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Old 02-26-2007, 03:44 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by scrapmo
I would have to say that logic made me an agnostic. Back in 6th grade I started asking questions like:

Why is every religion so sure they are the right one?
Why would god put people on a tiny island in the south pacific and damn them to hell because they were never exposed to JC so that they could accept him as their saviour?
If God is all knowing and all powerful, why would S/He care if I eat meat on Friday?
If you lose something in the translation, then how can any of these religious books, written in dead languages, and translated and edited over and over, be accurate?

So religion just doesn't make sense. I decided I just needed to be a good person not follow silly rules written by random people that conflict with other silly rules written by other random people.
This is SO perfect! I have always questioned religion...as far back as I can remember. I would sit in church with my Mom when I was like 5 and think to myself...'well, that makes NO sense!' I think I was born an atheist.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:47 AM   #122
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Hahahahaha. I have a feeling I'll be changing it back. Hugh is just soooo much more appealing that the piggy.
Everytime I see your avatar, I just think of him in Stuart Little! My DD watches that movie at least 3 times a week!
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:55 AM   #123
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I'm going to have to get this book if for no other reason than to enhance my vocabluary.

"arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidical, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Rainsong
Ack! Them's some big words!
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:08 AM   #124
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Atheist here...I don't believe in God/any higher spiritual at all even though I'm from a Baptist family and went to Catholic schools all my life.

I've called myself an atheist for several years now.

For me, it's all about logic and proof. "Faith" isn't enough for me.

Glad to see this thread!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:14 AM   #125
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Why is it, in this day and age, that many atheists are afraid to be public about it?

Even out here in the liberal Bay Area, where most people don't talk much about religion, and everyone does their own thing... one of my best friends is atheist and I didn't know it for a year. It never came up and she never mentioned it.

I did "out" myself to my sister in an email yesterday, that I "thought" I was agnostic. My family is Catholic, but she is the most unreligious. I wasn't sure how she'd take it. Her response surprised me, "I think I'm like you."

So now at least we can talk about it!
Where I live, it is liberal - for example, we have a good community (full of support groups, etc.) for gays, liberals, bi-sexuals, and transgendered people. I don't think anyone would be afraid to be public about being atheist here. I thought that's how things were everywhere (didn't get around much) - until I visited the town that my sister moved to. !!! Night and day!!! If you drove around, there was a church every TWO MINUTES. We did not see a single gay-rainbow sticker anywhere, which really freaked my brother out (he's not gay, but an atheist). Our hotel's cafeteria's advertising signs suggested to the patrons that they could enjoy brunch there AFTER CHURCH. WTH?? I had never encountered anything like that before. I would be more inclined to hide my non-believer status in a place like that.

To be fair, I didn't hang around long enough to get to know any of the other locals very well - who knows? Maybe they all would've been very tolerant and not condemning at all. I might have been blinded by my own stereotypes of religious people.
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:50 AM   #126
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Why is it, in this day and age, that many atheists are afraid to be public about it?
Well I think the fiasco that I missed here yesterday is a good indication as to why. I missed all the action but still felt the stress of being stalked. Personally I think those members should have been banned for their actions because what they did was a malicious attempt to drag good people's names through the mud. I think those actions speak for themselves. On the upside, I hope I get some much needed blog traffic.

But despite the negative stunt, I will stand by my opinions and remain outspoken regarding my atheism because I feel it's important to do so. I have an extremely low opinion of religion...particularly Christianity...because I think it's anti humanist and harmful. I want to be as public and outspoken as I can as a means to reach other people who are afraid to speak up and talk about their lack of belief or who need like minded people to talk to because no one around them understands what they are going through.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:18 AM   #127
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Hmmm... baby-killer. For some reason, that made me think of Alice's Restaurant.

You know, they play that out here every Thanksgiving Day at noon on our local Classic Rock station. And we always listen.

KFOG? I have all of their Christmas benefit cd's. - Well at least the last 12 or so.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:26 AM   #128
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I often wonder how, as a woman, it is possible to NOT question religion. Ummm, hello!! Christianity, and the Church, have oppressed women since their inception!

DH's family are devout Southern Baptists, and women cannot, to this day, serve in official capacity in his grandparents' church. Well, the choir director is a woman - but she is the pastor's wife. But no deacons, no important committees - nothing. And decisions they can make they run past the men first. ***?????

