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Old 05-29-2012, 06:58 AM   #1561
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I'm betting there are more than a few mothers of sons who think their boy's teenage years are better off forgotten! (Me for one)
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:39 AM   #1562
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"I don't believe Jesus was God", that he didn't consider the resurrection a scientific fact, and that he was agnostic on the question of an afterlife. What is important, Phipps argued, is not notions of the afterlife but fighting poverty and suffering on earth. He said that what is important is not so much whether or not the Bible is a literal historical record but the teachings and example of Jesus. This sparked great debate in the church, with some congregations passing motions asserting their faith in Jesus' literal resurrection."
Yeah that part.


And the reaction is classic, stomp my feet and say, "but I do believe in Santa Claus!"
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:52 PM   #1563
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Hi.

I just stumbled across this thread. Wondering if there are any friends of bill here.

I loved this essay. My mom did a version of #3 with me about Santa -- she said that Santa is the spirit of giving and that she believes in Santa. She and I both still do, actually

I defended Santa for years -- up until 6th grade when I had a very memorable argument with school kids.

I questioned the notion of God as early as my first kindergarten Sunday school class. "What do you mean he is just there"

Today I believe "god" whom I choose to call my higher power, is the spirit of love.

I heard a funny line from someone. She said her husband was talking and shared "xxx will get done, God willing." And his father replied "God's willing. Are you?"

Blessings to you all this day,

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Originally Posted by AlysonRR View Post
V - good luck on your fund raising!

------------

I've been following this blog by the guy who wrote "Parenting Beyond Belief", and I thought this post was very interesting. It's about how he ended up using the Santa myth to encourage skeptical and critical thinking in his children. Since this is pretty much the approach I've taken, I like the article

Here's the link: The Meming of Life Santa Claus – The Ultimate Dry Run Parenting Beyond Belief on secular parenting and other natural wonders

-------------

I think I blew the Santa myth for my 7-yo daughter. She wanted to eat a chocolate orange and I told her they were for Christmas stockings... So now she knows Santa doesn't fill the stockings, mom does. My 10-yo son still hasn't asked if Santa is real, but I think my daughter will be this year.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #1564
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I do remember the day I realized that *I* was Santa Claus. It hit me hard, I guess because I'd always thought of Santa as the spirit of giving rather than any "person." But there I was, putting the tree together, had done all the shopping, all the wrapping, I got all the candy and always did the stockings, and I was thinking how Christmas wouldn't happen if I didn't do it. And then it hit me. I was Santa Claus.

Too bad I can't fly with reindeer, it would probably be easier than the TSA.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #1565
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I love that image.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:24 PM   #1566
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Lela, who are "friends of bill" that you referred to?
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:14 PM   #1567
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sent a PM
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:04 AM   #1568
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Too bad I can't fly with reindeer, it would probably be easier than the TSA.
Those are the truest words I've heard lately!

I *love* giving, but 'being' Santa all the time isn't much fun for Santa. Wouldn't it be nice to find oneself the recipient of a surprise, now and then?

Alyson, that's a brilliant article - thank you for posting the link.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:28 AM   #1569
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Sending you a cyber<< hug>>, LindaBabe.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:24 PM   #1570
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Anyway, now that I'm actively looking for stuff to refute NDEs I seem to be finding more in favor of them than not. Anyone got some good links for me?
I won't expect quick answers due to the holiday weekend but any help is appreciated.
I haven't been here for a while, so not sure if you found your answer or not, but I'm pretty sure there was an article about this in an edition of Skeptic magazine published in the last year or so. Skeptic The Magazine Current Issue: Volume 17 Number 2

Sorry, I don't have the issue anymore, but I remember reading about it maybe 6 months ago.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:10 PM   #1571
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I haven't been here for a while, so not sure if you found your answer or not, but I'm pretty sure there was an article about this in an edition of Skeptic magazine published in the last year or so. Skeptic The Magazine Current Issue: Volume 17 Number 2

Sorry, I don't have the issue anymore, but I remember reading about it maybe 6 months ago.
That did lead to some other info.


BBC News - Near-death experience &#039;all in the mind&#039;


and this article from last fall:
Skeptic eSkeptic Wednesday, August 11th, 2010
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:53 AM   #1572
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Well, gosh, I stopped checking this thread because there was no conversation for a few days and now I come back and there are PAGES of conversation to catch up on!! While I was reading everything, I was commenting in my head and now that I am to the end, I forgot what I was going to say!!

