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Old 04-26-2012, 09:50 PM   #1481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlysonRR View Post
Duh, guess that would help, LOL:
Losing Your Religion: Analytic Thinking Can Undermine Belief: Scientific American

Oh, and here's another article that gives a few more details of the original journal article:

If You Answer This Math Problem Correctly, You May Be an Atheist
Did you scroll down to read the comments??? Hilarious!!! I love the comment that says "math is stupid, just like religion". (I like math)

I got both answers wrong, despite liking math. As the (current) first comment says, "I have failed as an atheist". LOL

Anyway, I was once a believer and now am not, not because of analytical thought or the internet. Sometimes, I think I still DO believe that God exists, because of the rage that simply arises in me against God (I think if I TRULY did not believe that there was a god, I wouldn't have this rage - I mean, I NEVER rage against Santa Claus). It's just that while I believe that (the Protestant) God exists in those moments of rage, I disagree with Him vehemently and viscerally and think it is unconscionable that He allowed SO much ugliness into the Bible that allows some (okay, in my personal opinion, it is a LOT) of His followers to behave in such extremely awful, cruel, and mean ways. I guess the turning point was decades ago when a (straight) couple asked me WHY it was so wrong for gays to marry. I gave the pat religious answer, but hated myself for it. I felt horror at what I had said. I guess that was more the final straw than anything. Years and years of having given pat religious answers and feeling like a idiot parroting hypocrite and the resulting self-hatred and self-disgust crashed down on me and I finally "came out" as a "non-believer".
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:16 PM   #1482
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I hear your on your rage - I also get very angry when I think of the horror people can and have delivered on other people in God's name. I feel this anger even though I have never believed in God's existance. If people perpetrated such horror in the name of Santa Claus, I would be just as angry.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:35 AM   #1483
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Reminds me of a line from House...You can't be angry at god and not believe in him at the same time. I swear when I heard that line, I thought they were talking to me (That's why I remember it after such a long time) I think there are lots of people who feel that way, I think it is only natural if you have ever had religion in your life. I mean, I think the anger is just par for the course. But what made that anger turn to non-belief? I think that something, somewhere, CAUSED believers to become non-believers. Something happened to make us question the existance. To those who never DID believe, that would not apply but for anyone who made the switch and went the other way, I think it's more of a response or a reaction to something that has happened in our lives than just a curiosity.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:57 AM   #1484
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Hmmm, I guess I really don't know what I believe. I believe that IF the Protestant God DOES exist (which...I guess I do believe that HE DOES exist when I become furious towards Him), that this God is a malevolent, evil God. What caused me to believe this? Reading the Bible. I guess I never questioned His existance, because ...I guess I don't really CARE if He is real or not - it's too late. The BIBLE is real enough, and has done far too much damage. In times when I am raging against God, I hold Him responsible for the ugliness that I see condoned and encouraged in the Bible. In more rational, calm times, I hold mankind responsible for being needy enough to invent a religion; unfortunately, it is an ugly invention that reflects the ugliest and the most brutal side of the most powerful section of mankind. I guess I am not a true non-believer. I'm actually an agnostic who doesn't care if God is real or not. But if He IS real, I believe He's evil and malicious, and I will NEVER regard the Bible as a book of goodness.
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:27 PM   #1485
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Reminds me of a line from House...You can't be angry at god and not believe in him at the same time. I swear when I heard that line, I thought they were talking to me (That's why I remember it after such a long time) I think there are lots of people who feel that way, I think it is only natural if you have ever had religion in your life. I mean, I think the anger is just par for the course. But what made that anger turn to non-belief? I think that something, somewhere, CAUSED believers to become non-believers. Something happened to make us question the existance. To those who never DID believe, that would not apply but for anyone who made the switch and went the other way, I think it's more of a response or a reaction to something that has happened in our lives than just a curiosity.
I love House for the way they've posed some of these questions and situations.