And it is my understanding that Catholics still will not ordain women. Good idea - those men they are ordaining are a much safer choice.

I just cannot understand why it is just accepted that women are inferior or bad or unholy and/or cannot be trusted in some way - just because some crabby old men who had a meeting said so. It grates on my every last nerve that people, women especially, follow a religion that is so gender biased.

Ok, sorry for the rant.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:47 AM   #129
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I often wonder how, as a woman, it is possible to NOT question religion. Ummm, hello!! Christianity, and the Church, have oppressed women since their inception!
This is an excellent point. It's no accident that religion is so effective in it's hold on people, especially women. As a method of control it has proven to be quite tenacious.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:58 AM   #130
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I often wonder how, as a woman, it is possible to NOT question religion. Ummm, hello!! Christianity, and the Church, have oppressed women since their inception!

DH's family are devout Southern Baptists, and women cannot, to this day, serve in official capacity in his grandparents' church. Well, the choir director is a woman - but she is the pastor's wife. But no deacons, no important committees - nothing. And decisions they can make they run past the men first. ***?????

And it is my understanding that Catholics still will not ordain women. Good idea - those men they are ordaining are a much safer choice.

I just cannot understand why it is just accepted that women are inferior or bad or unholy and/or cannot be trusted in some way - just because some crabby old men who had a meeting said so. It grates on my every last nerve that people, women especially, follow a religion that is so gender biased.

Ok, sorry for the rant.
This is exactly the reason why I have started to really question my beliefs the last couple years. That, and also the behavior of some "Christian" ladies on this site really pushed me over the edge. If acting how they act and calling themselves Christians in the process, I want no part of that religion.

Honestly, I don't think I'll ever be an atheist. I believe in God, but I don't believe the Bible is literally God's word (you should have seen my DH's face yesterday when I told him that). I believe Jesus lived, but I'm not sure I believe he's the son of God.

I just don't know what I believe! Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence, as some of you that have already posted in this thread know, b/c we've discussed it privately.

My FIL just died very suddenly and unexpectedly and my MIL (who is very devout) belives it's God's punishment for going to the casino. Yeah, the fact that he had an un-diagnosed aneurysm in his aorta had nothing to do with it. See, that type of attitude I don't understand...I don't believe God punishes people for what He deems "bad" things.

Or, like my mother will say she's been praying for my DH and that's why he didn't run out of gas on the way to his Mother's house...I laughed at her and said "Yeah, Mom, it had nothing to do with the fact that he had enough gas in his gas tank."

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical.

Enough from me.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:15 AM   #131
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My FIL just died very suddenly and unexpectedly and my MIL (who is very devout) belives it's God's punishment for going to the casino. Yeah, the fact that he had an un-diagnosed aneurysm in his aorta had nothing to do with it. See, that type of attitude I don't understand...I don't believe God punishes people for what He deems "bad" things.

Or, like my mother will say she's been praying for my DH and that's why he didn't run out of gas on the way to his Mother's house...I laughed at her and said "Yeah, Mom, it had nothing to do with the fact that he had enough gas in his gas tank."
This is one of my (many) struggles - how come God saw fit to stop your mother's DH from running out of petrol, but decided to punish your FIL with a sudden and tragic death? That's the sort of thing that makes me think that even if there IS a God (which I don't believe, as you know), I don't want to be involved - the punishments and the effects of prayer are too random for me.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:20 AM   #132
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This is one of my (many) struggles - how come God saw fit to stop your mother's DH from running out of petrol, but decided to punish your FIL with a sudden and tragic death? That's the sort of thing that makes me think that even if there IS a God (which I don't believe, as you know), I don't want to be involved - the punishments and the effects of prayer are too random for me.
Just wanted to clarify it was *my* DH that almost ran out of gas (or petrol, as you so quaintly put it! ).
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:34 AM   #133
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Just wanted to clarify it was *my* DH that almost ran out of gas (or petrol, as you so quaintly put it! ).

Oops - sorry! I'm just a confused Brit.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:34 AM   #134
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...That, and also the behavior of some "Christian" ladies on this site really pushed me over the edge. If acting how they act and calling themselves Christians in the process, I want no part of that religion.
....
Or, like my mother will say she's been praying for my DH and that's why he didn't run out of gas on the way to his Mother's house...
That stuff kills me. DH's family will pray about losing their keys. And DH will mutter to me - "If there really was a God, don't you think he has more to do than find your **** keys?" Or assert that the sun is shining on the day of a family picnic because they prayed for it. Again, ***?? I just don't get it!

