In the Forums

Register

Today's Posts

Search


Get the Weekly
Inkling
newsletter





Previous Issues

Get Social

Splitcoaststampers on InstagramLike Splitcoaststampers on FacebookFollow Splitcoaststampers on TwitterPit Splitcoaststampers on Pinterest

Sponsored Ads


 
Splitcoaststampers.com - the world's #1 papercrafting community
You're currently viewing Splitcoaststampers as a GUEST. We pride ourselves on being great hosts, but guests have limited access to some of our incredible artwork, our lively forums and other super cool features of the site! You can join our incredible papercrafting community at NO COST. So what are you waiting for?

Join the party at Splitcoaststampers today!

Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2008, 07:07 PM   #4121
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

So do I need to read it too? You up for letting a friend borrow it Wrose?
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:10 PM   #4122
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

And the other day I was in my car letting my mind wonder seeing a lot of flags up at people's homes. Was thinking about the Pledge of Allegiance. Couldn't remember how the second stanza started. But I vividly remember NOT saying "under God" in second grade. I even remember why. I thought "how can it be one god with all these different people in the world?"
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:13 PM   #4123
Polyshrink Goddess
 
bksjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Probably procrastinating
Posts: 1,060
Default

And Americans have, conveniently, forgotten that the "Under God" was not added until the 1950s McCarthyism. It really p***es me off when people complain about that in light of the history!
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
bksjones is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:36 PM   #4124
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bksjones View Post
And Americans have, conveniently, forgotten that the "Under God" was not added until the 1950s McCarthyism. It really p***es me off when people complain about that in light of the history!
I know. I'd love to see it removed. Like that will happen any time soon.

It's just totally unnecesssary.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:36 PM   #4125
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
So do I need to read it too? You up for letting a friend borrow it Wrose?
Sure!!!

I even got the hardcover!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:27 PM   #4126
Diversified Multicultural Postmodern Deconstructionist Philogian
 
Rainsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sitting on the hot rock
Posts: 29,724
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
The God Delusion was a good book for me to read too, and I had also looked at it from the library and knew I needed to buy it. So I did!
I can't believe I'm still waiting for the library to call me and tell me the book is on reserve for me.

Guess I'm going to have to call them and see if it's back in--or buy it.

Rainsong
__________________
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. Lao Tzu
Rainsong is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:29 PM   #4127
Diversified Multicultural Postmodern Deconstructionist Philogian
 
Rainsong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sitting on the hot rock
Posts: 29,724
Default

Hah! I checked online.

It's in.

They didn't call. Wait until I get there...I'm gonna give Linda and Becky a talkin' to.

Rainsong
__________________
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. Lao Tzu
Rainsong is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 08:34 PM   #4128
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

HAH! I was going to say, it's even out in paper now.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 10:44 PM   #4129
Hardware Hotshot
 
Samantha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 4,125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainsong View Post
Hah! I checked online.

It's in.

They didn't call. Wait until I get there...I'm gonna give Linda and Becky a talkin' to.

Rainsong
If there is a mix up and it is not in yet my friend, I can send you mine to borrow. I have been too busy to read it yet. So just let me know and I will send it to you.

One other thing that is weird. So many people who come here are ex-Catholics. What happened to us that we left? I remember being scared to death of going to hell when I was in the 2nd grade when we learned about confession and going to hell. It was awful. I thought about it all the time. And I was 7.

I took a little piece of chalk home one day from school in 1st grade before I went to a catholic school and I never returned it. On my 1st confession, I was too afraid to tell the priest because the priest looked out each time a new kid came into the confessional to see who was coming in. He was a good friend of y dad. So I didn't tell him. Another reason to go to hell. This is too much for a little kid to carry on their conscience about being doomed to hell.

I was taught to live in fear all the time.
__________________
Sammie # 7651

When you get in a tight place and everything goes against you, till it seems as though you could not hold on a minute longer, never give up then, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn. -- Harriet Beecher Stowe
Samantha is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 10:53 PM   #4130
Rubber Obsessor
 
jackbuilt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 164
Default

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if I got in trouble at public school, my mom would threaten to send me to the catholic school. I always straightened right up.

