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Old 08-16-2012, 12:14 PM   #1761
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I don't think I posted this here. I checked a few things about Ryan after the announcement was made. Ryan, a Catholic, has been married for nearly 12 years. He has 3 kids. Can't seem to find their exact ages. Either Mrs. Ryan is very good at basal body temperature recording or they don't have a lot of sex or they are using some of that nasty birth control. I do acknowledge there could have been a hysterectomy or something.

If a person is running on banning abortion and contraception I think it out to be fair game to ask questions on this stuff, don't you?
It is fair game, but I would definitely want details before proceeding. Let me know if you can find out more. Perhaps she has simply had some trouble conceiving.

This is even more interesting.
Ryan Family Fortune Built on Public Works Projects That Romney Campaign Mocks | Alternet
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #1762
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I would say that's two issues that are important to you! But - I agree.

I guess I don't agree with the direction Romney wants the money to flow, and I do agree with the general Democrat platform of helping those less fortunate. I DO feel that sense of obligation that those who've done well should be concerned about those who have not had opportunity. (I also think if the trend against that continues, we should prepare for revolution. And perhaps with the advancement of the police state, they are!)

But besides that, I am DEFINITELY voting on social issues this election. Some years it hasn't been of primary importance, because neither candidate was looking to regress 50 years into the past.

But this year? I don't care how nice you are, if you are anti-reproductive rights and anti-gay anything, you don't have my vote.
I agree Wrose. It seems to me that the conservative christians (catholics, Mormon, evangelicals) are finally running into the modern world head on. As far as I am concerned they have already lost the war on LGBT rights. They just don't want to admit it yet. And the church which is supposedly broke because of all the child rape lawsuits somehow has millions to spend fighting this. Mormons don't have lawsuits but they apparently have plenty of money. The continued fight on contraception just boggles my mind.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:13 PM   #1763
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It is fair game, but I would definitely want details before proceeding. Let me know if you can find out more. Perhaps she has simply had some trouble conceiving.

This is even more interesting.
Ryan Family Fortune Built on Public Works Projects That Romney Campaign Mocks | Alternet
Yes, I read that, it's hard to get the feeling he was just a poor guy who pulled himself up by his bootstraps, Oscar Meyer truck not withstanding.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:13 PM   #1764
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Along the same vein, everyone made much of the Amish community who forgave the guy who murdered 5 girls. They can forgive that and not one of their own children who leaves the community because they want a different life? Shunned for life? Great.
Not that I am defending them shunning their children, but my guess is this: They are willing to forgive someone like this killer because he has been corrupt by the world as it is. As if to say that the modern world made him that way. Sort of a forgive them for they know not what they do mentality. With their children, they were brought up the "right" way and chose to leave. That would make them "weak"...they have been infultrated by evil. Like all religions, they believe that THEY are the ones who have it right and the others are lost.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #1765
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Not that I am defending them shunning their children, but my guess is this: They are willing to forgive someone like this killer because he has been corrupt by the world as it is. As if to say that the modern world made him that way. Sort of a forgive them for they know not what they do mentality. With their children, they were brought up the "right" way and chose to leave. That would make them "weak"...they have been infultrated by evil. Like all religions, they believe that THEY are the ones who have it right and the others are lost.
I hadn't thought about it that way. Perhaps you're right.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:17 AM   #1766
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OK....I was tempted to post this in CE but don't have the nerve. What I'm wondering is.....

where are the religous nuts claiming that god must not approve of the GOP...otherwise why send a hurricane to Tampa this week? Didn't some ultra-religous types blame the democrats for the bad weather or earthquake in the northeast a few years back?
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:46 AM   #1767
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OK....I was tempted to post this in CE but don't have the nerve. What I'm wondering is.....

where are the religous nuts claiming that god must not approve of the GOP...otherwise why send a hurricane to Tampa this week? Didn't some ultra-religous types blame the democrats for the bad weather or earthquake in the northeast a few years back?
No, they would claim it's the devil's work.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:11 PM   #1768
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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OK....I was tempted to post this in CE but don't have the nerve. What I'm wondering is.....

where are the religous nuts claiming that god must not approve of the GOP...otherwise why send a hurricane to Tampa this week? Didn't some ultra-religous types blame the democrats for the bad weather or earthquake in the northeast a few years back?
Actually I have seen non-religious comments saying this.


