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Thanks, Wrose. Sitting here thinking, it's almost as though I sort of wish I still believed. There is no comfort for me; no feeling of "seeing him again" and it just is so deep. DH says that when anyone dies that it makes you sit back and re-evaluate your life; think of your own mortality and legacy, and it's just part of the process. He is probably right. He usually is.
__________________
Ask yourself, "When I’m on my deathbed, will I be glad I was so serious about _______?" Let down your hair and stop being so darn important for a while. my gallery
Thanks, Wrose. Sitting here thinking, it's almost as though I sort of wish I still believed. There is no comfort for me; no feeling of "seeing him again" and it just is so deep. DH says that when anyone dies that it makes you sit back and re-evaluate your life; think of your own mortality and legacy, and it's just part of the process. He is probably right. He usually is.
I agree with Wrose and your DH. Death of someone close can't help but be an emotional time for all of us. The realisation that that person is no longer with us is really hard no matter what you believe.
Stephanie
__________________ To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce my gallery
I don't think this is news to anyone in this thread.
I read the article on Yahoo and couldn't help but check out the comments. A lot of what you would expect from both sides of the argument, but this one is my favorite....
It really fits exactly in our discussion of religious versus secular Christmas except instead of being a "how dare atheists celebrate Christmas", this one is "how day a lesbian celebrate a Christmas".
I meant to check this the other day. How ridiculous. I like the reference to the comment about nobody with a brain.....
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
I don't think this is news to anyone in this thread.
And this comment shows how people simply do NOT get it.
"And regarding persecution in USA, i honestly have never heard of any atheist statues, decorations, traditional pageants, parades or school functions being attacked in courts – only the atheists do that to Christians.
This whole article is intentionally misleading from the very title.
not news, just fear mongering directed toward atheists, who may already feel ‘left out’ of the holiday of Christmas and Hanukkah but NOT because they are forced out or persecuted in any way as this false article suggests, but simply because in their worldly wise minds, atheists have no room for the spirit of these holidays."
The only decorations THIS atheist (me) has are sports related, or other non-religious decor. Atheists in public schools should not be forced to participate in religious functions, pageants, or parades; so excuse us for protesting when someone does try to force that.
And, lastly, we are not complaining about feeling "left out" of the religious holidays, as a matter of fact, those of us in this thread have expressed how we choose to participate (or not). Our choice. The article isn't about atheists complaining about being left out. It's about atheists being discriminated against. Sheesh.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
I'm furious with people who call themselves Christian and say things like this (OK, I'd be furious with anyone who said things like this - the fact that they are saying this is the way their god is disgusts me) :
Are you happy now that the shooter grew up in a school without God? #thinkAboutit
— Eric Hovind (@erichovind) December 14, 2012
Where was God? I thought God cared about the little children? (...) God is not going to go where he is not wanted. We have spent 50 years telling God to get lost. (...) We've kicked God out of our public school system and I think God would say to us "Hey, I'll be glad to protect your children but you gotta invite me back into your world first - I'm not gonna go where I'm not wanted - I am a gentleman". (...)
Back when we had prayer, the Bible, and the 10 commandments in schools we did not need guns.
--- Bryan Fischer, American Family Association[/FONT]
Doesn't it just make you want to believe? In a god that lets little children die to make a point that people aren't worshipping him enough? Oh yeah, sure.
__________________ “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” --- Neil deGrasse Tyson
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,960
Ahh well, Alyson, the AFA? I would expect nothing else from someone in that group.
Believers like that are, in my humble opinion, a little bit nuts.
So what about the movie theater? The mall? I know they'd be happy if there was a prayer before every movie. Right?
So that kind of thinking is nuts. Don't let it ruin your day.
You would think that if the god they believed in is so powerful, he would have no need to be so petty. Surely he would only have killed the children that have atheist parents!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
Surely he would only have killed the children that have atheist parents!
HAHA!!
__________________
Ask yourself, "When I’m on my deathbed, will I be glad I was so serious about _______?" Let down your hair and stop being so darn important for a while. my gallery
Mike Huckabee:“We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools,” Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. “Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?”