Jackbuilt
__________________
"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~Abraham Lincoln
jackbuilt is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 06:45 AM   #4131
Stazon Splitcoast
 
nadine529's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Naples, FL
Posts: 15,680
Send a message via MSN to nadine529 Send a message via Yahoo to nadine529 Send a message via Skype™ to nadine529
Default

I hated Catholic school. I was hit multiple times by both nuns and lay teachers. My piano teacher was an old b'itch of a nun who would whack my fingers when I hit the wrong key. If you moved she would make you hold your hands out for her to whack 'em good with a pointing stick. One time a priest was walking next to me and the nun principal was on the other side of him. Well, he tripped and the nun blamed me for it and told me to apologize. The priest just stood there waiting for an apology from me when he knew damn well I didn't trip him. I refused to apologize and stood there with my mouth open waiting for the priest to tell her I didn't trip him. He never did and I got detention for it.

I couldn't believe that these were supposed to be the people who were "closer to God". I thought, "wow, what a crock."

I can say with certainty that the hypocrisy that I saw in 8 years of Catholic grammar school, 2 years of high school & 2 more in college was enough to turn me off completely to the Catholic church.

After my experience with my husband and his brain surgery, I have pretty much resolved myself to atheism, but a small part of me (deep-rooted catholic guilt, maybe?) holds out hope that there is more to this world. I still believe in spirituality, just not all of the religious hoopla.
__________________
~Nadine

C'est moi, c'est tout.
nadine529 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 07:37 AM   #4132
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nadine529 View Post
I hated Catholic school. I was hit multiple times by both nuns and lay teachers. My piano teacher was an old b'itch of a nun who would whack my fingers when I hit the wrong key. If you moved she would make you hold your hands out for her to whack 'em good with a pointing stick. One time a priest was walking next to me and the nun principal was on the other side of him. Well, he tripped and the nun blamed me for it and told me to apologize. The priest just stood there waiting for an apology from me when he knew damn well I didn't trip him. I refused to apologize and stood there with my mouth open waiting for the priest to tell her I didn't trip him. He never did and I got detention for it.

I couldn't believe that these were supposed to be the people who were "closer to God". I thought, "wow, what a crock."

I can say with certainty that the hypocrisy that I saw in 8 years of Catholic grammar school, 2 years of high school & 2 more in college was enough to turn me off completely to the Catholic church.

After my experience with my husband and his brain surgery, I have pretty much resolved myself to atheism, but a small part of me (deep-rooted catholic guilt, maybe?) holds out hope that there is more to this world. I still believe in spirituality, just not all of the religious hoopla.
I never was hit, just threatened to have my mouth taped shut once. Oh, and in 7th grade a teacher backed me up against a wall yelled at me and told me I sounded like a fishwife because I used the term BS (gasp!) talking to my friends. I was one of the quiet well-behaved ones. I think my brothers were smacked though. I remember kids being put in the teacher's coat closet. You know in my early grades we had 40 or more kids in a class. I can't imagine trying to control that many. I still saw some of it, in the bad old days, when I taught at a catholic school in the late 70's, from one teacher anyway.
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 07:43 AM   #4133
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
So do I need to read it too? You up for letting a friend borrow it Wrose?
Definitely must read Dawkins! It's the thing that finally turned me completely off religion. The section on how people's beliefs about a supreme being come about and specifically the section about "cargo cults" in the South Pacific during WWII was really fascinating. Pacific Islanders thought the soldiers were gods because these big birds would land on the island and bring them whatever they wanted. The whole thing was amazing. I have the hard cover too.

People complain about Dawkins and others as being strident atheists. I think the reason some have gotten strident is because religion was holding too much sway especially in this country. Evolution is just a theory? US scientists conclusions about global warning rewritten? I think that's reason to get strident!
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 10:27 AM   #4134
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily55 View Post
Definitely must read Dawkins! It's the thing that finally turned me completely off religion. The section on how people's beliefs about a supreme being come about and specifically the section about "cargo cults" in the South Pacific during WWII was really fascinating. Pacific Islanders thought the soldiers were gods because these big birds would land on the island and bring them whatever they wanted. The whole thing was amazing. I have the hard cover too.

People complain about Dawkins and others as being strident atheists. I think the reason some have gotten strident is because religion was holding too much sway especially in this country. Evolution is just a theory? US scientists conclusions about global warning rewritten? I think that's reason to get strident!
reminds me of the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy".
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 12:10 PM   #4135
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

V, I'm not sure that YOU "need" to read them.

I have a friend who's been an atheist forever. She never heard of Dawkins. She has simply never felt a need to look into why some people get where they are, because she's always been there.

She hasn't read any of the books I have, like Hutchins' God is Not Great... Anyway, just thought that was interesting.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 12:48 PM   #4136
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
V, I'm not sure that YOU "need" to read them.