My MIL is, quite literally, insane. SERIOUS anger management issues - she can say something hateful and a second later deny she said. And the messed up thing is she really believes she didn't say it - when DH will hear it (cuz he's on the receiving end) and so will I (cuz she's screaming so loud on the phone I can hear her too). It is a pathological issue she will never acknowledge. But I think it is being hypocritical, and to behave the way I have seen her behave while out of the other side of her mouth telling us what a good Christian she is, and how she wants to save our souls, and we should be taking DD to church (what, exactly, is she gonna learn at 17 months??). She is certain that WE are the bad people.

DH and I lived together for 4 1/2 years before we got married. Once we got engaged, our wedding was 1 year later (I wanted an October wedding, and he proposed in Sept - too soon for me to plan a humungous wedding like ours). His family could not understand why we waited so long. MIL constantly discussed how we were living in sin, and embarrassing her whole family, etc etc. I could go on, but I'll just get mad. Sorry for ranting, again!

My basic point was to agree - there is a reason you lost your keys - you forgot where you put them. There is a reason my stepfather died a long, drawn out death from adenocarcinoma - he had a vicious cancer that they tried hard to eradicate, but could not. He, for real, never did a wrong thing in his life. He was a great man. So I'm fairly certain he wasn't being punished for anything. If "bad" people were punished by God for wrongdoing(s) I don't think we'd have so many visious killers and rapists in prison. God would've struck them down already.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:53 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by virginia
Well I think the fiasco that I missed here yesterday is a good indication as to why. I missed all the action but still felt the stress of being stalked. Personally I think those members should have been banned for their actions because what they did was a malicious attempt to drag good people's names through the mud. I think those actions speak for themselves. On the upside, I hope I get some much needed blog traffic.

But despite the negative stunt, I will stand by my opinions and remain outspoken regarding my atheism because I feel it's important to do so. I have an extremely low opinion of religion...particularly Christianity...because I think it's anti humanist and harmful. I want to be as public and outspoken as I can as a means to reach other people who are afraid to speak up and talk about their lack of belief or who need like minded people to talk to because no one around them understands what they are going through.
?? WHAT HAPPENED? I haven't been able to tear myself away from the computer because I've been trying to piece together what happened!! I read a little of Pearls before Swine (CHRIS, I hope you'll get well and not die!) and um. What I got was someone started another thread? And did some stalking with links? And then the thread got deleted?

You have a blog? An atheist one? I'll read it and give you some blog traffic!
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:09 AM   #136
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?? WHAT HAPPENED? I haven't been able to tear myself away from the computer because I've been trying to piece together what happened!! I read a little of Pearls before Swine (CHRIS, I hope you'll get well and not die!) and um. What I got was someone started another thread? And did some stalking with links? And then the thread got deleted?

You have a blog? An atheist one? I'll read it and give you some blog traffic!
I think you've got the basic gist of what happened yesterday, but if you care to discuss details I'll be happy to do so in PM. I wasn't even around to defend myself(not that I need to) because I was busy taking care of a very sick child.

As far as my blog goes, it's not an atheist blog at all. I have my photography displayed there, my hike write ups, and various other personal things.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:10 AM   #137
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?? WHAT HAPPENED? I haven't been able to tear myself away from the computer because I've been trying to piece together what happened!! I read a little of Pearls before Swine (CHRIS, I hope you'll get well and not die!) and um. What I got was someone started another thread? And did some stalking with links? And then the thread got deleted?
Wow, really? I missed it as well, but from the sound of things maybe I should be glad I did.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:12 AM   #138
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I dont like to label myself Athiest or Agnostic because I dont think either of them describes me. I dont believe in all or most of the teachings of organized religions, however from an intellectual standpoint, they do interest me.
I was brought up with a spotty Chistian education...I always looked at the teachings of the bible as parables and guidelines for a good life not as a book to take and live litterally. As someone said earlier, it just doesnt hold up to logic that it is completely true and unchanged. Religion/s have evolved and so have the books from which the religions are taught. It is comforting that 'someone cares and watches over us' but just very unrealistic. Sometimes I slip into that comfort for a bit but I always seem to slide back out. The ugliness is usually what starts the slide for me. The things done and said in the name of religion/s throughout time, repulse me!!
On the flip side though, learning about the beliefs of others does interest me very much...I live in Utah, the land of the Mormons and I have greatly enjoyed learning of their beliefs...I dont believe them, but I find them interesting. I find non-Christian religions interesting too and would like to study them further. In my heart I dont think I'll find one the 'fits me' or 'speaks the truth to me' but I do enjoy the education and learning of all the differences and big similarities they all seem to have. I also enjoy trying to decipher the paradox of why they believe as they do...do they not see there is no logic? WHat makes it true to them? upbringing? filling a void? fear? societal pressures? I find it facinating actually.
SO I cannot label myself as a member of any particular religion or non-religion and I cannot or will not judge what other's have faith in. I do ask questions but I try to never judge. And I expect the same from the people in my life, no matter their beliefs.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:12 AM   #139
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Okay, I shall stop lurking here and introduce myself. I'm December Baby and I'm an agnostic theist - I believe that there is a higher power (God if you want to call it that), but I can't prove that it exists, nor am I keen on religion. Lapsed Catholic (Catholic school and everything) and apparently born without that *religion* gene. I'm going to be marrying a Jewish atheist, so let's see how our kids turn out

