In the Forums

Register

Today's Posts

Search


Get the Weekly
Inkling
newsletter





Previous Issues

Get Social

Like Splitcoaststampers on Facebook Follow Splitcoaststampers on Twitter Watch Splitcoaststampers Videos on YouTube

Sponsored Ads


 
Splitcoaststampers.com - the world's #1 papercrafting community
You're currently viewing Splitcoaststampers as a GUEST. We pride ourselves on being great hosts, but guests have limited access to some of our incredible artwork, our lively forums and other super cool features of the site! You can join our incredible papercrafting community at NO COST. So what are you waiting for?

Join the party at Splitcoaststampers today!

Like Tree138Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-24-2013, 06:45 AM   #2601
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

Hi Michelle! Welcome! I like this current pope better than the other ones. You have a great day too!
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 12:41 PM   #2602
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,904
Default

I have been thinking about the current pope and while I agree that he is certainly more forward-thinking, and people-minded than most of his predecessors, unless he can make some fundamental changes to the catholic church, then the church will continue to adversely affect the lives of millions by keeping them ignorant. I still can't believe that the previous pope claimed that condoms were not the answer to Africa's fight against AIDS and could make the problem worse. This pope has a lot of damage control to do, and just being humble isn't enough.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #2603
Watercolor Wizard
 
buggainok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkes View Post
I have been thinking about the current pope and while I agree that he is certainly more forward-thinking, and people-minded than most of his predecessors, unless he can make some fundamental changes to the catholic church, then the church will continue to adversely affect the lives of millions by keeping them ignorant. I still can't believe that the previous pope claimed that condoms were not the answer to Africa's fight against AIDS and could make the problem worse. This pope has a lot of damage control to do, and just being humble isn't enough.
Stephanie
My daughter, who became devoutly Catholic when she married a Catholic 14 years ago, tells me that she likes this Pope very much, but insists that the things he said are not really new, and have been expressed in different ways by previous Popes. She says his words do not go against Catholic doctrine in general. And, there you have it. If the doctrine stays the same, it doesn't matter what is said if nothing really changes.

PS In the interest of family harmony, and because I love my daughter dearly, we mostly avoid the whole subject of religion. Oh, and also politics. I bite my tongue a lot.
__________________
Bugga in OK

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
buggainok is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini and ceramicat1 like this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 12:05 PM   #2604
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Bugga, based on your location, I'm surprised if you have any tongue left! Isn't it all chewed off by now????

But yes she is right. Still, it's nice to see his words of compassion. If the people who are full of hate and trying to minimize people like gays, and the pope is saying that's not right, then that's at least a change in attitude. I just hope people listen. Some of those overwhelmingly Catholic countries are very poor and very prejudiced. I mostly blame lack of education and awareness. But strict religions have also fostered these attitudes.

So yeah, if the new Pope can change people's attitudes, that's better than the old pope!

I don't plan to convert back to Catholicism, I just appreciate the nicer words.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini and ceramicat1 like this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 12:51 PM   #2605
Watercolor Wizard
 
buggainok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Bugga, based on your location, I'm surprised if you have any tongue left! Isn't it all chewed off by now????

But yes she is right. Still, it's nice to see his words of compassion. If the people who are full of hate and trying to minimize people like gays, and the pope is saying that's not right, then that's at least a change in attitude. I just hope people listen. Some of those overwhelmingly Catholic countries are very poor and very prejudiced. I mostly blame lack of education and awareness. But strict religions have also fostered these attitudes.

So yeah, if the new Pope can change people's attitudes, that's better than the old pope!

I don't plan to convert back to Catholicism, I just appreciate the nicer words.
You are so right, Kathy. I am bloody, but unbowed! And I agree that I like the attitude of this Pope. He does seem like a very compassionate, kind man.
__________________
Bugga in OK

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
buggainok is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #2606
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Default

But atheists are still going to hell Lol!
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 03:08 PM   #2607
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

