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Old 03-02-2007, 07:30 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsong
Yes, I just got off the phone with her.

Rainsong
Is she mad, or upset? And can the mods do anyhting about it?
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:30 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Rainsong
Yes, I just got off the phone with her.

Rainsong
I would love to call her, but I can't stop coughing long enough to talk for more than two or three words at a time.

Damn bronchitis.
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:31 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by sassyat30
I would love to call her, but I can't stop coughing long enough to talk for more than two or three words at a time.

Damn bronchitis.
Feel better soon!
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:34 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagccva
Feel better soon!
Thanks, Taylor.
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:35 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagccva
Is she mad, or upset? And can the mods do anyhting about it?
More like flabbergasted. Appalled at the left-wing group attack. Administration can't do anything at the moment.

Enjoying her kids. Cuddling with the baby.

Sounded good

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Old 03-02-2007, 07:47 PM   #406
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Threats were made via forwarded pms to a fellow member in collusion with other members.

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Again??

Or this is from before? You're not saying it has happened AGAIN?
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:47 PM   #407
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Again??

Or this is from before? You're not saying it has happened AGAIN?
Yes, again.

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Old 03-02-2007, 07:53 PM   #408
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Yes, again.

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How incredibly sad.

I hope the people responsible are ashamed of their very un-Christianlike actions.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:12 PM   #409
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I am a 100 % CHRISTIAN. And thought after my Mom died last Feb. that you all understood and/orwould be a supportive community. I no longer think that. I am alone(here for sure).... Thank you for calling me a troll in a thread. and also, other bad very bad names...I wish you all luck in your lives...I hope one day your realize how lucky you are not to get a call that your husband has to get all his limbs cut off, or that you need serious surgery. You are all so, extremely, out of the loop, Karen
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:14 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagccva
Uuuggghhhh...i may have mentioned how devoutly religious DH's mother's entire family (with the exception of DH) is. They refuse to accept that we are not, nor are we planning to raise our daughter that way. They are constantly buying her religious gifts, talking to her about their particular brand of religion, and hounding us to take her to church (and make sure we are raising her in a godly, christian home - whole other post!). It isn't so bad now, because since DD is only 17 months old we can intercept the gifts, and she doesn't notice (had to donate no fewer than 5 books about the "real" Christmas story, a pop-up about the "real" Noah's Ark, children's treasury of Christian Bible Stories, and a t-shirt that said "I belong to Jesus Christ" after Christmas this year) that they go missing. And we just ignore the constant harrassment about church. This past Christmas we had to endure a 10 minute prayer before dinner that included some discussion on the evils of people trying to erase Christ from Christmas, shopping at stores that say Happy Holidays, how the Rapture was coming, and this may be our last year together and we all need to be sure we get right with God.....I thought I was gonna throw up. And DH almost left.

The ignoring is DH's plan forever. He doesn't want to have a knock-down drag-out thing with his family over this (and has yet to tell them he is an atheist). I don't blame him - they WILL flip out. But I think something needs to be done, and done soon. As she gets older, and we encourage her to explore and discover on her own, she will notice their personal issues with the whole scenario. And she will notice how mad it makes us. I also DO NOT under any circumstances want them teaching her about religion. Because they cannot do it in an objective way.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we should proceed?
Ugh.

I think the best thing that you can do is to get together with your DH and develop a gameplan.

You don't really need to get into a full conversation with the in-laws about what you or your DH believe. It's not really the point. The point is that you don't want them teaching your child about religion. So, a simple "we want to be the ones to teach DD about religion" will do. It's a simple message, but you'll have to be prepared for it not to be received well. (Yeah, like I needed to tell you that! ) That's where the gameplan comes in. Once they are aware of your wishes, how will you respond if they ignore them? If you and your DH are in agreement in advance, you can leave/call them on it/refuse the gift/discuss the situation with them/ignore it/whatever you have decided to do in response. The danger with telling them that you don't want them teaching your child about their beliefs is that they may take it "underground." In some ways, it might be easier to let them keep up their speeches in front of you so that you know what is being said when you talk to DD about it later. If they talk to her and tell her that the conversation is a secret, then you now longer have the opportunity to use the situation as a teaching moment.

Again, ugh. Good luck with the overbearing in-laws.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:15 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Illinois Marge
How incredibly sad.