I personally don't really care what people believe as long as they don't force their beliefs on me.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:17 AM   #140
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So with all that said I'd like to share a very funny video I found on YOUtube regarding the recent push of Christianity on American politics. WARNING THOUGH: It does contain some words for the male anatomy that some may find offensive!! Please dont listen to it with children present or if you have tender sensabilities!! (There are however no offensive images.) Video link here
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:24 AM   #141
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Check out Ethicalatheist.com! I just found it right now. I really should google more things. It is so helpful (Google I mean).
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:26 AM   #142
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KFOG? I have all of their Christmas benefit cd's. - Well at least the last 12 or so.
Actually KFOX, or more technically, KUFX. Out of San Jose.

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Old 02-26-2007, 11:40 AM   #143
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I just had someone point out to me how ironic it is that the Christians are so worried about atheists undermining their faith, when said Christians are the exact reason why I have doubts about faith.

Ironic, no?
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:52 AM   #144
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Actually KFOX, or more technically, KUFX. Out of San Jose.

You can see why they chose KFOX instead of ... er, KFUX.

LOL
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:56 AM   #145
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You can see why they chose KFOX instead of ... er, KFUX.

LOL

Naughty naughty!!! ROFLMAO - cuz that would be too funny!!!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:37 PM   #146
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Oh, and for those that are lurking that think I'm bashing, you're being much too sensitive. If I wanted to bash anyone, you'd certainly know it.

I am merely pointing out that the behavior of some Christians is what drives people away, not atheists asking questions.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:50 PM   #147
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Oh - while I'm thinking about it ... One of my biggest struggles with Christianity is the need to stuff people (after they've been turned into a chemical nightmare) into boxes and in turn stuff those boxes into plots of earth better suited for other things.
I believe we came from the earth and we need to return to the earth to replace what we "borrowed" for our lifetime. No offense to anyone - but this is my belief.
The word in my house is cremation!
So why to I bring this up! Because my mom - who is NOT Catholic and NOT raised Catholic told me that I would noe be by redeemed by God at the end of the world becuae I had no body ---- Apparently she read some where that the Pope said so!

ARGH!!!!!!!
Go figure ....
I'm a Christian (though not Catholic) and I've never heard that Christians were to be buried instead of cremation. Maybe this is a Catholic thing.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:00 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by AngFab
I just want to pipe in with a reminder that this thread is to be a place for athiests and agnostics to gather and share their own thoughts and experiences and just in general "hang out" w/out debating the merits of any faith based religions.

While it may seem tempting to share faith based experiences here, I think it best if they are kept out of this thread. I know the other religious threads would not want to be invaded by non-believers chiming in with their experiences, so we all need to extend the same courtesy here in this thread.

Thanks everybody.
Really? Have you checked out the Biblical Questions thread? Perhaps you should remind some of the non-believers that this goes both ways.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:01 PM   #149
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Originally Posted by sassyat30
Honestly, I don't think I'll ever be an atheist. I believe in God, but I don't believe the Bible is literally God's word (you should have seen my DH's face yesterday when I told him that). I believe Jesus lived, but I'm not sure I believe he's the son of God.

I just don't know what I believe! Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence, as some of you that have already posted in this thread know, b/c we've discussed it privately.

