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Old 04-24-2013, 04:52 PM   #2401
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Was there a winner established between Dan Barker and Brian Young? Was there a moderator to keep things on track?!
Stephanie
There was a moderator to keep time. Each side had a 20min opening statement, 10min rebuttal, then about 15 min where they were allowed to ask each other questions. Then questions from the audience and then 5 min for each to sum up. There was no polling to decide who won.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #2402
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So I assume that creationists refuse to benefit from science? No medicine, no technology, etc. etc. I cannot even begin to understand the mindset.
We might think that's a good point to raise except they'd probably say it's ok to use science as long as you believe god did it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:15 PM   #2403
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Have any of you heard of something called The Weekly Word? I just got an e-mail with a link to this. I deleted it, and then googled it. It's a xtian newsletter kind of thing (I didn't read it). I wonder where they got my email address.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:26 PM   #2404
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Have any of you heard of something called The Weekly Word? I just got an e-mail with a link to this. I deleted it, and then googled it. It's a xtian newsletter kind of thing (I didn't read it). I wonder where they got my email address.
Never heard of it but it's probably one of hundreds of newsletters out there. Sort of on the same order as Xtian ads showing up on this thread Lol!
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:57 PM   #2405
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Ad Block. No ads of any kind on SCS!

I think it must take a tremendous amount of rationalization to think that way. I cannot conceive of it.

Any idea how many Christians actually believe all this stuff? It seems so extreme to me!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:30 PM   #2406
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Ad Block. No ads of any kind on SCS!

I think it must take a tremendous amount of rationalization to think that way. I cannot conceive of it.

Any idea how many Christians actually believe all this stuff? It seems so extreme to me!
What ad block do you use? I'm tired of the ads!

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Old 04-24-2013, 07:35 PM   #2407
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What ad block do you use? I'm tired of the ads!

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It's called AdBlock, I think my son put it on here for me, I have no idea where he got it. I thought it was free? Not sure. But it's been great.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:21 AM   #2408
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What ad block do you use? I'm tired of the ads!

Christi
I think you have to be using Mozilla Firefox as your browser. Is that what you have Wrose? Adblocker is one of the add-ons you can use. I have it too. I was just remembering from when I didn't have it. Also, Firefox is a non-profit.
It is wonderful.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:40 AM   #2409
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Who says there's no zebra horses? A well respected Canadian environmentalist and scientist, Dr. David Suzuki, recently showed a documentary about the Coywolf. This animal is the result of unions between wolves and coyotes. This was thought impossible, but in Algonquin Park in Ontario, the wolf population was so diminished by hunters that nature and the need to survive took over. Here is the video CBC -The Nature of Things with David Suzuki - - Meet the Coywolf
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:50 AM   #2410
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Default Comments on latest Weekly tutorial

It seems one of our group (Stephanie aka Parkes) has been "witnessing" against the religious sentiments used in this weeks tutorial. I can't seem to link directly to it. Most of the the following comments are of the "if you don't like it don't look at it" variety. Am I right that this is you Stephanie?
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:57 AM   #2411
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Who says there's no zebra horses? A well respected Canadian environmentalist and scientist, Dr. David Suzuki, recently showed a documentary about the Coywolf. This animal is the result of unions between wolves and coyotes. This was thought impossible, but in Algonquin Park in Ontario, the wolf population was so diminished by hunters that nature and the need to survive took over. Here is the video CBC -The Nature of Things with David Suzuki - - Meet the Coywolf
This sounds so interesting but unfortunately the video is only accessible to Canadians.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #2412
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It seems one of our group (Stephanie aka Parkes) has been "witnessing" against the religious sentiments used in this weeks tutorial. I can't seem to link directly to it. Most of the the following comments are of the "if you don't like it don't look at it" variety. Am I right that this is you Stephanie?
I have been outed!! Yes it was me. I would never comment in such a way on religious cards in the galleries (other than to moan about them here) but I felt a demonstration card should be more neutral.

I didn't read more than the first few comments after mine as I was not interested in developing the argument, nor was I particularly interested in what other people thought of my comment. I just wanted to raise awareness that using religious sentiments on a demonstration card is not ideal. One of the comments was from Laura Lipe herself and she admitted she wouldn't have used those particular sentiments if she had thought about it as she is usually very aware of cultural and religious differences between people. So I got support from the demonstrater herself which is pretty good.
Stephanie (yes THAT one!)
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:31 PM   #2413
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I have been outed!! Yes it was me. I would never comment in such a way on religious cards in the galleries (other than to moan about them here) but I felt a demonstration card should be more neutral.

