In the Forums

Register

Today's Posts

Search


Get the Weekly
Inkling
newsletter





Previous Issues

Get Social

Like Splitcoaststampers on Facebook Follow Splitcoaststampers on Twitter Watch Splitcoaststampers Videos on YouTube

Sponsored Ads


 
Splitcoaststampers.com - the world's #1 papercrafting community
You're currently viewing Splitcoaststampers as a GUEST. We pride ourselves on being great hosts, but guests have limited access to some of our incredible artwork, our lively forums and other super cool features of the site! You can join our incredible papercrafting community at NO COST. So what are you waiting for?

Join the party at Splitcoaststampers today!

Like Tree156Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2012, 07:44 PM   #1321
Die Cut Diva
 
Makalah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 3,676
Thumbs up

Just saw this on Facebook and wanted to share




Obama on the importance of "religiously-motivated" people with principles that apply universally, not just to their religious views. yes yes yes!
Makalah is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:22 PM   #1322
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suber View Post
AMEN. (Is it OK to say that?) I totally agree.
Amen and pass the applesauce!!!

LOL

And welcome!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:23 PM   #1323
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlysonRR View Post
Coincidentally, there was a post on Friendly Atheist relating to this.

After Surviving a Car Accident, God Doesn’t Need a Thank-You | Friendly Atheist

I agree with Hemant - it's a little shocking to read an account of an accident in which there is no mention of god because it's so commmon...
Excellent! Thanks for sharing that.

And the Golden Globe thing, I didn't watch them. (Don't usually....)
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:33 PM   #1324
Glitter Guru
 
AlysonRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makalah View Post
Just saw this on Facebook and wanted to share




Obama on the importance of "religiously-motivated" people with principles that apply universally, not just to their religious views. yes yes yes!
Nice quote! Thanks for sharing.
__________________
“My dear, all life is a series of problems which we must try and solve. First one, then the next, and the next, until at last, we die.” --- Dowager Countess Violet Grantham
AlysonRR is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:45 PM   #1325
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

I read this in a magazine:

"To most Christians, the Bible is like a software licence. Nobody actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click 'I agree'." @almightygod on Twitter.

This sounds a fair assessment.

Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 11:30 PM   #1326
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
I've been desensitized. I no longer care if someone thanks God for anything and everything. I've heard my mom thank God for the water she uses to clean the floor. I figure it's just their way of showing their gratitude for whatever they are grateful for. I know when some people thank God for their health (or whatever) it may seem that God is withholding His blessings (or whatever) from someone else with worse health and so on. But then since the people with worse health are also likely to be Christians (since I have the impression that 95% of America is Christian) - I figure I'll leave it up to them to sort it out - usually they thank God for something else.

I'm probably being naive, but I don't think anyone would care (any more than they currently do) if Tebow was Muslim. I mean, instead of the Christian community praising him, it would be the Muslim community praising him and then maybe holding him up as an example of a moderate Muslim; one who's not bent on terrorism. The same people who are criticising him now for openly displaying his beliefs would probably also still criticize him if he were Muslim (wouldn't they? Maybe not as hard, since Islam is not the main religion here). I'm sure in France the critism would be about the same, since over there I have the impression that it's 50% Christians and 50% Muslims. But over here, it's still a very large Christian majority.
Oh yeah, you've been desensitized.

It would be way different if he were Muslim.

The thing is, we who are not believers should not have to completely accept all this god language. I don't think we need to be obnoxious about it, but friends - they can be reminded. If you have a friend or correspondent and they KNOW that you are an atheist and say they are okay with it, would you not be comfortable if they kept forgetting and telling you things as tho you believed? You would be sitting there constantly reminded that they believe in something that you see the same as the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

I think if you choose to be okay with it in your own family, that's fine, and probably the more peaceful approach, as long as they know you aren't joining them. And I think a lot of atheists just aren't confrontational about it. They simply don't believe. Why fuss about it. So we let a lot go.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 11:47 PM   #1327
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 18,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
Oh yeah, you've been desensitized.

It would be way different if he were Muslim.