My FIL just died very suddenly and unexpectedly and my MIL (who is very devout) belives it's God's punishment for going to the casino. Yeah, the fact that he had an un-diagnosed aneurysm in his aorta had nothing to do with it. See, that type of attitude I don't understand...I don't believe God punishes people for what He deems "bad" things.

Or, like my mother will say she's been praying for my DH and that's why he didn't run out of gas on the way to his Mother's house...I laughed at her and said "Yeah, Mom, it had nothing to do with the fact that he had enough gas in his gas tank."

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical.

Enough from me.
For a lot of years, I just didn't think much about it. I didn't go to church, didn't miss it or feel a need to, but I just didn't think about it much.

I used to say I simply had no use for organized religion.

But things like what you've talked about, and my own logic, have made me think about it more.

I had a Jesuit University education, so I know that philosophers and theologians have been arguing for ages about what is needed to please God. Good works? Or "being saved"? Mother Teresa - is she in heaven, if one believes in it? She never "accepted Jesus as her savior" as American Christians seem to believe is necessary. She was Catholic, Catholics don't do that. Gandhi? Is he not in heaven because he wasn't Christian?

Anyway, I totally understand your being on the fence, Sassy. And I know you think for yourself, nobody will push you one way or the other. So just keep thinking and reading.

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Old 02-26-2007, 01:06 PM   #150
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Really? Have you checked out the Biblical Questions thread? Perhaps you should remind some of the non-believers that this goes both ways.
If you are talking about the very recent thread about Questions Regarding Biblical Stuff, the OP specifically said, "I wanted to start a new thread because I have a lot of questions about the Bible that I want to debate over, or just ask about."

Questions regarding Biblical stuff

(Perhaps it should have been moved to CE?)

HOWEVER, please note that there is a thread in Family Matters, "Bible, something totally cool..."

BIBLE: something totally cool ... or .... what does that mean?

That thread was started in May of 2006, and it has been reported that they have had ONE "incursion" (debater) in ALL THIS TIME, and a mod stepped in. And the intruder was a MORMON. Not an Atheist. Not an Agnostic.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:12 PM   #151
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aha! I just found this - after wondering where it would be cos I noticed a lot of Bible htreads - I was going to ask but I'm glad I didn't now

anyhoo- I will stop rambling and start reading- probabaly from the beginning
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:33 PM   #152
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Default Christian Bashing

As most of you know, despite the fact that atheists and agnostics have left other Biblically based/Christian Chit-Chat threads alone, we are being watched. Not only that... but, there are certain people who are just waiting to pounce on any post even toeing the line of the TOS. So, please... keep discussions focused on a topic or issue, not on any person.

However, I have to say that whole point of having an atheist thread was to celebrate what it means to be an atheist. The whole point of an agnostic thread is to "learn" and discover, to gather knowledge (in regards to reliion). An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An agnostic is someone who is examining all of the information BOTH FOR AND AGAINST religion(s) and/or deities. So, for those lurking and expecting to see nothing but pro-Christian sentiments, you are clearly going to see something that offends you. If you have a problem with a position you see, then start a new thread and bring up your issue. Atheists have run-ins with individual Christians every day. Atheists run into theists every day. It should surprise no one that we will be discussing how these run-ins effect our lives.

The Bible thread talks about how wonderful the Bible is and how true it is. We are going to be discussing the opposite.
The Bible thread, and several other threads, presume that Christianity is the best approach to life.
We will be posing the opposite assertion.
The Bible thread posters congratulate each other on life and accomplishments, church callings, prayers, and other milestones.
We will be doing the same here.
That said, there are a number of incidents, in the Biblical threads, that paint non-believers in a less than flattering light. There's a presumption that those who don't believe are missing out or misguided. It should surprise no theist that we will be discussing the opposing statement: that theists are misguided. Theists make the presumption that atheists/agnostics are "lost". We are going to address this, probably over-and-over again, amongst atheists/agnosics. Just as you celebrate your faith as theists: we will be celebrating our freedom as atheists/agnostics.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:37 PM   #153
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Forgot to say:
This thread will be challenging the Bible's authority and divinity.
This thread will be presuming that religion is not a sacred cow.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:39 PM   #154
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WOO HOO!!!! I'm so glad I'm not a Christian!!!! *that's me celebrating*
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:40 PM   #155
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ok, having now caught up on everything I will jump in as is my usual manner

I am an out and out Ahteist- and proud of it and will let anybody and everybody know- I have a Darwin fish above my desk at work and a picture from a newspaper that shows a church sign saying 'dont let worries kill you let the church help' with no punctuation- so you get it?

anyway- i was brought up in a very eccentric and liberal household- as far as intellectual matters go anyway- my family was military and the only reason we went to sunday school was for mum to have a rest- the pamphlets we brought home were immediately thrown in the bin Mum and dad always told us we could make up our own minds and then let us have the run of every book in the house and taught us to read before we got near a nursery school- and I have been reading ever since.