I have a friend who's been an atheist forever. She never heard of Dawkins. She has simply never felt a need to look into why some people get where they are, because she's always been there.

She hasn't read any of the books I have, like Hutchins' God is Not Great... Anyway, just thought that was interesting.
I suppose you're right (but read 'em anyways! ) but I want to have some information handy to combat erroneous claims made by people. Just the other day I overheard a woman talking about evolution couldn't be fact because blood clotting is not something that could have developed over time. It was something she "learned" at church. I knew I had read something about how there is an explanation for that but I had to go look it up again cuz my memory is sooo bad. Anyway, I think there's lots of good information in Dawkins and other writers.
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 08:16 AM   #4137
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

I like to read it just to have something like minded to learn from.

And while I've always felt this way I've gone to churches and enjoyed myself (for the most part but I won't go into the Mother's day sermon a few years ago) respectfully listened, even got some insight through the lessons. Just never agreed that there was a God, that he created everything, that fate exists, that faith works.


*hahahaha I misspelled lessons as lesions. Freudian slip?
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 03:26 PM   #4138
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
I like to read it just to have something like minded to learn from.

And while I've always felt this way I've gone to churches and enjoyed myself (for the most part but I won't go into the Mother's day sermon a few years ago) respectfully listened, even got some insight through the lessons. Just never agreed that there was a God, that he created everything, that fate exists, that faith works.


*hahahaha I misspelled lessons as lesions. Freudian slip?
Aww, go ahead. Tell the story!
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 03:42 PM   #4139
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

Alright you talked me into it.

It was the mother's day after my daughter died and I was pregnant again. We were at my inlaw's cult, er I mean church as a gift to MIL. The lesson was about the godliness of mother's or some such nonsense. Basically that it is the best job for a woman to strive for. SO of course I start thinking "well gee that must make all the women who are unable to have kids feel real great" then they start with the lesbians. Essentially it came down to them being evil (yes they said that) because they dont' procreate (hmmm according to my biology lessons I believe lesbians CAN make babies) That they can never be moms and that they will never be doing god's work.

So here I am sitting five months pregnant after having buried my first baby seven months ago, with a gay sister whom my inlaws know. I'm getting hotter and hotter and my DH;s hand is getting tighter and tighter on my thigh.

I had never liked that church and always felt it was pretty narrow minded but I was astonished that some of those sentences were coming out of the pastor's mouth.

Our visits there have since been few and far between.
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:29 PM   #4140
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
Alright you talked me into it.

It was the mother's day after my daughter died and I was pregnant again. We were at my inlaw's cult, er I mean church as a gift to MIL. The lesson was about the godliness of mother's or some such nonsense. Basically that it is the best job for a woman to strive for. SO of course I start thinking "well gee that must make all the women who are unable to have kids feel real great" then they start with the lesbians. Essentially it came down to them being evil (yes they said that) because they dont' procreate (hmmm according to my biology lessons I believe lesbians CAN make babies) That they can never be moms and that they will never be doing god's work.

So here I am sitting five months pregnant after having buried my first baby seven months ago, with a gay sister whom my inlaws know. I'm getting hotter and hotter and my DH;s hand is getting tighter and tighter on my thigh.

I had never liked that church and always felt it was pretty narrow minded but I was astonished that some of those sentences were coming out of the pastor's mouth.

Our visits there have since been few and far between.
I can picture the scene. Typical heathen - caring about other people and their feelings! Caring about childless mothers and ostrasized lesbians!

And people always quote Paul about women not speaking out in church. They never think that maybe the reason he said that is because there were women speaking up back then.

Do you still go to church to please them?
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:30 PM   #4141
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Oh, I guess I didn't read the last sentence of your post. Guess you don't go their church!
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 04:34 PM   #4142
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily55 View Post
I can picture the scene. Typical heathen - caring about other people and their feelings! Caring about childless mothers and ostrasized lesbians!

And people always quote Paul about women not speaking out in church. They never think that maybe the reason he said that is because there were women speaking up back then.

Do you still go to church to please them?
I never went to PLEASE them. They know I dont' believe in God but we have gone since then but now not for over two years. Mostly as a gift to my MIL. SO she could show us off and share the baby and stuff. But I pretty much told dh that I will be willing to meet them there to go other places and I'll be civil to the people but THAT IS IT. He agreed anyway.