I didn't read more than the first few comments after mine as I was not interested in developing the argument, nor was I particularly interested in what other people thought of my comment. I just wanted to raise awareness that using religious sentiments on a demonstration card is not ideal. One of the comments was from Laura Lipe herself and she admitted she wouldn't have used those particular sentiments if she had thought about it as she is usually very aware of cultural and religious differences between people. So I got support from the demonstrater herself which is pretty good.
Stephanie (yes THAT one!)
I was so surprised to go to the tutorial and see someone commenting from the secular viewpoint. I wasn't paying attention to the names at first but then I saw the name stephani and the wheels started turning... Good for you!
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:34 PM   #2414
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I have been outed!! Yes it was me. I would never comment in such a way on religious cards in the galleries (other than to moan about them here) but I felt a demonstration card should be more neutral.

I didn't read more than the first few comments after mine as I was not interested in developing the argument, nor was I particularly interested in what other people thought of my comment. I just wanted to raise awareness that using religious sentiments on a demonstration card is not ideal. One of the comments was from Laura Lipe herself and she admitted she wouldn't have used those particular sentiments if she had thought about it as she is usually very aware of cultural and religious differences between people. So I got support from the demonstrator herself which is pretty good.
Stephanie (yes THAT one!)
I was so surprised to go to the tutorial and see someone commenting from the secular viewpoint. I wasn't paying attention to the names at first but then I saw the name Stephanie and the wheels started turning... Good for you!
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:02 AM   #2415
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I think you have to be using Mozilla Firefox as your browser. Is that what you have Wrose? Adblocker is one of the add-ons you can use. I have it too. I was just remembering from when I didn't have it. Also, Firefox is a non-profit.
It is wonderful.
Actually no, I'm using Chrome these days.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:03 AM   #2416
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I think it's great that Steph raised some awareness. To me, it's that simple.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:20 AM   #2417
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This sounds so interesting but unfortunately the video is only accessible to Canadians.

Thanks, yes the video is very interesting and well done.
I will post a small quote and a sites that might be available. Barring that, there is a little on Wikipedia.
" Also called the eastern coyote, the coywolf shares traits of both coyotes and wolves and has been recognized as a separate species only in the last century. It’s an example of Darwinism at work."
http://www.theprovince.com/entertain...070/story.html and
Go Darwin!
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:24 PM   #2418
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Who says there's no zebra horses? A well respected Canadian environmentalist and scientist, Dr. David Suzuki, recently showed a documentary about the Coywolf. This animal is the result of unions between wolves and coyotes. This was thought impossible, but in Algonquin Park in Ontario, the wolf population was so diminished by hunters that nature and the need to survive took over. Here is the video CBC -The Nature of Things with David Suzuki - - Meet the Coywolf
But zebras and horses CAN mate--I've seen them before. Like mules, they can't breed themselves. The reason you don't see more of them is because other than being a novelty, there is no use for them (unlike mules). Likewise, there are leopard-lion crosses, and Canadian scientists have also found that polar and grizzly bears are now mating (because of climate change, their territories are now overlapping)
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #2419
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But zebras and horses CAN mate--I've seen them before. Like mules, they can't breed themselves. The reason you don't see more of them is because other than being a novelty, there is no use for them (unlike mules). Likewise, there are leopard-lion crosses, and Canadian scientists have also found that polar and grizzly bears are now mating (because of climate change, their territories are now overlapping)
Oh, right! But I guess my question would be is there any chance that these new bear hybrids could ever become a separate species

I would love it if you scientifically literate folks could explain speciation to counter the "like comes from like" argument. I sort of know, I think I'm using the correct term, but would like to hear from someone who knows more than me.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:50 PM   #2420
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Oh, right! But I guess my question would be is there any chance that these new bear hybrids could ever become a separate species

I would love it if you scientifically literate folks could explain speciation to counter the "like comes from like" argument. I sort of know, I think I'm using the correct term, but would like to hear from someone who knows more than me.
I am not familiar with the 'like comes from like' argument but I'll have a go with explaining speciation.
If a population of animals of the same species becomes divided, for example a river changes its course and you end up with some animals on each side of the river, then if those two groups of animals are kept apart long enough, then they will continue to evolve but in different directions because they will be facing different environmental pressures. This is assuming that the environment on each side of the river is different. One group of animals may be restricted to the slopes of a mountain and the other group is in marshland.
IF the two groups are kept apart long enough, and in environments that are different enough, THEN the two groups end up evolving to the point that they won't interbreed naturally and at that point we say they are different species.
In a way, the word 'species' is an artificial construct, a way of defining groups of organisms (animals, plants, bacteria etc) that often can't be tested. Many thousands of different species of fossils have been identified by the differences in their shape and size, but of course we can't set up mating experiments with them!
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:28 PM   #2421
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Oh, right! But I guess my question would be is there any chance that these new bear hybrids could ever become a separate species

