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Unread 03-18-2017, 12:17 PM   #3281
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I now am seeing that the Anglican clergy in Australia have been hiding clergy sexual assault just like Catholics. Moral authority? I think not!
Yes, it is disgusting what the churches have covered up to protect their own. Stephanie
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Unread 04-04-2017, 11:38 PM   #3282
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Pope declares evolution and Big Bang Theory to be real
Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are real and God is not 'a magician with a magic wand' | The Independent
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Unread 04-05-2017, 01:44 AM   #3283
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"The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it."
This looks suspiciously like having your cake and eating it too.
Evolution does not require a divine creator - it happens, quite happily, on its own.
Stephanie
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Unread 04-05-2017, 03:26 AM   #3284
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Well, this is still a nice surprise... I'd rather him accept these in his own way rather than insisting that the earth is 10,000 years old and completely denying evolution.
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Unread 04-05-2017, 06:48 AM   #3285
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"The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it."
This looks suspiciously like having your cake and eating it too.
Evolution does not require a divine creator - it happens, quite happily, on its own.
Stephanie
That's what hit me too however this isn't new, it's from 2014. I don't know about Benedict but in general I don't recall this being an issue for a long time.

I see great irony here. In the realm of science, the Pope's words pretty much make it clear that the church is willing to accept that what we once thought we knew must change over time as we learn ever more
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Unread 04-27-2017, 07:44 PM   #3286
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I grew up Catholic with Catholic schools in the fifties and sixties, and learned evolution right along with religious teaching.

I remember in the very early grades, the nuns were saying that the "seven days" of Genesis were basically a metaphor. I remember her saying, "What is a day, to God? It could be a million years."

So, fortunately, at least my religious education caused no problems with science.

I had always assumed all Catholics learned that but have since come to understand that there are some very conservative Catholics out there.
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Unread 04-27-2017, 07:45 PM   #3287
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I have a question.

If De Vos wants the Dept. of Education to fund religious schools, can they please start paying taxes now?
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Unread 04-28-2017, 05:18 AM   #3288
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I have a question.

If De Vos wants the Dept. of Education to fund religious schools, can they please start paying taxes now?
Yeah, that's gonna happen... I think if these private schools want public money they should have to operate like public schools. They must have guidance counselors, special ed programs, after school sports and clubs, music education and band or orchestras. Some may supply these things but I'd guess not very many.
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Unread 04-28-2017, 03:53 PM   #3289
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It depends. It can be a very good religious school with people paying good money to attend, and it will still get money in De Vos' world.

The bad religious schools will get money too, and public schools will be hung out to dry.
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Unread 04-28-2017, 03:54 PM   #3290
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Public schools can't suffer the cuts she wants to make. Religious schools have people who are willing to pay, so once again the white and moneyed will be the ones that get educated.
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Unread 04-29-2017, 05:16 AM   #3291
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It depends. It can be a very good religious school with people paying good money to attend, and it will still get money in De Vos' world.

The bad religious schools will get money too, and public schools will be hung out to dry.
Yes, you're right. There are Very expensive schools that have those things. I'm thinking more about local Catholic or Lutheran elementary. middle and high schools. I'd say that those are the majority of the schools that benefit from vouchers.
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Unread 04-29-2017, 05:21 AM   #3292
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Public schools can't suffer the cuts she wants to make. Religious schools have people who are willing to pay, so once again the white and moneyed will be the ones that get educated.
I have been on a self-imposed news blackout to preserve my mental health. I can't help seeing the occasional headline but that is all. Was she in the news recently?
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Unread 04-29-2017, 02:28 PM   #3293
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Nothing specific in the news, other than even though vouchers have been shown to lower scores in some schools, she doesn't care; they're going to do new studies under 45, I'm sure he'll make sure they support what he wants to see.

And she's taking down protections for student loans, and may be in the process of not releasing people from their student loans after 15 years of service in a lot of jobs.