I hope the people responsible are ashamed of their very un-Christianlike actions.
You and me too...
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:20 PM   #412
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I will never understand how people can be so offended by different views that they will resort to stalking and threatening behaviour. I'm so sorry Chris is going through this again and I'm appalled that people would be so mean. Shame, shame, shame.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:34 PM   #413
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I sent an e-mail to the member who has been harassed earlier this evening. The situation is disgusting and anyone willing to gang up and bully a person over the internet has a really mucked up sense of right and wrong.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:47 PM   #414
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I sent an e-mail to the member who has been harassed earlier this evening. The situation is disgusting and anyone willing to gang up and bully a person over the internet has a really mucked up sense of right and wrong.
I totally agree. I didn't know this was happening again. I call it cowardly. If one can't say something to a thread without getting personal and worse, it's time for a nice long break from the boards. I am sorry she has to get more of these harrassing PM's. I am glad you talked to her on the phone RS. I wish the mods could take care of it once and for all.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:47 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsong
Yes, I just got off the phone with her.

Rainsong
Is she OK?
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:50 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha
Is she OK?
Yes, but disgusted.

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Old 03-02-2007, 08:53 PM   #417
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I usually just pop into CE for leg humps and Bud Lights, but this really gets my goat. Why the F can't people just back off? Let the Christians, atheists, LDS, etc....have their threads and the rest just leave them alone. For "whatever" sake, this is just friggin wrong. Everything was going just fine until a friggin troll has to come in and spoil a pleasant thread. GEESH!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:02 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Shanon
I usually just pop into CE for leg humps and Bud Lights, but this really gets my goat. Why the F can't people just back off? Let the Christians, atheists, LDS, etc....have their threads and the rest just leave them alone. For "whatever" sake, this is just friggin wrong. Everything was going just fine until a friggin troll has to come in and spoil a pleasant thread. GEESH!!!!!!!!!!
No kidding. If one is sooo into what they believe, why even read threads that you can't tolerate. It makes me sick that a good member has to deal with this crap.
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:17 PM   #419
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I have been clued in on what's going on around here, and I find it absolutely disgusting. Chris is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and she doesn't deserve to be treated this way. There are some women here who are behaving like a rabid pack of dogs and I'm shocked.

You know, the whole time I've been posting at SCS not ONCE have I ever received a warning on my behavior here. But the way things are going now, I wouldn't be surprised if I get banned just because I'm an atheist, outspoken about it, and because I'm participating in this thread and displaying my sheer disappointment in the way things are being handled.

Ah well, it's to be expected I suppose. That good 'ol Christian love that we are all so familiar with has reared it's ugly head once again. Typical, just typical.
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:21 PM   #420
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I honestly understand the title of this thread, but I don't think THAT was necessary. My post did not call out any religion. My post called out the TROLL. Sorry V.....I just felt the need to say that. I am not any "religion".
Quote:
Originally Posted by virginia
I have been clued in on what's going on around here, and I find it absolutely disgusting. Chris is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and she doesn't deserve to be treated this way. There are some women here who are behaving like a rabid pack of dogs and I'm shocked.

You know, the whole time I've been posting at SCS not ONCE have I ever received a warning on my behavior here. But the way things are going now, I wouldn't be surprised if I get banned just because I'm an atheist, outspoken about it, and because I'm participating in this thread and displaying my sheer disappointment in the way things are being handled.

Ah well, it's to be expected I suppose. That good 'ol Christian love that we are all so familiar with has reared it's ugly head once again. Typical, just typical.
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:22 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by virginia

Ah well, it's to be expected I suppose. That good 'ol Christian love that we are all so familiar with has reared it's ugly head once again. Typical, just typical.
I wouldn't call what has been happening lately "Christian."

I'd call it "terrorism.

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Old 03-02-2007, 09:55 PM   #422
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I'm sorry Shanon. I'm just so ticked off right now you have no idea.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:07 PM   #423
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I understand Sweetie. I hope that this whole thing gets resolved soon. HUGE hugs!
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I'm sorry Shanon. I'm just so ticked off right now you have no idea.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:17 PM   #424
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Chris does not deserve this. We may need to redo her quilt. It's a sad day.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:26 PM   #425
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Thanks Shanon, hugs back. My remarks about "Christian Love" were totally uncalled for. I shouldn't take out my frustrations that way. Thanks for understanding.
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Old 03-03-2007, 03:59 AM   #426
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Yikes. I came back this morning to post quote and I am very sad and upset to hear what's happened.