“[W]e’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability — that we’re not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment,” Huckabee said. “If we don’t believe that, then we don’t fear that.”
He said those suffering from a crisis from faith should look to God in the community’s response to the violence. But he added that “Maybe we ought to let [God] in on the front end and we wouldn’t have to call him to show up when it’s all said and done at the back end.”
__________________ “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” --- Neil deGrasse Tyson
I understand what you're saying, Kathy. I do have blog feeds that give me this c*r*a*p and ignoring them is the better policy (ie., if they didn't come to my blog reader I would be less incensed because I'd only hear the top tier...).
As much as I can understand why faith appeals to some people at some times, this junk baffles my ~faith~ in humanity.
__________________ “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” --- Neil deGrasse Tyson
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlysonRR
Mike Huckabee:“We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools,” Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. “Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?”
“[W]e’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability — that we’re not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment,” Huckabee said. “If we don’t believe that, then we don’t fear that.”
He said those suffering from a crisis from faith should look to God in the community’s response to the violence. But he added that “Maybe we ought to let [God] in on the front end and we wouldn’t have to call him to show up when it’s all said and done at the back end.”
Yeah I saw that too. Crazy.
So he lumps eternity with accountability. Um, I think you can teach responsibility and accountability without teaching God.
If the only reason he behaves himself is fear of the judgement of God, then I want to steer clear of this crazy man.
And really, the idea that God sits up there waiting to be called is just absolutely insane. I would not be surprised to hear that Huckabee still believes in Santa Claus.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
I thought this woman's post made excellent points:
Quote:
To those of us who believe in no God at all, you’re saying that your God is an asshole. You’re telling us that making everyone worship Him is more important to God than saving children’s lives.
To those who believe in different gods, or different ideas of the same God, you’re telling them that they are part of the problem because they want their children to go to school in a non-sectarian environment. You are asking them to think there would be less violence in the world if they allowed your religious traditions to be honored in the public sphere, at taxpayer expense, above their own.
It really fits exactly in our discussion of religious versus secular Christmas except instead of being a "how dare atheists celebrate Christmas", this one is "how day a lesbian celebrate a Christmas".
Don't the million moms have more important things to worry about?
__________________ There is nothing so simple that I can't complicate it.
Don't the million moms have more important things to worry about?
I wonder if Million Moms will join the Catholic church in protecting families and children by supporting and financing initiatives for improved gun regulation? {typed with heavy use of sarcasm}
__________________
Rachel Schott
As my best friend says, "Stamping....it's cheaper than therapy" to which I add, "Not by much".
My mom was the proud recipient of my first handmade card. Cost $200.
When Huckabee first ran for President I agreed with him about quite a few things on his economic platform.
The more I've seen of him, the more I've seen him on the crazy end of the control-the-people spectrum.
I'm a big fan of Jon Stewart, and I think he (and Stephan Colbert) call a lot of this crap out . . . but for some reason Stewart keeps bringing Huckabee on his show. I think that like Westbro Baptist, it's time to stop giving these quacks air time. If I was still a Christian, I'd be even more furious at Huckabee.
__________________
~ Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers ~
(attributed to Socrates 470-399 BC)
Mike Huckabee:“We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools,” Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. “Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?”
“[W]e’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability — that we’re not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment,” Huckabee said. “If we don’t believe that, then we don’t fear that.”
He said those suffering from a crisis from faith should look to God in the community’s response to the violence. But he added that “Maybe we ought to let [God] in on the front end and we wouldn’t have to call him to show up when it’s all said and done at the back end.”
It is interesting that he would say this considering something similar happened not too long ago at an Amish school. I am quite certain that prayer and god was a a significant part of their curriculum. Did they not pray enough? Did they not pray in the correct way? Or wait, I know, the devil caused that one because they prayed too much. How incredibly insensitive and arrogant of him to imply that it is our fault not that of a singular, disturbed individual. I think it is nearly impossible for people like him to believe that no matter how much you pray, go to church, do good deeds, give money to the church or help others, bad things still happen. They can't blame god so they blame everyone/everything else. It makes me so sad and angry that I can barely think straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlysonRR
Mike Huckabee:“We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we have systematically removed God from our schools,” Huckabee said on Fox News, discussing the murder spree that took the lives of 20 children and 6 adults in Newtown, CT that morning. “Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage?”