This was promised to people, and some are already suing over it.
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Unread 06-09-2017, 04:42 AM   #3294
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Used to post here until I had some health issues that took up all of my time for a couple of years. Just now getting back on track and connected. Hope you have all been well & thoughtful as ever. From your Canadian friend. Used to post as lilactime.

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Unread 06-09-2017, 05:19 AM   #3295
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Used to post here until I had some health issues that took up all of my time for a couple of years. Just now getting back on track and connected. Hope you have all been well & thoughtful as ever. From your Canadian friend. Used to post as lilactime.
Hey there! Welcome back. 0 Thanks for reviving the thread, too. Got any hot topics you'd like to discuss?
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Unread 06-09-2017, 12:29 PM   #3296
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Hello! Welcome back!

Yeah it has been quiet here.

Hot topics. There's a new one every day. I honestly wish there wasn't. I liked it when people just did their jobs, acted like professionals. Who knew certain jobs were considered entry level positions?
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Unread 06-09-2017, 01:06 PM   #3297
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Used to post here until I had some health issues that took up all of my time for a couple of years. Just now getting back on track and connected. Hope you have all been well & thoughtful as ever. From your Canadian friend. Used to post as lilactime.
Welcome from New Zealand. I'm glad you are better, good to have you back!
Stephanie
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Unread 06-09-2017, 01:28 PM   #3298
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Default Our WI Legislature at work...

If you read the Friendly Atheist blog you might have seen this. A fundy legislator actually said out loud that the earth is 6,000 yrs. old.At least the rest of them told the guy to step down from the EDUCATION Committee!
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Unread 07-21-2017, 07:05 PM   #3299
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Thanks for the warm welcome back - so nice to find you all again. Well as far as discussion, I imagine the political situation in the States is an ongoing cause for concern. I have wondered how you are doing with that and what helps you to deal with it?
Our last PM here was "Trumplike" and we were glad when he was replaced by Trudeau. The opposition is still lurking in all it's negativity, but I think we have had enough of them being in power for a good long while.
For me, I subscribe to "A Word A Day" (it's free) and the chap who creates this site has come up with some humdinger quotes and other tidbits that have given me a boost and a little hope.
Today I am trying to come up with some special card designs for my adult daughter and son's birthdays. My daughter is a movie director and I got a neat set of dies - one is an old fashioned movie camera on a tripod and the other is a film strip. I plan to write unique things in the three open frames ;o) Now, to figure out what to do for my son...
There is to be a joint celebration this weekend.
So nice to be back and to hear from all of you.
Sandy
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Unread 07-21-2017, 08:32 PM   #3300
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That a Trump-like prime minister can be replaced with someone like Trudeau is encouraging in itself! Good luck with the card for your son.
Stephanie
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Unread 07-21-2017, 09:46 PM   #3301
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Some days I just stamp for hours, it keeps me from reading too much news. It's like Bizarro World down here.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 02:18 AM   #3302
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I just came back from visiting my sister and her kids. Her oldest son, 12, told me that slave owners were kind to their slaves, and Harriet Tubman was one of the very few slaves who were unhappy being slaves. He kept saying slaves were the South's livelihood so the Yankees were the bad guys. I was sooooooooooo horrified. I told my sister what he had said, for fear that she also believed the same thing (she does believe the earth is only 6000 years old, or whatever). Fortunately, she said he would have to be "re-educated" (he is homeschooled). So at the very least, I was relieved that my sister didn't feel like that about the slaves.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 04:01 AM   #3303
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I just came back from visiting my sister and her kids. Her oldest son, 12, told me that slave owners were kind to their slaves, and Harriet Tubman was one of the very few slaves who were unhappy being slaves. He kept saying slaves were the South's livelihood so the Yankees were the bad guys. I was sooooooooooo horrified. I told my sister what he had said, for fear that she also believed the same thing (she does believe the earth is only 6000 years old, or whatever). Fortunately, she said he would have to be "re-educated" (he is homeschooled). So at the very least, I was relieved that my sister didn't feel like that about the slaves.
I wonder what started this conversation. If she is a creationist, isn't that view of slavery "bible based"?
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Unread 07-22-2017, 04:13 AM   #3304
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My nephew just likes arguing and debating with me. My sister (his mom) once explained that I am sooooooooooooooo far off the spectrum of EVERYONE ELSE in his universe that he finds me and my views very disturbing but kind of fascinating in that they are so completely alien.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 04:15 AM   #3305
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I mean, so nothing started it. Out of the blue, he'll just pick a topic that he knows we (him and I) will disagree on, and start arguing.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 11:19 AM   #3306
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I guess I would ask him how he thinks it would feel to be a slave, to think about that as a person. The lack of compassion or empathy there might just be a lack of knowledge. Maybe he never thought about the details of slavery. It's great to have a nice job and be taken care of but there are side effects........