The thing is, we who are not believers should not have to completely accept all this god language. I don't think we need to be obnoxious about it, but friends - they can be reminded. If you have a friend or correspondent and they KNOW that you are an atheist and say they are okay with it, would you not be comfortable if they kept forgetting and telling you things as tho you believed? You would be sitting there constantly reminded that they believe in something that you see the same as the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

I think if you choose to be okay with it in your own family, that's fine, and probably the more peaceful approach, as long as they know you aren't joining them. And I think a lot of atheists just aren't confrontational about it. They simply don't believe. Why fuss about it. So we let a lot go.
Okay now, THAT is different - if they kept telling me things as though I believed... I'm okay with them constantly bringing up God (like thanking God for everything). But see, every time anyone even HINTS that they think that I might be a believer, believe me, I set them straight. Don't care if they're okay with that or not; don't care if they're family, friend, or correspondant. One thing that makes my skin crawl is having anyone think I am a Christian; I have such horrendous negative connotations with that word. It is a visceral reaction that I just speak up without thinking and blurt out that I am NOT a Christian.

But see, if they are just bringing up God all the time, reminding me that THEY believe, and they don't give me the impression that they've somehow actually FORGOTTEN that I'm not a believer, then that's fine with me.
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 04:59 PM   #1328
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Read in an article (from a New Zealand newspaper) about infidelity:

"Figures collected from the infidelity website AshleyMadison.com have profiled the New Zealanders most likely to sign up.
They are most likely to be a Christian (58.7 per cent), support the National Party (33.3 per cent) and have had two extramarital affairs (13.6 per cent)."

Here is the link if you want to read more:
Infidelity: it's a right-wing, meat-eaters' thing - Life & Style - NZ Herald News
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:25 PM   #1329
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 18,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkes View Post
Read in an article (from a New Zealand newspaper) about infidelity:

"Figures collected from the infidelity website AshleyMadison.com have profiled the New Zealanders most likely to sign up.
They are most likely to be a Christian (58.7 per cent), support the National Party (33.3 per cent) and have had two extramarital affairs (13.6 per cent)."

Here is the link if you want to read more:
Infidelity: it's a right-wing, meat-eaters' thing - Life & Style - NZ Herald News
Stephanie
Isn't that pretty normal? I mean if roughly the same percentage ("just over half", according to Demographics of New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) identify themselves as Christian in the general population, then it's no surprise that the same percentage would exist in a population of cheaters?

I know a bunch of people who have cheated, and nearly all of them are Christians. But I think that's 'cause nearly all of the people I know ARE Christians (identify themselves as Christians).
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:49 PM   #1330
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
Isn't that pretty normal? I mean if roughly the same percentage ("just over half", according to Demographics of New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) identify themselves as Christian in the general population, then it's no surprise that the same percentage would exist in a population of cheaters?

I know a bunch of people who have cheated, and nearly all of them are Christians. But I think that's 'cause nearly all of the people I know ARE Christians (identify themselves as Christians).
Normal behaviour, yes, but Christians claim to be morally superior than athiests so this should be embarrassing to them. How does believing in God make you a better person when you succumb to the same temptations? A rhetorical question as I have never felt Christians to be morally superior!
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 09:00 PM   #1331
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 18,453
Default

Nah...they won't be embarrassed by it. The Christians who are not cheating can always say "those aren't REAL Christians". Or, they can point out that at the end of the cheating, the Christians can repent and ask for forgiveness (thus maybe retaining their "moral superiority"?).
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 09:57 PM   #1332
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Christians like to put themselves in a no-lose position, and do pretty well with that.