Religious people excel at dismissing cognitive dissonance.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:19 PM   #1769
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OK....I was tempted to post this in CE but don't have the nerve. What I'm wondering is.....

where are the religous nuts claiming that god must not approve of the GOP...otherwise why send a hurricane to Tampa this week? Didn't some ultra-religous types blame the democrats for the bad weather or earthquake in the northeast a few years back?
Oh! Snap!
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:38 PM   #1770
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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V, you know why Jack Reacher hated to fly Alaska Airlines back in the day? (Before they all stopped serving meals in coach.)



Yes, relevant to thread. Reacher is a character in Lee Child's novels.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:57 PM   #1771
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V, you know why Jack Reacher hated to fly Alaska Airlines back in the day? (Before they all stopped serving meals in coach.)



Yes, relevant to thread. Reacher is a character in Lee Child's novels.
I picked a good day to catch up....
why?
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #1772
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I picked a good day to catch up....
why?
The beginning of Ch. 4 in "Bad Luck and Trouble" by Lee Child.

"Reacher took a shuttle from the bus depot to the Portland airport and bought a one-way ticket on United to LAX. He used his passport for ID and his ATM card as a debit card. The one-way walk-up fare was outrageous. Alaska Airlines would have been cheaper, but Reacher hated Alaska Airlines. They put a scripture card on their meal trays. Ruined his appetite."

FYI, Alaska Airlines stopped doing this a few years ago, when airlines stopped routinely serving meals to everyone.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #1773
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I had to come on here and post...this great state of mine has done it once again...I swear, I try so hard to be middle of the road...I don't picket anyone, I don't wave flags for a cause...I keep to myself and try to stay away from all things controversial. That being said...I see something like this and it makes me want to shake someone!!!

The New Normal: NBC Salt Lake affiliate refuses to air comedy about gay couple | Mail Online

I can't believe there are so many followers of churches that flat out refuse to let the flock know what goes on outside their little existence. Just keep them watching American Idol and America's got talent...I mean, Howard Stern shooting tennis balls at a contestants jewels is far more appropriate for family viewing than a gay couple wanting a baby. UUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:31 PM   #1774
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Homophobic is a good way to describe it.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:49 PM   #1775
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Funny that you say that because I think this is one of the few times where I think that word is actually appropriate! I mean...generally someone that does not like someone is not AFRAID of them - they just don't LIKE them. In this case, I think they actually ARE afraid of them! I mean seriously...Don't you all worry your pretty little heads deciding for yourself what you think is right or wrong; let us do that for you. And I thought the Catholics were bad! haha!
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:16 PM   #1776
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hey did y'all see??? God is so displeased with the republican party he sent a hurricane to mess up their convention....
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #1777
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Funny that you say that because I think this is one of the few times where I think that word is actually appropriate! I mean...generally someone that does not like someone is not AFRAID of them - they just don't LIKE them. In this case, I think they actually ARE afraid of them! I mean seriously...Don't you all worry your pretty little heads deciding for yourself what you think is right or wrong; let us do that for you. And I thought the Catholics were bad! haha!
Well they needed to have a new revelation after the civil rights era. In 1978 the Mormon Church finally allowed blacks into the priesthood. They were expanding into places (like Brazil) where ancestry would be hard to determine. So they gathered together and had a prayer and a revelation and changed the policy.


Once again, they find themselves on the wrong side of history. As some of us march along toward full equality for all, they hold back.


But of course it's not just Mormons, it's many churches. But not all.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:31 PM   #1778
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I'm just so tired of intolerance and hate.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:33 PM   #1779
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I'm just so tired of intolerance and hate.
Sigh. Yes.

I have no tolerance for intolerance.

Actually, I even have problems with the word "tolerance." Here are the Merriam-Webster, 11th ed. (the official publishing standard in the US, by the way) definitions of the word:
1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance, fortitude, stamina
2
a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something : toleration
3
: the allowable deviation from a standard; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
4
a (1) : the capacity of the body to endure or become less responsive to a substance (as a drug) or a physiological insult especially with repeated use or exposure <developed a tolerance to painkillers>; also : the immunological state marked by unresponsiveness to a specific antigen (2) : relative capacity of an organism to grow or thrive when subjected to an unfavorable environmental factor b : the maximum amount of a pesticide residue that may lawfully remain on or in food

or, in other words:

1. " capacity to endure pain or hardship" -- your lifestyle/choices/background causes me pain and hardship, but I can endure it (after all, it's all about me)

2. "sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own" -- Sympathy has a degree of judgement to it--it is not synonymous with empathy. I judge you one your ____, but that's okay, because I can endure it. So I am tolerant of you and your _____.