What is in the water in Kansas???
Anti-evolution group sues to block Kansas school science standards - KansasCity.com
Christian groups sue to stop Kansas schools from adopting science standards | The Raw Story
Quote:
TOPEKA, Kan. — An anti-evolution group filed a federal lawsuit Thursday to block Kansas from using new, multistate science standards in its public schools, arguing the guidelines promote atheism and violate students' and parents' religious freedom.
Some of the statements in quotes by actual adults just leave me with my mouth hanging open.
Quote:
The suit alleges that the new standards will “promote religious beliefs that are inconsistent with the theistic religious beliefs of plaintiffs, thereby depriving them of the right to be free from government that favors one religious view over another.”
Quote:
CORE said that the science standards “will have the effect of causing Kansas public schools to establish and endorse a non-theistic religious worldview,” which the group said is a violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.
Seriously? Those are some pretty powerful science standards.
Quote:
Brad Dachus of Pacific Justice complained that is a violation of a child’s rights to teach them that Creationism isn’t the truth.
Quote:
“(I)t’s an egregious violation of the rights of Americans to subject students — as young as five — to an authoritative figure such as a teacher who essentially tells them that their faith is wrong,” he said.
Quote:
The group maintained that questions like “Where do we come from?” can only be answered honestly by religious dogma.

How strong is their religion if it can't stand side by side with scientific facts? Do they think all scientists are atheists??

__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #2608
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

In regards to the Pope, I'm not expecting much from him because I know he is a religious leader, and as such will never meet my (an atheist's) standards for atheistic beliefs and attitudes, BUT I still like him better bearing all that in mind, because FOR a religious leader, I like him better than most. I like that he's humble and that he connects so much better to the poor. I also love that he likes doing things for himself, and I LOVE his frugality. I would never expect a religious person, much less a religious leader to say atheists are going to heaven, or go against doctrine. Actually when I say that I like him better than the other popes, I mean I like him better than the one he replaced. I know absolutely nothing about all previous popes.

Edited to add: I like this pope better than the few pastors and Sunday school teachers I've known too. Not just better than the pope he replaced.
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini and ceramicat1 like this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 06:55 PM   #2609
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,904
Default

Unless the new pope can substantially influence the catholic church on matters like AIDS control, birth control, gay rights and women's choice for abortion then his humbleness and frugality, for all that they are admirable traits, will not have made any difference. Which will be a shame. If athiests can go to heaven then some changes here on earth should be possible.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 06:38 AM   #2610
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Default National Standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
What is in the water in Kansas???
Anti-evolution group sues to block Kansas school science standards - KansasCity.com
Christian groups sue to stop Kansas schools from adopting science standards | The Raw Story
Some of the statements in quotes by actual adults just leave me with my mouth hanging open.
Seriously? Those are some pretty powerful science standards.

How strong is their religion if it can't stand side by side with scientific facts? Do they think all scientists are atheists??

I think school standards should have one standard nation wide. Kids in some states should be allowed to be dumber than others? I don't think states rights or local control in these matters is anything but a way for conservatives to deprive some segment of society of their civil rights ie. freedom from a religiously based government.
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini and Melissa Hannant like this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2013, 11:46 AM   #2611
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

It also worries me when people home school to keep their children from "being exposed" to people who are different.

I understand we all have that right, and I wouldn't want it taken away, but it's so wrong to me and so sad to not want to embrace all of humanity, all the colors and sizes and shapes.

But some choose a vanilla life. No lumps, no bumps. No interest. Bleah.

Gotta have a little tapioca once in awhile. (That's my life's motto.)
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
nickelini likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #2612
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Ahhh the old pope (emeritus) sent a letter:
Pope Benedict breaks seven-month silence to deny covering up abuse by paedophile priests, and to denounce Richard Dawkins' work as 'science fiction' - Europe - World - The Independent

Yeah Dawkins writes sci fi. Uh huh.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2013, 08:58 PM   #2613
Mad Swapper
 
Melissa Hannant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 1,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily55 View Post
But atheists are still going to hell Lol!

And that's where the best after party is going to be!!!
__________________
Melissa
Melissa Hannant is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
ceramicat1 and tigerlily55 like this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 05:14 AM   #2614
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Don't ya love it? Still trying to cover his butt. Guess he hopes he can be fast tracked to sainthood like JPII. I thought he was dying. Please Flying Spaghetti Monster let him do it.
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 08:09 AM   #2615
Watercolor Wizard
 
buggainok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,588
Default Oprah expresses anti-atheist bias

I was disappointed to see this article in Psychology Today where Oprah's remarks showed a surprising bias about atheists:

Why Oprah's Anti-Atheist Bias Hurts So Much | Psychology Today
__________________
Bugga in OK

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
buggainok is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 08:37 AM   #2616
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggainok View Post
I was disappointed to see this article in Psychology Today where Oprah's remarks showed a surprising bias about atheists:

Why Oprah's Anti-Atheist Bias Hurts So Much | Psychology Today
She almost forces Diana Nyad to acknowledge some form of spirituality. I don't think her questions are surprising. Oprah is deeply invested in "spirituality" with her giving an uncritical platform to The Solution book, psychics, etc. I don't think it hurts so much. How big an audience does her Sunday show have? I wouldn't have even known about it if I hadn't read an atheist blog this morning.
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #2617
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Wow.