Not that it makes sense, but hey, so what.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 10:24 PM   #1333
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
Nah...they won't be embarrassed by it. The Christians who are not cheating can always say "those aren't REAL Christians". Or, they can point out that at the end of the cheating, the Christians can repent and ask for forgiveness (thus maybe retaining their "moral superiority"?).
You are right - sigh!
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 04:34 AM   #1334
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 18,453
Default

Stampin' Wrose, look what I found!!
br To Boldly Go Where No Teapot Has Gone Before by raduse - Cards and Paper Crafts at Splitcoaststampers
Isn't that the coolest? A Star Trek card!!
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #1335
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine View Post
Stampin' Wrose, look what I found!!
br To Boldly Go Where No Teapot Has Gone Before by raduse - Cards and Paper Crafts at Splitcoaststampers
Isn't that the coolest? A Star Trek card!!
Yes it is! Thanks!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 08:05 AM   #1336
Polyshrink Goddess
 
raquelita_uno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rural MN
Posts: 666
Default

Read an interesting article today on MSNBC regarding the Reason Rally to be held on the National Mall in DC on March 24th. Kind of wish I could attend as an agnostic totally supporting a secular America.

Atheists bill big names for 'coming out' party in Capitol
__________________
Rachel Schott

As my best friend says, "Stamping....it's cheaper than therapy" to which I add, "Not by much".

My mom was the proud recipient of my first handmade card. Cost $200.

~My Gallery~
raquelita_uno is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 02:45 PM   #1337
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Rachel, thanks! I had not heard about it. I went to their main page too.

And Adam Savage is going to speak! (Mythbusters)

*cool*
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 11:06 PM   #1338
Glitter Guru
 
AlysonRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,281
Default

It's rare that a hero is identified as an atheist. This week, an atheist heroine died.

Dr. Tina Strobos died this week.

She saved the lives of dozens of Jews during the Holocaust from her Amsterdam home. She arranged for fake passports and transportation. She was arrested. Her house was searched. She risked her life to help people.

And she was an atheist.

Tina Strobos, Dutch student who rescued 100 Jews during the Holocaust, dies at 91 - The Washington Post

The article is probably locked behind a login, but I was touched to read of this woman's life. She did what she thought was right. Fascinating life.

Quote:
Dr. Strobos said that she was arrested nine times and that her house was searched eight times.

“I never believed in God,” she once said, “but I believed in the sacredness of life.”
__________________
“My dear, all life is a series of problems which we must try and solve. First one, then the next, and the next, until at last, we die.” --- Dowager Countess Violet Grantham
AlysonRR is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 04:04 PM   #1339
Glitter Guru
 
sma499's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,431
Default

Alyson, thanks for the article. I was able to read it without logging in. What an amazing story and an amazing woman. To think, she was only 20 when she started with the resistance. So many have her to thank for their survival.
__________________
Sharon
sma499 is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 09:21 PM   #1340
Polyshrink Goddess
 
pattyjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 661
Default

I was wonder if there was any way to find out what the political split is between agnostic and athieststs
__________________

PAT
pattyjane is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2012, 11:36 PM   #1341
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattyjane View Post
I was wonder if there was any way to find out what the political split is between agnostic and athieststs
I am a bit confused - I thought the difference was ideological rather than political. Or am I missing a context here?
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 12:19 AM   #1342
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

The only thing I could say with some certainty is that nobody in this thread would be part of the "Religious Right" which is all Republicans.

The Republicans do seem to be very religious at the moment. But until this election, I can say I have supported the occasional Republican candidate as well as Democrat. I don't think a candidate's religion should even be talked about, quite frankly.

It really bothers me that so many Americans are imposing a "religious test" on candidates. Our founding fathers specifically acted to prevent this at the govt. level, but obviously any individual is free to care about it at a personal level.

If the Republican party manages to break free from the control of the extremists and become a party of fiscal conservatism, then one's religion or lack thereof would become, again, irrelevant.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 09:38 AM   #1343
Stazon Splitcoast
 
SophieLaFontaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: my heart remains in France
Posts: 18,453
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattyjane View Post
I was wonder if there was any way to find out what the political split is between agnostic and athieststs
Here:
Who Are America

At the end of page 36, with an accompanying chart on page 38. This was written in 2006, though the information on the chart seems to date back to 2001. Back then, it seems like about 40 percent of both atheists AND agnostics were Independents, and then about 30 percent of them are Democrats, and about 14 percent are Republicans.

It compares a third group to atheists and agnostics. The third group is people who answered "none" to the question "What is your religion, if any?".