I have to agree. It's like couples - love and hate. If you hate, you still care, in some way. If you don't care, it's completely over.

I don't have that hate. I've only been an atheist for - less than ten years. It's definitely been just a kind of thoughtful awakening.

I know the history, the Crusades, the Inquisition. If you are in a loving church atmosphere, I think it's easy to understand that all institutions have had their bad times. A church is more than just belief in God, it's an organization that grows and can be easily corrupted by greed and power. Back in the days when the church was so powerful, in Europe, they fed the poor, they paid the artists, there was nothing without the church. The corruption comes when leaders in church decide who they will and will not help. It can be something simple like turning away people of one race or color. Or it can be in abuse of the helpless (don't even have to go back to the Middle Ages for that!).

Anyway. That's the institution.

The problem I have with the personal god is, it makes no sense to me. If there is a god that created what the Hubble Telescope has shown us, the vastness of an incredible universe, then I have a very hard time believing such a god could really care whether a human on this earth kneels in prayer, or prostrates himself. I can't see this god caring if you sing or dance or go to movies. I just can't believe the pettiness of religion. So if I can't believe in that kind of god, what's left? Something like The Force?

And apparently all those years of watching Star Trek episodes (not the original series) had an effect, too, which I simply didn't realize at the time. The questions that are posed and dealt with ... I could probably wramble on for awhile but you get the idea. If god is something like the force, then it doesn't matter if we believe in him/it or not.

Either way, religion is a goner in my book! Ha ha ha
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #1486
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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And Sophie, I believe the Bible and other holy books were written to keep people in some kind of order.

I think it's one group's explanation for how we got where we are.

The greeks had many gods to explain things. Now they are down to just the one, right?

That's why I like to say I just believe in one less god than most people.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #1487
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StampinWrose, I swear, you need to get outta my head!!! I feel exactly the same way and you say it so well! I say it all the time, if there IS a God, He does not care what building you worship in, what songs you sing or if you go trick-or-treating on Halloween! I think it is just ridiculous that there are people out there who really think someone is sitting on a big throne saying "Sally did not go to church today because she was out drinking last night! BANISH HER! MUAHAHAHAHAHA" Then, there are people who, in their heart of hearts believe that if you don't go to THEIR church then you won't go to THEIR Heaven! Oh, you might get into Heaven, the outskirts, but to get into Heaven, the big city, you have to go to our church and become one of us.

My husband says that religion was created to give people a conscience and to make people feel better about people who have died. In times of unrest, something needs to be done to get people on the right track again. So...Do these things and you will be considered a good person; Good people go to Heaven and bad people don't. If you are good and go to heaven, other good people will be there to greet you and blah blah blah, y'all know the rest.

I used to liken the big guy to George Burns in Oh, God! the movie. Comes down to earth and picks out some regular guy and tells him "Hey, things are a mess. This is what needs to happen to clean it all up." sort of thing. Not a powerful image that appears and tells someone that there needs to be a new religion. I don't think that was how it happened with Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Smith or Moon...I don't think it happened to Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or Jim Bakker and I don't think it happens to people today. Yeesh, I feel myself getting a tad bit hostile...perhaps a glass of wine will help Anyone got some water? teeheehee
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:40 PM   #1488
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I know I've shared this before, but one of my friends said it gives her comfort to think of her parents looking down on her, watching her.

I said, "when you're sitting on the pot?"