My thoughts are with everyone here.

I don't know why it upsets anyone that those with questions want a place to share and enjoy one another's perspective and support.

I know that when I first joined SCS, I found the fertility challenged stampers thread. DH and I had been going through a lot finding out that it's extremely unlikely we'll ever have a child, and I have to admit that seeing a thread for folks who were dealing with the impossiblity and accepting and grieving was something different from those still trying and hoping to conceive. Both groups were looking for and very much needing companionship and support in the struggle but it was a great blessing to find folks who could understand that the two struggles have a very essential difference.

When I first saw this thread, I had the same sense of comfort at finding a place where it is safe to share perspectives and open questions.

The thought that someone would find the warmth, support and humor here something so terrible that they'd need to threaten the person who started the thread appalls me. I hope no one will take this as 'typical Christian' behavior. It's NOT and on behalf of my fellow believers, I offer an apology and contrition from the bottom of my heart.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:07 AM   #427
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Out of very deep respect and appreciation for this thread, I'm going ahead and posting the quote, from Daniel Mendelsohn, The Lost: A Search for Six of Six Million. He quotes Jose Saramago, from The History of the Siege of Lisbon:
But the disadvantage with sources, however truthful they try to be, is their lack of precision in matters of detail and their impassioned account of events... the proliferation of secondary and tertiary sources, some copied, others carelessly transmitted, some repeated from hearsay, others who changed details on good or bad faith, some freely interpreted, others rectified, some propagated with total indifference, others proclaimed as the one, eternal and irreplaceable truth, the last of these the most suspect of all.
This quote comes from an author who spent much of his book meditating not only on the Old Testament, but on Talmudic commentary on the scriptures. I do think it's very true of all of our human wrestling with events, including the human beings who documented the scriptures. The fact that most societies of believers no longer practice slavery or keep kosher does not detract from the challenges of the Bible, but I think does point to the changes in the human condition and human society that make ongoing commentary and wrestling with the issues such a vital challenge for those who do believe.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:43 AM   #428
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Hi guys... just dropping by from UK! I've just read this whole thread from beginning to end and found it truly fascinating. I don't understand what has happened over the last day (doesn't sound pleasant) but I really hope it doesn't result in this thread being closed.

As others from Uk have said, I don't feel any tension between believers/non-believers in Uk as you are experiencing in the States... probably because it's never really discussed unless you go to church!

Personally, I think I fall into the Agnostic group. I was brought up in a Christian/Methodist family but none of us were real followers. I remember going to church on Sundays and attending Sunday School but that all fell by the wayside by the time I reached my teens. Since then, I have often questioned God's existance mainly due to the fact that is evolution. I believe there may be 'something' out there for the universe to have been created in the first place but that's as far as it goes. I haven't studied the bible or any religions in depth so don't claim to be an expert on anything. I've taken an interest in JV's because my uncle is one, but I'll never agree with their beliefs (and in particular how they feel the need to knock on your door every few months). Other than that, and a few lessons in Religious Studies at school many moons ago, I know no more which is why I've enjoyed reading this so much. mybe one day, I'll pop to the library and look up some of these books you've all been raving about... but I've got to get through all the chick-lit ones first, lol!
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:26 AM   #429
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After being a lurker for some time now,(mostly because I am in awe of the intelligence of most of you and am afraid to embarass myself ). I have to step in and say that anyone who feels the need to stalk anyone because of their beleifs and their absolute right to state their beliefs should be ashamed of themselves. This is America and we are free(sorry to all the other countries represented on SCS), but to come back and hide your identity is just wrong!!!!
I hope Chris is OK, she does rock!!!!!!!
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:36 AM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendykins
This is America and we are free(sorry to all the other countries represented on SCS), but to come back and hide your identity is just wrong!!!!
I hope Chris is OK, she does rock!!!!!!!
Hi from England- where we invented it lol (please don't let the joke start an argument )
nah-seriously - you are right- totally agree
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:38 AM   #431
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Good morning everybody - I am still trying to get caught up from overnight, but I wanted to pop in.