I'm not very good at searching. Perhaps there are more updated figures elsewhere.
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
SophieLaFontaine is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 08:07 PM   #1344
Polyshrink Goddess
 
raquelita_uno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rural MN
Posts: 666
Default rewriting Ohio's exit polls

I realize that MSNBC is often lampooned (discredited) for a liberal bias, but this segment by Lawerence O'Donnell is worth watching.

Rewriting Ohio's Exit Polls
__________________
Rachel Schott

As my best friend says, "Stamping....it's cheaper than therapy" to which I add, "Not by much".

My mom was the proud recipient of my first handmade card. Cost $200.

~My Gallery~
raquelita_uno is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 10:44 PM   #1345
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Oooooh, LOVED the ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Rachel!
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 09:40 PM   #1346
Mad Swapper
 
nickelini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,748
Default

It is worth watching, and I completely agree with the message.... but the question was "does it matter to you that a candidate shares your religious belief?" Ah, yeah, doesn't that mean I won't vote for Rick Santorum? Can't an atheist answer it the same way as a Christian? How about a Muslim? I mean, if someone asked me that, I'd say "yes, she was the least like a religious nutjob" (It's late, and we're on that daylight savings times sleep deprivation thing, so I may be missing some obvious point.). Thank Zeus that in Canada this hasn't been much of an issue. I hope your infection doesn't seep northwards.
__________________
~ Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers ~
(attributed to Socrates 470-399 BC)

View My Gallery
nickelini is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 10:26 PM   #1347
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

LOL You want we should keep our nutty germs?

I seriously would love to go into an election not knowing what religion any of the candidates were.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 05:46 AM   #1348
Cardstock Collector
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9
Default

What an interesting site. I came here to get help for a paper making project involving waterfast inks and stamps, and then I run into this thread. Quite unexpected. I'm not an atheist, agnostic, believer, or anything. I think when you look through binoculars you see what a binocular can see, when you look through a telescope you see what a telescope can see, when you look through your own eyes you see what your eyes can see. I wouldn't want to give up any one of those visions. Just so with different belief systems, they seem to allow you to see things you wouldn't see without them. Mostly I guess I'm willing to believe in anything that is willing to believe in me. But I try not to have arguments with folks who have a strong opinion one way or the other. After all, they could be right. I'm a little disturbed by folks who claim the US is a christian nation, and then are quick to go to war, and to withhold aid and shelter from immigrants, and denigrate the poor. I was raised Lutheran and don't recall any stories about Christ doing any of these things. As for politics, if Rick Santorum acted like Christ, I'd be very tempted to vote for him. Or Michelle Bachman, for that matter. When Newt Gingrich goes into a church and turns over the tables of the money lenders and throws them out into the street, I'm his guy.
JulesG is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #1349
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Hi and welcome to SCS and this thread. I also believe that you see what you see, so if someone claims that something you can't see exists (like a god) then I need evidence for that existence, and for that reason I call myself an atheist. I also believe it is up to people to prove that a god exists, not up to me to prove it doesn't. To my mind the most disturbing thing about the Christian religion is the way the atrocious behaviour you mentioned (going to war, witholding aid and shelter from immigrants, denigrating the poor, not to mention persecution of minority groups) can be justified by those calling themselves Christian. I am glad New Zealand, where I live, is a secular country where religion and polititics are separate.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 12:33 PM   #1350
Polyshrink Goddess
 
raquelita_uno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rural MN
Posts: 666
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkes View Post
I am glad New Zealand, where I live, is a secular country where religion and polititics are separate.
Stephanie

Stephanie- I am so curious what a secular country actually looks like since I feel in many areas of the US (for sure in my small, rural, midwest area) we are not at all part of a secular nation. Do you have debates about prayer in school, ten commandments posted outside of public buildings, whether to say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? I swear here in the US we LOOK for ways to find division and to draw lines in the sand. I have traveled quite extensively but only to Spanish-speaking countries and in those areas it is often assumed that you are Christian. I haven't witnessed public debates about religion, but again it is assumed that most are Christian (I want to clarify ... in my experiences). In New Zealand as a whole, do individuals really keep their religious preferences to themselves? I sound so juvenile in asking this question, but it's such a facinating concept.
__________________
Rachel Schott

As my best friend says, "Stamping....it's cheaper than therapy" to which I add, "Not by much".