Well I have to say, that does seem to be the big stumbling block for people who've never considered atheism.

So - if you raise a child without religion and never mention god, what will they be like at around age 7? A cold robot? What if you took them all over the country, to the grand canyon and other "awe"some places? Would they turn away, unaffected?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW that they are "supposed" to be thanking some imaginary being for making it. They just see the beauty and feel it in the pit of their stomach or wherever that feeling comes from.

Oprah is obviously an idiot. Yes she needs an education. She's clueless. I'm shocked. Does she know what the word means? It's a very simple word. It shouldn't imply anything other than, "I believe in one less god than you do."
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 11:22 AM   #2618
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,904
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggainok View Post
I was disappointed to see this article in Psychology Today where Oprah's remarks showed a surprising bias about atheists:

Why Oprah's Anti-Atheist Bias Hurts So Much | Psychology Today
I am not surprised that Oprah feels this way. She has always struck me as a bit of an spriritual air head. What is is disappointing is that her platform reaches so many people.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 12:11 PM   #2619
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Spiritual air head, I like that. I know a few of those ...

I never watched Oprah, I just never watched any daytime TV. I like Ellen, I never watch her show but when I saw her on late night shows, I like her. Or internet clips! Same for Oprah. So I didn't know she was into all that, really. All I know is people realized how hugely she affected book sales.....
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #2620
Watercolor Wizard
 
buggainok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Wow.

Well I have to say, that does seem to be the big stumbling block for people who've never considered atheism.

So - if you raise a child without religion and never mention god, what will they be like at around age 7? A cold robot? What if you took them all over the country, to the grand canyon and other "awe"some places? Would they turn away, unaffected?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW that they are "supposed" to be thanking some imaginary being for making it. They just see the beauty and feel it in the pit of their stomach or wherever that feeling comes from.

Oprah is obviously an idiot. Yes she needs an education. She's clueless. I'm shocked. Does she know what the word means? It's a very simple word. It shouldn't imply anything other than, "I believe in one less god than you do."
I found the link to Psychology Today on FB in an atheist thread. This comment was posted by a guy named Dan Wulfing, who evidently works on the show. Doesn't change what she said, but gives some perspective from someone who knows Oprah:

Dan Wulfing: "I was actually in the control room during the taping when she said this. I've also been there when she's had discussions with other guests about atheism. I don't think she said what she said out of malice. I literally heard her first hand and there was nothing about her tone that was condescending. It was more off the cuff and exploratory. Trust me, she's an open minded person, just a little old school. I think what this is, is a classic case of culture clash.

Most people are ignorant of what atheists "believe". I had one guy tell me to "have fun reading the satanic bible" when he found out that I was an atheist. Most of our spokesmen are often bombastic and callous (not that I can blame them), and I think that colors a lot of peoples opinions.

Regardless, time is on our side. The percentage of Americans who say they have no religion is up to 18% and climbing fast, and I'd wager that there are quite a few closet atheists out there, waiting for it to become socially acceptable. A lot of the old stigmas and prejudices are falling away, and soon enough, we'll have shed the last vestiges of our intellectual infancy that have hobbled us as a race for thousands of years. Have faith."
__________________
Bugga in OK

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
buggainok is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 01:51 PM   #2621
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

I sure hope so. I can't say it hasn't occurred to me that there could still be religious wars.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #2622
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

Well, Dan Wulfing sounds pretty optimistic about the future! I think the majority of people want or need to believe in something, so there will always be religion. The best I would hope for is that in the future, believers will not be so um... rigid, I guess.
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 10:46 AM   #2623
Stazon Splitcoast
 
MadgeRPh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Just Relaxxin!
Posts: 11,289
Default

I hope Dan Wufling is right.

I was a closet Atheist until recently. I'm out of the closet and I am much more content. I have even learned to ignore "the look" when I tell people I'm an Atheist.

