teacher that he had to take it off as it was not in regulations - he said it was not a religious symbol- so litle old me wrote a very very long ,etter explaining the European Human Rights law- and they ended up apologising to my son. I think I got a reputation in the end - probabaly cos i also fought for my DD to wear trousers lol-- on one parents evening I had the religious studies teacher backed against the wall not able to asnwer questions about what other religions besides christianity he was going to teach. I remember I used to get letters from the school saying- we know your views on this Mrs king lol.
So- anyway- although it is not talked about as much over here there are still the underlying assumptions - which sometimes i think are worse- like Doublethink? from 1984.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:10 PM   #182
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was that post typo city or what??!! LOL
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:46 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasatch Wizard
Do any of you declared agnostics and athiests have any local groups or friends who think similarly as you do? I dont wanna join any 'anti' groups just find some folks who see the world in a similar light as I do. Anyone have any suggestions?

Actually, in my group of friends I am the only atheist.Most of my close friends are Christian. ((shrugs)) Our differing views have never been an issue.

Being a Navy veteran and a military spouse I have checked out this group:

http://www.maaf.info/index.html
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:44 PM   #184
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagpuss
When I see the word "sarcophagus" I always read "oesophagus". Conjures up some pretty weird images, I can tell you.
Well, we type that one without the o. Esophagus.

Which reminds me of a story. Brief hijack: I used to type up x-ray reports; the doctors dictated them and we typed em up. One of the doctors was Korean. His pronunciation sounded JUST like this:

Esssss-oh-FAG-us. Yes, accent on the third syllable. LOL

(This was back in the mid 70s.)
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:15 PM   #185
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Wrose!!! I was sooooo expecting to have a Star Trek analogy there!!! Didn't Capt Picard say it funny, too???


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Old 02-26-2007, 04:19 PM   #186
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Wrose!!! I was sooooo expecting to have a Star Trek analogy there!!! Didn't Capt Picard say it funny, too???


LOL!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:35 PM   #187
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With the sarcophagus (sp) being mentioned, I wanted to break out into Stargate quotes, lol.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:48 PM   #188
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Quote:
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Actually, in my group of friends I am the only atheist.Most of my close friends are Christian. ((shrugs)) Our differing views have never been an issue.

Being a Navy veteran and a military spouse I have checked out this group:

http://www.maaf.info/index.html
Differing views arent really a problem with me and my friends either. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I enjoy learning about other religions and Im a live and let live kinda gal. But sometimes, I just feel so alone with my view of the world and I'd love to have a friend or two who understood my views a bit more.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:13 PM   #189
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Default Favorite Atheist Bumper Stickers

Everyone has a bumper sticker; Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Honors Students, the children who beat up the Honor's Students, candidates for political office, etc.,.
Ever seen any cool atheist bumper stickers?
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:19 PM   #190
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I like, "I've read the Bible; that's why I'm an atheist!"
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:33 PM   #191
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Default Fave bumper stickers...

Atheism is myth-understood.

WWJD? - Who Wants Jelly Donuts?

Honk if you understand punctuated equilibrium!

Evolutionists do it with increasing complexity!
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:53 AM   #192
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Quote:
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I'm confused - I thought the Darwin fish meant you were a Christian but believed in evolution? Am I being thick here?
NO! The Darwin fish was the non-believer response to the Christian fish!!

Er, well, at least that's what I've always thought.
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:56 AM   #193
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Oh sorry; I didn't read the posts following! I just clicked on the Quote button.

I didn't know that's how it was in England.
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:07 AM   #194
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I also find it baffling that someone would feel so strongly about their lack of belief in God that they'd display a symbol saying so.
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:22 AM   #195
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I also find it baffling that someone would feel so strongly about their lack of belief in God that they'd display a symbol saying so.
DH has an "evolution" fish (it has feet and is holding a tool) and I have a "science fish". It is not so much about a lack of belief in God as it is a strong belief in those things.

If you want to see pics, we got them here. Plus, we both have a strange sense of humor. So to us, they are amusing - and that's as good a reason as any!!
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:23 AM   #196
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When I see the word "sarcophagus" I always read "oesophagus". Conjures up some pretty weird images, I can tell you.
LOL, I always think of Stargate. It's really very interesting how they've taken the entire pantheon of world religions and explained them as alien parasites posing as gods while using the bodies of human hosts. When they introduced a new archenemy last season, though, they chose incorporeal beings. The rhetoric used by these new aliens sounds a whole lot like crusading Christians from the Middle Ages.

Okay I totally didn't mean to launch into a whole dissertation on my favorite sci-fi show, but there's a marathon of it on right now so I guess I've got SG-1 on the brain at the moment.
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:38 AM   #197
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I have a close friend who's atheist, but we only manage to get together about once a month, as she has little ones and homeschools.

She homeschools because the public schools are "too Christian" for her.

As for her children, what does she teach them? Well, when they did world cultures, they did in-depth studies on ALL the world religions. They did Egypt and their culture and beliefs, Greek, India, China, they did Buddha and Hindus and various other ones I can't think of now. THEN they did Europe and Christianity - treating it just like any other world culture/religion.

She - and her kids - are very bright. When a bird died in their yard, her DD made a really cool sarcophagus out of a shoe box.

wow I have never heard public school was TOO christian for someone... LoL
here there is an argument trying to get rid of the moment of silence and Pledge of allegiance because of the " seperation of church and state " I also had a friend who was jehovah's witness in school and he couldnt play the star spangled banner before a football game in marching band because of his religious beliefs ( that I understood his point of view though when it was explained)
I personally think they should keep all of it the way it is ( including In God we trust - on our money) Please dont flame me for this cause I posted on this link....
I say this not because of my religious beliefs, but because our country was built on Christianity and puritanism... that is what the founders believed and that is what it is.. Yes the pledge was written later and the Star spangled banner was written later but the constitution was written then and there, its part of our history....... Its how our country got through everything
As for the moment of silence at school IMO its a way to collect yourself... have a moment of peace before the day officially starts, and you can pray if you want to but its not required.

as for the general post.. I think that its everyones choice ( freedom of religion and worship as you choose) just dont hurt anyone in the process.
I am what I am and I am always open to listening to other people....
yes I think the bible was written by man, Yes I think there are inconsistencies in some places ( but that is me) yes I believe Jesus lived.... do I believe everything about him... I just dont know....

But in the end I feel that people who believe have something to hold on to, something to get them through the worst expiriences of their lives, something to ask to help them through it, and thats all that matters... no matter what the belief is - Christianity, Muslim, Paganism, Buddhism, Wicca, or just a wish of things to get better... Ya know....
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:45 AM   #198
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I say this not because of my religious beliefs, but because our country was built on Christianity and puritanism... that is what the founders believed and that is what it is..
Some people would argue that this country was founded on the ideal of religious freedom. The people that came over from Europe came to ESCAPE religious persecution.

At best, Thomas Jefferson was a deist. He created a Bible for himself in which he removed everything but the sayings of Jesus. He considered his greatest accomplishment the Statute for Religious Freedom. He was an admirer of Islam.

The concept of being part of Christendom does not refer to Christianity. The concept of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" refers to people's right choose.

Just some thoughts...
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:47 AM   #199
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say this not because of my religious beliefs, but because our country was built on Christianity and puritanism... that is what the founders believed and that is what it is..
Ah Christians love to believe this...*sigh*
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:50 AM   #200
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I have a fish with the word "vampire" on the inside, and underneath, a few fangs on each side. But it isn't on my car; it's on my fridge.
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