My mom was the proud recipient of my first handmade card. Cost $200.

~My Gallery~

Last edited by raquelita_uno; 03-14-2012 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: typo
raquelita_uno is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 02:49 PM   #1351
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Hi Rachel and thank you for your interest in our country. Yes we do keep our religious beliefs to ourselves. For example if I were to meet someone for the first time, I could ask them what they did for a living or where they lived, but not if they were Christian or what church they went to. That would be considered inappropriate conversation. Even people I know well I wouldn't ask if they were Christian as that is none of my business. Religion is kept out of politics and our educations system so there are no prayers in school (or before sports games) and evolution is taught. No bible quote would be put on a public building and no one cares if you say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. In terms of our population (which is just over 4 million) about half called themselves Christian on our last census but only 15% actually attend church. About a third of us claim no religious affiliation. I guess what it comes down to is that in NZ, there is a country-wide attitude that one’s religion is not considered as important as how one actually behaves, and that means no religion has any political clout. Hope this helps explain my comment. You are right – it is a fascinating subject!
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 10:17 PM   #1352
Mad Swapper
 
nickelini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,748
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampin Wrose View Post
LOL You want we should keep our nutty germs?

I seriously would love to go into an election not knowing what religion any of the candidates were.
Really, PLEASE keep your nutty germs. GW politics are seeping into Canadian politics--the scary thing is our prime minister will stay in power as long as people keep voting him in--but it`s very un-Canadian, so I hope and trust it fails. But who thought the things that have happened in the US political scene would have happened in 2012. I mean, it`s come to a point that I log in to the internet every day to see what new wacky law has been inacted in the US that intrudes on the rights and dignity of women, and has a `so-called Christian moral principle behind it.

Generally in Canada, we have no clue as to a politician`s religious values. I sincerely hope that doesn`t change, but I am on my watch. I think it would help if we could physically cut our border and float apart.
__________________
~ Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers ~
(attributed to Socrates 470-399 BC)

View My Gallery
nickelini is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 11:57 PM   #1353
Mad Swapper
 
nickelini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,748
Default

My 15 year old daughter just asked me a question, and I thought I`d best bring it to the experts here.

Background: I was raised anibaptist, which is sort of protestant. My husband is Italian, so is a Christmas-Easter Catholic. Due to situations, we started our kids out in Catholic school, and I planned to be done after grade 7. However, this daughter decided to go on to the Catholic feeder school, not for religious reasons, but for social, academic, and athletic. While she was in elementary school, I completed my own crisis of faith, and am now an agnostic (culturally Christian, intellectually atheist). This daughter has never clicked with the RC faith.

Tonight she asked me what she has to do to be ex-communicated. She doesn`t like that because she`s gone through the motions, she`s considered `one of them``. I always tell my daughters that they are only half-Catholic, but they say the church doesn`t view it that way. I tell them the church has no say in the matter. (if they did, there would be no gays, unmarried mothers, or .....)

Ex-communicating is out of my area of knowledge. I personally wouldn`t bother, as billions of other ex-Catholics have done, I`m interested in your thoughts .....
__________________
~ Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannize their teachers ~
(attributed to Socrates 470-399 BC)

View My Gallery
nickelini is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 05:40 PM   #1354
Glitter Guru
 
AlysonRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,281
Default

I've heard it called de-baptism, so that's what I searched for, and found this site: Debaptized | Take your Soul back!

From the site:
Quote:
Catholics

The one thing about the Catholic church that can be said is that they are very well organized. They have a buearacracy that rival a large country, and with that they have forms and procedures to accomplish almost anything with in the churches domain. Leaving the church is no exception. Formally, it's called the "Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica" in latin. Translated it mean "a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church". Commonly called a Declaration of Defection. The process is not difficult, but does require some formal steps to be completed.

Thankfully, there is a website dedicated to making this process easy. It's run out of Ireland, but applies to any Catholic. The site is called "Count Me Out" and is located here: Count Me Out - Take a stand for church/state separation

The site has an extensive FAQ and information regarding the act of defection, and I urge anyone contemplating defection from the Catholic Church to visit the site.