The most common response is asking how can I have no spirituaity. I tell them I am quite spiritual I simply do not believe in a supreme being.
__________________
There is nothing so simple that I can't complicate it.
MadgeRPh is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
ceramicat1 likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 10:55 AM   #2624
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

I was just talking about spirituality this morning with my brother (who is also an atheist). I said I didn't know what spirituality is, probably because I don't have any. He said he didn't have any either. I mean, I never meditate, or do yoga, or anything spiritual - not exactly sure what the word even means. I mean, not the dictionary definition - just... what it feels like. Dunno if I'm getting my confusion across. My question to every normal human (not just believers) is... how CAN you have spirituality?
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 11:14 AM   #2625
Watercolor Wizard
 
buggainok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 8,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
I was just talking about spirituality this morning with my brother (who is also an atheist). I said I didn't know what spirituality is, probably because I don't have any. He said he didn't have any either. I mean, I never meditate, or do yoga, or anything spiritual - not exactly sure what the word even means. I mean, not the dictionary definition - just... what it feels like. Dunno if I'm getting my confusion across. My question to every normal human (not just believers) is... how CAN you have spirituality?
Sophie, I think "spirituality" has become one of those terms that seems to mean whatever the user of the term wants it to mean. I found this article which is interesting and addresses your question:

Kate Fridkis: Defining Spirituality: What Does It Mean?
__________________
Bugga in OK

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
buggainok is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 11:14 AM   #2626
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,904
Default

I struggle with the term spiritual too because the word is so loaded with religious meaning. One definition I have heard though, that I like, is "to be able to appreciate beauty", and by that I don't mean to then attribute the beauty to god.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Stampin Wrose likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #2627
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggainok View Post
Sophie, I think "spirituality" has become one of those terms that seems to mean whatever the user of the term wants it to mean. I found this article which is interesting and addresses your question:

Kate Fridkis: Defining Spirituality: What Does It Mean?
I like that article! (Okay so I hear "Scotty" saying "I like this ship!" in the new Star Trek in 2010, in the same voice.)


I think it clarifies it well. That thing about feeling moved on top of a mountain - religious people seem to think that doesn't happen to atheists. Which kind of makes me laugh. I didn't become a robot when I realized I was an atheist. So all I do is correct people, as nicely as possible, and not worry about it.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #2628
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

Well, after reading the article, I'm convinced that I don't have spirituality. When I feel moved, it is a feeling that I can define. I have the impression that spirituality is more than being moved, and more than appreciating beauty. I know what it is to be moved, and to appreciate beauty...
But... if that IS all spirituality is... then... conceivably, lust, which is a form of me appreciating certain forms of human beauty would be covered under this realm of spirituality? That seems a little ...unseemly!
I have the impression that spirituality is deeper than anything I am capable of. If it is a certain time of month, I can be moved by a silly commercial, which seems rather shallow to me.

Weird, 'cause I know what love is, and what yearnings are - things the author also said are hard to define.

When I feel moved by grandeur and awesome beauty, I don't call that feeling nothing at all. I call that "feeling moved by grandeur and awesome beauty". I don't call that spirituality. But perhaps I should?
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #2629
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

That's interesting, Sophie. I didn't think the article was that specific. In fact, I think "feeling moved" is all it is. Some people can feel "more moved" perhaps with some of the practices like meditation, etc. But how many everyday Christian Americans do that?

For me, that "being moved" feeling is all it is. I think some people want to get into that more, maybe some use drugs, some meditate, but I don't think it necessarily means more than that.

So yes, I think you could call "feeling moved by grandeur and awesome beauty" a spiritual feeling.

I don't think necessarily every "feeling moved" is spiritual, lol, like those monthly feelings, that's just hormones. I cry at the drop of a hat, and that's not it either. But yeah if I went to the Grand Canyon, I imagine I would feel moved.

The big difference with us is that we can separate that feeling from a supreme being; some people cannot. They find it hard to believe we can.

Just keep repeating: I am not a robot.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #2630
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadgeRPh View Post
I hope Dan Wufling is right.

I was a closet Atheist until recently. I'm out of the closet and I am much more content. I have even learned to ignore "the look" when I tell people I'm an Atheist.

The most common response is asking how can I have no spirituaity. I tell them I am quite spiritual I simply do not believe in a supreme being.
I agree about feeling more content.