On the heaven and hell thing...My dad used to say that hell was what was going on now. Sadness, stress...that kind of thing. Heaven is what happens when you die because then it's all over...no more sadness, no more worry. I found that comforting at times and still kind of hang on to that mindset. Death has always been something I am not good at dealing with; went to more funerals than I should have when I was young and I suppose that's why. I think when I lost my dad I realized that these people were gone forever and one day I will be gone forever too and as much as I wanted to believe that we would see eachother again, I really did not believe it in my heart. I don't believe in an afterlife, or reincarnation or any of it. Being a fallen Catholic, I have known many former/reformed Catholics who call for a priest when on their death bed...I think it's just as an "in case I am wrong, don't want to take the chance" sort of thing. Whatever gets you through the night.

Cemeteries...My mom and grandpa are at cemeteries; dad is in lots of places. My brothers and I could not agree on what to do with his ashes so we each took some and did what we thought he would have wanted. My brother refers to dad as "Braveheart" to this day because of it haha! I never really liked visiting my moms grave, never sat and talked to her like they do in the movies or anything like that. Because of that, I don't want to be burried anywhere. No funeral either. I have told my family that I want to be cremated and they are on board with that...I have told them to donate what they can and whatever is left, burn it and throw whats there from the top of a waterfall or something.

On the character thing...when no one but god is watching...funny that they threw god in there; I have never known the "but god" to be in there either. I think I mentioned it here once before: If you are only doing good for "greater reward" after death, then you are doing good for the wrong reasons. Do it because it's right, not because you think it's going to get you in to heaven. If the Jehova's Witnesses are right, it's probably close to capacity up there anyway.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:00 PM   #1573
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It is always nice to see postings here.

I went to cemeteries a lot when I was a kid, because dad always went and generally most of us kids went. Until we got old enough to be doing other things. My mom is fascinated by old cemeteries. She really likes to slowly wander them, reading the headstones, getting bits of stories from them.

She came out here and visited most of the California missions, and of course most have a graveyard you can tour. lol I'd be in the gift shop waiting for her.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #1574
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We had our dog cremated and the vet's called a little while ago, they have the ashes back.

*sigh* I miss him.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #1575
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I had wondered about Phantom. I'm so sorry. I had to let my BB go about a month ago (kidney failure) and I still cry about him. Interesting about cemetaries-I have always loved to go to old ones and just wonder about the people,what their lives were like, how they died, etc. Never cared about going to family members graves, tho. No feeling that there was much point to it I guess. My family (husb. and kids) and I just never liked typical funerals, "viewing the body" just gives me the creeps. Husband died in 2008 , went to the Tissue Bank, and then was cremated. That's what will be done with the kids and me. My little dog was cremated and now he stays on a chest in my bedroom!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:01 PM   #1576
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I had wondered about Phantom. I'm so sorry. I had to let my BB go about a month ago (kidney failure) and I still cry about him. Interesting about cemetaries-I have always loved to go to old ones and just wonder about the people,what their lives were like, how they died, etc. Never cared about going to family members graves, tho. No feeling that there was much point to it I guess. My family (husb. and kids) and I just never liked typical funerals, "viewing the body" just gives me the creeps. Husband died in 2008 , went to the Tissue Bank, and then was cremated. That's what will be done with the kids and me. My little dog was cremated and now he stays on a chest in my bedroom!
Well, that's one way to get a dog to "stay."

Sorry, not making light of your grief at all. I tend to speak what crosses my mind.

My dh and I just signed our wills today. Cremation for us, too. I hope our kids dig out all our old photos, reminisce and toast our lives with a nice glass of wine.

And Suber, I'm so sorry about your husband and your BB.

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Old 06-09-2012, 12:24 AM   #1577
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Suber, thank you and I'm sorry about yours too. It's been just two weeks since we let Phantom go. He was 16 and a half, so pretty old. Lots of good happy memories.

Yeah cremation sounds fine to me.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:39 AM   #1578
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My dh and I just signed our wills today. Cremation for us, too. I hope our kids dig out all our old photos, reminisce and toast our lives with a nice glass of wine.
Rainsong
I'm for cremation as well, and so is my partner (yeah - unmarried and due for eternity in hell... I don't think!) I need to work out how to ensure my organs are donated as I don't drive and so don't have a licence to indicate 'organ donor' on.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:49 AM   #1579
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My main thing is that I want to donate my organs. Beyond that, since the service is for my loved ones -- they can decide how they want to go about it.

I received an e-mail from my niece that was very saturated with comments about Jesus. I guess the cartoonist Maxine had a series of comics about the topic. Anyway, I don't love it that I get so upset when I receive these but I do.

It is ok, she can believe what she wants. God as she understands God, and all. I am not sure why she needs to saturate my inbox with her beliefs. Makes me wonder every time if she is thinking I will convert, or I am going to hell, or I am not sure what.