“[W]e’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability — that we’re not just going to have be accountable to the police if they catch us, but one day we stand before, you know, a holy God in judgment,” Huckabee said. “If we don’t believe that, then we don’t fear that.”
He said those suffering from a crisis from faith should look to God in the community’s response to the violence. But he added that “Maybe we ought to let [God] in on the front end and we wouldn’t have to call him to show up when it’s all said and done at the back end.”
It is interesting that he would say this considering something similar happened not too long ago at an Amish school. I am quite certain that prayer and god was a a significant part of their curriculum. Did they not pray enough? Did they not pray in the correct way? Or wait, I know, the devil caused that one because they prayed too much. How incredibly insensitive and arrogant of him to imply that it is our fault not that of a singular, disturbed individual. I think it is nearly impossible for people like him to believe that no matter how much you pray, go to church, do good deeds, give money to the church or help others, bad things still happen. They can't blame god so they blame everyone/everything else. It makes me so sad and angry that I can barely think straight.
Maybe he would say that the Amish aren't "real" Christians. That's what most Christians say about each other, isn't it?
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Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
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It is interesting that he would say this considering something similar happened not too long ago at an Amish school. I am quite certain that prayer and god was a a significant part of their curriculum. Did they not pray enough? Did they not pray in the correct way? Or wait, I know, the devil caused that one because they prayed too much. How incredibly insensitive and arrogant of him to imply that it is our fault not that of a singular, disturbed individual. I think it is nearly impossible for people like him to believe that no matter how much you pray, go to church, do good deeds, give money to the church or help others, bad things still happen. They can't blame god so they blame everyone/everything else. It makes me so sad and angry that I can barely think straight.
I had the exact same thought when I heard about Huckabee's comments. What about the Amish children that were massacred?
__________________ There is nothing so simple that I can't complicate it.
I am amazed how callous the statements from Huckabee and others are. They have to know the parents of the children at Sandy Hook will hear what they have said, along with those from others shootings. It just seems heartless.
__________________
Denise
"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron.”
― Spider Robinson
In this small town for which I live there are 2300 people. Never understood why there are over 50 Baptist churches in this county. I'm sure all the bible thumpers here went nuts when a Catholic church moved in. I feel religion is a form of brainwashing. Just look at Warren Jeffs flds cult leader. I was raised Catholic, even went to a Catholic school. Even people at DH's church say "she's ruined", meaning my Catholic backround. By the way, I left the church at age 12.
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by STYXROCKSME
In this small town for which I live there are 2300 people. Never understood why there are over 50 Baptist churches in this county. I'm sure all the bible thumpers here went nuts when a Catholic church moved in. I feel religion is a form of brainwashing. Just look at Warren Jeffs flds cult leader. I was raised Catholic, even went to a Catholic school. Even people at DH's church say "she's ruined", meaning my Catholic backround. By the way, I left the church at age 12.
Ha ha, ruined. Funny.
I went to Catholic grade school (8 years), Catholic HS (4 years) and a Jesuit University. Brainwashed, indeed!!!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
The blogger post made me laugh..."Atheists have been vandalizing my belifs for years so it's about time the shoe is on the other foot" Because me not BELIEVING the same as you is the same as someone destryoing a tangible object? You hafta love those Christians who commit crimes in the name of religion. Because that makes it ok, right? As long as the crime is against those who don't believe the same as you. Yep, god probably forgives THOSE sins.
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Ask yourself, "When I’m on my deathbed, will I be glad I was so serious about _______?" Let down your hair and stop being so darn important for a while. my gallery
I've seen those vandalized billboards, too. Very sad. One has to assume, based on how they are vandalized, that it's someone who disagrees with the message. So what? I disagree with tons of billboards I see - hasn't led me to vandalize one yet
I can't believe people defend this sort of thing. Free speech is when everyone gets to state their opinion, not just the people with whom one agrees...
__________________ “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” --- Neil deGrasse Tyson
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 94,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnDoings
I don't believe most Christians would approve of vandalism. I am hoping this is the act of a few misguided people.