I would love it if you scientifically literate folks could explain speciation to counter the "like comes from like" argument. I sort of know, I think I'm using the correct term, but would like to hear from someone who knows more than me.
Stephanie did a good job explaining speciation - here's a compilation of answers from a group of people who spent a long time gathering information about evolution and formulating responses to creationist "arguments" :http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA520.html

The speciation answer on that page basically says the same thing as Stephanie did


Hope that helps - I really enjoy browsing through the site
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:41 AM   #2422
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Also, just because two species can mate (as in the instances mentioned above) doesn't mean they will. Physical barriers (mountains, water, etc.) can be a deterrent. If that barrier is removed... Also, a lot of this stuff comes down to genetics even if it is not visually apparent. Animals are attracted to one another by things like pheromones which may be chemically different among even closely related species so they "just aren't that into each other". If two species are very different then they may have sex parts that don't go together, the chromosome numbers don't match up or the sperm and egg don't have the right chemicals to interact. Sometimes very small genetic changes can result in very big differences that we can't actually see in an animals shape.

What Stephanie said about our designation is so correct. In the past, much of how organisms were categorized was based on morphology(shape). With the recent advances in molecular technology, things are being moved around and reorganized into more appropriate categories.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:46 AM   #2423
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What do you think of this?

http://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/i...ty-public-scho


Basically, a Christian group recently sued for the right to distribute religious materials at Florida high schools, costing the school $20K for the legal fees. So they did distribute materials, passively, by placing them on a table and letting students take them, supposedly not engaging students in dialogue.


The Freedom From Religion Foundation and a couple other secular groups protested that this was bringing religion in to the schools and gathered their own set of materials to distribute. The school would not allow several of the submitted materials because they would "disrupt the school day", but the passive distribution of materials is set for today.


I think it's kind of tit for tat, but I do disagree with the distribution of religious materials at school. I bet there will be parents complaining about the material their kids bring home today and I bet there were parents who complained about the Christian materials, too. I hope that this type of response brings a new level of pressure on the school to work on a legal way to prevent distribution of materials, but if not, I hope that students who read the secular materials learn something .
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:04 PM   #2424
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How about that, Dan Barker is going to be there too. Or was, today, right? Interesting.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:18 PM   #2425
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I imagine you've all heard about the collapse of that garment factory in Bangladesh. There are over 1,000 dead. Today, seventeen days later, they pulled a 19 year old female out, alive, in good shape.

On the news, they said (she said? somebody said?) that God saved her.

Seriously? Is that the same God that let over 1000 others perish???? What a guy.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:59 PM   #2426
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I imagine you've all heard about the collapse of that garment factory in Bangladesh. There are over 1,000 dead. Today, seventeen days later, they pulled a 19 year old female out, alive, in good shape.

On the news, they said (she said? somebody said?) that God saved her.

Seriously? Is that the same God that let over 1000 others perish???? What a guy.
Yeah, all power and no responsibility.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:48 PM   #2427
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I imagine you've all heard about the collapse of that garment factory in Bangladesh. There are over 1,000 dead. Today, seventeen days later, they pulled a 19 year old female out, alive, in good shape.

On the news, they said (she said? somebody said?) that God saved her.

Seriously? Is that the same God that let over 1000 others perish???? What a guy.
Well, obviously he did--she had been trapped in the prayer room the whole time. (snort)
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:57 PM   #2428
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Actually that turned out to not be true - she was near the prayer room but not in it. Saw that in an article someplace.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:58 PM   #2429
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Just thought I'd share this...

Hubby was watching news coverage of these devastating tornadoes in Oklahoma, and hollered for me when he heard something interesting. A newscaster was interviewing a young woman holding a small child. The newscaster said something like "I'll bet you're thanking God that you're both alive". The woman just gets this sort of surprised look on her face, but doesn't say anything. Newscaster says "You DO thank God you're alive, right?". The woman replies: "Ummm... I'm actually an atheist."

I cannot ever remember hearing something like that on TV. Shame on that newscaster, but kudos to this woman for being honest! (Sorry, can't remember exactly what the newscaster said after that, but he was clearly thrown off guard.) Honestly, I'm not sure which surprised me more... the question, or the answer. It was nice to see a polite exchange like this, though. Maybe it will help others to see things in a new way.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #2430
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This article is also surprising to see. Good for Ricky for speaking out as well as donating.