I mean, I understand the vague feeling, but THINK about it. Then it makes no sense! Dead people watching us shower? Have sex? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.....
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #1489
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Here is my theory as to why we have religions. I think that all religions developed to satisfy three philosophical needs. One is to know about the world around us which is an intellectual need, one to help assuage the grief we feel when someone dies which is an emotional need, and the third is to satisfy the need for justice when unfair things happen.
A 'god' answers all three. God (or gods) created the world, you don't die, you go to heaven, and god/s punish those who do bad things.
I see myself as intellectually superior to religious people because although I have the need to understand the world I do it through science, and I cope with grief and injustices without the need of the crutch of religion.
Stephanie
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #1490
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Intellectually superior? I don't know that I would go that far but I guess I can understand why one could think that. I think that in many cases, it is not intellect but maybe innocence? I am trying to come up with a word that is not so condescending. I think that many religious people just don't know any different. One of the things that religions are really good at is separating the flock. They publicly teach acceptance of all mankind but then privately encourage followers to only befriend eachother. Sort of a "Help everyone, but help your own first" kind of attitude. I mean, look at it in terms of communities; there are neighborhoods in just about every city and state where the majority of people who live there are Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, Amish...the list goes on and on. People think they are somehow better off if they surround themselves with people who believe the same things they do. By doing that, they limit themselves to knowing only what their church wants them to know about the world around them. Churches like to discourage free thinking...if you think for yourself, you might mess up and not get into heaven--the ultimate reward. When you spend your whole life being told that your own thoughts are destructive, it's not easy to change.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #1491
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There is also the need for men to feel superiour to (and control and condemn) women, and for people in general to feel superiour to (and control and condemn) gays. A God also answers those needs.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #1492
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I don't need god's help to feel superior to people, just sayin'
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:32 PM   #1493
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I don't need god's help to feel superior to people, just sayin'
You crack me up
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #1494
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Intellectually superior? I don't know that I would go that far but I guess I can understand why one could think that. I think that in many cases, it is not intellect but maybe innocence? I am trying to come up with a word that is not so condescending. I think that many religious people just don't know any different. One of the things that religions are really good at is separating the flock. They publicly teach acceptance of all mankind but then privately encourage followers to only befriend eachother. Sort of a "Help everyone, but help your own first" kind of attitude. I mean, look at it in terms of communities; there are neighborhoods in just about every city and state where the majority of people who live there are Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, Amish...the list goes on and on. People think they are somehow better off if they surround themselves with people who believe the same things they do. By doing that, they limit themselves to knowing only what their church wants them to know about the world around them. Churches like to discourage free thinking...if you think for yourself, you might mess up and not get into heaven--the ultimate reward. When you spend your whole life being told that your own thoughts are destructive, it's not easy to change.
Okay, I must say that I would agree with them here. I think I would be better off if I were surrounded by pro-gay-marriage, pro-choice people (I wouldn't even mind if these were RELIGIOUS pro-gay, pro-choice people). Although, I don't mean my neighbours here. I mean my family, since I interact with them more than I interact with my neighbours. I also think I would be better off if all the anti-gay, pro-life people went off and lived in their own area - and had their own laws. Then all the gays and liberal women could come live in MY area and they'd all have the right to marry and have access to safe abortions, no matter what.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #1495
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyMel2 View Post
Intellectually superior? I don't know that I would go that far but I guess I can understand why one could think that. I think that in many cases, it is not intellect but maybe innocence? I am trying to come up with a word that is not so condescending. I think that many religious people just don't know any different. One of the things that religions are really good at is separating the flock. They publicly teach acceptance of all mankind but then privately encourage followers to only befriend eachother. Sort of a "Help everyone, but help your own first" kind of attitude. I mean, look at it in terms of communities; there are neighborhoods in just about every city and state where the majority of people who live there are Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, Amish...the list goes on and on. People think they are somehow better off if they surround themselves with people who believe the same things they do. By doing that, they limit themselves to knowing only what their church wants them to know about the world around them. Churches like to discourage free thinking...if you think for yourself, you might mess up and not get into heaven--the ultimate reward. When you spend your whole life being told that your own thoughts are destructive, it's not easy to change.
But you say that many religious people just don't know the difference. I would argue that this is because they haven't thought about it enough or are unwilling to consider the option that there is no god.

Of course we have had some extremely intelligent philosophers through the ages who have tried to explain/prove the existence of god.