She sends other notes too, and this is infrequent enough that I won't ask her to remove me from her list. I can delete it easily enough.

I just had a new forum here to express my frustration so I thought I would.

Blessings (not the judeo Christian kind unless that is the kind you want),

Lela
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #1580
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.

Blessings (not the judeo Christian kind unless that is the kind you want),
I think I may have just found the perfect greeting for my Christmas cards this year!!!
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #1581
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Rainsong, I thought your comment about getting the dog to "stay" was funny. He never stayed so well in life! I tend to deal with the hard stuff with dumb jokes and laughter. Letting our dogs go is hard, but the right thing to do. Sometimes I wonder why we don't do the same for people(not that I ever could) but still. I can just about understand why some support assisted suicide. I get the AlterNet emails-good article about religion in yesterdays.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:54 AM   #1582
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I am sorry for your loss -- We put our yellow lab Beau down a couple years ago and we still miss him sometimes. We have a new sweet thing who has stolen our heart, but a different corner of it for sure. <<hugs>>

Blessings, (not the ...)

Lela

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Suber, thank you and I'm sorry about yours too. It's been just two weeks since we let Phantom go. He was 16 and a half, so pretty old. Lots of good happy memories.

Yeah cremation sounds fine to me.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #1583
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That was inspired by a PM exchange with StampinWrose actually.

I never knew my signing of "blessings" sounded Christian -- it wasn't intended to sound Christian or not Christian. She gave me new insights.

Peaceful blessings,

Lela

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I think I may have just found the perfect greeting for my Christmas cards this year!!!
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #1584
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suber - I am sorry for your loss too.

Blessings,

Lela

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I had wondered about Phantom. I'm so sorry. I had to let my BB go about a month ago (kidney failure) and I still cry about him. Interesting about cemetaries-I have always loved to go to old ones and just wonder about the people,what their lives were like, how they died, etc. Never cared about going to family members graves, tho. No feeling that there was much point to it I guess. My family (husb. and kids) and I just never liked typical funerals, "viewing the body" just gives me the creeps. Husband died in 2008 , went to the Tissue Bank, and then was cremated. That's what will be done with the kids and me. My little dog was cremated and now he stays on a chest in my bedroom!
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #1585
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Thank you all for your kind thoughts and blessings( of whatever persuasion).
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:24 PM   #1586
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I haven't been here for a while, so not sure if you found your answer or not, but I'm pretty sure there was an article about this in an edition of Skeptic magazine published in the last year or so. Skeptic The Magazine Current Issue: Volume 17 Number 2

Sorry, I don't have the issue anymore, but I remember reading about it maybe 6 months ago.
Thanks I'll check it out.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:33 PM   #1587
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Thanks Wrose! And sorry your good buddy has ended his journey.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:53 PM   #1588
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Interesting about cemataries-I have always loved to go to old ones and just wonder about the people,what their lives were like, how they died, etc. Never cared about going to family members graves, tho. No feeling that there was much point to it I guess. My family (husb. and kids) and I just never liked typical funerals, "viewing the body" just gives me the creeps. Husband died in 2008 , went to the Tissue Bank, and then was cremated. That's what will be done with the kids and me. My little dog was cremated and now he stays on a chest in my bedroom!
I know they say it's good for the family to see the body . It's supposed to help you accept the death. Definitely don't want to go through the funeral home flush and stitching and makeup. I've seen how some people just keep the body on ice at home for a few days and then take body to the crematoria. I don't think my family would be up for that so it's straight to cremation for me. I've told them to sprinkle a little of me at the Packer's Lambeau Field and the rest near Lake Michigan.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:18 PM   #1589
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My 80 year old mother was rather progressive for her crowd, and wanted cremation. But first we had to do the whole mortician open-coffin thing for the viewing. I didn't really get it, but at least she didn't expect to take up real estate for the next several hundred years.

I think burial in the ground is outrageous. Dead people should take up land ....why? The Indians have it right with cremation (except in the villages where they use wood fires that burn for 3 days--not so environmental, either). We have a local high school that was built in the 1950s, and badly needs replacing. When they started ripping it down to build a new school, they found that it had been built on top not just a First Nations burial ground (that's the aboriginal people of Canada), but also a Chinese cemetery from the late 1800s/early 1900s. Well, everything has ground to a halt--for years and years. There is no other land available, but now they're not allowed to rebuild here. Nonsense, I say. Rebuild the new school, and in the wing over the burial ground, dedicate it to those people, and have a photo/art/etc. exhibit honouring and commemorating those long forgotten people, and their history. Take the opportunity to turn a problem into an educational, respectful solution. (Does respect have to mean that the ground will never be touched again?)