Defection Form: http://www.countmeout.ie/samples/Dec...fDefection.pdf
__________________
“My dear, all life is a series of problems which we must try and solve. First one, then the next, and the next, until at last, we die.” --- Dowager Countess Violet Grantham
AlysonRR is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 11:31 PM   #1355
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelini View Post
My 15 year old daughter just asked me a question, and I thought I`d best bring it to the experts here.

Background: I was raised anibaptist, which is sort of protestant. My husband is Italian, so is a Christmas-Easter Catholic. Due to situations, we started our kids out in Catholic school, and I planned to be done after grade 7. However, this daughter decided to go on to the Catholic feeder school, not for religious reasons, but for social, academic, and athletic. While she was in elementary school, I completed my own crisis of faith, and am now an agnostic (culturally Christian, intellectually atheist). This daughter has never clicked with the RC faith.

Tonight she asked me what she has to do to be ex-communicated. She doesn`t like that because she`s gone through the motions, she`s considered `one of them``. I always tell my daughters that they are only half-Catholic, but they say the church doesn`t view it that way. I tell them the church has no say in the matter. (if they did, there would be no gays, unmarried mothers, or .....)

Ex-communicating is out of my area of knowledge. I personally wouldn`t bother, as billions of other ex-Catholics have done, I`m interested in your thoughts .....
Apparently excommunication isn't really what she wants, as that's apparently considered a state of separation from which the church hopes you will repent and get out of.

But the site Alyson mentioned has had to suspend its process because the church isn't taking defections??? Weird.

Alyson, interesting site, I'd never heard of this before. I never even thought of doing anything formal. I guess I just walked away and don't care what anybody thinks.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 11:34 PM   #1356
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesG View Post
What an interesting site. I came here to get help for a paper making project involving waterfast inks and stamps, and then I run into this thread. Quite unexpected. I'm not an atheist, agnostic, believer, or anything. I think when you look through binoculars you see what a binocular can see, when you look through a telescope you see what a telescope can see, when you look through your own eyes you see what your eyes can see. I wouldn't want to give up any one of those visions. Just so with different belief systems, they seem to allow you to see things you wouldn't see without them. Mostly I guess I'm willing to believe in anything that is willing to believe in me. But I try not to have arguments with folks who have a strong opinion one way or the other. After all, they could be right. I'm a little disturbed by folks who claim the US is a christian nation, and then are quick to go to war, and to withhold aid and shelter from immigrants, and denigrate the poor. I was raised Lutheran and don't recall any stories about Christ doing any of these things. As for politics, if Rick Santorum acted like Christ, I'd be very tempted to vote for him. Or Michelle Bachman, for that matter. When Newt Gingrich goes into a church and turns over the tables of the money lenders and throws them out into the street, I'm his guy.
Well said. And welcome.

I did like this statement by Stephen Colbert:

"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that he commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it."
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 11:48 PM   #1357
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
Stampin Wrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 99,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkes View Post
Hi Rachel and thank you for your interest in our country. Yes we do keep our religious beliefs to ourselves. For example if I were to meet someone for the first time, I could ask them what they did for a living or where they lived, but not if they were Christian or what church they went to. That would be considered inappropriate conversation. Even people I know well I wouldn't ask if they were Christian as that is none of my business. Religion is kept out of politics and our educations system so there are no prayers in school (or before sports games) and evolution is taught. No bible quote would be put on a public building and no one cares if you say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. In terms of our population (which is just over 4 million) about half called themselves Christian on our last census but only 15% actually attend church. About a third of us claim no religious affiliation. I guess what it comes down to is that in NZ, there is a country-wide attitude that one’s religion is not considered as important as how one actually behaves, and that means no religion has any political clout. Hope this helps explain my comment. You are right – it is a fascinating subject!
Stephanie
That would be so amazing to have here!!!