As for separating the groups, this was effective probably until about 40-50 years ago. Nowadays, not so much. Especially with the internet for those who start to wonder and find out they are not alone.

I do find it amusing that you are trying not to be condescending, when I've found that so many religious people have no problem being condescending to non believers.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:56 PM   #1496
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Hmm, I don't know how to quote 2 posts at once! Soooooooo....about surrounding yourself with people who all believe the same thing you do: I can totally understand preferring to be around people who think like we each do. I guess what I was trying to say was that if I am hanging out with like thinkers, it is because I want to, not because I am being told to. I am not AFRAID of those who think differently and I don't think that there are dire consequences if I DO hang out with people who think differently. I guess that was what I was trying to say.

On the condescending thing...I guess it comes from being spoken "down to" so many times. I don't like that so I try hard not to do it to anyone else. I sometimes fumble my words when I am trying to get my point across and people take that to mean I am not a very "bright" person. I am actually a pretty smart lady; just not as confident as I would like to be.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #1497
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I just wanted to say I didn't come to non-belief through any process that involved hate. I recognize the bad things done in the name of religion, and I'm appalled by it. But I didn't hate the churches I went to, or my fellow congregants. There were good people and not-so-good, just like everywhere.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:17 PM   #1498
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Quote:
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Hmm, I don't know how to quote 2 posts at once!
Usually I'll hit the quote button on one post, then edit out the text I don't want to quote.

To post another quote in the same message, surround it with left bracket quote right bracket, enter the text you want to quote, then follow it with left bracket /quote right bracket.

HTH.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:37 PM   #1499
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Default Vatican Crackdown on Leadership Conference of Women Religious

I was born and raised Catholic but have been pretty much agnostic and boarding on atheist for most of my teen and adult life. The current Vatican crack down and the 50,000+ American nuns who are part of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious has be SO riled up. These old men need to get a grip on reality if they plan to salvage what's left of their fold. The following was taken for a USA Today article.

"The Vatican announcement said that "while there has been a great deal of work on the part of LCWR promoting issues of social justice in harmony with the church's social doctrine, it is silent on the right to life from conception to natural death."
It added that "crucial" issues like "the church's biblical view of family life and human sexuality, are not part of the LCWR agenda in a way that promotes church teaching. Moreover, occasional public statements by the LCWR that disagree with or challenge positions taken by the bishops, who are the church's authentic teachers of faith and morals, are not compatible with its purpose." "


The church's "authentic teachers of faith and morals" need to really ask themselves WWJD. I just become more and more cynical with every news report that I read. Why is there such a stretch between Christianity and those living a Christ-like life. Jesus (whether historical or alegorical) was the ultimate liberal and if the LCWR was promoting social justice issues important to women and familes, they seem to be following a much for accurate moral compass.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:40 PM   #1500
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Have you all caught the story in the news right now about Dan Savage? I don't see anything wrong with what he said but it sure is stirring up some controversy!!
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:52 PM   #1501
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Google to the rescue.

Quote:
Dan Savage offended some Christian teens when he told them "We can learn to ignore the bull---t in the Bible about gay people."

Savage made his comments during a speech at the National High School Journalist Conference in Seattle.

After many students walked out of the speech, one of whom appeared to be crying, Savage said, 的t痴 funny, as someone who痴 on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back.
Dan Savage Speech Controversy: 'It Gets Better' Creator Offends Christian Students

There's a bit more about reaction at the link.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:13 PM   #1502
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Re: Dan Savage --
I don't think I would ever use profanity in a talk with high school students. I wish he could have made his (entirely valid) points without profanity.

I'm shocked at the number of students who thought it was okay to walk out, but we didn't see the other sessions. At some conferences I've attended people go in and out of sessions based on their level of interest in the subject. I've walked out of a session within a few minutes quite a few times.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:38 PM   #1503
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Default MPR segment: From Minister to Atheist: A story of losing fait

I will have to catch up on the comments made by Dan Savage as I didn't get a chance to hear it first hand.