3 "the allowable deviation from a standard; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece" -- although I could word this to fit my point, this is really a techinal or scientific definition, and I am going to leave it. The same with the 4th definition. Although I must say as an English major, I really could have fun with it.

So really, I'm intolerant to intolerance, including the word intolerance. How about live and let live? How about worrying about yourself and not others? (you know, the direction we give our children).

Excuse my tangent. I'm a bit of a word geek.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #1780
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I had to come on here and post...this great state of mine has done it once again...I swear, I try so hard to be middle of the road...I don't picket anyone, I don't wave flags for a cause...I keep to myself and try to stay away from all things controversial. That being said...I see something like this and it makes me want to shake someone!!!

The New Normal: NBC Salt Lake affiliate refuses to air comedy about gay couple | Mail Online

I can't believe there are so many followers of churches that flat out refuse to let the flock know what goes on outside their little existence. Just keep them watching American Idol and America's got talent...I mean, Howard Stern shooting tennis balls at a contestants jewels is far more appropriate for family viewing than a gay couple wanting a baby. UUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH
Well, here's a petition to KSL if you're interested:
Petition | KSL NBC: Don't Censor Gay Families! Show "The New Normal" on Your Channel | Change.org
Dunno that it'll do any good, but... well, whatever. I signed it.
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:41 PM   #1781
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Good for you signing the petition, Sophie. You might be interested that in New Zealand a gay marriage bill passed its first reading last night with overwhelming support. After it passes two more readings it becomes law. Yay!
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:04 PM   #1782
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Change.org sends me petitions to sign all the time. Usually I sign them. Then they send me a thank-you email asking me to ask other people to sign (through email or facebook). But they don't know that everyone I know through email is the exact opposite of me in social and religious views and they would never sign anything that I sign, and that one of them might even start a counter-petition. Everyone I used to know through Facebook is the same way, which is why I took myself off.

I'm glad that New Zealand is passing a gay marriage bill through its first reading. Hopefully it makes it through two more. I actually don't know what that means - I don't know anything about New Zealand's government and law-making process.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #1783
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I'm glad that New Zealand is passing a gay marriage bill through its first reading. Hopefully it makes it through two more. I actually don't know what that means - I don't know anything about New Zealand's government and law-making process.
I'm just finding out about how our own laws are made too! I have not really been interested until this bill. Now that it has passed the first reading (and getting voted on, 80 for and 40 against, yay!) it is open to public submissions which will take a month or two then get 'read' again and voted on. Not sure if there is further public discussions before the third reading but if it is voted for at that point then it is passed to the governer general to sign and it is law.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:57 AM   #1784
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Thought some people here might find this interesting: 8 Countries Where Atheism Is Accepted, Even Celebrated, Instead of Demonized | Alternet

No real surprises .... Scandinavian countries, France with it's official secularism, etc. As she points out:
The two measurements have a complex relationship with each other. People likely look to religion less when they want for less, for one thing, but it also may be that atheism flourishes in nations where people demonstrate high levels of commitment towards a socially just government and shared economic benefits. If you have faith in your nation and your fellow citizens, putting faith in religion as well might just seem rather pointless.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:54 PM   #1785
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Since Australia makes the list ( 8 Countries Where Atheism Is Accepted, Even Celebrated, Instead of Demonized | Alternet ) then I am surprised that New Zealand isn't there.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:12 PM   #1786
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Steph, Maybe you need to have more celebrations!!! Party on!!
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:40 PM   #1787
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This was my laugh for the day. Saw it on Facebook:

4 Religious Truths

1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as the chosen people.

2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.

4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.

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Old 08-31-2012, 05:56 PM   #1788
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This was my laugh for the day. Saw it on Facebook:

4 Religious Truths

1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as the chosen people.

2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.

4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.

ROFL! Thanks for that!
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:41 PM   #1789
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Can I vent? If the answer is no...then don't read this because I am going to do it anyway!