That said, I enjoy walking through old cemeteries and reading the stones. It's very interesting, and teaches me about the history of the place.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:51 PM   #1590
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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They found a native cemetery in this area recently too, when they went to build something.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:52 PM   #1591
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Originally Posted by Serenity_Stamper View Post


That was inspired by a PM exchange with StampinWrose actually.

I never knew my signing of "blessings" sounded Christian -- it wasn't intended to sound Christian or not Christian. She gave me new insights.

Peaceful blessings,

Lela

Yes, that was funny! I mentioned that I'm so used to seeing "blessings" followed by scripture quotes!


See it's true what they say about assume-ing things. I had made incorrect assumptions!
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:06 PM   #1592
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I know they say it's good for the family to see the body . It's supposed to help you accept the death. Definitely don't want to go through the funeral home flush and stitching and makeup. I've seen how some people just keep the body on ice at home for a few days and then take body to the crematoria. I don't think my family would be up for that so it's straight to cremation for me. I've told them to sprinkle a little of me at the Packer's Lambeau Field and the rest near Lake Michigan.
I adore the practicality of my parents! My dad also said to call the crematorium first and not the funeral home. I have very specific instructions from my dad (who is in perfect health and only 62) that make me smile because it's so him! I'm to have him cremated and put into an urn (preferable hand sculpted Native American pottery) and my brother and I are to have joint custody of Dad's remains. When my mom passes (dad is convinced he'll go first) he wants her ashes in the same urn and I'm supposed to give it a little shake so they can be together for eternity. My mom is so cute, because she pulled me aside and said "Rachel, nobody's going to know what you do with the ashes once we're both gone. You don't need to keep us on a shelf. Mix me with cement and turn me into a nice garden sculpture or bench." I love my folks!

I don't visit my grandparents' grave sites because the cementary is not where I knew them. I remember my grandpa everytime I see a pheasant and I get to commune with my grandma everytime I break out one of her recipes. They aren't at a place now that they've died, they're within me. I also didn't need to see their bodies at the funeral for closure since it didn't even look like them.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:58 AM   #1593
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My two aunts keep sending me chain emails, and several of the notes involve religion or God in some way. The aunts aren't trying to convert me, they assume I believe. But the latest email begins with "God doesn't give you the people you want; He gives you the people you NEED... to help you, to hurt you, to leave you, to love you and to make you into the person you were meant to be."
One of the reasons I'm not much of a believer is because I don't like the idea of a god who would purposely throw people into your life just to screw with you. It seems petty and mean. There have been crappy moments in life that changed me, but to think that pain was intentionally thrown in by someone is just awful. Couldn't I just have been made differently to start with, and been able to bypass the pain I learned so much from?
I keep debating whether or not to say something to my aunts, but don't want to give them heart attacks.
I know what you mean. I have a cousin who send me similar stuff all the time. I know she means well, but... At any rate, I am going to visit her for a few days this summer and I do hope that I manage to keep my big bazoo zipped!

Some Christians are taught and believe that the only way to heaven is to belong to their religion. They are also taught that it is a wonderful thing to convert others as they are "saving" them. Geeez.

Being related to such people is a real challenge.

I don't send any greetings that aren't from my heart. I make a point not to write anything offensive as that is not the point nor would I want that done to me.

It helps to discuss these matters with others of like mind.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #1594
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I think I may have just found the perfect greeting for my Christmas cards this year!!!
I love that line too!

I hope it's ok that I lurk now and then. I still do believe but I'm not sure I can muster much trust in religion any more. For one thing, coming from half-Jewish, half-Catholic family I've seen too much goodness (and plenty of weirdness and some sad stuff) on both sides to believe that one religion is entirely right and the rest are all worthless/leading people astray/going to hell/whatevs. And it just seems that when I was growing up, the religious people I knew on both sides seemed to find in faith an encouragement to live with compassion and generosity. Today more and more of the loudest religious voices on all sides seem to want to use religion to sanctify their distaste or outright hatred for people who don't share their priorities, and to insist on orthodoxy even when that orthodoxy leaves no room for the very compassion for others most religions claim as their core belief. I converted to Catholicism but seeing the prettymuch industrial scale coverup of priests abusing children that went on for years not to mention Benedict calling out anyone who disagrees with everything the church said really eroded my sense of connection to the church.