I admit I gravitate more toward people who don't mention anything related to religion.
__________________
Kathy Wrose

"Fun must be always." - Tomas Hertl, San Jose Sharks
Stampin Wrose is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 03:09 AM   #1358
Cardstock Collector
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9
Default

I'm sorry to be provocative, but I don't believe that most of you stamping folks, (sorry if I use "us" "them" language, but I'm more a paper maker who's interested in stamping, as opposed to a legitimate stamper) are unbelievers in matters of the spirit. I look in your galleries and see that you are about the business of beauty, and that's a pretty powerful spiritual pursuit. I don't believe you can be involved in it and not touch on some kind of "inner" spirituality.

Unfortunately, people who claim to be about the business of spirit often tend to not act in a very spiritual manner, and so now the language of spirit is all confused with the language of power and control, which seems to be a feature of many organized religions, and so it's difficult to talk about spirit, or see it for what it is.

Kathy, thanks for that comment from Stephen Colbert. It's exactly on point. In what sense are politicians like Rick Santorum trying to advance the agenda that Christ laid out in the Sermon on the Mount? I get very confused by folks who purport to be Christian but don't seem to love people. How do they understand their Christianity? Shouldn't it have something to do with healing people for free, with giving away wine at weddings, with feeding people who are hungry? According to the bible, when the soldiers came for Jesus, Peter leapt to Jesus's defense and cut off a soldier's ear. Jesus wasn't happy about that and told Peter to stop, and replaced the ear of the soldier. So, if you are a Christian, and you are following the teachings of Christ, when you are attacked, what should you do?

Stephanie, thanks for your thoughts on our strange culture here, and for giving us some insight into yours. When I was in high school we had a foreign exchange student from New Zealand. He was a brilliant golfer and seemed to appreciate beer as much as we did. Those being two of my interests at the time, I found him to be quite excellent company.

Nickelini, hopefully the US can keep its problems from travelling beyond the borders, but I'm doubtful. Our manias have a tendency to travel.

But let me ask you folks this. When you're stamping, do you feel some sort of inner movement, growth, some sort of warmth, or like you're about something that doesn't involve just yourself? I know when I make paper I'm in a different place. Time passes without my being aware of it. I feel like I want to share what I've done, but I'm unsure how to do that. My imagination is filled with my paper making experience, and I feel "drawn" to do more. It all has the feel of a communion of sorts with something organic, that is both inside and outside myself. It's a hard experience to talk about. When I see what you folks have done, I get the sense that there's a lot more going on than card making. Some of your cards are so beautiful that to actually use them as cards seems beside the point. They should be set up and displayed in your homes as art, and understood that way.

Well, sorry to digress. I wake up early thinking about these sorts of things and can't get back to sleep. Guess I should get to another thread and find out what anyone knows about waterfast inks.

Greg

Last edited by JulesG; 03-16-2012 at 03:17 AM..
JulesG is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 07:03 AM   #1359
Stazon Splitcoast
 
Illinois Marge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesG View Post
I'm sorry to be provocative, but I don't believe that most of you stamping folks, (sorry if I use "us" "them" language, but I'm more a paper maker who's interested in stamping, as opposed to a legitimate stamper) are unbelievers in matters of the spirit. I look in your galleries and see that you are about the business of beauty, and that's a pretty powerful spiritual pursuit. I don't believe you can be involved in it and not touch on some kind of "inner" spirituality.

Unfortunately, people who claim to be about the business of spirit often tend to not act in a very spiritual manner, and so now the language of spirit is all confused with the language of power and control, which seems to be a feature of many organized religions, and so it's difficult to talk about spirit, or see it for what it is.

Kathy, thanks for that comment from Stephen Colbert. It's exactly on point. In what sense are politicians like Rick Santorum trying to advance the agenda that Christ laid out in the Sermon on the Mount? I get very confused by folks who purport to be Christian but don't seem to love people. How do they understand their Christianity? Shouldn't it have something to do with healing people for free, with giving away wine at weddings, with feeding people who are hungry? According to the bible, when the soldiers came for Jesus, Peter leapt to Jesus's defense and cut off a soldier's ear. Jesus wasn't happy about that and told Peter to stop, and replaced the ear of the soldier. So, if you are a Christian, and you are following the teachings of Christ, when you are attacked, what should you do?