I don't think "most" would either. But the fact that enough are willing to do it repeatedly to these billboards says a lot to me. And a lot of others just shrug. They aren't out there trying to round up the offenders. Would there be a similar reaction if there were billboards advertising a church and they got defaced? A shrug? I don't think so. It would lead the local news.
Of course, the Christian community has a habit of not including people like that in their count. "They are not real Christians." And thus they can continue to claim that good Christians don't do anything bad. Even murderers who self-identify as Christians are not included. It's a win-win stance for them.
A lot of Christians don't approve of sex outside marriage either. But look at the rates of infidelity in this country, remembering that most people in this country identify as Christians.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ~Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
A lot of Christians don't approve of sex outside marriage either. But look at the rates of infidelity in this country, remembering that most people in this country identify as Christians.
Good point! Also most of the people in prisons identify as Christian so it can hardly be claimed that atheists have a monopoly on criminal behaviour.
Stephanie
__________________ To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce my gallery
Do any of you belong to card exchange clubs? I belong to one (Crazy for Cats Card Club), and I get a kick out of seeing just how many cat stamps there are that I have never seen before. But I do notice that all the stamps I have that I cant figure out how to combine with a cat (at least one has to be included on every card exchange) are not being used. I have a truck load of stamps I have never used, and I find myself censoring what stamps I buy because I cant figure out how to use them with a cat. I am thinking that I should join at least one other (hopefully low-pressure) card exchange club. Any suggestions?
__________________
Carmellia
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."
Gandhi
I had joined a monthly card swap hosted by Amy Phelps last year that was amazing! The themes were pretty open and varied and it was fun having so many cards on had. Kind of in keeping with this thread though, I was getting quite a few "praying for you" cards which I just don't use. I've now opted to going to the swaps threads on SCS and choosing which swaps I want to participate in. This way I can avoid ones where the theme or sentiment isn't quite me and I can choose how many swaps I'll do and what kind of time committment I'll have. I would really suggest checking out the swap board here.
As for how to incorporate cats, what about using cool design stamps to create a "wallpaper" or "upholstry" backgound for the cat? I realize you can't do that for every single card but it could be cool. Do you have a cat that could look out a "window"? Then you could use landscape stamps to create the view out of the window. I only have one cat stamp and he's up on his back legs, batting at something. I like using him with butterfly punches.
__________________
Rachel Schott
As my best friend says, "Stamping....it's cheaper than therapy" to which I add, "Not by much".
My mom was the proud recipient of my first handmade card. Cost $200.
I have been listening to a book (on CD I have a long commute) called The better angels of our nature and I just had to recommend to all of you if you haven't read it. If you can stomach the graphic description of violence, torture, mysogyny and just plain human cruelty, it is a very interesting read on how violence has declined not only over the past several centuries but in particular the past 15 or so years. This is in direct opposition to huckabee (and his ilk) who claim that violence has increased because of our increased secularism. The book doesn't claim that increasing secularism decreases violence but one can certainly state with confidence that a lack of religion does not cause it.
I sometimes catch myself wishing I had the comfort of believing in those situations, particularly when my sister died, but then I start thinking (thinking- what a curse it is sometimes) about all the negative stuff that goes with that brief comfort and I go back to feeling pretty good about the fact that when I die my molecules will be returned to the universe and live on that way. Kinda corny but that is what comforts me. And I so think someone out there watching over me is creepy too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyMel2
Thanks, Wrose. Sitting here thinking, it's almost as though I sort of wish I still believed. There is no comfort for me; no feeling of "seeing him again" and it just is so deep. DH says that when anyone dies that it makes you sit back and re-evaluate your life; think of your own mortality and legacy, and it's just part of the process. He is probably right. He usually is.
Sorry, last one for now. I really should catch up before I make comments but I go through haphazardly and end up doing this. On the subject of christians do bad things, most of the violence perpetrated in the middle ages and beyond was by christians. In fact one of the popes, can't remember which, was given sainthood BECAUSE of his exquisite torture techniques.
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In a god that lets little children die to make a point that people aren't worshipping him enough? Oh yeah, sure. 
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