Who hears #PrayersForOklahoma? ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #2431
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This article is also surprising to see. Good for Ricky for speaking out as well as donating.

Who hears #PrayersForOklahoma? ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
Thanks for sharing that, Makalah. I love Ricky's comment “I feel like an idiot now … I only sent money.”
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:46 PM   #2432
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Originally Posted by BashfulStamper View Post
Just thought I'd share this...

Hubby was watching news coverage of these devastating tornadoes in Oklahoma, and hollered for me when he heard something interesting. A newscaster was interviewing a young woman holding a small child. The newscaster said something like "I'll bet you're thanking God that you're both alive". The woman just gets this sort of surprised look on her face, but doesn't say anything. Newscaster says "You DO thank God you're alive, right?". The woman replies: "Ummm... I'm actually an atheist."

I cannot ever remember hearing something like that on TV. Shame on that newscaster, but kudos to this woman for being honest! (Sorry, can't remember exactly what the newscaster said after that, but he was clearly thrown off guard.) Honestly, I'm not sure which surprised me more... the question, or the answer. It was nice to see a polite exchange like this, though. Maybe it will help others to see things in a new way.
Thank you for posting this. I am thrilled to think that athiests are finally speaking out in America! I read it out to my partner and he said that a newscaster would never ask a leading question like this in NZ. I bet that particular newscaster won't do it again either!
Stephanie
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:01 PM   #2433
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BashfulStamper View Post
Just thought I'd share this...

Hubby was watching news coverage of these devastating tornadoes in Oklahoma, and hollered for me when he heard something interesting. A newscaster was interviewing a young woman holding a small child. The newscaster said something like "I'll bet you're thanking God that you're both alive". The woman just gets this sort of surprised look on her face, but doesn't say anything. Newscaster says "You DO thank God you're alive, right?". The woman replies: "Ummm... I'm actually an atheist."

I cannot ever remember hearing something like that on TV. Shame on that newscaster, but kudos to this woman for being honest! (Sorry, can't remember exactly what the newscaster said after that, but he was clearly thrown off guard.) Honestly, I'm not sure which surprised me more... the question, or the answer. It was nice to see a polite exchange like this, though. Maybe it will help others to see things in a new way.
Wonderful!

Just think, she could have said something about how she doesn't think much of a god that would do that much damage and expect HER to be grateful to be alive.....
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:26 PM   #2434
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http://deadspin.com/wolf-blitzer-ask...than-509150402
Here's a link to the snippet. I love her reaction. She almost seems embarrassed for him and he ASKED TWICE!
Anyway fine for him asking (whatever) and kudos to her for letting it roll of her back and being honest.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #2435
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Sweet, V. Thanks. Yeah she was nice about it.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:06 PM   #2436
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Loved seeing an "out" atheist in OK. Bonus is Blitzer being embarrassed on national TV.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:52 PM   #2437
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Did anyone else read about the atheist state Representative in Arizona who gave a secular statement instead of a prayer?

An Atheist Member of the Arizona House of Representatives Delivered a Godless Invocation Today


I thought his statement was nicely worded. I was LOL about the gallery containing Secular Coalition of Arizona members and how the Pledge of Allegiance had a hollow spot where 'under God' is spoken.


No surprise there was controversy:
In Response to Rep. Juan Mendez?s Godless Invocation in Arizona, His Colleague Delivered a Second Christian Prayer Today


Quote:
He said if Mendez did not want to offer a prayer, he should have skipped his turn in what had traditionally been a rotation among members.
Quote:
And to make up for that lack, Smith insisted Wednesday on offering a prayer — actually the second for the day — “for repentance of yesterday,” asking asked colleagues to stand and “give our due respect to the creator of the universe.”
I like the point Hemant makes, about this just showing that some Christian legislators are unwilling to even acknowledge that they represent people of all beliefs and no belief...
But yea to Rep. Mendez for putting out a beautiful secular invocation in a state legislature!
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:55 PM   #2438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily55 View Post
Loved seeing an "out" atheist in OK. Bonus is Blitzer being embarrassed on national TV.
Agree - that was cool.

There's a fundraiser for that lady and her family: Actually? Tees for the Rebecca Vitsmun Recovery Fund | FreeOK
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:57 PM   #2439
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I did read about that legislator, Alyson. Good for him, and boo to the rest of them!
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:01 AM   #2440
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Did you also hear about the California Rep who hosted a luncheon for honors students in his district?

And started it off with an invocation, a Christian invocation, with Jesus Christ and everything. Never mind there was at least one atheist in the group, there were "noticeable Muslim students" in the group! What an idiot.


A California State Senator?s Luncheon to Honor Students Begins with Christian Prayer
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