The LDS Missionaries just knocked on the door. This is the first time this has happened in about a year and a half. A little backstory if I may...I am always up for a discussion about different beliefs...I have studied religion on my own my whole adult life and been a member of far too many to get in to on this board. We have always invited missionaries into our homes out of, I guess you could call it a mutual respect. They are young, away from home (many for the first time) and frankly, a lot of people really treat them like crap and I think that's wrong. They are doing what they believe to be the right thing and who am I to deny them of that? Anyway...we always have been up front with them that we are not joining and up until the last 2, they had respected that. The last 2 snuck their teachings on my daughter. All of a sudden the kids in the neighborhood start bringing LDS literature to school and giving it to her; the missionaries were showing up at neighborhood basketball and volleyball matches in the park. We trusted them and left them alone with our daughters and then they betrayed us. One night our daughter comes home with them and tells me she wants to be baptized. The last year and a half we have spent trying to undo what had been done and I feel like I am finally making headway (Thank you Morgan Freeman and Through the Worm Hole!!!) Tonight, the new ones come over. I was really nice and told them that I hated that it had to be this way but I just can't trust them (Not THEM...but missionaries in general). Is that wrong of me? I don't think it is, but I feel just horrible. Why do I feel so bad? I was nice, but firm and they seemed as though they understood. If DH was here, he would have slammed the door on them. I can't tell him they came over because he will lose his mind (He spoke to the bishop and told him that if they ever came around again it would get ugly). Why do I feel so bad? I did nothing wrong...maybe I am just emotional today, who knows. I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:03 PM   #1790
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You did nothing wrong at all. You were polite and upfront with them and you didn't waste their time. Don't feel bad. It is their choice to be missionaries. I don't have any time for people who come uninvited onto my property, interrupt what I am doing and take up my time. I am always polite but firm and will interrupt a salesperson's pitch (politely) to save us both time. If I am not interested then I will say so as I feel it is dishonest to pretent to be interested to save someone face. So long as you are polite, you are ok.
Stephanie
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:25 PM   #1791
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You did nothing wrong at all. You were polite and upfront with them and you didn't waste their time. Don't feel bad. It is their choice to be missionaries. I don't have any time for people who come uninvited onto my property, interrupt what I am doing and take up my time. I am always polite but firm and will interrupt a salesperson's pitch (politely) to save us both time. If I am not interested then I will say so as I feel it is dishonest to pretent to be interested to save someone face. So long as you are polite, you are ok.
Stephanie
I agree with you, Stephanie. I do the same thing. I have had years and years to investigate all kinds of religions, and found none of them appealed to me in the least. I do not think it is kind to give someone hope that they will have an effect on my thinking, because I know they will not. It would just be a waste of everyone's time.

I never take literature which is handed to me out in public either. I always smile, hand it back, and say thank you but no. Please give this to someone else who might like to read it.

And I like what you said about "coming uninvited onto your property." I am not a fearful person by nature, but the world has become very different than it used to be. I do not feel a bit bad when I don't answer or open my door when someone I don't know shows up uninvited on my doorstep.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:54 PM   #1792
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Mel, you can think of it as doing them a favor. Why let them waste their time?

We are on most do not call lists and have lots of rules about getting calls, so we don't get a lot, but sometimes when I'm waiting for a call back from somebody important, and picking up every time (which nobody ever usually does here), I will tell them at the first pause that I'm not interested, and hang up the phone, gentle. I can usually hear them start talking again as the phone is leaving my ear.

When we used to answer the phone more, DH always did that. He didn't wait for them to pause, though. lol I'm nicer. If I'm bored and they start up again, I will tell them that they really don't want to waste any more time on me. Then I hang up.

So consider yourself having done them a favor and DO NOT FEEL BAD.

In a way, I'm happy that are so polite and nice that you feel bad, but really, you don't need to. It's okay. You really don't owe them any explanation, so don't even feel like that's something you have to do.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:55 PM   #1793
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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This was my laugh for the day. Saw it on Facebook:

4 Religious Truths

1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as the chosen people.

2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.

4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.

Ha ha ha!
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:11 AM   #1794
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This was my laugh for the day. Saw it on Facebook:

4 Religious Truths

1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as the chosen people.

2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.

4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.