I don't think Chris would want to distract you all from what this thread is about, which is a place for agnostics and athiests to share their thoughts and experiences. I know that everyone will want to rally around friends who have been wronged, and discuss it, but I would ask that you try to keep the speculating to a minimum, so as to preserve this nice thing you've got going here. I know as a Mod, that there have been attempts to discourage this thread, but I hope you all can keep it going, and I also hope that any who have felt it appropriate to "step back" for the time being, will see fit to rejoin this discussion.

I'm not trying to come in and dictate what should be discussed here, just want you all to have a care about posting details, or snippets of details that happened via PMs, emails, and elswhere on the internet. Thank you all in advance for giving it some thought...
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:06 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culpepper
LOL- you wanna swap for my one that snores ???? pretty please????
LOL Culpepper! My DH used to snore too!! I used to have to kick him (gently) so he would shut up for a little while, and then I would try to quickly fall asleep. He has been seriously exercising though, since August, and has lost about 40 pounds so he doesn't snore anymore. I had gotten so used to 8 years of his snoring, that sometimes I would listen to the silence in alarm (when I knew he was sleeping) and then run over to him to make sure he was alive (when he snored, he also had sleep apnea). (I work the graveyard shift, so we sleep different hours sometimes)

Sorry for the hijack.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:16 AM   #433
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I hope everyone is having a great weekend!

I have a funny (to me) story to share. My step MIL's birthday is this weekend and the party is being held in their church meeting room. Well, FIL (who I do not care for anyway) IM's us and says 'come early and go to church and the kids can go to Sunday School'. So, we politely said 'I think we will pass on church, thanks for the invite.'

Now...he KNOWS we are atheists and do not send our kids to Sunday School. This is the exact thing that bugs me. I understand he was prolly just trying to be nice and invite us along, but if you know it is something we would have no interest in because it goes against our beliefs, why keep pushing us?

I love this thread and you guys...just to get stuff like this off my chest.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:25 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine
LOL Culpepper! My DH used to snore too!! I used to have to kick him (gently) so he would shut up for a little while, and then I would try to quickly fall asleep. He has been seriously exercising though, since August, and has lost about 40 pounds so he doesn't snore anymore. I had gotten so used to 8 years of his snoring, that sometimes I would listen to the silence in alarm (when I knew he was sleeping) and then run over to him to make sure he was alive (when he snored, he also had sleep apnea). (I work the graveyard shift, so we sleep different hours sometimes)

Sorry for the hijack.
eek- I feel for you

DH snores not because of weight- he has always been skinny despite all that choccie - the B******* lol- he has polyps in his nose and a slightly bent septum- had it corrected three times but after a few months of blissfull silence it comes back lol- ah well
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:52 AM   #435
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Uuuggghhhh...i may have mentioned how devoutly religious DH's mother's entire family (with the exception of DH) is. They refuse to accept that we are not, nor are we planning to raise our daughter that way. They are constantly buying her religious gifts, talking to her about their particular brand of religion, and hounding us to take her to church (and make sure we are raising her in a godly, christian home - whole other post!). It isn't so bad now, because since DD is only 17 months old we can intercept the gifts, and she doesn't notice (had to donate no fewer than 5 books about the "real" Christmas story, a pop-up about the "real" Noah's Ark, children's treasury of Christian Bible Stories, and a t-shirt that said "I belong to Jesus Christ" after Christmas this year) that they go missing. And we just ignore the constant harrassment about church. This past Christmas we had to endure a 10 minute prayer before dinner that included some discussion on the evils of people trying to erase Christ from Christmas, shopping at stores that say Happy Holidays, how the Rapture was coming, and this may be our last year together and we all need to be sure we get right with God.....I thought I was gonna throw up. And DH almost left.

The ignoring is DH's plan forever. He doesn't want to have a knock-down drag-out thing with his family over this (and has yet to tell them he is an atheist). I don't blame him - they WILL flip out. But I think something needs to be done, and done soon. As she gets older, and we encourage her to explore and discover on her own, she will notice their personal issues with the whole scenario. And she will notice how mad it makes us. I also DO NOT under any circumstances want them teaching her about religion. Because they cannot do it in an objective way.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how we should proceed?

WOW. Sorry I can't help you - no kids. But you have my sympathy!! My in-laws were like this when we first got married - very pushy about religion. We actually went to church with them on a regular basis. It finally stopped when DH and his dad were having a heart-to-heart and it came out that we were just going to make them happy; not because we were believers.