I did listen to a great segment on MN Public Radio today about a woman minister who "came out" as an atheist. Facinating bit.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:58 PM   #1504
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I will have to catch up on the comments made by Dan Savage as I didn't get a chance to hear it first hand.

I did listen to a great segment on MN Public Radio today about a woman minister who "came out" as an atheist. Facinating bit.
Wow. That's really moving, at least for me. I understand how thinking can just cause that moment. That eureka! moment. The sudden realization - I remember having butterflies. A small part of me thinking, well, if I'm wrong, I could get hit by lightning! (Okay I never lose my sense of humor!)

What a shame how people treated her. Yes - as though tho she turned from a "good guy" into a "bad guy" suddenly. You treat people the same but it doesn't matter.

And I loved the last bit - does she miss god. No. I don't either. But yeah the music, funny we were just talking about that. I LOVE me some Christmas Carols.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:28 AM   #1505
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I LOVE me some Christmas Carols.
I am not embarassed to say that I watch The Preachers Wife every year (the remake...with Denzel) and while I am in the kitchen cooking, I throw an "Amen Brothah" out to the living room between songs Gospel does put me in a good mood
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #1506
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The current Vatican crack down and the 50,000+ American nuns who are part of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious has be SO riled up. These old men need to get a grip on reality if they plan to salvage what's left of their fold. .

Me too! I think they look like complete and utter fools, and I wonder, "what's wrong with you that you think ANY of this is the right thing to do, on any level other than a really ugly one?"

Anyway, I haven't been around for a while, but I came to let you know about a book I'm reading: Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists, by Dan Barker. A few years ago, someone here (Wrose, probably) mentioned a book by the same guy called Losing Faith in Faith, and I've looked for a copy ever since, but I had no luck. The book I'm reading came out in 2008--not sure why it hasn't crossed my radar until now. It's an update of his earlier book. What I like about this, in comparison to some of the other atheist books out there by Dawkins, Hitchins, etc., is that Barker comes out of the evangelical movement.

And to answer the question from a few pages ago .... yes, the more education I had (both formal and through my own reading), and the more exposure to other ideas I got, the less I believed in God. So I can see why education and letting your kids interact with non-believers is scary to some religious people. In my case, I had serious philosophical doubts back to before I was in kindergarten, and all through my life, but I wanted God to be true. It finally got to a point though where, in order to believe in Christianity in particular, I would have to give myself over to faith on too many issues. I was prepared to use faith for a handful of other wise nonsensical things. But it's like a water balloon with a very small hole. Okay, I can plug that. And the second, and the third . . . but hundreds? The theory doesn't hold water, as the saying goes.
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #1507
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In her Catholic high school, she has to take religion every year. At the beginning of the year when she found out she got Mr. Chapman, she freaked out because she'd heard how "hardcore Catholic" he is . . . . by the end of September, and many, many conversations about her religion class, I said to her "you don't hate Mr. Chapman as much as you think you would, do you?" Turns out he's a philosophy major, so he's thrown some pretty challenging stuff at them. I went to meet him during parent-teacher conferences, and the guy is like 26 years old (I imagined some stern old man). He says he doesn't want people to consider his class "an easy A" so he makes them work. Some of the stuff she's does is stuff I did in university (this is a grade 10 class).

Anyway, for the first 5 months of the year she was getting 98%. Now she's dropped to 94% after her father and I said that it wasn't really the area to focus on considering universities don't consider religion grades for admission. So she brought her math up to a B+. But Mr. Chapman LOVES her--because she's engaged, and comes to class with a mitt-full of papers she's printed out from the internet that she says "what about this?" I think she has a future as a litigation lawyer.