It's easier to not have to pretend. I was quiet for awhile, pretty much til after my dad died in 2007. Of course it was easy because I was 2800 miles away from family. Dad never questioned anything. Mom is more open and I didn't worry about it offending her.


Now I don't worry about offending anyone with it, I'm not obnoxious or strident about it, it just is what it is.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 04:03 PM   #2631
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 17,790
Default

Well, okay, I remain unconvinced. Perhaps it is the degree to which one is moved that distinguishes between the more shallow "moved" feelings from the greater (but still shallow for me) "moved" feelings, and after a threshold, that feeling becomes "spirituality"? Perhaps I have been "spiritual" once or twice in my life.

If I am caught off guard by someone's assumption that I'm a Christian, I am strident about speaking up that I'm not. I don't automatically say that I'm an atheist though.
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 04:17 PM   #2632
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

LOL That's okay. I don't think the word is important. If something moves you, enjoy it.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2013, 04:17 PM   #2633
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,904
Default

If anyone asks me if I am spiritual I get them to define it then I answer the question. Otherwise there is too much room for confusion.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2013, 04:18 PM   #2634
Embossing Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 63
Default I liked this, so thought I would share with the group.

A humanist thanksgiving proclamation
(It would work as an Atheist Thanksgiving Proclamation for me!)

by Robert Green Ingersoll

When I became convinced that the universe is natural — that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom.

The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf or a slave. There was for me no master in all the world — not even infinite space.

I was free:

Free to think, to express my thoughts

Free to live my own ideal

Free to live for myself and those I loved

Free to use all my faculties, all my senses

Free to spread imagination’s wings

Free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope

Free to judge and determine for myself

Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the “inspired” books that savages have produced, and all the barbarous legends of the past

Free from popes and priests

Free from all the “called” and “set apart”

Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies

Free from the winged monsters of the night

Free from devils, ghosts and gods

For the first time I was free. There were no prohibited places in all the realms of thought — no air, no space, where fancy could not spread her painted wings; no claims for my limbs; no lashes for my back; no fires for my flesh; no following another’s steps; no need to bow, or cringe, or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free. I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously, faced all worlds.

And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love:



To all the heroes, the thinkers, who gave their lives for the liberty of hand and brain
For the freedom of labor and thought

To those who fell on the fierce fields of war

To those who died in dungeons bound with chains

To those who proudly mounted scaffold’s stairs

To those by fire consumed

To all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons and daughters of men and women

And then I vowed to grasp the torch that they have held, and hold it high, that light may conquer darkness still.
lilactime is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 06:22 AM   #2635
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilactime View Post
A humanist thanksgiving proclamation
(It would work as an Atheist Thanksgiving Proclamation for me!)

by Robert Green Ingersoll

When I became convinced that the universe is natural — that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom.


The walls of my prison crumbled and fell, the dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf or a slave. There was for me no master in all the world — not even infinite space. ...



...To all the wise, the good, the brave of every land, whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons and daughters of men and women

And then I vowed to grasp the torch that they have held, and hold it high, that light may conquer darkness still.
Wow! So glad you posted this! I was thrilled with just the beginning and ending paragraphs but the whole thing is wonderful. I've been meaning to read some Ingersoll. This motivates me to actually go and do it.
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
DawnDoings likes this post.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 12:01 PM   #2636
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Dang, my library has no Ingersoll.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #2637
Pearl-ExPert
 
tigerlily55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,555
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Dang, my library has no Ingersoll.
Wrose, if you go to Project Gutenburg All Books (sorted by popularity) - Project Gutenberg You can download his stuff or read online.
__________________
Martha
Most people would rather die than think. Most people do... Bertrand Russell
tigerlily55 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 07:47 PM   #2638
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 98,645
Default

Thanks, Martha! I thought I'd look around online later, so you have saved me some work!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 03:32 AM   #2639
Embossing Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 63
Default

So glad you enjoyed this as I hoped you would. Thanks for passing it on. I thought it was time we did a little celebrating.
Now to figure out how to make a first post for an item. from Lilactime the Canadian
lilactime is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 03:22 AM   #2640
Stazon Splitcoast
 
Illinois Marge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,150
Default

What do you think of this -- atheist "churches"?

Atheist 'mega-churches' take root across US, world
__________________
My Blog Cackling Crafter
Illinois Marge is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off