You know I've always seen a look on the faces of the people and couldn't quite put my finger on it but now I think it's like an abused person. Pleading eyes but blank too. Like they want everyone to agree that their religion and church of choice is the BEST but they aren't sure and kinda feel beaten down. Creepy.
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2008, 06:27 PM   #4143
Polyshrink Goddess
 
bksjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Probably procrastinating
Posts: 1,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
Alright you talked me into it.

It was the mother's day after my daughter died and I was pregnant again. We were at my inlaw's cult, er I mean church as a gift to MIL. The lesson was about the godliness of mother's or some such nonsense. Basically that it is the best job for a woman to strive for. SO of course I start thinking "well gee that must make all the women who are unable to have kids feel real great" then they start with the lesbians. Essentially it came down to them being evil (yes they said that) because they dont' procreate (hmmm according to my biology lessons I believe lesbians CAN make babies) That they can never be moms and that they will never be doing god's work.

So here I am sitting five months pregnant after having buried my first baby seven months ago, with a gay sister whom my inlaws know. I'm getting hotter and hotter and my DH;s hand is getting tighter and tighter on my thigh.

I had never liked that church and always felt it was pretty narrow minded but I was astonished that some of those sentences were coming out of the pastor's mouth.

Our visits there have since been few and far between.

WHAT A CROCK!!! Oh it just burns me that they claim crap like that! This is the kind of stuff that has turned me away from Christianity so much. No is perfect and has the right to judge another's lifystyle or choices. I don't understand how the very devout can so heartily embrace small bits of gospel, but can almost ignore large dogma like judge not!

Okay, I'll stop ranting now!
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
bksjones is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 01:43 AM   #4144
Compulsive Stamper
 
jogry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: in Bali,Indonesia, formerly in Australia
Posts: 85
Default

What did God do after he made the world?
__________________


jogry/bali
jogry is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 01:50 AM   #4145
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogry View Post
What did God do after he made the world?
Well your question assumes there's a god. From your other posts in the thread, I thought you didn't believe.

So I'm a tad confused. Or were you being sarcastic?
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 07:02 AM   #4146
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
I never went to PLEASE them. They know I dont' believe in God but we have gone since then but now not for over two years. Mostly as a gift to my MIL. SO she could show us off and share the baby and stuff. But I pretty much told dh that I will be willing to meet them there to go other places and I'll be civil to the people but THAT IS IT. He agreed anyway.

You know I've always seen a look on the faces of the people and couldn't quite put my finger on it but now I think it's like an abused person. Pleading eyes but blank too. Like they want everyone to agree that their religion and church of choice is the BEST but they aren't sure and kinda feel beaten down. Creepy.
I don't see the beaten downpart. I think of it more as "I've found my group, I've found my book of beliefs. I have my answers, just don't mess with that! The fact that other groups also claim to be believers but don't believe exactly what I believe makes me feel superior(?). Idon't know. I know there are lots of believers who are more liberal in their views but the problem is they are not the ones who are trying to promote creationism, have prayer in schools, or use public money to promote their vision.
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 07:57 AM   #4147
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

Martha I was speaking specifically of this church and I think most of the women are pretty well controlled by their husbands. I know my MIL does EVERYTHING for my FIL. ANd there are some pretty sick characters there too. One guy actually asked out my MIL. My FIL is the deacon, everyone knows their married But there is also some kindness it's just always tempered with the heavy layering of belief.
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 07:59 AM   #4148
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Well your question assumes there's a god. From your other posts in the thread, I thought you didn't believe.

So I'm a tad confused. Or were you being sarcastic?
I'm thinking she is asking, why if he did ALL of this is he now not doing anything?

An example: A new species of plant is discovered in the Amazon, I dont' hear people proclaiming GOd's up to his old trick again and making new plants. KWIM?
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 09:23 AM   #4149
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
Martha I was speaking specifically of this church and I think most of the women are pretty well controlled by their husbands. I know my MIL does EVERYTHING for my FIL. ANd there are some pretty sick characters there too. One guy actually asked out my MIL. My FIL is the deacon, everyone knows their married But there is also some kindness it's just always tempered with the heavy layering of belief.
OK. I get it. I don't specifically have direct experience with this type of setting. Very creepy. I mean my mother, catholic, took very good care of my father but she was also a strong presence in the home, nothing beaten down about her!
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 10:49 AM   #4150
Polyshrink Goddess
 
bksjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Probably procrastinating
Posts: 1,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
I'm thinking she is asking, why if he did ALL of this is he now not doing anything?