I just feel more and more adrift these days. I still have strong beliefs and can't imagine my life without them, but I can't stand that people want to use all that's kind, compassionate, dedicated to justice, gratitude and reverence that always made it means so much to me and twist it into intolerance and contempt. I've just never felt that faith and reason need to be at odds. These days, though, I feel more at home with people willing to question that darker, oppressive and cruel side of what people do in the name of religion.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:27 AM   #1595
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I so agree with what you said, Muddy Otter. I was a Christian for most of my life, until right-wing religion started turning me off on the whole subject. What thses people say and do is totally the opposite of the Jesus I believed in. So many of these churches teach that people are wicked. If that is so, then you can't love and respect them, can you. They also jump all over you for having doubts and questions. I've heard and seen this happen. That, to me, sounds like fear,"What if I'm wrong about all this?". I may be wrong, but that's how I see it. And it's very good to have a place to express these things.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:47 AM   #1596
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Blessings in s a fantastic Chinese restaurant out here with AWESOME honey walnut prawns...I'll take those blessings

My daughter is buried. For the first, about year I guess, I went to her grave because I thought I should. I had a lot of guilt about not wanting to go. I finally got over it. Her body is there. She's not coming back.
Personally I want to be cremated and put into the Pacific Ocean. I don't want my family to have the expense of any of the funeral and stuff.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:21 PM   #1597
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
Blessings in s a fantastic Chinese restaurant out here with AWESOME honey walnut prawns...I'll take those blessings

My daughter is buried. For the first, about year I guess, I went to her grave because I thought I should. I had a lot of guilt about not wanting to go. I finally got over it. Her body is there. She's not coming back.
Personally I want to be cremated and put into the Pacific Ocean. I don't want my family to have the expense of any of the funeral and stuff.
It is interesting that you went for awhile because you thought you should.

I never thought about it much because I grew up HAVING to go with dad to the cemeteries. He'd make the rounds, we'd traipse along and say a little prayer. Even then I knew I'd never remember where they all were. But I never questioned it.

But when I moved away, and had none to visit - I did not miss it or desire to go home and visit cemeteries.

And it's interesting to remember that mom wasn't along most of the time, either she was home with a little one or didn't want to go but dad did? I should ask her. (She'll be 84 tomorrow!)

But yeah now that I have thought about it....

Glad you enjoyed your Chinese food. Any place I've been??
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:23 PM   #1598
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I love that line too!

I hope it's ok that I lurk now and then. I still do believe but I'm not sure I can muster much trust in religion any more. For one thing, coming from half-Jewish, half-Catholic family I've seen too much goodness (and plenty of weirdness and some sad stuff) on both sides to believe that one religion is entirely right and the rest are all worthless/leading people astray/going to hell/whatevs. And it just seems that when I was growing up, the religious people I knew on both sides seemed to find in faith an encouragement to live with compassion and generosity. Today more and more of the loudest religious voices on all sides seem to want to use religion to sanctify their distaste or outright hatred for people who don't share their priorities, and to insist on orthodoxy even when that orthodoxy leaves no room for the very compassion for others most religions claim as their core belief. I converted to Catholicism but seeing the prettymuch industrial scale coverup of priests abusing children that went on for years not to mention Benedict calling out anyone who disagrees with everything the church said really eroded my sense of connection to the church.

I just feel more and more adrift these days. I still have strong beliefs and can't imagine my life without them, but I can't stand that people want to use all that's kind, compassionate, dedicated to justice, gratitude and reverence that always made it means so much to me and twist it into intolerance and contempt. I've just never felt that faith and reason need to be at odds. These days, though, I feel more at home with people willing to question that darker, oppressive and cruel side of what people do in the name of religion.
At least you're a known lurker.

And you don't chastise us and tell us we're all going to hell. I mean I know people think it.....


I think you are not alone, being a spiritual person looking for a kind church.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:24 PM   #1599
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I am sorry for your loss -- We put our yellow lab Beau down a couple years ago and we still miss him sometimes. We have a new sweet thing who has stolen our heart, but a different corner of it for sure. <<hugs>>

Blessings, (not the ...)

Lela
I used to say that if we had the room, I'd get a lab of each color! They are such great dogs.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #1600
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Originally Posted by sewsplendidstamper View Post
Blessings in s a fantastic Chinese restaurant out here with AWESOME honey walnut prawns...I'll take those blessings

My daughter is buried. For the first, about year I guess, I went to her grave because I thought I should. I had a lot of guilt about not wanting to go. I finally got over it. Her body is there. She's not coming back.
Personally I want to be cremated and put into the Pacific Ocean. I don't want my family to have the expense of any of the funeral and stuff.
I feel a little weird about not visiting my parents' graves. I have memories of my mom and grandma taking us to the cemetery to cut the grass and plant flowers. I only go if I'm with one of my (believing) brothers and they want to go.
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