Stephanie, thanks for your thoughts on our strange culture here, and for giving us some insight into yours. When I was in high school we had a foreign exchange student from New Zealand. He was a brilliant golfer and seemed to appreciate beer as much as we did. Those being two of my interests at the time, I found him to be quite excellent company.

Nickelini, hopefully the US can keep its problems from travelling beyond the borders, but I'm doubtful. Our manias have a tendency to travel.

But let me ask you folks this. When you're stamping, do you feel some sort of inner movement, growth, some sort of warmth, or like you're about something that doesn't involve just yourself? I know when I make paper I'm in a different place. Time passes without my being aware of it. I feel like I want to share what I've done, but I'm unsure how to do that. My imagination is filled with my paper making experience, and I feel "drawn" to do more. It all has the feel of a communion of sorts with something organic, that is both inside and outside myself. It's a hard experience to talk about. When I see what you folks have done, I get the sense that there's a lot more going on than card making. Some of your cards are so beautiful that to actually use them as cards seems beside the point. They should be set up and displayed in your homes as art, and understood that way.

Well, sorry to digress. I wake up early thinking about these sorts of things and can't get back to sleep. Guess I should get to another thread and find out what anyone knows about waterfast inks.

Greg
Greg, what a wonderful post.

I am an atheist but I believe strongly in compassion and justice and helping one's fellow man. What bothers me so much is that if you say you are not Christian, it is assumed you have no moral guidepost.

Regarding stamping. I got into stamping after my divorce. It was a painful time and stamping kept my hands and mind busy and off of all my troubles.

But I stayed with stamping because of the creativity. Yes, I do go down to my basement craft room (which I really should call an art studio, we tend to denigrate what we do as just "crafty") and indeed 3 hours later I look at the clock. Usually that means the rice on the stove has scorched and ruined the bottom of my pot.

I also very much love the warm friendships and social nature of stamping. Getting a few of my stamping buddies around my craft table for an afternoon gives me so much joy.

Finally, I love the final product (usually). Sometimes I can't bear to mail them off, but I do. I'll confess that I save the very best and send them to my fellow stampers, knowing they will appreciate them.

In terms of waterfast inks - I usually use StazOn black when watercoloring an image. Either that or heat emboss the outline. That has the added benefit of restricting runs outside the border of the image.
__________________
My Blog Cackling Crafter
Illinois Marge is offline  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:18 PM   #1360
Die Cut Diva
 
parkes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulesG View Post
I look in your galleries and see that you are about the business of beauty, and that's a pretty powerful spiritual pursuit. I don't believe you can be involved in it and not touch on some kind of "inner" spirituality.

But let me ask you folks this. When you're stamping, do you feel some sort of inner movement, growth, some sort of warmth, or like you're about something that doesn't involve just yourself? I know when I make paper I'm in a different place. Time passes without my being aware of it. I feel like I want to share what I've done, but I'm unsure how to do that. My imagination is filled with my paper making experience, and I feel "drawn" to do more. It all has the feel of a communion of sorts with something organic, that is both inside and outside myself. It's a hard experience to talk about. When I see what you folks have done, I get the sense that there's a lot more going on than card making. Some of your cards are so beautiful that to actually use them as cards seems beside the point. They should be set up and displayed in your homes as art, and understood that way.
Greg
Sorry to cut your quote down, Greg, but I was very interested in your comments on spiritiality. I paint (watercolours) as well as make cards and when I am painting I sometimes experience that same feeling of being 'in the flow' where time passes unheeded, and when the painting is finished I am filled with a sense of wonder at what I have done. Unfortunately spiritiality and religion have become so entwined that I am now reluctant to call myself 'spiritial' for the religious connotations it has.
Humans are creative creatures by nature which has nothing to do with religion or what we purport to believe or not believe. Children are atheists until they are taught to believe in a particular religion, but we are all born creative. I guess I see 'creativity' as the ultimate religion, as a way of experiencing the world and sharing that experience.
Stephanie
__________________
To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce
my gallery
parkes is online now  
Tweet this Post! Share on Facebook Reddit!! Pin on Pinterest! Share on Google+!
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off