It's been an interesting year.
I just wanted to update you on my daughter and Mr. Chapman. He's announced that this is his last year teaching high school, and he's going into computer science (I think she said he's going back to school, but I'm not sure). When she told me, I laughed and told her it was her fault and she'd broken him! She just scowled at me. Anyway, he's a nice man, but I'm glad he won't be teaching teens these misguided unhelpful ideas anymore and will use his obvious intelligence for something less harmful. (This is Vancouver, not Texas, so I'm not worried about his reemergence as a politician!)
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Old 05-05-2012, 07:52 PM   #1508
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It finally got to a point though where, in order to believe in Christianity in particular, I would have to give myself over to faith on too many issues. I was prepared to use faith for a handful of other wise nonsensical things. But it's like a water balloon with a very small hole. Okay, I can plug that. And the second, and the third . . . but hundreds? The theory doesn't hold water, as the saying goes.
Great metaphor! TFS
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #1509
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Me too! I think they look like complete and utter fools, and I wonder, "what's wrong with you that you think ANY of this is the right thing to do, on any level other than a really ugly one?"

Anyway, I haven't been around for a while, but I came to let you know about a book I'm reading: Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists, by Dan Barker. A few years ago, someone here (Wrose, probably) mentioned a book by the same guy called Losing Faith in Faith, and I've looked for a copy ever since, but I had no luck. The book I'm reading came out in 2008--not sure why it hasn't crossed my radar until now. It's an update of his earlier book. What I like about this, in comparison to some of the other atheist books out there by Dawkins, Hitchins, etc., is that Barker comes out of the evangelical movement.

And to answer the question from a few pages ago .... yes, the more education I had (both formal and through my own reading), and the more exposure to other ideas I got, the less I believed in God. So I can see why education and letting your kids interact with non-believers is scary to some religious people. In my case, I had serious philosophical doubts back to before I was in kindergarten, and all through my life, but I wanted God to be true. It finally got to a point though where, in order to believe in Christianity in particular, I would have to give myself over to faith on too many issues. I was prepared to use faith for a handful of other wise nonsensical things. But it's like a water balloon with a very small hole. Okay, I can plug that. And the second, and the third . . . but hundreds? The theory doesn't hold water, as the saying goes.
.
Freedom From Religion Foundation in Madison WI is Dan Barkers home base. He is a pretty good debater since he knows the bible inside and out. It is interesting to read a book by someone who was so devout and ended up atheist.

The thing with the nuns shouldn't really surprise anyone but it seems like major cognitive dissidence to me -

Nuns working for social justice = Bad?

Someone pointed out that the church is the longest lived, currently existing institution. That alone should make people worry. This article and this made me realize the church has never cared about the poor. They only care about expanding their power. Remember Liberation Theology, Wrose? Why are they exhorting Catholics to protest contraception but not go out and Occupy Wall Street?
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:08 PM   #1510
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Default Analytical Thinking

I don't think I became an atheist because I started thinking differently, I started being more analytical, more skeptical after I found there were small pockets of reform among different Catholics. I started looking for any feminist leanings by people or groups of Catholics, then started to read more about what is really true about the bible (not much ) and then found Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins and I was done.

I don't think I was angry at god but at myself and my parents. Of course all this took place after my mother had died. She would have argued ferociously. If she wasn't already dead, my becoming atheist would probably have killed her!
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #1511
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sheesh you atheists sure talk about religion a lot LOL

I'm sitting here catching up crafting for my Avon Walk fundraiser trying not to be aware that there are people in the world who think I'm not a good person simply because I don't believe the same stories they do.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:51 PM   #1512
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sheesh you atheists sure talk about religion a lot LOL

I'm sitting here catching up crafting for my Avon Walk fundraiser trying not to be aware that there are people in the world who think I'm not a good person simply because I don't believe the same stories they do.
Ha! I guess You can take the girl out of the church but ...
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:44 PM   #1513
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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.
Freedom From Religion Foundation in Madison WI is Dan Barkers home base. He is a pretty good debater since he knows the bible inside and out. It is interesting to read a book by someone who was so devout and ended up atheist.