I had a few run-ins with christianity- a very 'christian' teacher who thought it was fun to teach us about persecution by SHOWING us- then I met a group of 'orn agains' that came around to our school - and were allowed to 'witness' to us- they almost had me- then I wne ton a course and was harangued by a small group of Americans who turned out to be 'charismatics' and told me i was directly from the devil because I asked them about the gospels of Thomas and Enoch lol I was once even accused of lying when i said I wasn't a christian - the person said 'but you're Biritsh you must be!' lol

I dabbled in Pagansim for a while after meeting a very nice pagan and became part of a coven for a couple of years- this as i see it now was a move away from the patriarchism of most reigions - I always fail to understand how any woman can become a nun much less be a part of any religion that treats her so shabbily- any religion not just chrisitanity.

Anyway- I have gradually become firmer and firmer in my atheism through studying just about every religion you could think of, reading all their texts and arguing with people. I adore arguing with priests and vicars because generally they haven't read their own bible - I refuse to 'let' people pray for me, i refuse to let it be assumed I am anything but an atheist- and have complained to various governement departments about not putting it on their forms- it is now lol. I am a history and philosophy buff and will argue with anybody about anything. As a rational, scientific person I don't hold with anything at all to do with anything that is outside science-there are things we don't now yet and there are things we haven't discovered yet- but we will.

My hero is Richard Dawkins and has anybody else seen atheistnation.com? there are some great videos on there - especially the johnathan Miller ones
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:41 PM   #156
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WOO HOO!!!! I'm so glad I'm not a Christian!!!! *that's me celebrating*
Well, we know which band to call for the celebration...
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:42 PM   #157
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My hero is Richard Dawkins and has anybody else seen atheistnation.com? there are some great videos on there - especially the johnathan Miller ones
Mmmmmmmmmm...Dawkins.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:45 PM   #158
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I am an out and out Ahteist- and proud of it and will let anybody and everybody know- I have a Darwin fish above my desk
I'm confused - I thought the Darwin fish meant you were a Christian but believed in evolution? Am I being thick here?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:48 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by sassyat30
This is exactly the reason why I have started to really question my beliefs the last couple years. That, and also the behavior of some "Christian" ladies on this site really pushed me over the edge. If acting how they act and calling themselves Christians in the process, I want no part of that religion.

Honestly, I don't think I'll ever be an atheist. I believe in God, but I don't believe the Bible is literally God's word (you should have seen my DH's face yesterday when I told him that). I believe Jesus lived, but I'm not sure I believe he's the son of God.

I just don't know what I believe! Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence, as some of you that have already posted in this thread know, b/c we've discussed it privately.

My FIL just died very suddenly and unexpectedly and my MIL (who is very devout) belives it's God's punishment for going to the casino. Yeah, the fact that he had an un-diagnosed aneurysm in his aorta had nothing to do with it. See, that type of attitude I don't understand...I don't believe God punishes people for what He deems "bad" things.

Or, like my mother will say she's been praying for my DH and that's why he didn't run out of gas on the way to his Mother's house...I laughed at her and said "Yeah, Mom, it had nothing to do with the fact that he had enough gas in his gas tank."

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical.

Enough from me.
Thats how my grandma is and I laugh, like having a doctor performing a diificuly surgery and the patient makes it through, then people say it was god that did that. Well if it wasnt for the doctor were would the patient be?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:50 PM   #160
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The first time I realized there was no god I was nine. I had been going through confirmation classes in the Episcopal church and I realized through examination of my beliefs that none of what I thought or was being taught made any sense. I started asking bunches of questions and didn't get any satisfactory answers. The answers I did get just spawned more questions.

By the time I was in my 20's, I started to thoroughly examine religion and asked more questions with an adult perspective. Knowing what I know now, I will always be an atheist.
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