An example: A new species of plant is discovered in the Amazon, I dont' hear people proclaiming GOd's up to his old trick again and making new plants. KWIM?
Ooh Ooh! I learned in "The God Delision" about deists and theists. Theists (Christians, Jews, Muslims) believe that God created the universe and is now running the entire show, listening to your thoughts, etc. Deists belive that God created the universe and then left it alone. Interesting, no?
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
bksjones is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 04:03 PM   #4151
Polyshrink Goddess
 
bksjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Probably procrastinating
Posts: 1,060
Default

That should be "Delusion" of course.
__________________
Barb
IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*IIII*
"No one's really gonna be free until nerd persecution ends."
bksjones is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 09:51 PM   #4152
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
I'm thinking she is asking, why if he did ALL of this is he now not doing anything?

An example: A new species of plant is discovered in the Amazon, I dont' hear people proclaiming GOd's up to his old trick again and making new plants. KWIM?
That's kind of what I was thinking too.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 10:33 AM   #4153
Die Cut Diva
 
stampingdenise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Serving True Bloods at Merlotte's
Posts: 6,629
Default

Hi ladies. I've been on occasional lurker on this thread, reading all the interesting things you have to say. I'm not sure what I consider myself, but I definitely do not believe in the concept of organized religion. However, I haven't really outed myself yet. I do not believe there's an invisible man in the clouds who hears our thoughts. I do not believe praying will make things happen. But I do believe there's life after death - (mroe specifically, I believe there's a continuation of energy after death and that some day science will be able to explain it. ) And I believe people find strength within themselves to find/do/discover whatever it is they think prayer will resolve.

I have to say I am intrigued by the pagan religions and buddism and hinduism.

I have something that's been bugging me for some time, and I need to sound off against people who will understand, so I'm hoping you can help me with this.

My in-laws are rather religious people. FIL is a somewhat born-again Methodist. Makes trips to Jersualem every other year or so. He's sometimes preachy, but not too bad. Mostly it's about what he feels he should do for himself. My MIL is a devout catholic. (DH and I were both raised Catholic and have since recovered.) She's said things to me that have clearly crossed the line, and I don't know how to deal with it. For example, we didn't baptize my DD until she was almost a year old. (And the only reason we did - the hypocrites we are - was to keep the family peace.) She told me we were punishing her by not baptizing her.

Also, she provides child care for my DD one day a week. (Not by choice, she sorta inserted herself into the role, but that's the topic of a whole 'nother thread.) Now my DD who is almost 4 is repeating things like "Jesus died on the cross for our sins" "The bad guys put Jesus on the cross." Stuff like that. And I know it's MIL doing it - every chance she gets she buys her religious books and stuff because she thinks we are failing in our religious education of her.

Now, I don't have a problem with her being exposed to religion - as there are lots of religions in the world and she can't go around believing that believers are bad or wrong. LOL. But what I have a hard time with is MIL teaching her only ONE relgion as being 'right.' And also the whole boundaries issue...

So what do I do? DH is not willing to confront his mother on this - he's afraid anything we say will break her heart. And it's true - the woman is very sensitive and she would be very hurt by the fact that we don't want to raise our DD in the same belief system by which she raised her kids. Again, it's not her decision, but how do we diplomatically tell her that. And of course, this is part of the reason we haven't really 'come out' about our beliefs. Normally when I have issues with MIL, I can work with FIL on them because he gets it and he agrees. But not with the religious stuff.

OH yeah, forgot to mention they once told us they were going to kidnap our DD and baptize her themselves if we weren't going to do it. They were joking, but yet, it isn't something I'd put past them to do, either.

So how do all of you live as atheists in a non-atheist world? I felel like a liar for not just admitting I don't believe in religion... but it's so much easier and so much less confrontational this way.
__________________
Denise
stampingdenise is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 11:05 AM   #4154
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

Denise, Welcome,

I'm sorry you're struggling with your MIL. My kids were raised catholic and eventually came to being atheists all by themselves. I can just imagine trying to deal with my mother if I had been an agnostic 30 years ago!

I wonder if you ought to have more discussions with your husband. Not the "will you please deal with your mother kind" but just about "what do we want for our daughter as she gets older. She's going to continue to see grandma which I'm sure is why she insinuated herself as daycare provider. She's going to be seeing and hearing things from kids at school, TV etc. She's also going to get confused if you start telling her what grandma says is just a story and we don't believe that.

So talk about what things do we want our child exposed to and how do we do that? How do we progress as she gets older? Do we want to expose her to any religious education at all? Once she is school age, MIL is going to want to take her to CCD so she can make her first communion and first penance. Do you want that? Your husband may be unwilling to confront his mother but maybe if you talk more you can both deal with the fact that MIL is not going away and this will only become more of an issue the older the kid gets. Say we need to really mull this over and make some decisions instead of just letting it float.