That's where I'd start. Never mind the history, make it personal for him to think about and then maybe, maybe, some thinking will lead to a logical conclusion that maybe it wasn't so great to be a slave.
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Unread 07-22-2017, 02:29 PM   #3307
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My nephew just likes arguing and debating with me. My sister (his mom) once explained that I am sooooooooooooooo far off the spectrum of EVERYONE ELSE in his universe that he finds me and my views very disturbing but kind of fascinating in that they are so completely alien.
Wow! If your nephew were to come to NZ he would find his views off the radar! However, just this morning I read an article about how a home-schooled creationalist went on to make a text-book changing advance in science so all hope is not lost.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...m_source=atlfb

Stephanie
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Unread 07-23-2017, 01:41 AM   #3308
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I guess I would ask him how he thinks it would feel to be a slave, to think about that as a person. The lack of compassion or empathy there might just be a lack of knowledge. Maybe he never thought about the details of slavery. It's great to have a nice job and be taken care of but there are side effects........

That's where I'd start. Never mind the history, make it personal for him to think about and then maybe, maybe, some thinking will lead to a logical conclusion that maybe it wasn't so great to be a slave.

Yes. I didn't bother asking him. But I did say that if _I_ were a slave, I would not want to see my children being slaves. Or my husband, my sisters, etc. So far he only feels compassion and empathy for the slave owners and the Confederate soldiers. Hopefully he'll change as he grows up. I'm not gonna hold my breath. I only see him about twice a year, so... I can only talk to him so much.
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Unread 07-23-2017, 01:47 AM   #3309
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Wow! If your nephew were to come to NZ he would find his views off the radar! However, just this morning I read an article about how a home-schooled creationalist went on to make a text-book changing advance in science so all hope is not lost.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...m_source=atlfb

Stephanie
Wow, that is fascinating!!

Although realistically, my nephew will do no such thing. He's not at all interested in science. He's interested in history and politics. As far as science goes, he IS homeschooled, but his parents believe the earth is only 6000 years old and they are creationists. Oh well. I mean, I know this guy was also a home-schooled creationist, but this guy LOVES science.

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Unread 07-23-2017, 12:11 PM   #3310
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Wow, that is fascinating!!

Although realistically, my nephew will do no such thing. He's not at all interested in science. He's interested in history and politics. As far as science goes, he IS homeschooled, but his parents believe the earth is only 6000 years old and they are creationists. Oh well. I mean, I know this guy was also a home-schooled creationist, but this guy LOVES science.
You are right, your nephew isn't showing the signs. Still, at least the story shows that scientists can be born as well as bred!
Stephanie
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Unread 07-23-2017, 01:09 PM   #3311
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Yes. I didn't bother asking him. But I did say that if _I_ were a slave, I would not want to see my children being slaves. Or my husband, my sisters, etc. So far he only feels compassion and empathy for the slave owners and the Confederate soldiers. Hopefully he'll change as he grows up. I'm not gonna hold my breath. I only see him about twice a year, so... I can only talk to him so much.
Oh I know. It's not up to you, a minor character in his life. But still, you planted some seeds, that's about all you can do, and hope for the best.