The thing with the nuns shouldn't really surprise anyone but it seems like major cognitive dissidence to me -

Nuns working for social justice = Bad?

Someone pointed out that the church is the longest lived, currently existing institution. That alone should make people worry. This article and this made me realize the church has never cared about the poor. They only care about expanding their power. Remember Liberation Theology, Wrose? Why are they exhorting Catholics to protest contraception but not go out and Occupy Wall Street?
Wow, I heard of it but don't remember the term. But yeah that's what I was vaguely involved in for a few years, in the very early seventies. I didn't know all that other stuff, but it did seem that things needed fixing. The one priest that was very involved with the youth of the area was chastised to me by my uncle, a priest, who thought this other priest was wasting his time by not getting a parish. Yeah this other priest was wasting his time visiting the inmates in the local jail, spending time with the youth, working with the poor.

*sigh*

My uncle was more business man than priest. He was not a bad person, but he spent his time running a parish, not ministering to the poor and disadvantaged.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:28 PM   #1514
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:57 AM   #1515
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I LOVE me some Christmas Carols.
I'm a Jewish atheist and I LOVE christmas music too! I also like all the trappings of the holiday...the trees, the decorations, the good will, etc.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #1516
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I'm a Jewish atheist and I LOVE christmas music too! I also like all the trappings of the holiday...the trees, the decorations, the good will, etc.
Me too! We seem to collectively go into a slightly better place that time of year. And yeah, all the decorations, regardless of their belief of origin, are so beautiful...
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:52 PM   #1517
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I'm a Jewish atheist and I LOVE christmas music too! I also like all the trappings of the holiday...the trees, the decorations, the good will, etc.
When I was a senior in HS I went to a Jewish friend's birthday party which was held at a restaurant. It was December and the music played over the loud speaker was all Xmas carols. We were all talking about which carols we liked when I realized that most of these girls were Jewish and had to listen to this music so much they knew the carols as well as I did.

That was sort of an A-Ha moment for me as far as what it's like to be a minority culture in this country.

You don't seem to have been harmed by being drenched in Xtian culture growing up, so that's a good thing! LOL How did you feel about it when you were a kid? Was your family religious?
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:19 AM   #1518
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Didn't know Charles Schulz was agnostic.
Dan Kimball: Vintage Faith: Snoopy's Insight to Theology

Think that would get published today?
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:03 PM   #1519
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Default Enough with the false religions already!

Charles Worley, North Carolina pastor, faces backlash, outrage over call for gays to be put behind electric fence

This story and video is so very disturbing and such an abuse of power in the name of God. Horrendous! It makes me so glad to be able to follow my own sense of right and wrong and not have to rely on a "messenger" to tell me what to think. Not only were the Pastor's words inflamatory and disgusting, but he may have broken the law.

From a Huffington Post article

The New Civil Rights Movement's David Badash also noted, "Like all churches, Pastor Worley’s Providence Road Baptist Church doesn’t pay taxes. And by advocating for a specific political candidate he could (and should) lose his tax-exempt status."
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:23 PM   #1520
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Charles Worley, North Carolina pastor, faces backlash, outrage over call for gays to be put behind electric fence

This story and video is so very disturbing and such an abuse of power in the name of God. Horrendous! It makes me so glad to be able to follow my own sense of right and wrong and not have to rely on a "messenger" to tell me what to think. Not only were the Pastor's words inflamatory and disgusting, but he may have broken the law.

From a Huffington Post article

The New Civil Rights Movement's David Badash also noted, "Like all churches, Pastor Worley’s Providence Road Baptist Church doesn’t pay taxes. And by advocating for a specific political candidate he could (and should) lose his tax-exempt status."
I didn't even want to watch the video. Way to be a Xtian, Pastor!
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