LOL!! Thanks for good chuckle!!!
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:12 AM   #1795
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I had to come on here and post...this great state of mine has done it once again...I swear, I try so hard to be middle of the road...I don't picket anyone, I don't wave flags for a cause...I keep to myself and try to stay away from all things controversial. That being said...I see something like this and it makes me want to shake someone!!!

The New Normal: NBC Salt Lake affiliate refuses to air comedy about gay couple | Mail Online

I can't believe there are so many followers of churches that flat out refuse to let the flock know what goes on outside their little existence. Just keep them watching American Idol and America's got talent...I mean, Howard Stern shooting tennis balls at a contestants jewels is far more appropriate for family viewing than a gay couple wanting a baby. UUUUGGGGGGHHHHHH
Now Mel...let's not pick on Howard! (or Horse for that matter...he's a friend of my boys!)
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #1796
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[QUOTE=MadgeRPh;19656935]Now Mel...let's not pick on Howard! (or Horse for that matter...he's a friend of my boys!)[/QUOT

HAHA~ I CRINGED when that was going on!! DH curled up in his chair with a look on his face like he could FEEL the pain!
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:26 PM   #1797
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Can I vent? If the answer is no...then don't read this because I am going to do it anyway!

The LDS Missionaries just knocked on the door. This is the first time this has happened in about a year and a half. A little backstory if I may...I am always up for a discussion about different beliefs...I have studied religion on my own my whole adult life and been a member of far too many to get in to on this board. We have always invited missionaries into our homes out of, I guess you could call it a mutual respect. They are young, away from home (many for the first time) and frankly, a lot of people really treat them like crap and I think that's wrong. They are doing what they believe to be the right thing and who am I to deny them of that? Anyway...we always have been up front with them that we are not joining and up until the last 2, they had respected that. The last 2 snuck their teachings on my daughter. All of a sudden the kids in the neighborhood start bringing LDS literature to school and giving it to her; the missionaries were showing up at neighborhood basketball and volleyball matches in the park. We trusted them and left them alone with our daughters and then they betrayed us. One night our daughter comes home with them and tells me she wants to be baptized. The last year and a half we have spent trying to undo what had been done and I feel like I am finally making headway (Thank you Morgan Freeman and Through the Worm Hole!!!) Tonight, the new ones come over. I was really nice and told them that I hated that it had to be this way but I just can't trust them
I'm not sure I understand the "leaving them alone with your daughters" part. You mean because they (the LDS) were showing up at the park? Did they seem to be targeting your kids in particular? How old are your kids?

That's awful! You certainly have nothing to feel bad about even without the incidents with your kids. As others have said, the world is different a different place. I'm surprised anyone answers the door anymore. They're not home or don't feel safe opening up to strangers.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:23 PM   #1798
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Opening the door is complicated. Here we don't open the door much. We peek out first. But then we know that there have been break-ins when they ring the doorbell and if nobody answers, they go in. There was one recently where there were young kids at home for a bit and they hid upstairs in a closet and were okay. So they are saying the best thing is to either use your intercom if you have one, or just yell through the door, "not interested." Of course I'm in a huge metro area, that break in was nowhere near me but still, it makes you realize that when cities cut police forces, the crooks know it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #1799
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I'm not sure I understand the "leaving them alone with your daughters" part. .
My daughters are both 17 now (15-16 at the time) and the sister missionaries would come by and they would go into the game room and play Jenga and stuff like that. It was a natural thing for this to happen so I did not ever hesitate. The last pair of girls was probably the 10th set of girls that had lived here in just a few years. There is a house around the corner and that is where they stay when they are assigned to our town. For years this had just been a part of our life...the "sisters" would come over and have dinner sometimes, help with yard work...one pair actually helped us paint the living room one weekend. There is generally a new crop of girls every 6 months or so...sometimes 1 stays behind while another goes someplace else...and then a new girl would come to town.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #1800
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OH...and the bringing literature to school part...there was a group of girls in the "Young Womens" group that all of a sudden started dropping by with gifts for my one daughter. One time it was jewelry, one time it was a set of scriptures with her name on it, cookies, diaries...you name it, they brought it. When we asked them to stop coming around, they would then bring it to school and give it to her there. It just got out of control. I really do not like confrontation so I got to the point where I did not open the blinds when I came home because I did not want to see them knocking at the door. That was when my husband went to the bishop and it all stopped.
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