It's sad to me that religion is allowed to dictate education; this isn't doing the country any good, raising people that know nothing about real science and see the bible as a science book.
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Unread 07-28-2017, 08:45 AM   #3312
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Here's one for y'all to get your teeth into: Why religious people 'cling' to beliefs even when contradicted by evidence | The Independent
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Unread 07-28-2017, 09:27 AM   #3313
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I've got a question for you. I understand how moral correctness would help religious people feel more certain about the correctness of something (the "what would Jesus do?" thing). I don't understand exactly what they mean when they say "In contrast, moral concerns make non-religious people feel less certain." What would an example of that be?
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Unread 07-28-2017, 09:45 AM   #3314
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Thanks for the article. So, I was empathetic for the first 52 years of my life and now I'm totally analytical? I think this is sweeping generalizations.
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Unread 07-28-2017, 09:56 AM   #3315
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I've got a question for you. I understand how moral correctness would help religious people feel more certain about the correctness of something (the "what would Jesus do?" thing). I don't understand exactly what they mean when they say "In contrast, moral concerns make non-religious people feel less certain." What would an example of that be?
That was my question, too. The only thing I could think of was it's a reference to the stupid idea that atheists have no moral compass.
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Unread 07-28-2017, 01:02 PM   #3316
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I've got a question for you. I understand how moral correctness would help religious people feel more certain about the correctness of something (the "what would Jesus do?" thing). I don't understand exactly what they mean when they say "In contrast, moral concerns make non-religious people feel less certain." What would an example of that be?
It is absolutely not true that 'moral concerns make non-religious people feel less certain'. This is a lie perpetrated by Christians who want to feel morally superior to the rest of us and who want to scare other Christians into not trusting us. Non-religious people know right from wrong, have a moral compass and don't break the law any more than Christians do. I have always wondered why most of the people in prison are self-professed Christians if it were true.
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Unread 07-28-2017, 01:31 PM   #3317
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That explains why it made absolutely no sense to me. lol
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Unread 07-28-2017, 01:45 PM   #3318
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I've got a question for you. I understand how moral correctness would help religious people feel more certain about the correctness of something (the "what would Jesus do?" thing). I don't understand exactly what they mean when they say "In contrast, moral concerns make non-religious people feel less certain." What would an example of that be?
I dunno, it all sounded like nonsense to me! And yes, Tigerlily, it was full of sweeping generalisations but I suppose that's an inevitable result of research - it looks for trends.


I suppose one of the things that muddies any thinking about a moral compass is the definition of morality, which changes depending on your beliefs. Eg I think it's immoral to force your beliefs on somebody else and you should let people make up their own minds. Meanwhile, certain Christians (and other faiths) think it's their moral duty to 'spread the word'.


Some religions think it's immoral to be gay - I think it's just the way you are and that it's immoral not to accept people, however they are.


Anyway it's late and I have a very early start tomorrow so will leave you to it!
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Unread 07-28-2017, 11:19 PM   #3319
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Yeah they used militant atheists in one description and dogmatic atheists in another.

What about normal run-of-the-mill atheists who are simply non-believers??

I think I've always been a more analytic thinker, always liked math, too. But I was raised in a Catholic home, surrounded by Catholics. Literally everyone I knew was Catholic. God was assumed.

Fortunately for my critically thinking mind, I was apparently a liberal Irish Catholic. We learned science and evolution alongside God. I guess today it might be called intelligent design. But I clearly remember the second grade nun telling us that the "seven days" of Genesis weren't 24 hour days as we know days, that "we didn't know what a day was to God" and that it might have been a million years.

I realize now how liberal that was for that late 50s.

So it wasn't until I was around 50 and discovered that there actually were real people who believed the earth was only 6,000-ish years old. I was incredulous. And I think that got me thinking about religion and how that could be.

By the time I was 55, I knew I was an atheist. Nothing else changed in my life.
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