If you want religious education can she be taken to a Unitarian Universalist (UU) Fellowship for religious education? UU's learn about all different kinds of beliefs and everyone is free to believe what they want including being an atheist. Spriituality there is about more than believing in god. it's about how you deal with life, and finding meaning in your life.

Just some thoughts. HTH
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 05:05 PM   #4155
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Hey Denise,

Another thought is to begin introducing her to other world religions. Find children's books about major religions to balance the Catholic thing.

One of my atheist friends did that - no MIL, just what she wanted to do. She homeschools, so they spent awhile on Egypt - when they were like 5 years old - teaching about the culture and religious beliefs, all the gods, etc. To the point where, when they found a dead bird in the yard, the daughter made a shoe-box sarcophagus for it.

So rather than try to fight it, just give you daughter all kinds of info. When she says "Jesus died for our sins" you can say, "That's what some people believe. There are many different beliefs out there all over the world." Make it sound interesting and exciting.

If you are interested, I can ask my friend where she found some of her stuff. I know she spends a lot of time at the library!!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 05:07 PM   #4156
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Oh, I meant to finish with - after Egypt, they did Asia, covered Hinduism, Buddhism, and several others. Finally they got to Europe and Christianity - just another world religion.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 06:43 PM   #4157
neglecting the kids and housework
 
sewsplendidstamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Fund raising
Posts: 61,782
Default

How sad is it that we feel obligated to watch what we say but others don't curb their religious beliefs when it's inappropriate?
__________________
Victoria
~Made of awesome
~Bras For The Cause
sewsplendidstamper is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 10:07 AM   #4158
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Default

I found out that Religulous is opening in my little city this weekend. I'm going to see it this afternoon!
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!

Last edited by tigerlily55; 10-24-2008 at 10:08 AM.. Reason: spelling
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 03:30 PM   #4159
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,629
Post Religulous (somewhat long)

So, I saw Religulous this afternoon. It was entertaining but I was a little disappointed. I think there could have been more substance to it, but it is supposed to be entertainment I guess.

It was quite fun the way he would insert clips from 40-50 year old religious movies and movies produced by a particular brand of christianity to help illustrate a point.

He talked to Christian ministers, and he also did some filming in Jerusalem and talked about issues with the Temple Mount. He talked to some people there and in Denmark talking about Theo Van Gogh and questioned the disparate attitude between Muslims who say it's a peaceful religion and those who want to kill all infidels and kill anyone who disparges their religion.

He talked to one Christian minister who wore expensive suits and lizard shoes and said jesus wanted people to be successful. Mahr brought up the "it's easier for a camel (or rope if you believe a revised view of this passage) to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. The guy he was talking to couldn't even quote the passage.

He talked to a hispanic minister who bills himself as the risen christ. Supposedly has 100,000 supporters.

Actually, catholics came off fairly well. He talked to one guy in Rome who supposedly was a priest and brought up stuff like hell and the guy just said no, nobody believes that anymore. He talked to a priest-astronomer. The guy pointed out that the bible was written between 2500BCE and 200CE. He noted that there wasn't a whole lot of science going on back then. Major science advancements have mostly been happening the last few hundred years. So if there was no science back then, the bible can't be an authority on science.

During one segment he had pictures and info regarding the previous religions who had used the virgin and risen savior motif, Mithra and in ancient Egypt -Horus. The people he talked to seemed to be unaware of these facts.

He seemed to be trying to do this as an "everyman" in a way. He asked questions more like the average skeptic might ask. When the person responded he usually said, "you believe ______? Come onnnn!" Where as some of the folks who post here would have had a more informed response especially to the christians statements.

In interviews Mahr always said he was just asking questions, not trying to make anyone look stupid. However, at the end he does come out and say that he believes it's important for atheists/agnostics to start speaking out. He put it that now that we can destroy ourselves, the craziness of religion is something that shouldn't be tolerated any longer.

Probably more info than you wanted but I thought I'd post.
__________________
Martha
Go Pack Go!
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 03:53 PM   #4160
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,650
Default

Martha, I do appreciate ALL the details. I kind of got that he didn't talk to well-versed people either. That it wasn't his intention to do a documentary by learned people, more just see what the average person would say.

He has a point that there's been a lot of crazy stuff done through history in the name of religion!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off