Can you limit her visits with them? Also, maybe you can prepare her a little each time before she has contact with them?

I agree with the other postor who said that you risk driving it underground if you confront the in-laws. What about just letting them say what they want to her and then simply discussing what she and the in-laws have been talking about regarding religion? Then you can give her your point of view on that particular topic and ask what her own point of view is, and WHY. This would also help her to debate and question for herself what others will tell her. Maybe you could help her explore and discover right now (because your in-laws are "helping" her to explore and discover their brand of religion right NOW).

Um, on the other hand, let me repeat that I'm NOT a mother and therefore, I really don't know what I'm talking about here.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:24 AM   #436
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Wow! I am SO glad that you started this thread Chris! I have been thinking about starting one ever since the overtly religious threads were started, thinking that if it was ok for "them" to have a place to discuss their beliefs, that we should be allowed a place to discuss ours too. Thank you!

DH and I are both atheists. I guess I was pretty lucky growing up, my parents were already disillusioned with the "Church" so we never really went. I went to a Presbyterian Sunday School to learn "Christian morals". But that was about the extent of my exposure to religion until I was a teen. When I was 13 I joined a Baptist youth group, but that was more for the boys and the fun and games than for the "message" LOL (There were some really cute boys there )

After that I dabbled in Wicca. I was drawn to the natural side of things. Believing in the things you could see happening and so on, but the more mystical parts just didn't sit right with me. My step MIL and my FIL are Wiccans, and they are the nicest people I know.

Then DH and I tried the Native American way of life. Again, I was drawn to the natural side of things. We still have an Inipi (Sweat Lodge) in our back yard! And yes we do run sweats every now and then. It's like someone was talking about yoga and finding their center and meditating. That's what you get from sweating. Plus the whole re-enactment aspect is really fun too

Now after many years of searching and coming up empty, and not seeing any evidence to prove to me that there is a God, I can honestly say there isn't one. I need more than "faith" to make me believe.

Ok this has turned into a novel LOL. Thanks again for creating a place for us to gather and chat.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:30 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by laurakj
Wow! I am SO glad that you started this thread Chris! I have been thinking about starting one ever since the overtly religious threads were started, thinking that if it was ok for "them" to have a place to discuss their beliefs, that we should be allowed a place to discuss ours too. Thank you!

DH and I are both atheists. I guess I was pretty lucky growing up, my parents were already disillusioned with the "Church" so we never really went. I went to a Presbyterian Sunday School to learn "Christian morals". But that was about the extent of my exposure to religion until I was a teen. When I was 13 I joined a Baptist youth group, but that was more for the boys and the fun and games than for the "message" LOL (There were some really cute boys there )

After that I dabbled in Wicca. I was drawn to the natural side of things. Believing in the things you could see happening and so on, but the more mystical parts just didn't sit right with me. My step MIL and my FIL are Wiccans, and they are the nicest people I know.

Then DH and I tried the Native American way of life. Again, I was drawn to the natural side of things. We still have an Inipi (Sweat Lodge) in our back yard! And yes we do run sweats every now and then. It's like someone was talking about yoga and finding their center and meditating. That's what you get from sweating. Plus the whole re-enactment aspect is really fun too

Now after many years of searching and coming up empty, and not seeing any evidence to prove to me that there is a God, I can honestly say there isn't one. I need more than "faith" to make me believe.

Ok this has turned into a novel LOL. Thanks again for creating a place for us to gather and chat.
My body has it's own built-in sweat lodge.

Most folks refer to it as hot flashes.

Based on the frequency of said hot flashes, I should be the most grounded and centered person in the universe.

Rainsong
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:47 AM   #438
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My body has it's own built-in sweat lodge.

Most folks refer to it as hot flashes.

Based on the frequency of said hot flashes, I should be the most grounded and centered person in the universe.

Rainsong
I have a friend who refers to them as 'power surges'
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:56 AM   #439
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I have a friend who refers to them as 'power surges'
I usually do, but didn't think it fit with the sweat lodge image.

Rainsong
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:02 AM   #440
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Alright girls.....someone needs to slap me upside da head and help me figure out what to do! I have 8000 projects I would like to do, but can't stick to just one. RS......pick a project for me and DEMAND I GETTER DONE!
Thanks R-mom!
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